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b_d posted:there's something weird about potemkin's kara cancels. 6K kara is lenient, at least 2 frames worth. So the startup on kara PB can be faster or slower depending on how bad your inputs are. At best it is 1 frame slower than the normal. Kara MFB adds extra landing frames, 6 more specifically. Forward megafist is not subject to that though, and kara canceling it something like doubles the range of the move.
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Jun 17, 2021 23:00
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 03:06 |
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Yeah it's a move specific thing as far as I know, the landing recovery animation itself becomes longer. Bizarre.
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Jun 17, 2021 23:30
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Glagha posted:Hammer fall break is like 14 frames which is within human reactable limits. You're just making it too obvious when you're going for a throw. Do it to people when they wake up after you've okid them a bit and/or go for like kara buster after a blocked garuda impact. If you really wanna surprise buster someone you're gonna have to hammer fall PRC in their face and then they probably won't react in time Hammerfall Break is 27F in this game. That is why it is so absolutely terrible compared to older games, where it was 15F. Dustloop had a bunch of completely made up BS in their frame data section for a while which is where I guess a lot of the confusion about stuff is coming from. Potemkin's at least appears to be updated to be slightly more correct now, although it's still missing random things like charged FDB having totally different properties on hit. b_d posted:ok, that makes sense for the throw. but for the megafist there's no general system reason why kara canceling into it would add recovery (esp. if it doesn't happen at all for forward megafist) so that's something they specifically programmed in, right? Also to follow up on this, KMFB is actually it's own move, so yes it was hard coded to be like that. It actually does more damage than the normal versions as well (80 vs 60). Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 15:32 on Jun 20, 2021 |
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Jun 20, 2021 15:19
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:Is it just me or Slide Head generating tension loving stupid? If Potemkin is just sitting back spamming that forever he should be getting negative penaltied, not rewarded. It's a 60 frame move that is wildly punishable on wiff from mid/full screen, it does 0 damage, and it doesn't even give a good enough knockdown from a distance to get any oki. On block it's neutral, which for Potemkin almost universally means he's at a disadvantage. Also it builds less meter over time than him just walking forward would. Glagha posted:I usually air throw people who try to jump it. Honestly you should never try to jump over giganter unless like, they're really giving you a huge opening up do so. The best thing you can do is usually just block it, it only has like 3 hits and then the move is over and Pot has nothing to show for it other than maybe he hammerfalls in and is now kinda close to you and MAYBE a little plus. Running away or jumping is usually letting pot get away with murder on that. The slidehead was certainly because a lot of the time people will just backdash or give up space to giganter and you can catch them and either make them eat the mirror, or just let you approach for free. If you block the 3-hit part of Giganter, Potemkin is mega plus on block and can start all his usual mixups including Garuda stuff. He has a lot of tools to get forward and force the mixups, like using Hammerfall to just push you out in between hits of the shield and be massively + on hammerfall block. It's best to go over it IF you have the tools or positioning to do so, but yes he can sj.H or Heat you to force you back into blocking it. Also, the shield has a maximum range so sometimes you can just back off it entirely and not deal with it all. Many characters can also just go under it, on reaction to punish, or using PRC to just get free pressure. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 18:19 on Aug 22, 2021 |
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Aug 22, 2021 17:43
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unimportantguy posted:This conversation really is bringing back to mind what someone said yesterday about how Potemkin's moves are all dumb as hell and that's the only reason he's good. Everything else he has other than Garuda and MFB are not even particularly good though, and even both of those have pretty huge glaring weaknesses you can exploit. His specials are very gutted in general. Also please for the love of god do not take that stupid matchup chart to mean anything, Pot v Milia isn't even a good matchup for Pot lmao. Also useful to know: His megafist SD is also based on spacing and meatyness, even the forward version can be + on block depending on how exactly you use it. If a Pot is using the move correctly and tapping your toes with it, he will likely be pretty close to 0 even with the forward versions. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 05:10 on Aug 24, 2021 |
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Aug 24, 2021 05:01
