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Rusty Shackelford
Feb 7, 2005


Admiral Joeslop posted:

Who's the biggest name that started off as absolute bottom tier garbage but eventually became huge? Someone's gotta have gone from David Flair to any WWE headliner level.

There's always been stories about how much Hogan knew about the business when he started, including one about someone breaking his leg that is almost certainly a lie. I'd love to see his first matches.

From a technical standpoint or do you mean jobber to main eventer?

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Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.

Lamuella posted:

If you mean in terms of quality in the ring, Trish Stratus was absolutely awful when she started. Just the drizzling shits. But she tried hard and got better and eventually became a very good wrestler who could put on main event quality matches when given the chance.

This is a good answer. Trish started off as arm candy and was generally awful; she worked her rear end off to improve. Her growth is amazing, considering she didn’t have a deep women’s division to learn from and be carried by. Thinking back, she probably had Luna, Molly, Jazz, and... I’m not sure who else. Maybe Tori and Ivory?

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Trish got to an average level of ability, she wasn't ever "very good". All the very good women were in Japan at the time.

Admiral Joeslop
Jul 8, 2010






Fun Shoe

Rusty Shackelford posted:

From a technical standpoint or do you mean jobber to main eventer?

In actual technical ability to wrestle. There have been lots of people that can't wrestle who are able to fake it enough to make it to the top. Trish is a good answer!

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.

Randaconda posted:

Trish got to an average level of ability, she wasn't ever "very good". All the very good women were in Japan at the time.

For a “division” centered around bra and panties matches, Trish became very good. Compared to Japan or current women, she’s average, but you have to consider where she started, and the environment at the time. Considering she had no incentive to improve in the ring if she could just do T&A gimmick matches, her work is fantastic.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



nah, she was just average, just made to look better by bad opponents. That doesn't make her great.

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.

Randaconda posted:

nah, she was just average, just made to look better by bad opponents. That doesn't make her great.

Agree to disagree, but I think someone whose resume was bikini model previous to wrestling deserves some credit for their work when it wasn’t required.

That said, I do wonder if Owen Hart would be a reasonable person for this question, given where he started.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



I am giving her credit! Going from terrible to perfectly fine is a nice accomplishment, I'm just not gonna say she's great, because she wasn't.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Owen's career kinda fell off the end, so it's hard to judge

(USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)

Purple Monkey
May 5, 2014

Hello

Admiral Joeslop posted:

Who's the biggest name that started off as absolute bottom tier garbage but eventually became huge? Someone's gotta have gone from David Flair to any WWE headliner level.

There's always been stories about how much Hogan knew about the business when he started, including one about someone breaking his leg that is almost certainly a lie. I'd love to see his first matches.

The Rock going from getting "die Rocky die" chants to being one of the biggest stars in the entire history of the sport

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.

Randaconda posted:

I am giving her credit! Going from terrible to perfectly fine is a nice accomplishment, I'm just not gonna say she's great, because she wasn't.

Ha! Fair enough.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Purple Monkey posted:

The Rock going from getting "die Rocky die" chants to being one of the biggest stars in the entire history of the sport

Going back, the "die Rocky die" thing is overstated. The crowds turned on Cena and especially Reigns much worse

Red
Apr 15, 2003

Yeah, great at getting us into trouble.

Purple Monkey posted:

The Rock going from getting "die Rocky die" chants to being one of the biggest stars in the entire history of the sport

Yeahhh, but - Vince was going to repackage and repush Rocky every 6 months until he got over.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Red posted:

Yeahhh, but - Vince was going to repackage and repush Rocky every 6 months until he got over.

He should have repackaged Reigns, instead of killing off the entire main event scene for his failed push, which the effects can still be seen today

Alaois
Feb 7, 2012

D U S T M A N


go the gently caress away

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.




Randaconda posted:

Trish got to an average level of ability, she wasn't ever "very good". All the very good women were in Japan at the time.

