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Golli
Jan 5, 2013



Bumble He posted:

where good space sims shine though, i mean some important ingredients are:
- the atmosphere
- a sense of wonder
- a good briefing
- the ability to target/scan/distribute energy etc.

what i remember about space-sims is that they would really draw you in and let you in fact chill and forget about other stuff.
you were “in the zone“ but not necessarily because what you saw on screen was so exciting and packed with fast cuts and jump scares, but because you wanted to be in this universe.

and that to me would be an important point: make the player want to be part of this universe.

and to me modern games often cannot deliver this feeling, i do not want a collectathon, i do not want to level up, i do not need a power fantasy, but i want a universe where im like yes i want to be part of this!

but that means that every little aspect of this universe needs to fit, because yeah it needs to be better than real life.

(i dont know where my post is going tbh, i lost track of my thoughs here)

Let me help

"In closing, buy an Idris!"

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lobsterminator
Oct 16, 2012






My dream is to be the low level crew member of someone who is experiencing that escapist dream in an Idris.

Bumble He
Jul 1, 2018



buying an idris is a power fantasy. (meh)
buying a ferrari IRL is a power reality. (kewl)
buying a something awful account is a proper stupidity. (but kewl)

i had a horrible day and im drunk good night!

(not sarcastic, have a good night)

mkvltra
Nov 1, 2020


lobsterminator posted:

My dream is to be the low level crew member of someone who is experiencing that escapist dream in an Idris.

Is Chris going to let me be a hot dog

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Sectopod posted:

RE: Being bad with money



Why yes, I bought a Robertsian space pewpew game for a failed console, ported by Crave Entertainment (known for console shovel ware)
So I was ordering some other Dreamcast stuff and saw this for ~30 funbux and thought "I wonder how this plays on a console?"
And as it turns out... it's pretty okay-ish. The controls for flying and shooting feel pretty good with the DC controller, targeting of specific ships/subsystems is an awkward mess, but the game automatically switches to mission critical targets most of the times when you need it to.
The game itself is nothing new to me, since I own the original PC version (to be precise: I own the German localized version which has some of the cringiest voice acting in PC gaming history)

Pros:
- One of the few DC titles that supports 16:9 aspect ratio out of the box, and the game looks overall quite good
- To safe space, they cut out most of the FMV garbage between missions (clicking on objects in your cabin, walking to the briefing room, etc.), so it's just mission briefing -> fighter selection -> fighter loadout -> short FMV of pilots running to their ship -> pewpew , which streamlines the game experience in a good way
- Some good looking original fighter designs, that managed to avoid the usual Wing Commander trope of jet-fighters-in space

Cons:
- Well, it's still Starlancer, so the story is hot garbage: It's WWII in SPACE, this time even with Pearl Harbor in SPACE, but with the sides mixed up a bit: The Alliance (USA, UK, Germany, France, Italy, Japan) vs the evil Eastern Coalition (Russia, China, Arab States)
- Also still Starlancer: Dogfighting in this game is way too easy, so to introduce some difficulty the game relies way too much on you having to escort friendly capital ships, while waves of enemy bombers drop in from multiple angles to launch their torpedoes simultaneously. Have fun trying to shoot them all down in time while trying to avoid the splash damage from the torps.
- In contrast to the interesting fighter designs, the art team seems to have completely ran out of ideas when it came to capital ship designs. So we ended with a bunch of boxes that are glued together randomly (and the Japanese get a carrier design ripped straight out of Starship Troopers)

Overall, still a better investment than dropping $45 for a SC starter package.

I remember enjoying this up until some impossible mission that was multiple segments, and it was like up to that mission the game was pretty fun and good and I could get by. Then suddenly it's like a wall of difficulty and they throw the entire game of ships at you and I just couldn't win. Either I died or some ship I was supposed to protect single handedly died or something. It was super disappointing because I don't think that mission was super far into the game either.

I had that around the same time as Privateer 2 which, while I loved the FMVs, I hated the actual gameplay segments, and that was what all she wrote for me for space games for a long time

MedicineHut
Feb 25, 2016



Gort posted:

I know someone who worked for a gambling site (bingo, in this case) and it was all women doing this exact thing to their husbands. I don't understand how people can live like that.

