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Edge & Christian posted:Vince probably saw a mop in silhouette and thought it looked sexy before catching himself and someone had to get that gimmick. Maybe in a rare case of WWE referencing current pop culture, someone in creative saw that Sealab episode with Buckethead Wendy. 
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Sep 11, 2021 22:52
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sticklefifer posted:Maybe in a rare case of WWE referencing current pop culture, someone in creative saw that Sealab episode with Buckethead Wendy. I always thought Moppy was just a rip off of WCW's stuff with Chavo and his stick horse Pepe
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Sep 12, 2021 01:00
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Duke Pukem posted:I always thought Moppy was just a rip off of WCW's stuff with Chavo and his stick horse Pepe Yeah. In particular, both angles were resolved exactly the same way.
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Sep 12, 2021 01:08
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Dawgstar posted:On his podcast with Gerry Brisco talking to that match's referee, apparently now Bradshaw's story about the Public Enemy thing was right before the match went on at Gorilla Position PE flatly refused to do the planned table spot finish and didn't offer any alternatives, just they didn't want to do it. Also according to Bradshaw they thought PE was going to come back all hot and get into a fight with he and Ron but when they did get backstage they just shook APA's hands and went on about their business. Sounds like Bradshaw taking the chance to make Public Enemy in the wrong long after both men are dead. Pretty classy.
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Sep 12, 2021 01:27
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Zombie Lemur posted:Thanks. Edge & Christian fucked around with this message at 02:12 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 02:09
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TheKingslayer posted:Sounds like Bradshaw taking the chance to make Public Enemy in the wrong long after both men are dead. Pretty classy. If it helps the story was always PE was in the wrong (wrong with as many air quotes as needed) in some form or fashion as far as I recall, like they apparently tried to play big shot backstage in one telling.
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Sep 12, 2021 03:11
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what is this tweet referring to? https://twitter.com/UselessKnwldge/status/1436850263978127360
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Sep 12, 2021 04:58
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fez_machine posted:what is this tweet referring to? ALL WHEELS WRESTLING https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjmUFC03xIQ
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Sep 12, 2021 05:02
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The All Wheels Wrestling pilot can be watched here. https://vimeo.com/74673748
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Sep 12, 2021 05:08
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Hmm. This ain't got poo poo on Monster Wars.
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Sep 12, 2021 05:14
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MassRafTer posted:The All Wheels Wrestling pilot can be watched here. holy poo poo why would anyone think this was a good idea
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Sep 12, 2021 05:28
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fez_machine posted:holy poo poo why would anyone think this was a good idea because you have a brain trust like jeff jarrett and hermie saddler
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Sep 12, 2021 05:30
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I don't know what I was expecting, but it wasn't a regular wrestling show where people just talk about racing sometimes and have car gimmicks. I think I was picturing like, matches in the center of a race track loop while cars zoom around them, or the AAA matches they've been doing lately where everyone's in their cars surrounding the ring instead of chairs. Instead it's like that Patton Oswalt bit about hair metal videos. "The band is rocking out, rubbing bare shoulder blades together in a factory that just makes sparks, and then they cut to a bunch of hot babes MILES AWAY in an auto-wrecking yard playing with power tools!"
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Sep 12, 2021 05:48
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Alaois posted:ALL WHEELS WRESTLING Did that even make it on to TV?
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Sep 12, 2021 06:51
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edogawa rando posted:Did that even make it on to TV? i think they were trying to sell it to the former FUEL network (which would later become fs2 iirc) but it never made it to air.