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:Afaik it used to be only throw punishable uncharged and safe/plus when charged so this is a big nerf if it's -7 or worse for Pot to hit c.S Charging the move doesn't change the hit/guard properties at all as far as I know. Also it appears to be -7 *at best* now, hitting higher up makes it more negative of course. So for example, Potemkin can always punish it with KPB on block now, and c.S works when it hits higher up. It seems quite awful. Anyway, Potemkin's 6K appears to have had 6F removed from recovery, so it can be -2 on block now but normally is just -6. Don't really see much use for the change yet but at least it'll be less awful on wiff I guess. Heat change, I don't know what the old gain was but it's about 15% RISC meter built and 15% super meter gained on block now. Gwyrgyn Blood fucked around with this message at 00:27 on Aug 28, 2021 |
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Aug 27, 2021 23:40
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Hyper Crab Tank posted:I mean I'd watched about maybe half of that, and the thing is, whenever Hotashi gets in the situation I'm describing (stuck in the corner), he either bursts out or gets smoked. Aside from a few instances of his opponent messing something up, that's pretty much all that happens. Hyper Crab Tank posted:I don't think FD helps - it pushes her just far enough out to make all my fast buttons not reach but she's still too plus for any of my slow long buttons to hit. I can honestly say I've never gotten 6P or 5K to work so permit me to be skeptical. YRC is one of the most powerful tools in general in this game, you're at +10 on hit which means you can get started right into offense with no question most of the time.
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Sep 11, 2021 22:17
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b_d posted:i go over to check if this has changed now and then. it's still up and the description even says "Even though it's highly punishable on a grounded opponent". it makes me feel crazy or stupid or like i'm playing a different version of the game. i want to bother people about this and make them demonstrate that it's -15 or fix the frame data but i'd have to go into a discord to do that so i'll have to settle for whining in here about it instead. You can reliably punish it with f.S 5H even from max distance, even on FD. It's the best choice if you're unsure of how close you are. It's also possible to punish from nearly max distance with KPB, which is the ideal choice. Likewise c.S if you are deep gives you big combos and is the easiest punish. 2K 2D also works, but the timing is tight because you need to catch her while her hurtbox is extended forward. That is all assuming you block it on the ground of course, it's like +3000 if you air block it so you just gotta deal.
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Sep 12, 2021 01:22
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b_d posted:i swear when i play my friend my instinct is to punish it with 5K and he's able to block it 90% of the time, and that's 2 frames faster than f.S. i know the hurtboxes are weird but if he's blocking that means it connected? ok now that i look at it i see 5K is hella active so maybe it whiffs entirely until her recovery is over and she blocks it super meaty. Pot's 5K doesn't have a ton of forward range so it's not a great option to punish with, f.S is a slower move but the hitbox is massive. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZnYhxbDiPg
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Sep 12, 2021 01:42
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b_d posted:potemkin can flick the explosion after blocking the sword which is ftw because somehow his return projectile is eaten by the explosion (?) and if ram hits a normal he gets counterhit. It's worse than you think because it's bugged or simply broken. Ram's sword throws count as both projectile and physical hits at the same time, so sometimes you will flick a hit of the sword and the physical part will simply negate the projectile immediately. But then depending on how exactly Pot's hurtbox collided with the sword, sometimes the projectile will go through the physical part and work normally instead. And it's entirely ambiguous which one will happen! You can influence it in Pot's favor at neutral by doing Kara FDB instead, but of course that's not an option during block strings, so you're just kind of SOL.
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Sep 14, 2021 01:45
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Madmarker posted:Hey did Pot get any buffs? His ground normals got better hurtboxes which means he might get clowned slightly less often at neutral, which is pretty good. And the change to Garuda from wall bounce to tumble may be a huge benefit for his mid pressure as well, if it lets you get oki on backdash hits instead of losing all momentum like you do now. Giganter mixups and pressure may or may not be good, it's hard to say, but the character sure as hell didn't need another way on offense to spend meter for more mixup options. Meanwhile he lost his only real reversal, none of his other defensive tools got buff, and universal dash plus better 2p/2K is going to gently caress him pretty hard. Reduced damage on his two most used moves (Garuda does less damage and thus less chip), megafist damage reduced which means kMFB combos are extremely questionable as to if they will be of use at all. Also his worst matchup GL got a huge laundry list of buffs so please enjoy playing that absolute pile of misery. Overall it sounds like a really bad patch for him, but you never know until you see just how big the changes are to hitboxes/damage/etc.
