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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah there's no downside in having belal show up just to get blasted by Moiraine. Killing one of of Forsaken is part of her legend. Could be transposed to balthamel tho easily. The offhand comment about Moiraine rapidly becoming a legend for (as far as anyone knew) killing two forsaken is such fun.
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Mar 19, 2021 02:45
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah there's no downside in having belal show up just to get blasted by Moiraine. Killing one of of Forsaken is part of her legend. Could be transposed to balthamel tho easily. porque no los dos actually gently caress it just have moiraine wreck all of them whether it makes sense story-wise or not
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Mar 19, 2021 02:47
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silvergoose posted:The offhand comment about Moiraine rapidly becoming a legend for (as far as anyone knew) killing two forsaken is such fun. when is this comment again?
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Mar 19, 2021 02:48
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Actually come to think of it Asmodean leads Rand to the Choedan Kal which is pretty important, though you could always just have him stumble over it in Rhuidean regardless. I thought he did just stumble over them in Rhuidean? Like when he and Mat are first there, he sees some statues and goes "huh" and moves on? Yeah. Checked my ebook. The Shadow Rising, ch.24: Rhuidean posted:He was ready to turn around and go back right then, but Rand continued on, barely looking at what lined his way. Once Rand paused, staring down at two figurines that hardly seemed to deserve a place with the other things. Two statuettes maybe a foot tall, a man and a woman, each holding a crystal sphere aloft in one hand. He half-bent as if to touch them, but straightened so quickly it could almost have been Mat’s imagination. Comrade Blyatlov posted:actually gently caress it just have moiraine wreck all of them whether it makes sense story-wise or not
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Mar 19, 2021 02:57
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Data Graham posted:On another note, we're all basically resigned to this series not lasting longer than a season or two, just because it seems so implausible I guess. Like by all the signs the deck is super stacked against it. But if it's such a foregone conclusion, why would the showrunners/network still be bothering? People work until they get cancelled. It might get a bunch of seasons. I never expected The Magicians to have the legs it did.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:00
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Vavrek posted:I thought he did just stumble over them in Rhuidean? Like when he and Mat are first there, he sees some statues and goes "huh" and moves on? Yes but, the climax of TSR is him and Asmodean fighting over the statues. That's where he claims them, I meant him acquiring them could just be him spotting a Key Item and knowing it will be useful later. And for all intents and purposes, Moiraine effectively did kill Lanfear.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:03
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Is it ever discussed where Moiraine does learn Balefire? Is she one of the wonder kids as well?
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Mar 19, 2021 03:13
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No, but I don't think that needed to be explained. She knew a lot of things.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:15
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By the time she uses it on "screen", she's spent years getting ready to aid the Dragon Reborn. Tracking down balefire is a perfectly reasonable step to be taking.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:17
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Vavrek posted:Lanfear: ATTACK AND DETHRONE
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Mar 19, 2021 03:26
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:And for all intents and purposes, Moiraine effectively did kill Lanfear. Moiraine absolutely gets kill credit for Lanfear. Moiraine v. Lanfear is my favorite Forsaken bout. (Well, tied with Mat/Lan v. Demandred.) It's the other three that I'm a little hazy on. She balefires Be'lal, I think? Aginor and Balthemal die so fast that I forget exactly what takes them out, which is why I find them hilarious. Looking at a wiki ... Aginor just drew too much power? (Lame.) Balthamel at least was killed by the Green Man. Gnoman posted:By the time she uses it on "screen", she's spent years getting ready to aid the Dragon Reborn. Tracking down balefire is a perfectly reasonable step to be taking. I got the impression she learned balefire from a book, after studying with Adeleas and Vandene. Nothing firm, though, but she does have a line somewhere about 'being much more dangerous that when we last met', and first uses balefire (I think) against some darkhounds. edit: okay WHAT. I clicked to the wiki's page for The Shadow and it has this picture, captioned "The Dark One attempting to break into the world of man.":  Why does the Dark One have a hand‽ Vavrek fucked around with this message at 03:35 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 03:32
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Yeah, she wastes Be'lal. Aginor you can kind of make a case that he got in a struggle for the Eye with Rand, and tried to grab it all to his demise. I think Moiraine only gets the two.
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Mar 19, 2021 03:37
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:when is this comment again? I'm having a bear of time remembering, as a matter of fact. Pretty sure it was soon after her death, so almost certainly fires of heaven? I'm on a relisten, so I'll get to that and report back when I get there. 