Hold on, Gort is not G0rf!

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011



Grimey Drawer

TheAgent posted:

chris roberts has mentioned he'll move 10 million units of SQ42 in the first year its released (lol)

that's what they are banking on 100%
At full game price, that would practically be a miracle of biblical proportions.

Thoatse posted:

100% of the people that have Star Citizen are already owned


peter gabriel posted:



I feel a disturbance in my force
More like a disturbance in your farts, right?

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.



Sectopod posted:

RE: Being bad with money



[…]

Pros:
- One of the few DC titles that supports 16:9 aspect ratio out of the box, and the game looks overall quite good
- To safe space, they cut out most of the FMV garbage between missions (clicking on objects in your cabin, walking to the briefing room, etc.), so it's just mission briefing -> fighter selection -> fighter loadout -> short FMV of pilots running to their ship -> pewpew , which streamlines the game experience in a good way
- Some good looking original fighter designs, that managed to avoid the usual Wing Commander trope of jet-fighters-in space

Biggest pro: like the vast majority of Robertsian games, it wasn't made by Chris Roberts.

The Titanic posted:

I had that around the same time as Privateer 2 which, while I loved the FMVs, I hated the actual gameplay segments, and that was what all she wrote for me for space games for a long time

Same with this. You can easily tell with Privateer 2, though, by the amount of actual creativity that went into those FMVs. I also wouldn't be surprised if there there's some horrid backstory to why so little effort was put into the actual gameplay, where CRobber made sure that any such funds were diverted to some other vanity project of his.

Tippis fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Feb 23, 2021

Sectopod
Aug 24, 2017



Tippis posted:

Biggest pro: like the vast majority of Robertsian games, it wasn't made by Chris Roberts.


Same with this. You can easily tell with Privateer 2, though, by the amount of actual creativity that went into those FMVs. I also wouldn't be surprised if there there's some horrid backstory to why so little effort was put into the actual gameplay, where CRobber made sure that any such funds were diverted to some other vanity project of his.

Well, it was made under Erin, so it still has the Robertsian mandatory bad writing and unskippable ingame cutscenes.

Bill Decker
Jan 5, 2020


Chris may have found his Polish soulmate:
https://www.thegamer.com/techland-report-bleeding-talent-autocratic-management-bad-feedback/

quote:

While the offer to ensure his staff are comfortable is surely welcome for the hundreds of developers at Techland, you might find it difficult to report a concern about your boss when the HR manager is his wife.

Techland’s CEO originally hired his wife, Aleksandra “Ola” Marchewka, to handle interior design and construction for the company’s new offices. Before Techland, she was a freelance legal consultant, according to her LinkedIn profile. After two years as a consultant, she became the only female board member at Techland. In February 2020, she took on the role of acting chief HR officer - according to her public work history, without prior experience in HR. Does Marchewka consider this a conflict of interest?

“No I don’t,” he tells me via email. “My wife is a professional and we have a professional relationship at work.”

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

It's just a pledge bro!


https://i.imgur.com/zYsJFxf.mp4

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.



I don't get why y'all give any mind to this shambling corpsepuppet of a game anymore, but drat if y'all don't have the best animal gifs.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Tippis posted:

Same with this. You can easily tell with Privateer 2, though, by the amount of actual creativity that went into those FMVs. I also wouldn't be surprised if there there's some horrid backstory to why so little effort was put into the actual gameplay, where CRobber made sure that any such funds were diverted to some other vanity project of his.

Privateer 2 was like two different games loosely taped together.

You had this super artsy and intriguing FMV setting with known actors in this strange science fiction world.

Then you had this weird shareware-level space game with graphics that looked pretty lovely even then and ran worse and the world that game lived in seemed very different from the one the FMVs were all set in.

It was pretty junky.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

It's just a pledge bro!


Some Goon posted:

I don't get why y'all give any mind to this shambling corpsepuppet of a game anymore, but drat if y'all don't have the best animal gifs.

https://i.imgur.com/6cbHqCO.mp4

Extra Large Marge
Jan 21, 2004



Fun Shoe

Did they ever fix the bug where your heart explodes if you sprint for too long?

