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Your boy muffinpox has been a bit slacking on car reviews because I’ve been gearing up to compete in national level events with my civic si. Now that I’m a big dick swinger who placed 3rd in class (aka second loser) at national championships, it’s time for review, both events and cars. 2017 Honda Civic Sport: Yes I drove a type r this season and this isn’t it My non-trash run: https://youtu.be/NvDJ-EE2bTg The E36 M3 holds a special place in my heart; I think it’s a great car but also loving hate it beyond belief because the E46 M3 is basically the same car but so much better at everything. It’s been 19 hours in the civic sport and we’re passing Des Moines on the way to Lincoln, Nebraska and I question whether I should have brought my si out here in the same manner. I can’t hate the Civic sport in the same way as the E36 M3. It’s not an Si, and it doesn’t pretend to be an Si. In fact, driving half way across the country in it has been a complete breeze. The tank range of 400+miles on 10 gallons makes me question which will give out first when the tow vehicles that need a stop every 300 miles are not in the convoy; my bladder or severe addiction to iced coffee. The seats are amazingly comfy and even on the 15 hour 1000mile return leg, I didn’t find myself sore or uncomfortable, mostly just bored. The interior is quiet, the little 1.5t cruises at highway speeds with gusto, and the sound system is great. It fits a set of tires, work bench, full contingent of tools, air mattress, bike, two suitcases, and cooler in the car with room to spare. When reading this, keep in mind, I think the civic sport is a great car but like a 911 owner poo pooing the cayman, gently caress you poors. The sport Interior doesn’t really inspire me. The digital speedo in the roundlet with the tach surround and readouts on the side are just kinda meh. Having to push the range button on the gauge cluster to toggle between tank range and trip mpgs is just meh. I miss the display toggle on the wheel and the dumb menu choices like lap timer, BOOST/VACUUM GAUGE, and shift light in the si. Although the shift light is actually useful because the motor is silent and I frequently question whether I hit redline in the civics with other drivers. It’s the little things in life. I miss my sport button that pops up red highlights and some little SPORT SHOCK dynamic graphics. Push the eco button in the sport and you get a green accent and a leaf. That’s not sporty. I pull up to the west course line at nats. This is a lot of new occurrences. This will be my third event in this car, third event on this tire compound, and third time ever driving concrete. I’ve realistically spent about 4 minutes with this combination and I’m about to see I do competing against national talent with it. The driving of the car doesn’t really inspire me. It’s not hard to launch the car, rev to 2-3k, gingerly engage the clutch, and one of the tires will scramble for traction a bit until the tire settles in and it chugs away from the line. The sport is decently quick, and fits a lot of tire so throttle management isn’t a massive concern. There’s a sharp turn at the starts, lift a bit to get the car turned in and then back onto throttle flat. The 1.5t has a bit of lag, being on throttle pre apex is important. The motor sounds good being run out but also doesn’t have much in the upper rpms, a short shift to second is worth it to get back into the torque band. And there you will stay. Even with long spaced courses and a 58mph top speed, it’s not worth ever going to third until you’re banging rev limiter for 3+ seconds. The car also has a 1-2 rev hang for miles per gallon, I’m used to dealing with this with the si but it’s still something I find atrocious in a sports car, although I do also love 40+ highway at 70mph. The handling of the car is also immensely difficult to get used to, and being a street class car, there is very limited adjustability to fix handling. Fwd cars need as much rotation as they can get, so this car gets a giant gently caress off rear sway bar. On this concrete surface, the bar was set to roughly double what the rear bar rate would be for the civic type r. The car actually felt great with this setting on concrete, it was very well balanced and I might have preferred a bit more rear rate. On non concrete surfaces it can be an unpredictable drift shitlord. Regardless of the rear bar balance settings, the spring and shocks are still like the toothpick bridges you built in grade school and buckle under cornering loads in a similar fashion and goddamn does this car take its time to roll over and settle while lifting the inside rear high enough to air five Shaq. The best way to describe the handling of the car is not what it does, but what it didn’t do, and it doesn’t take two inputs at once. Part of national level events is that you get three runs and then you’re done. After enough practice I’ve taken to the strategy that it’s easier to dial up speed than try and dial back down sections that you made mistakes in, but it’s still difficult in this car. With the softness of the car, when you turn in, you turn in once and you stick with that input. Slaloms are a one turn input that you stick with. Long sweepers you throw the car at and let the front scrub because it doesn’t have the power to make up underspeed and needing to be back on early throttle. Small radius 180s and 90s were the bane of my existence because the brakes on the car suck for modulation and consistency and a braking zone one run didn’t wouldn’t work the next. It seems like the options were either go too deep or go too slow, slower is the better option in slow stuff but I found the nose balking even when I thought I started braking early enough. I absolutely loathe the brakes on this car (I trashboat two corners back to back at :20s on brakes https://youtu.be/4zkBc1upct8) All in all, the sport is not a bad car, but it’s a civic pretending to be a sports car whereas the si is actually a better sports car than a lot of sports cars. The civic sport is something I would own if I had a fun secondary car, but for the price difference, I’d still take the si every time.