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Mar 19, 2021 03:38
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I vaguely remember it as well, just not where. Anyway thanks to the mentions of Legend of the Seeker I started a rewatch and here are my immediate thoughts. Bruce Spence was absolutely inspired casting. And this show knows exactly what it is. The very first scene is a woman just about falling out of her top as she gets an arrow to the back. It makes no pretences. And it is glorious. Oh my god all the Kiwi actors popping up and just hamming it up to hell and back is fantastic. For everything he did wrong, Goodkind gave us this. Well, the idea for it. Well, some of the character names and general outlines, and a couple of plot beats. And all the hilarious slo-mo sword fighting. IT'S SO loving GOOD. Show Richard is about a billion times more likable than Book Richard too. "And with this sword, you will KILL DARKEN RAHL." *record scratch* "I'm not killing ANYONE. WTF?!?!?!?!' Comrade Blyatlov fucked around with this message at 03:58 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 03:46
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Data Graham posted:On another note, we're all basically resigned to this series not lasting longer than a season or two, just because it seems so implausible I guess. Like by all the signs the deck is super stacked against it. But if it's such a foregone conclusion, why would the showrunners/network still be bothering? Personally, I have no idea how Amazon handles their TV shows and haven't really paid close attention to broadcast television in ... years? decades? I'm struggling to remember a show I watched episode-by-episode as it was released any time in the last ten years. What I'm saying is: I'm basing my assumption that The Wheel of Time will get only a season or two off no actual evidence, just baseless conjecture. As for why they're bothering, I figure it's a gamble. Any show with potential to be a long series is a gamble. The showrunners bother because they're fans of what they are creating and will take whatever chance to keep making it. They're probably both more optimistic than the average goon in this thread, and also more comfortable with risk. The network bothers because there's still a possibility that this pays off big. Especially now, when they're already however many dollars into production, and they've just got (Season One Total)-(however many) dollars left to go. There's a basic ignorance that we don't know the future and barely know the present, so it's hard to be sure the deck is so stacked against The Wheel of Time. There's a different ignorance that I wonder about, which is: how many of the people making financial decisions for Amazon's programming have actually read any part of The Wheel of Time? I feel like part of my pessimism about adapting the series is just: I've read The Wheel of Time. You'd have to be crazy to try adapting it. The scope boggles my mind. I wonder how many of the people involved in the decision to fund the show just read a summary that was like: "The Wheel of Time is an epic fantasy series that was The Big Thing in the 90s and its author helped inspire/promote A Song Of Ice And Fire (GAME OF THRONES), which was regarded at the time as the lesser of the two series. It will play well with exactly the demographic that watched GAME OF THRONES (i.e. everyone, apparently) and due to representation of female characters will be even more popular with women." Like, the actual summary would probably be pages and include character profiles, but it's a big difference from reading the story yourself.
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Mar 19, 2021 04:16
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What you said but more so. I think you can guess a lot from them casting Rosamund Pike -- make this GOT except all the in-Westeros anti-woman stuff is directed at men in WoT. Deemphasize the rigid binary construct and emphasize the fact that women are in charge and how that impacts society and you still have something relatively fresh, especially for TV.
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Mar 19, 2021 04:29
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ninjoatse.cx posted:Is it ever discussed where Moiraine does learn Balefire? Is she one of the wonder kids as well? I assumed she learned it when she was hanging out with the super old, retired sisters at the start of book 2. Or whichever one it was
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Mar 19, 2021 05:25
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Balefire was a bad crutch to lean on. Wish that never showed up.
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Mar 19, 2021 05:38
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It's also interesting to note that according to interviews, Jordan attempted to create a setting where overall the genders were balanced, but since the a handful of institutions (namely the Aes Sedai) were so prominent, people came up to him expressing that they saw it as a matriarchy.Invalid Validation posted:Balefire was a bad crutch to lean on. Wish that never showed up. 14 year old me thought it was super cool until it became waaaay too prominent.
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Mar 19, 2021 05:41
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ninjoatse.cx posted:It's also interesting to note that according to interviews, Jordan attempted to create a setting where overall the genders were balanced, but since the a handful of institutions (namely the Aes Sedai) were so prominent, people came up to him expressing that they saw it as a matriarchy. I kinda felt he needed to ramp up the whole "balefire fucks up reality" aspect of using it. Even at Natrin's Barrow, the consequence was more in how many people Rand killed, not so much how damaging to the Weave it was.
