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Jonny Shiloh
Mar 7, 2019
You 'orrible little man


Colostomy Bag posted:

Interesting that Uncle Derek made it past their AI enhanced filter.

AKA some kid on day release from college manually going through ship_names.xls who has no idea who Derek Smart is, nor cares.

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BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Jack-Off Lantern posted:

War wouldn't happen. Like the fact that you can nudge an asteroid and create a planet killer makes all war in these low fi settings stupid.

In 40k, they've all got explicit ideological, biological, theological, or economic reasons to want to capture most planets. Not that they don't crack some instead, but they're generally going to duke it out for system control, then move on to slapfighting down the gravity well.

They'd be unable to sell their games systems otherwise

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"


Spectrum dug up some fun old SOCS claims from 2019


What Did CIG Say SOCS Would Do?

Improve server FPS:

Todd Pappy: "With our server frame rates the way that they currently run it's basically seven to ten frames. When we get it running at 30 frames a second on the server you'll see a major benefit"




Reduce AI bugginess and desync:

Chris Roberts: "If you get the server frame rate, which our target is 30 frames per second, up then the experience on the client-side is better and just a lot of that weird AI behavior that people see, or doors not opening when they should open, isn't actually necessary a bug, it's just that the server's gummed up as so far behind it it's not telling the client in time to do stuff."


End asset limitations:

Tony Z: "it's going to break us free from these limitations in terms of how many locations and how much content we can put into the solar system". "...now we can get all these new locations without impacting the frame rate at all."


Increase player counts:

Chris Roberts: "Will this allow us to increase the player count in the short term?"

Tony Z: "In theory it definitely should..." "Whether you'd be able to... push it out with 3.8 with a player count or whether some of that stuff would have to move to 3.9, that part we don't yet know, but that's definitely where we're headed."

Sean Tracy "...conceptually you could end up in a state that we've got, you know, let's say 200 players that are in every single location, every single object container, and it's actually all loaded in the end. But it really depends on how the players are playing, but we will find a sweet spot in here, because there is an edge where we go too far that it's actually not helping you so much, but I think even in that case we're still gonna be better"




What Did SOCS Actually Do?

Essentially none of the above. Server FPS is still low and out of sync, AI is still comically bad, player count is the same (and occasionally lower for special events). It did allow them to put some more assets into the PU. Before hitting a cap, and taking stuff out again.

***

Bonus Chris quote from March 2019:

quote:

If we were doing a sort of game mode, like Arena Commander or Star Marine, we could probably have more than a hundred players.

ToW

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Server fps == tick rate?

marumaru
May 20, 2013





socs tier 0 though
checkmate fudsters

socs tier 4 will actively DDOS other games and star citizen will have player counts in the 6 digits per server (along with server meshing)

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Jonny Shiloh posted:

AKA some kid on day release from college manually going through ship_names.xls who has no idea who Derek Smart is, nor cares.

His credentials were being a bartender.

AbstractNapper
Jun 5, 2011

I can help

You fudsters never seem to mention the hordes of game companies queueing up to use Crobbler EngineTM

PC Gaming was *literally* saved, and no one seems to credit poor ol' Crobbz.

Pixelate
Jan 6, 2018

"You win by having fun"


BrotherJayne posted:

Server fps == tick rate?

Seems to be

NumptyScrub
Aug 22, 2004

damn it I think the mirrors broken >˙.(

Dwesa posted:

This deserves more views, but I don't understand why are people playing a game that frustrates them.

Sunk cost fallacy, in most cases. If you paid $300+ for a space game then you are going to try and wring $300 worth of "value" from it, and fun drops out of the equation

Also some people just unwittingly sabotage themselves, I have a friend who actively pursues the "most efficient" and thus most boring gameplay (stuff like the Destiny loot cave, grinding the same Borderlands boss endlessly etc.). They simultaneously complain bitterly about how boring the gameplay is. Pointing out the logic to them simpy gets "why would I play suboptimally when this maximises my gains per unit time?"

My conclusion is that some people just have a different definition of "fun" than I do :/

Fidelitious
Apr 17, 2018

MY BIRTH CRY WILL BE THE SOUND OF EVERY WALLET ON THIS PLANET OPENING IN UNISON.


The only WH40k I've read is the Horus Heresy line of books which appears to be infinite in number.

Seems a bit silly to get upset about big dumb space fantasy. It's entertaining to read just like cowboy pulp fiction.
I'm not exactly looking for top tier writing if I'm reaching for Warhammer y'know.