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Sep 9, 2019 04:21
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Congrats and welcome back! Can't wait for more.
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Sep 9, 2019 12:17
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Good write up as always. One small piece of information - the rev hang is not for fuel economy reasons, it's for emissions reasons. Closing the throttle suddenly causes a more oil to vaporize in the crankcase and also some lean-burn issues associated with NOx production. You can disable the rev hang through software and it won't impact your fuel economy, it will just make the car run a bit dirtier.
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Sep 9, 2019 13:02
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Always look forward to this thread popping up.
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Sep 9, 2019 13:05
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Good write up as always. We can’t do anything about it in street classes, I hate it so much.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:50
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Muffinpox posted:We can’t do anything about it in street classes, I hate it so much. Makes sense but also sucks.
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Sep 9, 2019 20:51
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2016 Cayman gt4: Whereupon I learned to drive a car cross legged https://youtu.be/DnjOSUTdKv0 I’ve been trying to drive Porsche’s at autocross for a while, Kimbo’s Boxster S is the only one I’ve driven. But every time I talk to a Porsche owner they can smell it. The Boxster smell. The hairdresser Porsche. “I don’t know if you can handle A Real Porsche” they tell me. I thought they would forever be a white whale. But maybe all the corn juice cars at nats covered up that musk because I was talking to a Cayman GT4 owner at a school I was instructing and mentioned I never really got to drive one, and they said take mine for a few runs. I tried my best to not appear like a Labrador being asked if it wants to go for a walk and coolly said “Holy gently caress yes please oh my loving god I can’t believe it holy poo poo” and that is why I’m sitting in the drivers seat of a $100k+ Cayman and holy poo poo. The precursor to the Cayman GT4s was the Cayman R. I’d ridden in a few of those, and while fast, I never really loved those cars. They have bare painted interior panels that give the cabin a funky vibe. The GT4 cabin is absolutely gorgeous though. I was asked to stop by the owner, but I could run my hands all over that black alcantara and leather all day. It looks amazing inside, the Porsche interior designers did an amazing job. The round Porsche gauges are classic with the big tach and digital speedo dead center. The multifunction right round pod is a great placement and really cool. The vertical stack lines of buttons. The infotainment. The little clock gauge. A button to shut off whatever letter soup Porsche uses to describe their systems and options. Do you know what PVT is? Learning all these option packages reminds me of studying for a spelling bee. $3000 to make your seatbelts match your underwear? gently caress yea. $2000 so the stitching is slightly less black than the interior? I would complain about dumb options but just gently caress me up here Porsche, this car is awesome. The three spoke wheel feels great in your hands. The 918 buckets are super comfy and have awesome bolstering and you get to say your car got delayed because they had to put them into a 918 and manufacture more. They probably cost more than I can afford, pal so I didn’t even ask. This car is super nice. Since I’m instructing, and since I have a student, there are two rules though. 1) Keep it to 80 (maybe 95)% and don’t hit cones. I get the point out and teach my student a very important lesson; stall the car. The throttle is longer and the clutch a bit grabby, but I won’t make that mistake again. I reach to the right and molest the dash a bit before remembering the key is on the left, then I turn on the headlights because the key is a bit to the right. The owner didn’t specify don’t gently caress up off course, so I’m making full use of it. We’re pootling up to the line and the exhaust is already intoxicating. I don’t think Porsche flat 6s sound intoxicating in the way the S2000 or an LS motor does, but the mechanical thrum of these motors sounds amazing. The tip in throttle blat also is unf. I want one of these. We get the go ahead, at the line; I don’t launch it but a nice roll out from 2krpm gets the car hustling off the line followed by an immediate right and I already know Porsche knocked it out of the park. The MR front end weightlessness is there and the car is stiffly sprung. This is what I’m used