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Sep 12, 2021 09:56
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El Gallinero Gros posted:He was wrestling a guy on Jakked and they had some communication issues that caused the guy to botch some stuff, so Saturn stiffed him hard for the rest of the match. Saturn has since said he regrets it and the guy passed away from a heart attack because of steroid use. His brother then made a documentary about steroid use in sports called Bigger Faster Stronger. Incidentally, it's a REALLY good documentary
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Sep 12, 2021 14:44
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Was a serious competitor to WWE inevitable? One of the things that people often talk about in the rise of AEW is the things it wouldn't have happened without. WWE not letting Cody drop the Stardust gimmick. The Dave tweet about a 10k attendance indie show. WWE insulting Jericho by bumping him from a main event universal title win to a curtain jerking US title loss at Wrestlemania 33. The existence of a billionaire nerd who had been obsessed with wrestling since childhood. This adds up to the impression that AEW wouldn't have happened without a very very specific set of circumstances. On the other hand, there are also broader drivers that meant that AEW, once formed, succeeded. An increasingly complacent WWE. Technology that meant that it was easier than ever to watch media outside of the mainstream. The significant rise of high quality independent wrestling from around the world meaning that WWE's hegemony over the term "wrestling" was in question. This added up to a gap in the market and demand for a product. So given both of these things: if AEW had never happened, would a different wrestling company (or a group of different wrestling companies) have filled the gap?
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Sep 12, 2021 15:01
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Given the steady decline of WWE then I guess it would have happened sooner or later.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:11
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I mean inevitable could mean like a hundred years, so yes. Nobody stays on top forever even if they’re great, and WWE is really bad. But whether WWE would’ve had a serious contender in the 2020s without Tony Khan… that sorta depends on how you define “serious”. NJPW and ROH were steadily gaining popularity while WWE was steadily losing popularity, every year. If both those trends continue, they might get as close as AEW is now or close enough to still be considered a serious threat within the decade. Web Jew.0 fucked around with this message at 15:45 on Sep 12, 2021 |
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Sep 12, 2021 15:15
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It's difficult to imagine anything else. There was money and talent to keep TNA alive for 20 years, you've had ROH for 20 years and there's been nothing close. I think you needed a bunch of things coming together like: - CM Punk, Daniel Bryan, The Shield, NXT et al. igniting a new layer of interest in wrestling fans/lapsed fans returning - NJPW Bullet Club giving US wrestlers a chance to become prestegious stars outside of WWE - WWE systematically squeezing the goodwill out of all the renewed interest - Rise of indies with streaming services, hot crowd moments to share on social media, and a audience then has a big appetite for non-WWE style - Tony Khan being uniquely position with the money and being obsessed with wrestling Without a bunch of those things coming together, it's hard to imagine anything growing. I don't like the old phrase "Wrestling is a cyclical business" because it implies that upturns are just inevitable and they'll just eventually roll in. If AEW hadn't kicked off you could just happily have WWE producing Entertainment Content for all eternity with no comparable ratings draw.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:15
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Spuckuk posted:Incidentally, it's a REALLY good documentary Isn't that the documentary that lays out all of its evidence that American masculinity in pop culture and physical culture is a gigantic toxic mess that fucks men up and leads them towards anxiety, depression, body dysmorphia, disordered eating and exercise, and then through that into violence, suicide, and further destructive behaviour, but then in the end turns 90 degrees and says "steroids are pretty cool I guess idk why everyone gets upset about them."
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Sep 12, 2021 15:23
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"Tony Khan," as in, an American teenager who was into WCW and ECW and Wrestling who would go on to have the business connections necessary to get a promotion off the ground running like Tony Khan has, was an inevitability imo. Wrestling was too popular with teenagers 20 years ago for none of them to hit the particular jackpot of connections Tony Khan had, and, clearly, one of them would demonstrate the desire to bring back the thing they loved and never stopped loving.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:42
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Lamuella posted:Was a serious competitor to WWE inevitable? A serious competitor was only a reality if a pretty big channel got behind them, & that was only happening if they had at least a bit of proven star behind them. So no, I've seen too many companies trying to be a serious contender only to fall flat on their face before they'd even gotten to the startline, or in the case of TNA fall on their face so often that they've given up on walking & just accepted crawling on their belly. That big star doesn't necessarily have to be Jericho, but if they waited until Jon Moxley left, and would he still have walked with no guaranteed destination to go to, perhaps Kenny & The Bucks have signed that NXT deal. Maybe New Japan could've kept growing but it's viability in the US is always going to be restricted by the fact that their biggest shows happen outside of America & most of the talent not being native English speakers. I am not sure I think that the time AEW happened was the only way & time a serious WWE competitor could've happened but it did involve a lot of cards need to fall into place in a way where I'd not say it's inevitable either.