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"


Extra Large Marge posted:

Did they ever fix the bug where your heart explodes if you sprint for too long?

No need. Your legs usually break before that can happen.

Please pledge more

BattleMaster
Aug 14, 2000


Avast!


lmao the most thought anyone at cig put into mining is "uhh shoot rocks I guess"

https://twitter.com/usa0831/status/1363076213611188226

Zazz Razzamatazz
Apr 19, 2016

No hunks allowed, ya dangus

Some Goon posted:

I don't get why y'all give any mind to this shambling corpsepuppet of a game anymore, but drat if y'all don't have the best animal gifs.

Animal gifs are why we're here, friend.

Well that and the

L. Ron Hoover
Nov 9, 2009



response :"Ultimately, it's a game. We don't want mining to be tedious and unfun or only weirdos will want to do it."

who's gonna tell him

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

Every slur offends someone and people will just rebrand other words to slurs / potentially offensive meanings (see also: gay, trap) which will then get banned, eventually at some point the language will run out of words.


at some point the language will run out of words.

Bumble He posted:

where good space sims shine though, i mean some important ingredients are:
- the atmosphere
- a sense of wonder
- a good briefing
- the ability to target/scan/distribute energy etc.

what i remember about space-sims is that they would really draw you in and let you in fact chill and forget about other stuff.
you were “in the zone“ but not necessarily because what you saw on screen was so exciting and packed with fast cuts and jump scares, but because you wanted to be in this universe.

and that to me would be an important point: make the player want to be part of this universe.

and to me modern games often cannot deliver this feeling, i do not want a collectathon, i do not want to level up, i do not need a power fantasy, but i want a universe where im like yes i want to be part of this!

but that means that every little aspect of this universe needs to fit, because yeah it needs to be better than real life.

(i dont know where my post is going tbh, i lost track of my thoughs here)

When I read your post, all I could think of was:

Elite Dangerous
Kerbal Space Project
NMS (even over my gripes with it I can't deny it's a good enough game right now)

...and probably like ten other space games I haven't played would fit there.

Except for Star Citizen.

Star Citizen is anything but that.

marumaru
May 20, 2013





The version that Star Citizen wish to do, is Dynamic Server Meshing, which according to my friend, is beyond insane. It's actually never been done before, but has apparently, always been a theorised system. But no ones been enough of a 'madman' to do it. .... Let me break it down how he broke it down for me. ....

Pros: Only one calculation is needed speeding things up. This allows as many layers of servers needed. So if 50 people are in one spot, 50 servers can be 'spun up' so each person has their own server while occuping the same space, meaning ZERO latency and ZERO lag. Limit to FPS suddenly is only decided by how many servers you can 'spin up', and Amazon server farm is the largest server farm in the world... ergo, CIG can spin up as many as they need. Allowing them to run 5000+player battles by just spinning up 500 servers that now run like there's only 10 on each. Limit of the game becomes limited instead, less by server issues, and instead by the client. So how much can your GPU handle onscreen at once before your tower catches fire.

Cons: Zero. System is a theoretical perfect system. Only problem is that the concept of layering a server ontop of each other like this is a coding nightmare of beyond godly preportions which is the only reason no ones bothered to actually try it until now.

Every other game goes by the 'halfmeasure'. I beleive (though I might be wrong) that DU works on a system thats a gridded server system. Where one server can be broken down into many different grids of servers, which helps, but doesnt stop it from lagging when you have a lot of people in a singular tight space. I know eve using standard static, which is why they drop to 2fps during massive battles (they call this time dilation, its really just them controlling the lag).

But Chris Roberts doesnt do half measures... so of COURSE he'd go for the 'best' but 'hardest' way.