to. This is what makes a good autox car. I short shift to 2nd with the horsecock shifter and much improved snick snickness over boxster gearbox and start to feel it out and all I feel is turngasms. This car is so stupidly good. The front end has grip for days and the rear is extremely well balanced with the front. You turn in and it just goes there. Pass the apex and roll into throttle and there’s no wiggle, no whoopsies, no drama, it just starts pulling again out of the corner. This is what I kinda felt in the boxster, give this chassis a diff and the car would be unreal and it is. It really is. This car doesn’t have the Porsche word salad ceramic brakes but it doesn’t matter, the normal ones still have braking force for days. You can go super deep and super accurate on brakes, and the feel of them is amazing. If they weren’t scorching hot after the runs I would probably have rubbed the calipers in appreciation too. Goddamn this car is amazing. I lose myself in the controllability of the car. Faster I think. It can go faster. And it can, under braking the front weights up with infinite grip and the rear still follows along. Faster I must go. The car being stiff also alleviates some MR cars tendencies to get pushy when the front gets unloaded on throttle. The Porsche isn’t complete immune to being a dumb rear end with weight management but it handles early throttle very nicely without deviating from the line. This is also partly due to the gearing of the car which is not.. ideal for autocross. The second is very long, I believe 84mph long, and the motor isn’t super torquey so it means you can go almost flat in slower stuff and not have to worry about spinning the car. The speed ramps up as the motor winds out and once your at about 3000rpm the car absolutely hauls to redline while shrieking the entire way. It also means the faster you go, the more cautious you have to be with throttle, but given the longer pedal travel, it’s not too hard. I’m smitten with the car and get comfortable. Everyone knows that’s when you do bad things. We’re pounding through a slalom and that’s when I realize I’ve been staring at my dates cleavage without trying to hide it. The wiggle. There’s a point in MR cars where the rear has had enough of the front end having all the fun and it decides that it wants to come and play too. This is an unreal handling feeling; on power when you set the car and let jesus take the wheel and four wheel slide out of a corner, or let the rear end help rotation into a decreasing radius, or let the car semi pendulum itself through a slalom gives the most rewarding and satisfactory driving experience this side of when scissors start sliding through wrapping paper as you cut it. But that’s not 95% driving, that’s full send driving. I have tasted the sweet sweet nectar but I have to dial it back in. I’m not disappointed in the slightest though because holy gently caress this car is amazing. I don’t want to ruin later reviews but is this car better than a 911? Maybe. Maybe not. You’re gonna have to keep reading. Until then I’ll keep buying bitcoin until I can put one of these in my garage because this is one of the best cars Porsche has made and it is worth every penny for the gently caress you poor option package.
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Sep 26, 2019 01:35
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Coworker bought a Cayman GT4 last weekend, I'm bugging him daily to pick a track day so we can share it. They are amazing cars and if I had 100k to throw at a daily that is also a track weapon it would be near the top of that list. I did a few laps in another instructors 2017 at BIR and was just blown away.
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Sep 26, 2019 10:12
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KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:Good write up as always. I know this is an older post but can you do this in a SI? If so, tell me more.
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Sep 30, 2019 02:06
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NitroSpazzz posted:Coworker bought a Cayman GT4 last weekend, I'm bugging him daily to pick a track day so we can share it. They are amazing cars and if I had 100k to throw at a daily that is also a track weapon it would be near the top of that list. I did a few laps in another instructors 2017 at BIR and was just blown away. Yea they’re seriously good. I had a sampling of some other Uber Porsche’s this year for comparison. mariooncrack posted:I know this is an older post but can you do this in a SI? If so, tell me more. You can get an ecu flash (ktuner being one I know of) that has tunes and other option. One is to disable the revhang. Civic clutches are somewhat weak for torque ratings, so the big psi tunes are known for roasting clutches.