For early to mid 2000s WWE she was very good. And that's the context she was in. No point comparing her to Manami Toyota when Manami Toyota wasn't there.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Lamuella posted:

For early to mid 2000s WWE she was very good. And that's the context she was in. No point comparing her to Manami Toyota when Manami Toyota wasn't there.

They were in the same industry, so they are easily comparable.

Lid
Feb 18, 2005

Cabana's legal advice?
I'm bourgeoisie.
I... hit the shitty
firemans carry knee.






Admiral Joeslop posted:

Who's the biggest name that started off as absolute bottom tier garbage but eventually became huge? Someone's gotta have gone from David Flair to any WWE headliner level.

There's always been stories about how much Hogan knew about the business when he started, including one about someone breaking his leg that is almost certainly a lie. I'd love to see his first matches.

If reports are correct Nigel McGuinness was one if the worst wrestlers anyone had ever seen for his first few years. Like below jobber level.

Claytor
Dec 5, 2011


Admiral Joeslop posted:

Who's the biggest name that started off as absolute bottom tier garbage but eventually became huge? Someone's gotta have gone from David Flair to any WWE headliner level.

There's always been stories about how much Hogan knew about the business when he started, including one about someone breaking his leg that is almost certainly a lie. I'd love to see his first matches.

Strowman.

His first year on the main roster was ROUGH.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Lid posted:

If reports are correct Nigel McGuinness was one if the worst wrestlers anyone had ever seen for his first few years. Like below jobber level.

People legit claimed he was the most improved wrestler of all time.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Also, Jeff Hardy started out as an underage jobber and made it pretty far

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008



Alaois posted:

go the gently caress away

are you talking to me?

MassRafTer
May 26, 2001

Fundamentals as sound as the WNBA


Admiral Joeslop posted:

Who's the biggest name that started off as absolute bottom tier garbage but eventually became huge? Someone's gotta have gone from David Flair to any WWE headliner level.

There's always been stories about how much Hogan knew about the business when he started, including one about someone breaking his leg that is almost certainly a lie. I'd love to see his first matches.

Nigel McGuinness was really awful when he started and ended up as one of the best wrestlers on Earth. It wasn't even that gradual, he was just bad for a few years, then fine but really boring and then suddenly he's just the best.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



Cavauro posted:

are you talking to me?

i think it was to me

El Gallinero Gros
Mar 17, 2010



Dustin Rhodes got REALLY good after a couple of rough years with some weirdly unrealistic expectations.

Cody absolutely wasn't ready for WWE tv when he got called by his own admission and has gotten good, he just needs some restraint when booking himself (like father like son I guess)

Apparently Samoa Joe was the drizzling shits in his first few years but improved greatly once UPW started booking him.

Chris Hero was every complaint you've ever heard about the bad habits of overindulgent indy workers and became an absolutely fantastic wrestler.

One of the reasons Miz was briefly a darling of this sub forum was going from embarrassingly lovely to passable in the ring while becoming strong on the mic. He's still not great, and god help you if you call a spot where you dive on him, but I'd trust him to walk a greenhorn through a match.

Chris Masters is also a great example of "Called up before he was ready, but persevered and improved" to the point where CM Punk, one of the most miserable pricks in the business when it comes to assessing his peers (and in general), singled him out for praise when cutting down John Lauranitis for the way WWE discards talent haphazardly.

Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



yeah, Chris Masters was way better when he came back, Trips buried him about being way smaller, then welp

Tonfa
Apr 8, 2008

I joined the #RXT REVOLUTION.

he knows...



Any excuse to post this pic of the Korakuen Hall stairway, which is all graffitied up. While I was snapping the shot a scottish guy looked at me, looked at it and laughed "well, THAT's not ever happening"

FunMerrania
Mar 3, 2013

Blast Processing


Sami Zayn has come a long way from his early IWS stuff, can't imagine how rough his rural quebec/mcfly stuff was.
Joey Janela is another one, you can find his first match on youtube.