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Mar 19, 2021 05:51
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Vavrek posted:I'm struggling to remember a show I watched episode-by-episode as it was released any time in the last ten years. What I'm saying is: I'm basing my assumption that The Wheel of Time will get only a season or two off no actual evidence, just baseless conjecture. And unlike Game of Thrones it's going to be coming out into competition with a batch other epic fantasy television (The Witcher and Shadow and Bone on Netflix; and the LOTR prequel also on Amazon Prime; and the Game of Thrones spin off HBO is going ahead with for some reason; and the adaptation of N.K. Jemisin's The Hundred Thousand Kingdoms, if that gets off the ground) High Warlord Zog fucked around with this message at 05:57 on Mar 19, 2021 |
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Mar 19, 2021 05:54
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jng2058 posted:I kinda felt he needed to ramp up the whole "balefire fucks up reality" aspect of using it. Even at Natrin's Barrow, the consequence was more in how many people Rand killed, not so much how damaging to the Weave it was. The earlier parts of the series gave me a strong impression that limited use of balefire was actually tolerable, and a very useful tool to have in the kit, and that the problem came from cities being wiped out, weeks of history being undone. It felt like a decent nuclear weapons analogy. I'm sure there's ways you could fit 1 kiloton nuclear warheads into a modern military doctrine that might confer advantages* over not using them, but doing so violates the nuclear taboo. That is a big deal and not to be scoffed at. Sometimes it's useful to agree to ban something completely, even if a minor use might be beneficial, because you can't settle on a clear line between 'minor' and 'major' use. *Advantages in killing people and blowing things up, which are areas of core competency that modern militaries seem to have well covered and need little improvement on, compared to other goals militaries are tasked with, like "achieving strategic objectives." Which is why Rand eventually goes back to it: for him, balefire does confer a qualitative advantage: denying the Dark One the ability to reincarnate servants.
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Mar 19, 2021 06:22
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holy poo poo the loving mapmaker episode this show is about 5 bajillion times better and funnier than sword of truth ever was i've changed my mind, make WOT into a campy, silly mess of a show with people having amazing fun
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Mar 19, 2021 08:07
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buffalo all day posted:What you said but more so. I think you can guess a lot from them casting Rosamund Pike -- make this GOT except all the in-Westeros anti-woman stuff is directed at men in WoT. Deemphasize the rigid binary construct and emphasize the fact that women are in charge and how that impacts society and you still have something relatively fresh, especially for TV. I think people are going to be able to easily overlook the problems surrounding the gender binary nature of saidin and saidar because they'll be too busy enjoying the inversion of the patriarchy, boat loads of racial representation in the cast, and all of the badass women main characters. And also hopefully really good special effects, action, horror etc, etc, etc!
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Mar 19, 2021 15:08
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:I vaguely remember it as well, just not where. They were absolutely loving with Goodkind in that show. Show Richard is barely over 5 feet tall and noticeably a lot, lot shorter than Kahlan where book Richard was the well over 6-foot ubermensch stereotype. I'm not saying this as a bad thing, that whole show is amazing but to see all the poo poo they did to gently caress with the story is amazing.
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Mar 19, 2021 17:37
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jng2058 posted:I kinda felt he needed to ramp up the whole "balefire fucks up reality" aspect of using it. Even at Natrin's Barrow, the consequence was more in how many people Rand killed, not so much how damaging to the Weave it was. I always liked the fan theory that Moiraine was wrong about the Bubbles of Evil coming from the Dark One and they were really caused by the Pattern being screwed up by preceding uses of balefire.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:36
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I like that there's just enough ambiguity that although there are suggestions, there isn't a hard and fast answer.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:41
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WoT has nothing but unreliable narrators all the way down. It's entirely valid to take as your personal canon that TDO=TheCreator and they both are just a random being trapped outside of time and entirely disinterested in our heroes/villians that just gets repeatedly bothered by humans/fades who then interpret their frantic attempts to get off the phone as instructions.
