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The only time I can remember WWE implying that two dudes in the same bed wasn't icky was when Billy Gunn, Torrie Wilson, Jamie Noble, and Nidia had an orgy that somehow resolved their feud. They didn't imply that Gunn and Noble got it on directly, but they definitely implied that everyone was involved. There was even a scene of the aftermath where they were all laying under the covers together. Red posted:2. Did no one find it odd that bleeding during matches might get on fans? Looking back at Bulldog/Bret from December 95's IYH, Bret's blood gets on the fans, who just casually wipe it off. That's loving disgusting. I don't recall seeing this happen much, but was this ever a big deal in the press/from fans/etc.? I almost can't believe how recently this happened, but Lucha Underground did this a bunch of times. Their deathmatches would always spill out into the bleachers and get all over anyone surrounding them.
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Jun 5, 2020 05:11
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So I was 6-8 years old when Rick Martel was doing his model gimmick. Was he supposed to be gay at all? Or just an arrogant heel? The character was great when I was a kid and I hated him so drat much. But I didn’t know what gay was at that age so it might have gone over my head.
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Jun 5, 2020 05:21
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sticklefifer posted:... when Billy Gunn, Torrie Wilson, Jamie Noble, and Nidia had an orgy that somehow resolved their feud. They didn't imply that Gunn and Noble got it on directly, but they definitely implied that everyone was involved. There was even a scene of the aftermath where they were all laying under the covers together. Can you give more more info on that? From the people involved it sounds like it was from the Ruthless Aggression era, but that also sounds like a pure Russo angle. Mostly is just want to know why?
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Jun 5, 2020 05:35
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The American Dream posted:So I was 6-8 years old when Rick Martel was doing his model gimmick. Was he supposed to be gay at all? Or just an arrogant heel? My take at the time was that he was just an arrogant effeminate guy. He had a French accent, a giant cartoonish perfume spray gun (like an Acme bug spray thing), and a really catchy harp and sax theme. Most of his feuds were based around him spraying people or insulting them. He feuded with Tatanka over stealing his feathers, I guess. He and Shawn Michaels feuded over Sherri Martel, and had a NOT IN THE FACE NOT IN THE FACE match, if I remember right. The match was whatever, but it was hilarious. I don't remember anything with him ever being implied; his promo videos were usually just fake perfume commercials, and his taunts were usually just doing jumping jacks during matches. Martel was absolutely fantastic in the role (my opinion), and it was a drastic change from pretty boy face in AWA (and as a part of Strike Force!), both of which I also loved. I think the problem was they just had too many goddamn people, and only a handful got consistent angles.
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Jun 5, 2020 05:44
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Yeah, he certainly didn't get treated like Lanny Poffo or anything. Martel was just a smug douchebag
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Jun 5, 2020 05:57
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That 'no hitting the face' match was better because of the stipulation, at least until the Sherri shenanigans happened.
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Jun 5, 2020 06:04
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Rick Martel seemed like the perfect guy to have on the house show tours. Because beyond being a good wrestler, you could put him against the top face on the show. Saving the top heel for the number 2 match. You can get a double main event out of it. Like people would have been frothing for Hogan, warrior or Piper to destroy him. And they can put mr perfect, macho king, dibiasse on against a mid card face and win to keep their heat.
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Jun 5, 2020 06:14
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Maigius posted:Can you give more more info on that? From the people involved it sounds like it was from the Ruthless Aggression era, but that also sounds like a pure Russo angle. Mostly is just want to know why? This was in like 2004, and probably involved Jamie Noble's trailer park millionaire gimmick that also involved Nidia going blind for some reason. Basically the match stip was that whoever won between Billy and Jamie got a night with Torrie, but it eventually worked out that Whoops! All Orgy!