Sarsapariller
Aug 14, 2015

Occasional vampire queen


marumaru posted:

Pros: Only one calculation is needed speeding things up. This allows as many layers of servers needed. So if 50 people are in one spot, 50 servers can be 'spun up' so each person has their own server while occuping the same space, meaning ZERO latency and ZERO lag. Limit to FPS suddenly is only decided by how many servers you can 'spin up', and Amazon server farm is the largest server farm in the world... ergo, CIG can spin up as many as they need. Allowing them to run 5000+player battles by just spinning up 500 servers that now run like there's only 10 on each. Limit of the game becomes limited instead, less by server issues, and instead by the client. So how much can your GPU handle onscreen at once before your tower catches fire.

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

hey kid how's the cake


ah yes the singular calculation: makeGameFaster 0

Awesome!
Oct 17, 2008

Ready for adventure!




imagine four servers stacked on the edge of a cliff

no_recall
Aug 17, 2015



Lipstick Apathy


Games > self.storecitizer : I am a masochist.

Sarsapariller
Aug 14, 2015

Occasional vampire queen


Why hasn't every other game thought of the "One server per player" solution? In fact we could just take the servers offline and cut out latency entirely! Imagine opening up Skyrim and it's just a whole world ready for you to explore, instanced right there on your PC!

Chris Roberts has saved PC gaming again, all he has to do is make 5000 copies of Skyrim that all talk to each other in perfect synchronicity.

Flared Basic Bitch
Feb 22, 2005

Invading your personal space since 1968.


marumaru posted:

The version that Star Citizen wish to do, is Dynamic Server Meshing, which according to my friend, is beyond insane. It's actually never been done before, but has apparently, always been a theorised system. But no ones been enough of a 'madman' to do it. .... Let me break it down how he broke it down for me. ....

Pros: Only one calculation is needed speeding things up. This allows as many layers of servers needed. So if 50 people are in one spot, 50 servers can be 'spun up' so each person has their own server while occuping the same space, meaning ZERO latency and ZERO lag. Limit to FPS suddenly is only decided by how many servers you can 'spin up', and Amazon server farm is the largest server farm in the world... ergo, CIG can spin up as many as they need. Allowing them to run 5000+player battles by just spinning up 500 servers that now run like there's only 10 on each. Limit of the game becomes limited instead, less by server issues, and instead by the client. So how much can your GPU handle onscreen at once before your tower catches fire.

Cons: Zero. System is a theoretical perfect system. Only problem is that the concept of layering a server ontop of each other like this is a coding nightmare of beyond godly preportions which is the only reason no ones bothered to actually try it until now.

Every other game goes by the 'halfmeasure'. I beleive (though I might be wrong) that DU works on a system thats a gridded server system. Where one server can be broken down into many different grids of servers, which helps, but doesnt stop it from lagging when you have a lot of people in a singular tight space. I know eve using standard static, which is why they drop to 2fps during massive battles (they call this time dilation, its really just them controlling the lag).

But Chris Roberts doesnt do half measures... so of COURSE he'd go for the 'best' but 'hardest' way.

Thanks for ruining my doctoral thesis, jerk.

UnknownTarget
Sep 5, 2019



I'm confused...won't you still hit lag issues with every server sending data to the players and to the other servers?

I thought it was lag, not server hardware, that was the limiting factor?

Popete
Oct 6, 2009

This will make sure you don't suggest to the KDz
That he should grow greens instead of crushing on MCs



Grimey Drawer

UnknownTarget posted:

I'm confused...won't you still hit lag issues with every server sending data to the players and to the other servers?

I thought it was lag, not server hardware, that was the limiting factor?

Congratulations you understand network latency better than Chris Roberts.

no_recall
Aug 17, 2015



Lipstick Apathy

UnknownTarget posted:

I'm confused...won't you still hit lag issues with every server sending data to the players and to the other servers?

I thought it was lag, not server hardware, that was the limiting factor?

Sorry friend, server meshing is the holy grail of game networking. Its P2P on the server level. You won't understand negative latency, where things are precalculated before they happen.

Sarsapariller
Aug 14, 2015

Occasional vampire queen


UnknownTarget posted:

I'm confused...won't you still hit lag issues with every server sending data to the players and to the other servers?

I thought it was lag, not server hardware, that was the limiting factor?

Everyone knows that servers are built with the best copper pipes, which makes them practically superconducting and eliminates all latency.