Davros1
Jul 19, 2007

You've got to admit, you are kind of implausible




Mark Henry has to be considered.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006

You don't seem to get it, do you? I'll NEVER give up, not with the power of [MY TIME IS NOW] beside me!


big daddy yum yum

Cavauro
Jan 9, 2008



everyone knows ric flair sucked and tried to be a dusty rhodes ripoff until 1974 so that's a good one to say. You can say it

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

I know "Roman Reigns is a good wrestler" isn't a popular opinion, but even at his dumbest booking he's a million times better than when he was Leakee in FCW.

Web Jew.0
May 13, 2009


Davros1 posted:

Mark Henry has to be considered.

Yeah but some of the others mentioned went from a 1 to a 9-10 whereas Mark Henry went from 1 to like 4.

Eat My Fuc
May 29, 2007
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


Benne posted:

I know "Roman Reigns is a good wrestler" isn't a popular opinion, but even at his dumbest booking he's a million times better than when he was Leakee in FCW.

Reigns is a good wrestler, no one will admit it here but even his last man standing with Corbin was awesome, especially when the Usos got involved. He's purely WWE style and if you think it's impossible for that to be good than you wouldn't like him but if you think the style works sometimes he's one of the best at it to ever do it in my opinion.

jesus WEP
Oct 17, 2004

OM NOM NOM NOM NOM



Fun Shoe

Reigns is a very good wrestler

Lamuella
Jun 26, 2003

It's like goldy or bronzy, but made of iron.




being a bit facetious, doesn't basically every wrestler who is any good get better between their first appearances and their prime?

Cerebral Bore
Apr 21, 2010



Fun Shoe

Roman Reigns is a perfectly good wrestler who could be one of the biggest stars in the business were it not for WWE loving him up over and over again.

Benne
Sep 2, 2011

STOP DOING HEROIN

Cerebral Bore posted:

Roman Reigns is a perfectly good wrestler who could be one of the biggest stars in the business were it not for WWE loving him up over and over again.

Roman is legit really loving good when they play to his strengths as a no-nonsense badass who's not afraid to work stiff (his matches with Styles and Bryan are a great example of this -- even the first match with Brock, where he got dumped on his head a dozen times and came up laughing and bleeding from the mouth, made him look cool as gently caress). So of course WWE makes him work like a WWE Top Babyface, where you gotta sell for like 90% of the match before hitting 2 moves and winning, and that formula is where he suffers.

In a better universe he fucks off from that company and goes in the G1 to slap beef with Ishii/Shingo/Goto.

Benne fucked around with this message at 09:19 on Jun 21, 2020

STAC Goat
Mar 12, 2008

Watching you sleep.

Butt first, let's
check the feeds.



Reigns has never done much of anything for me except as a tag wrestler but he's also "WWE Style" personified and I HATE "WWE Style" so whatcha gonna do?

I think the same goes for Trish Stratus. To say she was "great" has always struck me as a silly exaggeration from a broader perspective. To deny that she greatly improved from where she started would be an insult to her. It usually comes down to "she was great for the WWE Style of the time" which might well be true but is a large caveat for a lot of people. ESPECIALLY in the case of "Divas wrestling".

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Randaconda
Jul 3, 2014

The preceding post has been paid for by the new World order.



STAC Goat posted:

Reigns has never done much of anything for me except as a tag wrestler but he's also "WWE Style" personified and I HATE "WWE Style" so whatcha gonna do?

I think the same goes for Trish Stratus. To say she was "great" has always struck me as a silly exaggeration from a broader perspective. To deny that she greatly improved from where she started would be an insult to her. It usually comes down to "she was great for the WWE Style of the time" which might well be true but is a large caveat for a lot of people. ESPECIALLY in the case of "Divas wrestling".

I was saying that earlier, but I was informed she was the HBK of women's wrestling.

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