Beet Wagon
Oct 19, 2015







Dwesa posted:

Backers are sharing some ship names already:


When someone asked who is Derek Smart

Mostly correct, except for fact that CR hasn't delivered any space game in more than two decades

That entire thread reads like it was just transported from the good old days of constant Forums Warfare in like 2016 or whatever. Genuinely don't know how they have the energy to work themselves up over this poo poo still lmao

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


colonelwest posted:

By posting even a few sentences about the mechanics of Star Citizen’s lore, you’ve already put more original thought into it than Chris. He’s a cultural and artistic vulture, only capable of picking out isolated fragments of other sci-fi franchises that he likes for their aesthetic value, then stripping them of all context and meaning before shoving them into his game.

Pretty sure most ideas with CR start with the phrase:

"Like in the movie..."

Tippis
Mar 21, 2008

It's yet another day in the wasteland.




Clive Johnson CIG@cjohnson posted:

No, the servers run the simulation as fast as they can up to a maximum of 30 frames per second. The packet rate sent by a server is determined by its frame rate, and how many entities are updating and have new data to send to the clients. Neither the frame rate of a client or the rate at which it sends packets to its server have any influence on this.
Uncontrolled variable tick rate. That should work wonders for the stability, predictability, and being able to reliably stay in sync with clients.

What were the issues SC was battling again…?

BrotherJayne
Nov 27, 2019

Cum Catapultae Proscriptae Erunt Tum Soli Proscripti Catapultas Habebunt


Fidelitious posted:

The only WH40k I've read is the Horus Heresy line of books which appears to be infinite in number.

Seems a bit silly to get upset about big dumb space fantasy. It's entertaining to read just like cowboy pulp fiction.
I'm not exactly looking for top tier writing if I'm reaching for Warhammer y'know.

Give Eisenhorn and Ravenor a go, I bet of you

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Dwesa posted:

This deserves more views, but I don't understand why are people playing a game that frustrates them. Isn't the point of playing games having a good time? In roguelikes or Dark Souls, you're at least trying to solve a problem until you beat the boss or whatever, but in SC they're just trying to avoid bugs.

I have a feeling the cost of entrance is forcing people to "enjoy" the experience regardless of how it actually is.

When you spend >$100 on some early access game, you're going to view it differently than if it was like 0.99. You're also going to want the dev team to actually finish it, so you got to coddle them as well.

And I imagine this feeling only increases with the amount of money you plunk into it.

Suffering from buyers remorse is not an option!

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Beet Wagon posted:

That entire thread reads like it was just transported from the good old days of constant Forums Warfare in like 2016 or whatever. Genuinely don't know how they have the energy to work themselves up over this poo poo still lmao

Derek smart being the evil boogey man they had to defeat so that Star Citizen could be great kept CIG going for like 5 years and helped to develop this super inclusive group of defenders and such.

It was a necessary era or honestly we might not have Star Citizen today because the gamers would have been focused on the actual game instead of protecting it from evil.

It helped to bring in concepts like "spite pledges" and also joy for how much money a multinational company employing hundreds of people makes from pledges, like it's some kind of personal victory. In a way they managed to get some of that whole Apple kind of must-buy it vibe going on.

Now though they are mostly good and every 8 months CR wiggles a little when people start getting antsy again and all is good.

I'm not sure how people still want to buy so much stuff and how they rake in all this money, it doesn't make logical sense to me, but it is what it is and that's what keeps it all rolling down the hill now.

The Titanic
Sep 15, 2016

Unsinkable


Tippis posted:

Uncontrolled variable tick rate. That should work wonders for the stability, predictability, and being able to reliably stay in sync with clients.

What were the issues SC was battling again…?

These concepts are part of why I am so excited for them to start working on their server meshing technology. I can't wait for all these things to just magically gel together because CR doesn't understand limitations of modern computing and how network architecture works.

At this point I feel the best they may get to is loading between servers, and you noticeably switch from one to another, or they do it during some kind of jump animation or something like warp speed you can't drop from until your on the new server and connected to it.

They might even get multiple servers for one region, and the fun of losing your teammates as you travel between them. But that's so far in the future for CIG we'll need to wait at least another 5 years or so before the basics are in place for something like that, if ever.

Sarsapariller
Aug 14, 2015

Occasional vampire queen



And Games Workshop really wants to deliver that message about how bad the Imperium is- they've written approximately 700 books about it and also sold a dozen different lines of toys based on it!

Me, fascistly: "War is bad. Now that that's out of the way, here is novel #32 in my ongoing series about why Cobra Commander was secretly a great antihero and he cried manly tears every time he shot up a civilian populace in Vietnam and that's how he got so misguided that he wants to fire a superlaser at the president or whatever"

Sarsapariller fucked around with this message at 15:34 on Mar 2, 2021

Muscle Tracer
Feb 23, 2007

Medals only weigh
one down.