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Sep 30, 2019 02:28
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2017 Corvette Grand Sport: Let’s start from the beginning one more time Freedom: https://youtu.be/kzE0fD-stBo  A zero sits in my field of vision again. It represents how many more corvette stereotypes I can come up with and ways I can write them down that exist. It represents the amount of willpower I have to write another review about a corvette. They’re like Miatas, you know, how many times can you really say it handles amazingly but it doesn’t have any power and I have to agree on the color with my boyfriend? It took a lot for me to get out of the lawn chair and move the 25 best in show and most clean wheel awards I have from my C5 PACE CAR edition in paddock, but I’ve been told I need to drive this thing. What really piqued my interest is it wasn’t just a man in white adidas sneakers, it was a c5 z06 owner. And a c6 z06 owner. This is something different they tell me. And different it is. I hate to use the term nice when describing a corvette interior because the reality is that they are passable. I slide into the competition seat and already the gas was a nickel part of my brain is screaming at me. There’s a... thingy protruding, a bolster is what they call it. It’s snug. It holds me in place. This isn’t a bench seat that happens to look like a captains chair, this is a real seat. The interior also isn’t chintzy plastics, it’s nice materials. The wheel isn’t out of a cobalt or some weird shape or thickness. The cluster is an lcd panel that can display oil temp, water temp, tire pressures, maybe nav routes? There’s real leather. The cabin is smaller than previous corvettes, probably because they actually attempted to manage the trans tunnel heat instead of letting you find out how your 50th birthday cake feels in the oven like previous generations. There’s a dial to adjust the car between modes. The suspension, throttle, and traction control can all be set to different varying degrees of making you look good. The magnetic ride suspension is amazing on the street too. The car is pretty stiffly sprung but the dampers in comfort mode make the car quite supple on the street. If you spend the extra money, there’s an integrated camera and telemetry recorder to violate wiretapping laws in several states so you can be a real bad boy, or you can have an audio recording of your wife agreeing you get to keep the dog in the divorce after you bring one of these home unexpectedly.  Now that I’m a national podium level of good, I don’t need that fancy poo poo. Give me no nannies and most aggressive throttle. But show me how to do it because I didn’t really have time to play with the buttons. I also didn’t get to check out the cup holders, so I may still be disappointed heavily in this car. I get the point out and I alllllmost stall it but don’t. The LT1 still has that familiar low end V8 grunt and the clutch, while lighter, still has good feedback and modulation. They’ve also managed to get rid of the weird driveline bounce noise and feel when disengaging the clutch while partly on throttle. You know the one. There’s a lot different here, but also a lot the same. It’s a tight right out of the grid spot into the start line and the old familiar front wheel skipping occurs. Heritage. I pull up to the line, this is a convertible and my loving god does the LT1 sound amazing even at low revs with open air. Give it a little blip and you get the full cacophony. The starter gives me the go, I do the old vette thing and dial up 2000rpms and give it a nice roll out on the clutch, the rears chuff and the car leaves briskly and into an immediate right into a slalom and I immediately get it. Well I don’t really get it because this car has launch control, but I can’t use it. Not because I’ve been banned, because this car has an aftermarket suspension tune and the launch control has no idea what to make of it and doesn’t work with it. I ask the owner if thats like jetting the carbs on my 427 split window FAVE HUNNET HERSEPOWER and the owner pats me on the head. “There there”, he says, “there there.” The roll out in first and immediate right aren’t slow, they aren’t ginger, it is fast. The car is immediately in powerband and it has power from down low. The rear never makes a peep as it puts the power down in the sweeper and tracks without any corrections. This is loving unreal for a corvette. The c6z was the car that started this all, I was amazed at how docile and fast the car was if you asked it to do all the right things and how quickly it would let you hang yourself and murder you if you didn’t. The one saving grace of that car at autocross speeds was that you weren’t really in the death zone of the power band all that often and it was easy to manage the power. It was really only passing 5k that the car got into warp speed. The c5z was always in power band, but shorter geared and lower powered, so generally a bit hairier to drive but a bit harder to hang yourself with. The C7GS is c6 power with c5 gearing and putting the power down is like driving miss daisy. This car is an absolute loving masterpiece. I cannot believe how idiotic you can be with the throttle if the wheel isn’t turned past 45 degrees. The ediff is absolute magic. I will footnote that with I’m only the third person in a long list of people who drove it to not spin the car or put it in the dirt but I also have a podium National win so I’ll keep bringing that up. And the grip. Oh that grip. Vettes can get big big camber stock and this one is no