Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us $3,400 per month for bandwidth bills alone, and since we don't believe in shoving popup ads to our registered users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
«3 »
  • Post
  • Reply
Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



I thought they were pterodactyls.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



6 is good, 9 is good-ish. About half of 7 is good, about 1/3rd of 8 is good. You can skip literally all of book 10 and miss virtually nothing. The plot picked back up with 11, and then he died.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Nah, that's still book 5. In terms of endings, 6 is good, but nowhere near as good as 5.

I think a lot depends on when you started reading the books. I started reading them when book 4 came out, had read through 4 by the time 5 came out, and then had a longish wait for book six. In that context, the ending of six is this incredible world changing cliffhanger, with a years long wait to see how this whole new Black Tower thing is going to play out in book 7.

Now, when you can jump directly into the next books and discover that actually the Black Tower never really gets satisfactorily resolved, it’s not nearly as satisfying. But at the time, holy hell was that an ending.

Kneel or be knelt.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Data Graham posted:

The boob ceremony

There are multiple boob ceremonies you could be referring to.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Well, to start with the idea that there is such a thing as objectively existing, hardcoded “men” and “women “ is kind of bullshit.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



The Aes Sedai politics section was amazing because it let Jordan take one of his major flaws -- the slow pace of the books and massive bloat of the series -- and combine it with one of his strengths -- the realistic appreciation for how rumor and information slowly travel through a pre-modern world -- and combine them in the best way possible. Watching Elaida make stupid decisions based on four-book-old information while everyone around her flits about using teleporting battle-mages and dream-networks of spies that she has no loving idea exist was immensely satisfying.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Comrade Blyatlov posted:

On the other hand if this goes full Legend of the Seeker I'd be ok with that too.

Make Bruce Spence a flashback male channeler who goes mad, that would rule

gently caress, he'd actually be a great Lews Therin.

Bruce Spence appearing as a character only Rand can see and having long conversations no one else can hear.

Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 21:08 on Oct 31, 2019

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Faile in the early books is great; she's a real counter-point to the rest of the crew when she first shows up because she's basically an example of one of the two types of "stock fantasy protagonist" that was popular at the time Jordan was writing and he uses her to gently lampoon the genre. "Mandarb is the horse's name" and all that. She's a great way to underline the bigger world Jordan is building; here's this princess with a mysterious secret on a mission for fame and glory who thinks she's the protagonist of her own novel, and instead she's a minor subplot in a thousand year cycle of tragedy and revenge.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Elayne is literally too dumb and self involved to have PTSD.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

It's, again, the difference between the POV internal narrative of these characters and what they actually do. For an entire readthrough, when you get to any Rand/Mat/Perrin POV, try to completely ignore their internal musing and parse for what's actually happening and what the other characters' reactions to them are.

For Mat it's harder because before he (and everyone) accepts that he's going to be one of the great generals of the age and nothing will change that, he does try to avoid taking *overall* responsibility in a battle.
The same goes for Mat's generalship; he has this reputation as a gambler, a scoundrel, a risk-taker, and a braggart. And then you look at what he actually does and he's a ridiculously conservative meticulous planner who fortifies constantly and at every opportunity, relies on crossbows and heavy artillery, and prefers to flee rather than risk decisive battle so that he can pick his ground. His men love him because he never gambles with their lives, and he always gets paid up front.

Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 13:38 on Nov 23, 2019

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



silvergoose posted:

I can't conjure it in my head. What's the issue?

She enunciates both a's individually, and drawls the last one. It's something like Mess-ah-awna. It sounds like it should have an apostrophe in there somewhere.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



And that was even after she was warned multiple times of the giant hole in her logic and she went ahead and did it anyway.

Next time I reread, I'm going to try to keep a running count how many Andorans would still be alive if Elayne had supported Dyelin instead of vice-versa.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Libluini posted:

I liked the gate cannons

Simple, yet effective!

Those were good. I got really annoyed at the whole “super noble only good at making gates ashaman “ because if you’ve ever read any of his other books that is pure Sanderson and sticks out like a sore thumb on rereads.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Given RJ’s spanking fetish I always assumed it was butt stuff.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Patrat posted:

Actually I do not think the latter part is true? The average strength of Aes Sedai is actually high due to them kicking out everyone below a certain threshold. There are a handful of very strong Kin, concentrated in their age based leadership likely due to powerful channelers living longer, but it is specifically called out later that it takes twice as many Kin as Aes Sedai to open a decent sized gateway for Travelling.

The handful of strong Kin are I guess people who failed one of the weird arbitrary tests but would otherwise have been strong enough to be eagerly snapped up.

Also with training, Aiel Wild Ones in particular specifically limit channeling as much as possible and there are multiple comments about their weaving being 'rough', or them barely knowing any healing or how to form circles at least to start with. I can absolutely believe that at series start Aes Sedai probably are 'on average' the best trained and strongest channeling organisation around on an individual basis, albeit beaten for ability in certain areas like Damane for combat weaves or the sea folk for weather control. Obviously also hugely outnumbered by a lot of groups.