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Sep 12, 2021 15:53
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Tony being the son of a NFL Owner (as much of an NFL teams as the Jags are) also really, really helped with TV as it opened doors that might not have opened for any other non WWE fed.
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Sep 12, 2021 17:33
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AEW is simply part of the unbroken dharmic chain. it was inevitable as all things are. no piece exists independently.
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Sep 12, 2021 17:42
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I do remember Jericho saying he was all set to blow Tony Khan off, then he learned he had a TV deal lined up and was like wait a sec
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Sep 12, 2021 17:47
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Lamuella posted:Was a serious competitor to WWE inevitable? Even if WWE had quickly gone bankrupt, that doesn't guarantee that another company would "fill the gap" and become as big as WWE. Wrestling could simply fall off network television, fall out of the mainstream, and become a local/regional entertainment medium. The example I'm thinking of is roller derby, which just died on TV and was eventually reborn as a competitive amateur sport.
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Sep 13, 2021 00:30
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What caused ROH to fall off so hard? Someone in another thread mentioned a downturn in 2018 which I'm only peripherally aware of.
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Sep 13, 2021 06:22
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nobody really cared about roh so much as they cared about a handful of top guys and their njpw relationship. their top talent left to start aew and then the pandemic killed the njpw relationship long enough for aew to butt in on it. there was a brief period where it looked like new booker marty scurll was gonna shake things up in an interesting way but then he got outed as taking advantage of an underage girl and forced out
Super No Vacancy fucked around with this message at 06:33 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 06:30
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even when roh had the young bucks and cody and page and dates on njpw guys including omega, they were pretty much just the ‘we have new japan/pwg at home’ option because neither of those actually hot promotions toured or had current tv. even revpro did more interesting stories/matches with njpw people
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Sep 13, 2021 06:35
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I think without AEW, wrestling over the next decade would look a lot like western comic books. Doing well overseas as a distinct form, especially in Japan, but in America almost completely parasitic on the largest but increasingly disinterested, ageing, and declining industry leader that established itself in the 60s and had a boom period in the 90s. Lots of diversity at an indie level but nothing truly sustainable or non-exploitative of the talent. Altogether, slowly but surely on a trend towards almost total irrelevance as a business even if the pop cultural cache is much larger and enduring.
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Sep 13, 2021 08:17
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yeah man for sure
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Sep 13, 2021 08:20
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Who are the Raina Telgemeier, Dav Pilkey, Meredith Gran, John Lewis, Allie Brosch, Jeffrey Brown, Chris Ware, Allison Bechdel, Robert Kirkman, etc. of wrestling? Even if you're trying to restrict "western comic books" to Marvel and DC Superheroes And Absolutely Nothing Else, which is wild, you also have the equivalent of dozens of The Rocks finding success outside of WWE/Marvel, and the WWE has absolutely dominated film and television (along with a bunch of indie wrestlers doing well in those avenues as well).
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Sep 13, 2021 13:04
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Super No Vacancy posted:nobody really cared about roh so much as they cared about a handful of top guys and their njpw relationship. their top talent left to start aew and then the pandemic killed the njpw relationship long enough for aew to butt in on it. there was a brief period where it looked like new booker marty scurll was gonna shake things up in an interesting way but then he got outed as taking advantage of an underage girl and forced out I'm pretty sure the NJPW relationship was already dead because of the MGS show. The pandemic just pissed on the ashes.
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Sep 13, 2021 13:13
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Endless Mike posted:I'm pretty sure the NJPW relationship was already dead because of the MGS show. The pandemic just pissed on the ashes. It looked like Marty was rebuilding it once he became booker. Nagata, Rocky and Narita were supposed to be the in the pure tournament (I think Rocky did end up getting in there). It still exists in some form, ROH guys are showing up on Strong, it just seems that they've fallen below AEW, Impact and even GCW for getting NJPW guys on their shows.