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Jun 5, 2020 06:20
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This actually overlaps timeline-wise with the Billy & Chuck and HLA and everything else. I honestly don't know what stereotype this was meant to play into, but Jamie Noble was a redneck from a trailer park who wanted to be the cruiserweight champion so he'd make more money and not have to live in a trailer park. This part is honestly the most reasonable justification for a weird cartoon character to want to start wrestling matches I've ever heard. However, the way he was introduced was that Nidia (who had recently won the first season of Tough Enough) was the Hurricane's angry ex-girlfriend (or as Helms called her, "a messed up Hurri-bitch" and also a slut) who was pseudo-stalking him, but was really doing it to trick him into getting ambushed by her NEW boyfriend, the aformentioned Jamie Noble. The Hurricane/Noble angle had Nidia doing a lot of "crazy ex-girlfriend" stuff like licking Hurricane's face and wearing Hurricane's mask as underwear and stuff, which in addition to regular heel tactics eventually helps Noble win the cruiserweight title off of the Hurricane. Meanwhile the writers seem to forget the initial concept and just turn Noble and Nidia into evil, aggressive swingers. Nidia keeps on making out/attempting to make out with Taijiri, Michael Cole, Funaki, Rey Mysterio, etc. in an attempt to forge alliances or something. Billy Kidman and Torrie were a couple (on-screen and off) at this point, so this dovetailed into Nidia trying to sexually assault Kidman but Torrie objecting. For reasons I don't think were ever even kind of explained, Torrie started tagging with other people, often against Noble/Nidia. A few weeks after the "gay wedding" thing, Billy and Chuck are recruited to judge a bikini contest between Nidia and Torrie and while they make it clear they are very much straight men who get boners over both women, Torrie is hotter and less trashy, so she wins and then both Billy and Chuck hit on her. This upsets Noble because they should be trying to gently caress his girlfriend, not Torrie, then they seemingly forget about this for six months and do some weird stuff where Jamie Noble brings in his cousin Nunzio and etc. Then in the summer of 2003, Jamie Noble inherits $100,000 from a dead relative and more or less immediately decides to use his newfound wealth to offer Torrie Wilson $10,000 to sleep with him, which outrages Torrie. Billy Gunn defends her honor in a tag match, which leads to Noble offering $25,000, which leads Torrie proposing the stipulation that if Jamie Noble can beat Billy Gunn at the Vengeance PPV, she will sleep with Jamie Noble. Jamie Noble wins the match, and they did these segments the following week. Which I guess was pretty much the blowoff of the angle? Nidia getting blinded was later in 2003.
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Jun 5, 2020 06:21
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At one point the gimmick for Martel was supposed to be a tag team with Don Casablancas as "The Supermodels". Or as he's better known, Don "Cyrus/Jackyl" Callis (he and Martel have been friends for a long rear end time). Then Martel left for WCW, and they transitioned Callis to being the Jackyl. That was around '97, I wonder if Don and Rick get approached to do something like Too Much. Could have been extra disastrous since Callis is a bright guy who also had a TON of locker room heat. El Gallinero Gros fucked around with this message at 12:22 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 12:17
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Here's another group of questions. 1. I've seen referees count while someone's climbed the turnbuckles. Technically, can someone be counted out if they stand on the top turnbuckle for a count of 10? Or have I misunderstood what I've seen? If that's a thing, what's the psychology behind it? 2. You know, watching Bob Backlund, his style looks incredibly realistic, but it's also a great style for a long career. He doesn't really take crazy bumps, so he very easily could've wrestled longer than he did, if he wanted to. Is there anyone else at his level who had a style that also lent itself to longevity? 3. Wait a minute. How did Fake Sting know which face paint to wear?! This whole wrestling thing is fake! FAKE!  But to be serious, Jeff Farmer made out pretty well playing an impostor of a well-known wrestler, at least for a little while. Rick Bogner and Glen Jacobs, not so much. Has anyone ever successfully played a replacement or impostor of someone else? 4. So at In Your House 4 (October '95), after the Diesel/Bulldog match ended in a DQ, Vince chewed Diesel out right there, after the show went off the air. Can anyone provide the background as to why? Bulldog main evented the next IYH, so he clearly didn't take any blame. Was it just Vince being pissed about the lovely run and a lovely match? I was watching intermittently at best during this time, and just ignored most of the Mabel/Sid/Yokozuna stuff with Diesel. 5. Was Bischoff always slated to be part of the nWo, and was it always planned to be that large of a group, and to go for that long?
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Jun 5, 2020 15:36
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They didn't have a long term plan for the nWo. They kinda stumbled into the Sting thing by accident. Eric wasn't planned to join at the beginning, but him joining made sense and shored up some plot holes, back when wrestling kinda cared about them.
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Jun 5, 2020 15:46
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Red posted:1. I've seen referees count while someone's climbed the turnbuckles. Technically, can someone be counted out if they stand on the top turnbuckle for a count of 10? Or have I misunderstood what I've seen? If that's a thing, what's the psychology behind it? Climbing the turnbuckles is the same as exiting the ring, therefore the referee starts a count of 10. I don't think i've ever seen someone lose a match that way, though. It's probably happened on the independent scene. Also in WCW jumping off the turnbuckle used to be an instant DQ, which was a really bizarre rule. Obviously when they brought the Cruiserweights in that was abolished. Dell_Zincht fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Jun 5, 2020 |
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Jun 5, 2020 15:56
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Dell_Zincht posted:Also in WCW jumping off the turnbuckle used to be an instant DQ, which was a really bizarre rule. It was a product of the times. In the 80s (and before?), nearly anything involving someone going over, or jumping off of, the top rope resulted in a DQ. These were definitely NWA and AWA rules. It was used to set up Dusty Finishes, or allow heels to commit dastardly acts when the ref was distracted/down/whatever.