Dwesa posted:



Anyway, this applies to almost any setting or IP. And I guess this is how 's mind operates when he steals from other settings.

I think the reason this goes over so many heads is that in GW, there's no contrast, every faction is essentially the same genocidal crusaders. Even the loving Tau had to become mind-controlling slavers or whatever. When the entire universe is that way, it's easy to read a "hard times need hard men" kind of attitude into it. To make it seem not just bad but unnecessary, there really needs a "here is a better alternative" somewhere, even if it's just a tiny fraction of the story. When the brightest thing in your setting is... the Orks, who genuine enjoy committing genocide? it's understandable that people would take that message out of it.

Dwesa
Jul 19, 2016

they hummed of mystery


Do any of these people realize that The Great Gatsby was about disillusionment? (I know it's referencing trailer, but trailer was also clueless}






Sarsapariller posted:

And Games Workshop really wants to deliver that message about how bad the Imperium is- they've written approximately 700 books about it and also sold a dozen different lines of toys based on it!

Me, fascistly: "War is bad. Now that that's out of the way, here is novel #32 in my ongoing series about why Cobra Commander was secretly a great antihero and he cried manly tears every time he shot up a civilian populace in Vietnam and that's how he got so misguided that he wants to fire a superlaser at the president or whatever"
Yeah, whatever was the original intent, I guess profits are always more important.

Muscle Tracer posted:

I think the reason this goes over so many heads is that in GW, there's no contrast, every faction is essentially the same genocidal crusaders. Even the loving Tau had to become mind-controlling slavers or whatever. When the entire universe is that way, it's easy to read a "hard times need hard men" kind of attitude into it. To make it seem not just bad but unnecessary, there really needs a "here is a better alternative" somewhere, even if it's just a tiny fraction of the story. When the brightest thing in your setting is... the Orks, who genuine enjoy committing genocide? it's understandable that people would take that message out of it.
I don't know, I assumed it's part of a genre that everything is poo poo. But I think they didn't think too much about how their setting or stories might affect beliefs of their customers.

Postorder Trollet89
Jan 12, 2008
Sweden doesn't do religion. But if they did, it would probably be the best religion in the world.

Sarsapariller posted:

And Games Workshop really wants to deliver that message about how bad the Imperium is- they've written approximately 700 books about it and also sold a dozen different lines of toys based on it!

Me, fascistly: "War is bad. Now that that's out of the way, here is novel #32 in my ongoing series about why Cobra Commander was secretly a great antihero and he cried manly tears every time he shot up a civilian populace in Vietnam and that's how he got so misguided that he wants to fire a superlaser at the president or whatever"

That's GI Joe's job and you loving know it.

Now I'm not a black library connoisseur by any means but as I recall most of the popular 40k's written stuff is either overtly dystopic or satirical (except space marine poo poo, stay away from that). Still, that has 10 times the potential of Star Citizen which is just car commercial references and bad WWII in space stuff. All of it is just the brainchild of a man who thought that Star Wars was about X-wings and TIE-fighters and want you to pay for the previlage of him working in hollywood again.


Muscle Tracer posted:

I think the reason this goes over so many heads is that in GW, there's no contrast, every faction is essentially the same genocidal crusaders. Even the loving Tau had to become mind-controlling slavers or whatever. When the entire universe is that way, it's easy to read a "hard times need hard men" kind of attitude into it. To make it seem not just bad but unnecessary, there really needs a "here is a better alternative" somewhere, even if it's just a tiny fraction of the story. When the brightest thing in your setting is... the Orks, who genuine enjoy committing genocide? it's understandable that people would take that message out of it.

We'll see how the post Guilliman stuff turns out but I agree. If the Eldar werent Irish elf nazis or some human separatist faction exeisted (other than chaos) to add contrast it would be more clear.

Postorder Trollet89 fucked around with this message at 16:11 on Mar 2, 2021

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Angry_Ed
Mar 30, 2010




Grimey Drawer

Postorder Trollet89 posted:

That's GI Joe's job and you loving know it.

Now I'm not a black library connoisseur by any means but as I recall most of the popular 40k's written stuff is either overtly dystopic or satirical (except space marine poo poo, stay away from that). Still, that has 10 times the potential of Star Citizen which is just car commercial references and bad WWII in space stuff. All of it is just the brainchild of a man who thought that Star Wars was about X-wings and TIE-fighters and want you to pay for the previlage of him working in hollywood again.


We'll see how the post Guilliman stuff turns out but I agree. If the Eldar werent Irish elf nazis or some human separatist faction exeisted (other than chaos) to add contrast it would be more clear.

There is another Human Separatist faction but in addition to being very minor, they are also fascists, complete with Roman Legionnaire trappings.

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