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Sep 13, 2021 13:33
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Endless Mike posted:I'm pretty sure the NJPW relationship was already dead because of the MGS show. The pandemic just pissed on the ashes. In 2017 NJPW sent Tanahashi, KUSHIDA, Gedo, Rocky Romero, Goto, BUSHI, Naito, Evil, Sanada, Will Ospreay, Jay White, and I think Trent and War Machine were NJPW signees at the time too. In 2018 NJPW sent Liger, Roppongi 3K, Jay White, and basically all of LIJ (Naito, Hiromu Evil, Sanada, BUSHI) over for War of the Worlds. In 2019 (after the MSG show) they sent/'sent' Guerillas of Destiny, Kojima, Nagata, Goto, and LA Dojo folks Hikuleo/Clark Connors/Alex Caughlin/Karl Fredericks. 2020 and 2021 they didn't do it. I believe all of the Elite who appeared in 2018 (Cody, the Bucks, Scurll, Hangman) and 2017 (Kenny, Bucks, Cody, Hangman, Cole) and 2016 (Kenny and the Bucks) were on dual ROH/NJPW contracts at the time, but the commitment to these shows feels like it was on the downswing even before MSG/the AEW exodus.
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Sep 13, 2021 13:51
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that first war of the worlds show in 2014 felt like such a major deal at the time
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Sep 13, 2021 14:38
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Edge & Christian posted:Who are the Raina Telgemeier, Dav Pilkey, Meredith Gran, John Lewis, Allie Brosch, Jeffrey Brown, Chris Ware, Allison Bechdel, Robert Kirkman, etc. of wrestling? Even if you're trying to restrict "western comic books" to Marvel and DC Superheroes And Absolutely Nothing Else, which is wild, you also have the equivalent of dozens of The Rocks finding success outside of WWE/Marvel, and the WWE has absolutely dominated film and television (along with a bunch of indie wrestlers doing well in those avenues as well). Okay, I'll bite. I'm going to be inconsistent and drawing a long bow for an already stretched analogy. When I said western comic books I meant the variety of mainstream and alt floppies and collections sold in comic book stores or at conventions/alt-comics meetings. The bookstore/YA/children's book market is very different, and largely doesn't convert people beyond wanting to become cartoonists/illustrators themselves. A very small percentage of that market is going to be seeking out Marvel/DC let alone Michael DeForge, Laura Lannes, Judge Dredd, unlicensed Dark Horse, or Love and Rockets. One overarching analogy could be that the bookstore/children's comics market is like wrestling movies and tv series in that it creates some interest but on the whole doesn't seem successful in bringing people through the door. In my analogy webcomics and going to art school are like the proliferation of local indies and wrestling schools over the last decade of WWE dominance. The simple fact is that the comic book store model is going to go out business sooner or later, except for some truly exceptional hold outs, and wrestling as a major force in American culture was slowly but surely going that way as well before AEW. Some of these are going to be individuals and some are going to be promotions because as I said it's a stretched to the limit analogy. Raina Telgemeir is Dave Bautista, insanely successful, but so far outside the traditional market that she does nothing to halt the decline. Dav Pikey is Andy Kaufman, successful, a lot of people's first encounter with the form but you also have to ask is what he's making the real thing? See also Raina Telgemeir for being far outside the traditional market . Meredith Gran is Brian Meyers, decent body of work but largely a teacher now days. Still working but the main project is in a different medium (podcasting for Meyers, point and click for Gran). John Lewis is hard to do because politicians don't become wrestlers, wrestlers become politicians. Allie Brosch. I don't know enough about to make a comparison/analogy. Jeffrey Brown is like a lesser Chikara, influential but those he influenced became far more successful elsewhere and he produced less and less. Chris Ware is PWG. Allison Bechdel is GLOW. Critically acclaimed, culturally influential, but if you like what you saw there's no clear path to other things in the same vein. Robert Kirkman/Sky Bound is Elite era ROH. A rising tide lifting all boats, genuinely brining people in to the fold, but it's hugely dependent on the outside success of a few individuals to maintain momentum and there's no clear replacement or successor. fez_machine fucked around with this message at 16:00 on Sep 13, 2021 |
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Sep 13, 2021 15:58
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At least GLOW passes the Bechdel Test
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Sep 13, 2021 16:01
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How aware would the casual wrestling fan have been about how dire WCW's situation was in the early 2000s?
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Sep 13, 2021 22:41
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