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Jun 5, 2020 16:12
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Dell_Zincht posted:Climbing the turnbuckles is the same as exiting the ring, therefore the referee starts a count of 10. I don't think i've ever seen someone lose a match that way, though. It's probably happened on the independent scene. It was a Bill Watts thing. He was regressive in more ways than one.
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Jun 5, 2020 16:20
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Dell_Zincht posted:Climbing the turnbuckles is the same as exiting the ring, therefore the referee starts a count of 10. I don't think i've ever seen someone lose a match that way, though. It's probably happened on the independent scene. I realized today I've always just assumed this, and never seen or heard anyone talk about it.
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Jun 5, 2020 16:34
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Red posted:4. So at In Your House 4 (October '95), after the Diesel/Bulldog match ended in a DQ, Vince chewed Diesel out right there, after the show went off the air. Can anyone provide the background as to why? Bulldog main evented the next IYH, so he clearly didn't take any blame. Was it just Vince being pissed about the lovely run and a lovely match? I was watching intermittently at best during this time, and just ignored most of the Mabel/Sid/Yokozuna stuff with Diesel. It was a boring match, it had an awful finish, the fans were loud about how bad the match and the finish were. It's really that simple.
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Jun 5, 2020 16:42
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A question that does NOT deserve a thread, about a company that does NOT deserve your eyeballs. From the WWE thread, specifically Wednesday's NXT: quote:Triple H came out and awarded the legitimately fired Drake Maverick with a new contract despite losing. The show ended with Maverick weeping with happiness for being given a second chance by the monstrous piece of poo poo company that fired him in the middle of a Global Pandemic despite making record profits. No word on if he is one of the wrestlers who got offered his job back at a fraction of the money WWE were paying them before firing them. gently caress this piece of poo poo company and gently caress this storyline whether it was fully a work or was real all along or whatever. Seriously. This is loving disgusting. That is not editorializing, that is straight-up fact. So was Drake's firing a work? He was the only one (IIRC) that continued to wrestle after being "let go." I can't actually imagine this being a real thing.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:03
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I can't imagine that they legally can't false report firings in that way: they are a public company and there are rules about things like that and reporting one worked firing amongst a lot of other shoot ones would be dumb. Could be wrong though.
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Jun 5, 2020 17:39
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They've skirted the rules for years, though. Reporting worked attendance numbers as real ones is one Dave has brought up often
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Jun 5, 2020 17:46
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WWE attendance figures are as accurate as Korakuen hall numbers for the 80's!
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Jun 5, 2020 18:02
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Rusty Shackelford posted:Dustin had like 2 matches in the WWF before going to WCW. I don't know if that counts. Rusty Shackelford posted:Stan Stasiak and Ivan Koloff held the title for a few weeks combined and were merely the heel of the month in the main event when they won.
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Jun 5, 2020 18:14
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About IYH 4: I see that Henry O. Godwinn defeated Sid in a dark match??? Anyone know what happened, was it a DQ or something?
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Jun 5, 2020 18:56
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Numero6 posted:About IYH 4: I see that Henry O. Godwinn defeated Sid in a dark match??? Anyone know what happened, was it a DQ or something? No clue, but given that it was a dark match and Godwinn was a babyface being pushed, I imagine it was just WWF doing what they always do in that situation and put the babyface over to make the crowd happy.
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Jun 5, 2020 19:17
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ChrisBTY posted:It was a Bill Watts thing. He was regressive in more ways than one. As noted, while this is true, it's also because it used to be the rule back in the NWA/JCP era. The logic, I believe, is that doing moves off the top rope is so devastating that it's basically like using a weapon, so it's supposed to be a heel thing. Except it's flashy and always get a pop and isn't as obviously an unfair advantage like a foreign object, so it very quickly became more of a babyface spot during Watts' absence from the business.
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Jun 5, 2020 19:42
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Speaking of banned moves, why is the Tombstone an auto DQ in Lucha?