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Mar 19, 2021 19:52
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Anias posted:who then interpret their frantic attempts to get off the phone as instructions. I like that reading. "What is your command, master?" gently caress how did they even get my number, how do i get rid of them "DESTROY EVERYTHING INCLUDING YOURSELF"
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Mar 19, 2021 19:57
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Vavrek posted:I like that reading. WOULD YOU UNLEASH THE BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE, DEMANDRED? Father of Lies = tell them anything they want to believe to get them off the cosmic phone.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:05
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Speaking of. The chapter "something... strange", are the ripples ever explained? I assume it's probably Demandred balefiring a few cities to consolidate his rule, but I don't think it's ever mentioned again.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:14
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Comrade Blyatlov posted:Speaking of. The chapter "something... strange", are the ripples ever explained? I assume it's probably Demandred balefiring a few cities to consolidate his rule, but I don't think it's ever mentioned again. Balefiring is the source of nightmares. Imagine you're being told about something evil Demandred did and decide to vow revenge and fight against him. The very next day, Demandred balefires that snitch so hard you immediately forget everything and you're Demandred's best friend again. If you have no morals, balefire is a strangely effective weapon even without balefiring entire cities.
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Mar 19, 2021 20:33
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VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:WOULD YOU UNLEASH THE BALEFIRE IN MY SERVICE, DEMANDRED? "Have I done well, My Lord?" "THIS IS A CALL ABOUT YOUR CARS EXTENDED WARRANTY"
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Mar 19, 2021 20:52
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Libluini posted:Balefiring is the source of nightmares. Imagine you're being told about something evil Demandred did and decide to vow revenge and fight against him. The very next day, Demandred balefires that snitch so hard you immediately forget everything and you're Demandred's best friend again. If you have no morals, balefire is a strangely effective weapon even without balefiring entire cities. Wasn't the mind bending thing about balefire was that everyone involved still remember what originally happened? So you'd remember the snitch telling you about demandred a day or two after he'd ceased to exist
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Mar 19, 2021 21:03
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ONE YEAR LATER posted:"Have I done well, My Lord?" "The day of Tarmon Gai'don draws near, does it not?" ".... NEW PHONE WHO DIS"
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Mar 19, 2021 21:12
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DarkHorse posted:Wasn't the mind bending thing about balefire was that everyone involved still remember what originally happened? So you'd remember the snitch telling you about demandred a day or two after he'd ceased to exist It depends on how much balefire is used. When Mat and Rand's 2nd wife is revived by balefiring Bad McEvil Dude, they don't remember what happened, for example. So my guess is if that snitch is balefired hard enough, you wouldn't be able to have more than a vague, odd feeling every time you look at Demandred left, if at all
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Mar 19, 2021 21:13
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I think ppl are going the wrong way in regards to thinking about which Forsaken would be cut for time. You can keep all of the them in here, but the stories around them will be cut for time. Like blasting Belal takes a moment, his buildup is a natural way to build up the plot of an episode. TV shows are starved for natural one and done antagonists, and the Forsaken are perfect for that, bubbling up in random eps to exude menace and exchange banter to eat up mins when something that actually needs alot of direction gets delayed. That's what was responsible for alot of the banter scenes in GOT, because that shot is extremely easy and cheap to shoot. What is problematic is how much of the actual protagonists arcs are gonna gave to be sheared off. Alot I'd guess. And there's other stuff, the problematic gender essentials, how much money the production design is gonna get, the background and exp of the exec producers and writers, and how the hell do they make magic interesting on the screen, something that has never really been successfully cracked, tho Dr Strange got alot of the way there
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Mar 20, 2021 14:17
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Data Graham posted:"The day of Tarmon Gai'don draws near, does it not?" https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-WVNRIo_M9Q
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Mar 21, 2021 17:59
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Yeah there's no downside in having belal show up just to get blasted by Moiraine. Killing one of of Forsaken is part of her legend. Could be transposed to balthamel tho easily. Idk I wouldn't want to lose that awesome scene of Someshta bear-hugging Balthamel to death and Loial singing to his oak afterwards "The Blight will not have Treebrother." Libluini posted:It depends on how much balefire is used. When Mat and Rand's 2nd wife is revived by balefiring Bad McEvil Dude, they don't remember what happened, for example. Yeah, on the other hand Asmodean at least suspected he'd died. So there's some evidence/feeling/something someone knowledgeable about balefire can suss out.
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Mar 22, 2021 15:07
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Invalid Validation posted:Balefire was a bad crutch to lean on. Wish that never showed up. I thought this about gateways. They made travel obsolete. It was way over-used. The portal stones and the Ways were really cool though. At least you could only access them from certain locations and they had stuff to them beyond boom you're there. The Last Battle had a couple good uses of gateways though.
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Mar 22, 2021 21:11
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