different, and the front end feels limitless. The power is easy but the steering is a bit hard to get used to coming from a camber limited civic. You turn, it turns. More than one steering input means you turned too early and I had to back out steering inputs constantly with this car. Rear end about to come around? Maintain throttle, toss in a poo poo ton of that limitless front, let the car set attitude and enjoy your slide. In fact, the main problem with the car is how much fun it is to drive it like an absolute dumb rear end in a top hat and have it still obey commands and go where you want without trying to murder you. I only had 8 runs and really couldn’t help myself from just wanting to throttle steer with power everywhere. The car, unfortunately, still has to obey the laws of physics and the correct way to drive it seems to be just relying on the front with a nice input and then using partial throttle and that magic diff to warp to the next element but I’m on vacation. And I have to impress instagram with how much sawing I can do at the wheel. I guess I need to come up with some bad things so these don’t maintain value so I can buy one cheap soon. One, it’s a corvette, consumables are expensive. $1500 for tires. Better part of gallon burned per run. Huge jorts, button up, cell phone holder, and white sneaker budget. Its not cheap to do runs in this car. Conservatively, $10 every time you want to let America sing. Two, it’s wide. I kept hitting one cone and I have no idea where. I thought I was giving enough space and never heard the noise of a tire clipping one. Three, the brakes also feel limitless but I also suck at braking now because I drive slow cars and don’t need the brake pedal so I ended up triggering ice mode a few times. Is it me? No, it’s the car. You what, the grand sport sucks. I’m going to keep telling everyone the grand sport sucks and talk about how much better the c6z and c7z are so, when inevitably the c8 comes out, this isn’t remembered as the best naturally aspirated front engine corvette made. Which it isn’t, if you catch my drift. And I sure hope not many people do because I can’t wait to be catching throttle induced drifts for 20k in 2 years, because there’s nothing below the 100k price point quite as good. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 01:12 on Oct 4, 2019 |
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Oct 3, 2019 23:21
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Another good review. I'm looking forward to you getting a seat in a C8 and seeing how it compares. The C6 seemed like a good damned car, and the C7 even better... is the C8 going to overshadow these? I kinda hope so, so the value goes down and makes hooliganism affordable.
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Oct 4, 2019 00:50
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Awesome reviews. Out of curiosity, since i've seen both in my local autocross: GT4 vs C7 GS? Any thoughts head to head? I had a 981 CS and I keep on thinking about a GT4...
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Oct 4, 2019 01:18
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meatpimp posted:Another good review. I'm looking forward to you getting a seat in a C8 and seeing how it compares. The C6 seemed like a good damned car, and the C7 even better... is the C8 going to overshadow these? I kinda hope so, so the value goes down and makes hooliganism affordable. Driving one might take a bit, but I know of a few that have been ordered. They look pretty monstrous given the specs, the c7s are already some of the fastest street cars. Combining mr handling, that acceleration, and that any gear any time transmission is quite the package. Residency Evil posted:Awesome reviews. Out of curiosity, since i've seen both in my local autocross: GT4 vs C7 GS? Any thoughts head to head? I had a 981 CS and I keep on thinking about a GT4... Grand sport, easily. It’s one of if not the best street autocross cars I’ve driven. The GT4 is a much nicer car, and it has that Porsche cachet, but it has dead zone. It really excels when it’s in the strong suits of the car, like impressing dates or parking at car shows. But the c7 is just always on. The way I would describe it is that there are good cars, there are fun cars, and there are good fun cars. The c7 is always in the good fun car column, even just driving down the road with the top down and the v8 blasting. The GT4 is a solidly good car, but it’s not particularly thrilling all the time.
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Oct 4, 2019 03:24
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Hi muffinpox have you ever considered reviewing an UrS4, I bet you'd love it.
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Oct 4, 2019 11:42
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I got a ride in a 200 with an AAN swap and it was just like old times.
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Oct 4, 2019 15:48
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Out of curiosity, ever drive a 987 boxster/cayman? Maybe a boxster Spyder?
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Oct 4, 2019 21:38
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Residency Evil posted:Out of curiosity, ever drive a 987 boxster/cayman? Maybe a boxster Spyder? I drove a 986 Boxster S, I could probably get a seat in a Spyder too at some point.
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Oct 4, 2019 23:55
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ND Miata yet? I can't remember if you drove one or not.