Right. The Aes Sedai were shocked by the strength of many of the Kin not because the Kin were stronger than Aes Sedai, but because many of the Kin who had been kicked out for being too weak in the power to train eventually turned out to be strong enough, after many, many decades of practice, to be as strong as the lowest tier of Aes Sedai.

The Aes Sedai believed that the ability to channel was going out of humanity because A) they set their standards so high in terms of both strength in the power and in youth that they were only pulling in girls whose channeling ability was so latent that they would have channeled anyway without Aes Sedai help and B) the Aes Sedai, due to lack of interest in the outside world, were only patrolling the more "civilized" regions of Randland looking for girls. If they had relaxed their standards and wandered into the rural areas, the Tower would have been several times larger than it was, but the average power level of Aes Sedai probably would have dropped a bit, although not by that much. They weren't culling the ability to Channel out of humanity, but they were culling the ability to find channelers out of the Aes Sedai.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Given that the Red Ajah has the highest proportion of Black Ajah it may have been less of a culling and more of a redistribution to Shayol Ghil.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Lews Theron screamed at him in his head literally the entire time he was around a male channeler or male channeling. Even if he’d wanted to be involved the physical fact of his madness made it functionally impossible.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Data Graham posted:

I mean, Jordan is deliberately playing with people's pattern-recognition tendencies by using all these names that are deliberate references to names we already recognize from other sources, fictional and otherwise. But if your job is to read things aloud for money I'd think you'd be a little more careful with that ol' pattern recognition

On a related note; it's amazing how many people recording fantasy audiobooks don't bother looking up the pronunciation of the word "geas".

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Colonel Cool posted:

I figured some of it was covered by the whole ta'veren thing. I was okay with them making him their leader, but I didn't care for all the awkward bowing and scraping that went along with it.

Naw, it was perfectly in character for Emonds Field. They flipped straight from “We don’t need a Lord” to “gently caress your filthy foreign lord, we got our own Lord and he’s the lordiest Lord that ever lorded. He wears a crown and eats off doilies and poo poo!”

“but I don’t want to eat off doilies “

“gently caress you, sir, You will eat off doilies and love it, your majesty!”

I’ve known tons of country people like that. It’s all very Granny Weatherwax.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Also making arrogance out of humility is super on brand for a certain type of country folk. It’s the same spirit that makes “Bless their heart” into cutting words.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



silvergoose posted:

I guess? But she, unlike the rest of the non-black tower, has (again, because of new spring) known for certainty for almost two decades.



Yes; known and kept absolutely secret for twenty years.

Suian isn't saying that she can't get used to the existence of the Black Ajah, she's saying that she can't get used to the idea of saying it out loud.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



SSJ_naruto_2003 posted:

Still weird to me that (AMoL spoiler) Demandred convinced the entire nation of Shara to just up and join the shadow, fighting alongside trollocs and poo poo..

I like to think that the whole nation of shara was something Ishamael set up during one of his free times though


It makes a kind of sense given what we know of Shara.

In the Jordan books, Shara was depicted as a vast authoritarian monoculture with tight information controls, whose population was purposefully kept almost entirely ignorant of the outside world. Sharans refused to admit that they had ever been invaded by any foreign power, despite the fact that we know that they fought off a Trolloc invasion during the Trolloc Wars and Artur Hawkwing's fleet; the average Sharan may have literally no knowledge of what Trollocs or the Shadow are. The Ayyad channelers who secretly rule Shara live in seclusion and have no contact with the rest of the country except to relay their edicts by pretending to be the voice of the Sh'boan and Sh'botay. A huge segment of Sharan society were slaves, many of them in service to the dual crowns. Assuming Demandred managed to get in and suborn the Ayyad without anyone becoming wise to it, he'd have basically the entire country at his fingertips.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Way way back, I believe to celebrate the publishing of Fires of Heaven, they split the first book in half and printed the first half of the first book as an individual volume that was given away for free with purchase at Borders-affiliated book stores

I’ve still got mine somewhere. I’d swear that the last page has a tag line of “to be continued in the sixth and final book of the Wheel of Time saga”.

I can never find anyone else who has a copy and when you google it you just get the later split printing.

Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 16:29 on Jan 9, 2020

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



I think you need to start with the Prologue because without that, being The Dragon Reborn would come across like this cool fantasy chosen one thing, the way it would be in any other story. The prologue sets things up so that you understand that Rand is the reincarnation of the end of the Beast that’s ends the world.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I was most gutted by Siuan and Bryne. They were just so good for each other

For me it was Rhuarc . Not just because of the character, but also the way it went down and how quick it happened was an absolute hammer blow.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Yeah, the thing is, Graendel is portrayed almost as a comical figure through much of the story -- it's not that she's not evil, but she's constantly contrasted against Forsaken who are much more straightforwardly brutal than she is while she constantly, smugly thinks to herself how much cleverer and more manipulative she is than them, even when it's obvious to the reader that she's not -- which is why the whole Rhuarc thing hits so hard, because when the rubber hits the road, you realize that Graendal is just the loving worst.

It's weird how Ishamael ends up being the most likable Forsaken.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



NinjaDebugger posted:

Yeah, the ending was sent western union. It was never going to be satisfying to me, but the rest of it justified reading. For me, it was way more about the journey than the obvious and mediocre destination.

