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Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




ConfusedUs posted:

Are there any ebook deals on this series? I own it in physical form, but the books are all so chunky they're uncomfortable to read. My kindle is so small and light that it's spoiled me. I'd gladly pay a few bucks per book to get them in digital form.

However, I can only seem to find them at $10/book-ish. :(

You could bookmark this (also available from other sources if you don't use Kindle) and wait for a sale.

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Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Later on Mat starts seeing "the colors", which serve as a sign that he really needs to meet up with Rand. There's alternate ways to do that, so it could reasonably be axed. For that matter, the entire thing could be handled by a purely outside view - just have one of them shake their head and mutter from time to time.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




He also does something or other on the boat.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




More precisely, Amazon is counting on the many, many Game Of Thrones fans who no longer have a show to be a ready market for something similar.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Data Graham posted:

It could well be my own shallow surface reading of the series, but I'm just saying that I can't be the only one, can I?

The way the whole Cadsuane thing comes off over the course of multiple books, to a person who wants to read it that way, is "shrill harpy trying to rein in the Big Strong Omipotent Man and in the end he proves himself right and her wrong". And him losing Moiraine can equally easily be read as "finally he got rid of that meddling know-it-all and can do what he knows is best".


You have that interaction backwards. It is "stern grandmother trying to beat some sense into the raving egomaniac, who eventually figures out that he was being a complete and utter moron and accepts that she was right all along."

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




About a year, IIRC.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Pleads posted:

It's gotta be longer, Rand loses "months" on the first portal stone to Falme, and there's more weeks/months implied after between books 2 and 3.

I googled and the deep wikis say 2-3 years.

Checking the wiki, the series starts on March 27, 998 and the Third Age ends somewhere halfway through the year 1000, with a ~100-day timeskip from Rand. So you're right, it is 2-3 years. Still an extremely short period of time, and quite a bit of it seems to be brushed over.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Comrade Blyatlov posted:

I swear I remember Fain thinking "maha! The seed of hosed upness I planted in her will make sure shes useless!" But I'm damned if I can remember when that was.
Pre Fain Elaida was doing what she thought was right on some level, after she is pretty much a megalomaniac (who accidentally sets in motion the hunt for the Black)

Lord Of Chaos chapter 28

quote:

He wished he could feel al’Thor’s pain; surely he had caused him pain at least. Pinpricks only so far, but enough pinpricks would drain him dry. The Whitecloaks were set hard against the Dragon Reborn. Fain’s lips peeled back in a sneer. Unlikely Niall would have ever supported al’Thor any more than Elaida would have, but it was best not to take too much for granted with Rand bloody al’Thor. Well, he had brushed them both with what he carried from Aridhol; they might possibly trust their own mothers, but never al’Thor now.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Eragon profited immensely from the Lord Of The Rings movies. It hit all the basic notes for a successor, and the licencing for the movie was probably dirt-cheap.

With those two factors driving marketing, it was perfectly placed to cash in on both the teenage "well, I'm out of Tolkein" and the "Oh, is that the thing my grandkids are into right now?" markets.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Unless I'm mistaken, this refers to a dress where the skirt is slit at regular intervals, and fabric of another color is sewn between the cuts, giving a two-tone look.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




"Egwinna" is one Latinized rendering of the Welsh "Ecgwynn", which was allegedly the name of an early king of England's mother.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Vavrek posted:

So what's this about the Mercedes emblem?

It is mentioned in The Shadow Rising.


quote:

“A grand display of artifacts of Ages long past, of the Age of Legends and Ages before, open to all, even the common folk, three days in the month and on feastdays,” Eurian Romavni had written. He had spoken in glowing terms of the priceless display of cuendillar figures, six of them, in a glass-sided case in the center of the hall, always watched by four of the Panarch’s personal guards when people were allowed in, and had gone on for two pages about the bones of fabulous beasts “never seen alive by the eyes of man.” Egwene could see some of those. On one side of the room was the skeleton of something that looked a little like a bear, if a bear had two front teeth as long as her forearm, and opposite it on the other side were the bones of some slender, four-footed beast with a neck so long the skull was half as high as the ceiling. There were more, spaced down the chamber’s walls, just as fantastic. All of them felt old enough to make the Stone of Tear seem new-built. Ducking under the rope barrier, she walked down the chamber slowly, staring.