Side note, wait until Citizens learn that half of modern latency reduction techniques are just clients accurately predicting when the server will read your actions correctly. Now try to imagine 500 clients connected to 500 individual servers that all have to cross-update each other on their player's behavior, and the client has to predict that behavior in order to reduce jitter. Hahahahahaha

CeeJee
Dec 4, 2001


Oven Wrangler

UnknownTarget posted:

I'm confused...won't you still hit lag issues with every server sending data to the players and to the other servers?

I thought it was lag, not server hardware, that was the limiting factor?

Actually it was the greedy publishers who kept the programmers shackled and prevented them from fixing lag. Now that, thanks to you buying that Idris, the publisher has been replaced by visionary Christ Roberts the pipelines are wide open and any day now the Dynamic Server Meshing will be released to astound the world and have everyone begging to licence the StarEngine.

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

Every slur offends someone and people will just rebrand other words to slurs / potentially offensive meanings (see also: gay, trap) which will then get banned, eventually at some point the language will run out of words.


at some point the language will run out of words.

I love how these people know nothing about computing. "Single calculation that is perfect" they say.

I get reminded of how you learn multiplying in grade school and throughout high school you do it all the time, right. It's pretty fast, right, after all, it's a single calculation, 20 times 35 is seven hundred, easy!

Then you come to programming uni and first you realize, uh-oh, it's not a single calculation, because you have to multiply every digit with every digit, taking it to quadratic algorithm - and for nine hundred digits multiplying nine hundred digits number it can take long. AND THEN you learn there were clever people that thought up THIS, which calculates it in logarithmic time.

After that, you start questioning everything. Everything has a possibility to get better.

If you don't have Chris Roberts at the wheel, that is.

Flannelette
Jan 16, 2010




marumaru posted:

just spinning up 500 servers

Cons: Zero.

Chronojam
Feb 20, 2006

This is me on vacation in Amsterdam
Never be afraid of being yourself!




It is actually a never ending stream of cons, just con after con, but spending money is a virtue as far as the marks are concerned.

Server Side Objective Con Streaming

Sanya Juutilainen
Jun 19, 2019

Every slur offends someone and people will just rebrand other words to slurs / potentially offensive meanings (see also: gay, trap) which will then get banned, eventually at some point the language will run out of words.


at some point the language will run out of words.


"It's someone else's problem"

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



If there is someone that can finally solve P versus NP, Roberts is the man to do it.

L. Ron Hoover
Nov 9, 2009


Ummm just look at the last cig update that actually addressed server meshing. Maybe the only one I've seen in months. The lead engineer was basically like, uhh we tried to get two servers to talk to each other and that was a horrible failure. And uh yeah we're totally working on it. Also none of the code in the game assumes more than one server so we have to rewrite like massive amounts of code. And uh, he shakes his head and looks despaired. That's really all you need to know after a decade of development. Also server meshing at 52+1 weeks on the roadmap. And plenty of the community basically say, this is the bottleneck for all real content. And none of them know what it even is or how it would work in any way. It's pretty amazing that the crux of the entire project basically rests on this magic solution.

It's like the lady from Theranos saying, well all we gotta do is introduce blood meshing where we get 50 people's blood to talk to each other and that will allow us to do blood tests with very little blood. How? Well... just like the apollo program!!

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011



Grimey Drawer

https://i.imgur.com/xavvHFm.mp4

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DigitalPenny
Sep 3, 2018



Sarsapariller posted:

Why hasn't every other game thought of the "One server per player" solution? In fact we could just take the servers offline and cut out latency entirely! Imagine opening up Skyrim and it's just a whole world ready for you to explore, instanced right there on your PC!

Chris Roberts has saved PC gaming again, all he has to do is make 5000 copies of Skyrim that all talk to each other in perfect synchronicity.

Yea but when I try copy a big formula down 10k rows in excel it hangs on my PC, so if I could copy the formula off to 10k severs and spin them up and have them send the answer back and fill in my 10k rows it would surely give me the correct answer but 100 times faster, this is the magic of the cloud right ?

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