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Jun 5, 2020 19:44
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Speaking of banned moves, why is the Tombstone an auto DQ in Lucha? Piledriver was a death move in a lot of territories
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Jun 5, 2020 19:47
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SatoshiMiwa posted:Speaking of banned moves, why is the Tombstone an auto DQ in Lucha? it's legit dangerous, and it gets a lot of heat
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Jun 5, 2020 20:45
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I watched the original Pro Wrestling NOAH Departure shows that were just put up on Wrestle Universe and at the beginning they show "Pro Wrestling NOAH", "Departure" (and the date of the show) and the phrase "6 Years After". What's "6 Years After" in reference to?
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Jun 5, 2020 21:18
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Greekonomics posted:I watched the original Pro Wrestling NOAH Departure shows that were just put up on Wrestle Universe and at the beginning they show "Pro Wrestling NOAH", "Departure" (and the date of the show) and the phrase "6 Years After". What's "6 Years After" in reference to? Baba's passing, maybe? Edit:never mind, the talent exodusx was drat near instant
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Jun 5, 2020 21:19
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Smoking Crow posted:it's legit dangerous, and it gets a lot of heat Have there been any Luchas in history who just said 'gently caress you I'ma do heckin' tombstones'
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Jun 5, 2020 21:19
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ChrisBTY posted:Have there been any Luchas in history who just said 'gently caress you I'ma do heckin' tombstones' Yeah Rudo's use it to either steal pins when the ref is distracted or to get heat by doing it (and taking the DQ) and watching the opponent get stretchered out.
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Jun 5, 2020 21:35
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Smoking Crow posted:it's legit dangerous, and it gets a lot of heat Red posted:2. You know, watching Bob Backlund, his style looks incredibly realistic, but it's also a great style for a long career. He doesn't really take crazy bumps, so he very easily could've wrestled longer than he did, if he wanted to. Is there anyone else at his level who had a style that also lent itself to longevity?
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Jun 5, 2020 21:39
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Is there a way to buy a single issue of the Observer, or do you have to subscribe?
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Jun 5, 2020 22:06
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Power Windows posted:Is there a way to buy a single issue of the Observer, or do you have to subscribe? You can buy single issues, but if it's recent stuff, just buying for a month isn't that much more.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:11
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Red posted:
Lucha libre, specifically wrestlers that didn't do a ton of top rope moves that landed them on their knees or hips. Negro Casas is the obvious example.
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Jun 5, 2020 22:13
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Dell_Zincht posted:Climbing the turnbuckles is the same as exiting the ring, therefore the referee starts a count of 10. I don't think i've ever seen someone lose a match that way, though. It's probably happened on the independent scene. I thought it was a five count til a disqualification because the opponent is technically touching the ropes
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Jun 6, 2020 14:09
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Re: Gay panic in wrestling I did a homosexual gimmick during the tale end of my wrassling career in Texas. I was Gavin Arliss Young or GAY, from the Red Light District of San Francisco. I had a tag team/life partner Sassy McBottoms and our entrance music was "I known what boys like" by the Waitress's and our tag team was the Holy Order of Men Only or HOMO. I would mince about and had lots of crotch based offence. I'd sneak kisses on my opponents during lock ups or pin attempts ect. At the time, I thought this would be a great way to get heat. In exchange for being a heel, I thought I wouldn't have to work as hard at the actual wrestling. I'd been through a serious concussion and was doubting my abilities as a performer. This wasnt the case. I thought it would be funny, but in Tyler Texas they had a different sense of humor. Their idea of funny was to whip AA batteries at me. One time after a show I was getting dressed and this good ole boy walks right up to me and goes "We don't go fer that f****t poo poo here in Tyler" and flipped open his pocket knife at me. I stammered and went "uh uh uh its fake! I'm married!" showing him my wedding ring and then he says "oh! Want some whiskey?" and offered me his flask. In hindsight it's pretty embarrassing and was just an attempt to use real prejudice for my own personal gain. What's odd is there is another homosexual styled wrestler in north texas named Max Muscules and hes a HUGE chud.
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Jun 6, 2020 21:02
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gently caress That poo poo (FTS - my tag team name)
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Jun 6, 2020 21:15
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Red posted:2. You know, watching Bob Backlund, his style looks incredibly realistic, but it's also a great style for a long career. He doesn't really take crazy bumps, so he very easily could've wrestled longer than he did, if he wanted to. Is there anyone else at his level who had a style that also lent itself to longevity? quote:But to be serious, Jeff Farmer made out pretty well playing an impostor of a well-known wrestler, at least for a little while. Rick Bogner and Glen Jacobs, not so much. Has anyone ever successfully played a replacement or impostor of someone else?
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Jun 6, 2020 22:43
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