A weathered stone figurine of a woman, seemingly unclothed but wrapped in hair that fell to her ankles, was outwardly no different from the others sharing its case, each not much bigger than her hand. But it gave an impression of soft warmth that she recognized. It was an angreal, she was sure; she wondered why the Tower had not managed to get it away from the Panarch. A finely jointed collar and two bracelets of dull black metal, on a stand by themselves, made her shiver; she felt darkness and pain associated with them—old, old pain, and sharp. A silvery thing in another cabinet, like a three-pointed star inside a circle, was made of no substance she knew; it was softer than metal, scratched and gouged, yet even older than any of the ancient bones. From ten paces she could sense pride and vanity.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




I always thought it was interesting that the Aiel were already "a remnant of a remnant" at the start of the series. I don't think anything was done with that unless I missed something, but it could have been an interesting treatment of prophecy.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Submarine Sandpaper posted:

huh i believe it was the above spoiler will survive to the fourth age if the prophecy was fulfilled. there are no more og aiel disregarding the gypsies

I believe there are 6 different prophecies of the dragon and that was in theirs.

The prophecy was "A remnant of a remnant he will save". When the Tinkers left the original Aiel, that group became a remnant. When the modern Aiel split from the Jenn(sp?) Aiel. they became a remnant of that remnant. Meaning that, technically they could have got through the entire Last Battle without losing even a single Aiel and still have the prophecy fulfilled.

As I said, they didn't do anything with it, but I found it interesting in and of itself.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Comrade Blyatlov posted:

Ok I just got up to Mat's letter and it was good

Where is the best place to find the audiobooks?

Audible has them, but they're very expensive if you aren't using the subscription credits.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




UltraRed posted:

Yeah, there was a limitation in traveling where you had to be familiar with where you were traveling to, while skimming was where you were traveling from. Skimming was also more hazy in wher the gate landed. Asha'man dude had a talent that he didn't really need that.


Traveling required intimate familiarity with where you were going from - that's why they had so many "Now we make camp and rest until the channelers know where we are good enough" scenes. Skimming also needed the same familiarities, but to a much weaker degree - you could Skim after about half an hour, while Traveling needed a large part of a day.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




That was a thing, but I don't remember exactly when it cropped up. I think all the necessary pieces (Shorter distances requiring less knowing, going to a place giving you the knowing) were there in Jordan's time, but it probably was Sanderson that put them together.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




There was also a hefty dose of selfish hoarding in play, that had a huge impact on things. There's a few points where Egwene thinks that one or two of the Aes Sedai seem somewhat unsurprised or disgruntled at her new "discovery", suggesting that it wasn't new to them and that they aren't happy everybody knows how to do it now. This also is probably how a lot of stuff got lost in the first place - the few people who knew how to do it kept it to themselves, and died without passing it on.

A similarly sized epic set in the early part of the Third Age would probably be extremely interesting, as long as you didn't get KJA to write it.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




I was referencing the rather poor Dune prequels with Kevin J Anderson.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




I got the impression that Cadsuane was doing the same thing to Rand that she wound up doing to the Forsaken later on - she was being the stern old woman not impressed with his poo poo in order to counter the ego-boosting effect of everyone else around him. For that matter, there was probably a big element of that in how she treated the other Aes Sedai.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Not really. There's a lot of reference to the "old blood", and fears from some of the Aes Sedai that they're culling the Power from humanity, but there's no solid argument (let alone decisive proof) that the two are connected, and some that discredits the notion.


Most importantly, every group of channelers outside of the AS is quite numerous compared to the Tower, and the average strength is higher, even among the Kin - a group comprised primarily of women who were kicked out of (or fled from) the Tower.


Based on the text, the reasons for both of these appear to be quite simple. Other groups swell while the AS dwindle because the AS doesn't actively hunt for recruits - they train girls who seek them out, and will grab girls who don't have the option not to channel whenever they stumble across one, but that's the limit of it. Every other organized group is much less selective. The Seanchan even point out among themselves that they're finding a huge number of new damane, which says a lot about how many the AS miss even in cities, let alone remote villages.

As for strength, every other group makes much heavier use of the Power than the AS (who are trained from the beginning to see saidar as incredibly dangerous and have "do not use this frivolously or unnecessarily" literally beaten into them starting as soon as their training does). Egwene notes that she gains strength very quickly while being trained by the Seanchan, probably because she's being pushed so hard compared to what an ordinary novice would be doing.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Of the early scenes, the one I'm hoping they adapt is Moraine's lecture about Manetheren. That's actually what hooked me on the book the third time I tried to read it.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Part of that was the simple fact that they hadn't dealt with nobility in a very, very long time. So they were getting their notions about how to do so from old books and traveler's tales.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




silvergoose posted:

Okay I've got a question. In The Dragon Reborn, the amyrlin says something to the effect of "I've been denying its existence but I'll have to be willing to say it: black ajah"

But she and moiraine in New spring clearly know, right? Is this a bit of caginess, or retcon, or...?