I thought that the actual mechanism by which Rand won was clever, if delivered in a confusing fashion. Callandor being a trap was this weird Chekhovs hun that existed for ten books while everyone scratched their head.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Soonmot posted:

Yeah but Perrin has said to her, multiple times, that he's not interested in Berelin, and Faile is all, "well he hasn't screamed at me or tried to hit me yet, so he must be lying".

The Faile/Perrin thing is a casualty of the long, slow spiral of the books and Jordan's death. Just like the extent of Rand's madness only really becomes apparent when you start getting outside viewpoints who can comment on his long silences punctuated by bursts of insane non-sequitur caused by arguments with Lews Therin, Faile's behavior mostly only makes sense when viewed from a non-Aiel impartial courtly observer, which we basically never got before Jordan's death.

Faile is a result of training in Saldean courtly behavior, where everyone hides their true intentions behind false masks and the only words worth trusting are the ones spoken in violent, unmistakable passion. Perrin keeps saying that he's uninterested in Berelain (true!) but he also says that she isn't trying to seduce him (false!) and he blindly keeps her close to him no matter how brazen she is in her pursuit of him, as if Berelain is a friend-zoned backup-girlfriend in case this whole "Faile" thing doesn't work out. To make an analogy; Perrin is Dermot Mulrooney, Faile is Cameron Diaz, and Berelain is the completely loving untrustworthy Julia Roberts.

Julia is not your best friend, Dermot. She wants to gently caress you. Stop trying to make her your best man.

So Faile, stung by the apparent contradiction between Perrin's words and deeds and feeling insecure, constantly pushes Perrin to the emotional breaking point, hoping to spark a reaction that she can use to divine his true intentions. But Perrin, being a good Two Rivers lad, thinks that you should never, ever get angry at a woman (because Nynaeve will hit you with a stick), so he hides his anger, which to Faile reads as intentional insincerity (which it technically is), so she pushes him even harder, until eventually he explodes. And Perrin's anger reveals his love, which makes Faile happy, which confuses the poo poo out of Perrin.

And then the books get stuck in a holding pattern and we repeat the cycle half a dozen times.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



EvilTaytoMan posted:

Wasn't there a scene with an Aes Sedai (maybe Cadsuane?) trying to determine if the taint was really gone by channeling saidin through an Ashaman? And she wasn't entirely convinced the taint was gone because she never channeled saidin when the taint was there and saidin feels completely alien to her? I assume that's why no Aes Sedai with Rand ever sent out any messengers about it, because they weren't convinced it worked and had no way of determining it for themselves.

Yeah, Rand told the Ashamen and his pet aes sedai told the other aes sedai but basically nobody believed them. Even a lot of the Ashamen were unsure and they could actually feel it.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



One of Rand’s triggers for his spiral into darkness in the latter books is that he did this one unambiguously good, incredible, world changing thing and no one believes or credits him for it. If he literally can’t be loved then he might as well be feared.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Zore posted:

Moiraine stepping over the walls is definitely implied to be an illusion. Rand notes the door doesn't fully shut until after she's already out, so I always figured she walked out the gate while projecting the big Moiraine image.

I hate that I know this from the rpg but yeah it was specifically an illusion weave. “Spinning the Mosts and Mirrors” or something similar. I think it’s main use later is as a means of public address. It’s probably also technically what Rand and Ishy use when battling in the sky at Falme.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



The WAys were genuinely terrifying. That game had great sound design, for the time.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



“The World of the Wheel of Time”. It was the only reference book published while Jordan was alive. It came out between books 7 and 8 I believe.

The internal illustrations are almost entirely by the same artist who did the original covers for all the American books, which is why fans call it the Big Book of Bad Art. The Jordans must have been the only people on earth who liked that guy.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



The Ashaman arriving at Dumai's Wells is up there. It's such an abrupt gamechanger. Every book after that is different in scope and tone.

Mat's adventures with fireworks is one of my favorite running themes from the early books. I love when Thom loses his loving poo poo when Mat cuts one open.

Old Kentucky Shark fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Mar 10, 2020

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.




Not for a year and a day he don’t.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



I know the audiobook readers made the choice to render it in a way no human being has ever spoken, ever.

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



“WHat if I took a big gulp of Diet Coke and just, like, held it in my mouth. How’s that for an accent?”

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



No the audiobooks are great though. Pro listen

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



Kate Reading and Michael Kramer (also husband and wife, weirdly enough) are absolutely pro tier audiobook narrators, and the decision to go with dual male/female narrators really helps keep a sprawling cast manageable.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Old Kentucky Shark
May 25, 2012

If you think you're gonna get sympathy from the shark, well then, you won't.



awesmoe posted:

What number was the one with the mat/tuon bit where he meets back up with the army? The mat bits of those books were good

That's Book 11, Knife of Dreams, the last of the Jordan books.

I would argue that everything but the Elayne and Faile bits of that bit were good, even the Perrin bits. Unfortunately, there's a lot of Elayne.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply
«3 »