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Oct 5, 2019 13:35
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Yea, I didn’t write a review for it because lol how many ways can you describe a Miata (they’re really good). Also I dont fit in one with my helmet on and the top up.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:05
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Muffinpox posted:Yea, I didn’t write a review for it because lol how many ways can you describe a Miata (they’re really good). Also I dont fit in one with my helmet on and the top up. How would you compare it to older Miatas tho? Assuming stock for stock.
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Oct 5, 2019 17:44
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Applebees Appetizer posted:How would you compare it to older Miatas tho? Assuming stock for stock. It’s a better car overall; I like the looks more, like the interior more, and they’re much quicker at autocross. The NC isn’t bad but I’d probably spend the extra for an ND1.
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Oct 5, 2019 22:23
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2019 Honda civic type r: Tyte car? Tyte car. I’ve had a hard time approaching the angle for this review. Do I poo poo on the sport and sing praises for the si and type r? Do I appreciate all three for their respective accomplishments in their segments? Do I play a game of gently caress, marry, kill? It’s hard to really get at it when you just want to kill the sport but can’t decide if the si or type r is better in bed. The type r screams at me with loud paint. Bulging fenders. A wing. Hatch practicality because it’s a Honda. Brembos, drilled rotors, type r badges. R stands for race car. The interior of the type r is the nicest of the three. The si seats are nice but the type r seats are just that much better. It’s the same layout as the civic si, but also just that much better. No pedal dance for full disabling of nannies, just put the car in TYPE R mode and hold the VSA button for 5 seconds. Rev match downshifts. Race car. Everything is bigger and better in this car, even the motor. The 2.0t replaces the 1.5 and bumps out 306 horsepower instead of a pedestrian 205. The redline is bumped to a pedestrian by Honda standards 7000rpm. But it’s all just incremental. The type r never was the the nicest civic, that’s the EX. It’s the rawest, the type r-ist. The best handling. The fastest. I pull up to the line. I’ve been driving the sport for a while and the difference is immediately apparent. The stiffness of the springs and chassis. The raw power under foot. I get the go ahead, dial up to 2krpm for the launch like the sivic and the sport and roll out on clutch annnnd gently caress. The car doesn’t build boost in the same way the si and sport do, low rpm launches can melt the tires in those cars, the type r bogs and slowly putters off the line before it wakes up again and has significant amount of midrange grunt and power. Unlike the si and sport, this car really doesn’t drop off at higher rpms and pulls hard up to the redline. Honda has also done an amazing job of mitigating torque steer in this chassis and it tracks dead ahead through first and into second. I don’t recall if the type r has a rev hang from 1st to 2nd. The course is immediately into a slalom and the car feels amazing. With the stiff springs and suspension, you can just toss the front end. There’s always a limit to any car in a slalom where more forward speed just unearths slow transitional handling or under steering traits, but the Type R keeps on line and doesn’t exhibit any terminal push even with maintenance throttle. The rear has a nice looseness compared to the front, it doesn’t really step out but it comes along for the ride very well. The slalom ends into a braking zone and the brakes on the car are fantastic too. One thing I hate about the si and sport is the brakes are not great, the type r isn’t the worlds most perfect brakes but they’re also actually competent and there was no funkiness hauling the car down from speed. A tight 180 turn around comes up and the rear of the car skips. I think the race suspension setting may actually be a bit stiff for some surfaces. But exiting also feels great, power down, no torque steer, just a solid turbo shove in the seat into the next element where the car can be chucked around. In sweepers the car feels amazing too, the front will push if overdriven and being fwd, there’s nothing to do but wait til it tracks back in line, but it is neutral and can just be tossed at things without regard for whether it will spin. All this sounds great, the Type R is the better car drivers car. And much like the si, better than most sports cars that cost a lot more. But this is where I can’t decide. The Type R just feels like a si cranked to 11, but that 11 isn’t super vastly different for 50% more msrp. The si can run 17” wheels whereas the type r is 19” minimum. From a purely autocross/dd perspective, the si makes more sense, 90% of the car for well under half the running costs. In the end I would gently caress the type r and marry the si. But in a few years when the si and I have broken up and the type r is available, I’ll still think about that awesome summer fling and how maybe I should give it another try. Muffinpox fucked around with this message at 02:28 on Oct 24, 2019 |
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Oct 24, 2019 02:25
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