Going through the book, the closest I can find to such a statement is this:


quote:

The Amyrlin went on as if she had not spoken. “Liandrin[ tried to stuff you headfirst into a weir, and it may well be she left because she learned you were returning, and could unmask her, so I have to believe you aren’t—Black Ajah. I would rather eat scales and entrails,” she muttered, “but I suppose I’ll have to get used to saying that name.”/spoiler]

There's a bit a few paragraphs up where she's told that Liandrin was Black and respnds with "That is known".




So she's not being cagey, it is just that she considers it so vile that she doesn't want to say the name.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




It is also explicit that the Sharans didn't know they were allying with the Shadow until they arrived at the Last Battle - by which time they'd been quite thoroughly brought under Demandred's control.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Pander posted:

I, uh, didn't even remember that happening.

Aviendha killed him after Graendal hit him with Compulsion to worship her.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




At least he didn't die of food poisoning after eating a rotten horse.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




There's also the culture clash - he's from an area where disagreements seem to be settled with stoic silence, while she's from an area that expects family members to regularly be screaming at each other. Given the high percentage of their scenes that are from Perrin's viewpoint, it is clear that a lot of her jealousy is filtered through that barrier.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




If we're getting a Moirane-centric POV for the first season, that listing would actually line up pretty well to the scene's she's in. I could see them doing the excised bits as flashbacks later on.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Data Graham posted:

Like literally just an extra

Don’t even credit him

Go old-school ninja style. Disguise him as a cameraman.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Given how people reacted when they were told, broadcasting it might have caused everyone to decide that the Dragon had already lost his mind completely and all was lost.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




The difference in this case is that ecery last one of those rumors is a heavy distorted version of the truth.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




Colonel Cool posted:

Was any Darkfriend ever redeemed in the entire series? I seem to recall them all being weirdly committed in a way that struck me as kind of unrealistic.

At least two.

Verin (who joined for knowledge, but was fully committed) and Ingtar (who joined out of despair). Both defied the Shadow in the end, and scored victories for the Light.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




VAGENDA OF MANOCIDE posted:

Verin was looking into the Black Ajah and forced to join them when she was caught doing so, afaik, and she was never fully committed to the cause.

She was quite open about being fully involved in their schemes, committing the same sorts of atrocities, and bound by the same oaths. She was hardly less committed than many others we've heard mention of there's mention of people who swore the oaths as a joke only to find themselves fully sworn to the Shadow.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




This is correct, but she was still a Darkfriend. She calls herself one, and she'd know. She was sworn to the Dark One and did evil in his name. Her final strike against the Black Ajah is a redemption, but it doesn't change what she was.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




COOL CORN posted:

So the Seanchan are the de facto descendants of Artur Hawkwing, but I thought he was a beloved ruler? So why are the Seanchan such shitheads

They plunged a sword into the sea, and were absorbed into the culture that they conquered. Combine that with obvious manipulation by Darkfriends (their Prophecies of the Dragon are clearly corrupted, for example), and the hatred that Hawkwing had for Aes Sedai, and it makes a lot of sense.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




KOGAHAZAN!! posted:

I think the absolute pinnacle of this is when they're told Rand has a set of Choedan Kal access keys and he's planning to cleanse Saidin with them :allears:

The funniest part of that is when one of the female Forsaken (Granedal?) uses this as an opportunity to try undermining her male counterparts - because cleansing the taint reduces their dependence on the Dark One.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




The impression I got from the Elayne chapters was that Jordan was trying very hard to have an excuse for Andor falling apart, because leaving it intact would screw up the core idea of forging a broken land together. The initial breaking of the kingdom worked for that, but an orderly succession after the Dragon solved that problem would heal things too well and too soon.

So he had to have a succession crisis, and handled it poorly.

Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




silvergoose posted:

You mean he had to have a succession crisis, and for it to have been handled poorly?

No, I mean that he handled the succession crisis poorly. The core concepts were sound, but he didn't use them well.

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Gnoman
Feb 12, 2014

Come, all you fair and tender maids
Who flourish in your pri-ime
Beware, take care, keep your garden fair
Let Gnoman steal your thy-y-me
Le-et Gnoman steal your thyme




IIRC, the series is still supposed to start off Moirane-centric. That gives a perfect opportunity for her and Lan to run into a couple of scouts that were never mentioned in the book.

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