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Jun 8, 2022 17:20
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Giganter is bad sure but it absolutely gets a lot of use as a reversal even still. And you know, if you were going to change the move anyway, maybe the right idea would have to just make it ... you know, not +9 after super flash, instead of removing it as an option entirely.
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Jun 8, 2022 17:31
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Yes because absolutely what Potemkin in Strive needs is better offensive pressure tools and worse defensive tools. Right. Sure.
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Jun 8, 2022 17:40
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Glagha posted:Or what you mean is, better offensive pressure tools and literally the same defensive tools because good potemkins never use giganter because it's bad. So they took the character who had a super that had one purpose that it was kind of useless at, and made it do something very useful instead. Potemkin is a strong offense, weak defense character. This is normal. Zato also doesn't have like, ANY defensive options and doesn't even have a bad reversal and he's a very strong character. Sometimes characters don't get DPs and this is okay. Also they are buffing Potemkin's neutral by changing the hurtboxes on some of his big normals so he should hopefully be able to prevent himself from getting INTO those situations better now. No, because good players "literally" do use the move defensively. FAB and Snake Eyes are two examples off the top of my head. Here is a 5 minute long recent-ish match video where FAB uses the thing twice defensively and does fine for it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBGiaTQY74Y I use the thing myself fairly often for the same purposes, generally to challenge slower startup Unless you believe that offense cannot start until you have 50% meter, or that nobody ever attacks from ranges farther than a c.S, Giganter is absolutely a functional invulnerable tool despite being +9.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:00
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Pyswagoras posted:I see people talk about PRC HPB being like a reversal option for Pot, but I haven't been able to find anything saying what that is exactly. Can anyone explain it to me? You PRC the startup of Heavenly before it goes active, you get to keep up to 11 frames of invuln and it only costs 50% meter. It's useful for dodging through some stuff that doesn't have big active frames, but it's also a very big risk obviously. The main advantage is you can forward drift with the RC so you can escape from some otherwise annoying situations with it, and it has slightly more invuln than a backdash.
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Jun 8, 2022 18:05
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:It's literally not a risk at all. It's completely unpunishable. You can block instantly as soon as the RC ends so even if you're still inside a hugely-active meaty you're safe as long as you hold back. Faust does this too, and technically Goldlewis can 1080 PRC for tons of wakeup iframes but I haven't seen many use it. Anyone with an invincible-startup super can do it but the longer the startup before superflash the easier and more useful it is. The RC itself is vulnerable though, as soon as you startup the PRC you will lose invuln and eat a CH if something is active on you. So any sufficiently active move, or slightly delayed oki, or slightly delayed block string for example, it will lose to and most likely eat a big combo. Also many characters have simple OS tools against it. For example you can do S S and hold up, if Pote blocks you will get c.S f.S, and if you wiff you will get a jump, same goes for any JCable chain of course. Which works on both the slow and fast cancel versions, and is quite lenient since the total time for HPB->RC->PB is quite long (upwards of ~21F) and the active+recovery of c.S are generally quite short. So like, it's good, but it's got a lot of risk even still.
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Jun 8, 2022 19:49
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RPATDO_LAMD posted:If you get blown up for doing HPB RC Potbuster, it's the potbuster that was risky, not the HPB RC. You can choose a lot of high commitment options out of it but you can also do low commitment stuff like waiting a bit and using the PRC slow to react to what they did. If you do HPB PRC into do-nothing and they jumped, you should be able to get a free airblocked heat knuckle into a mixup. Yeah true. Or just reaction c.S Garuda should blow up a whole lot of things really well too, and stop jump OSs.
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Jun 8, 2022 21:07
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Potemkin's Megafist damage nerf only applies to forward and regular backward (60 -> 50). So kMFB still does as much damage as before (Still 80). Garuda went from 73 to 63 damage.
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Jun 10, 2022 16:14
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Garuda's new hit effect causes a long duration tumble, which means you can combo off it near the corner, into kMFB or another Garuda even. Vs backdash you can get 5K into loops. I dunno how it will stack up against other options, but it seems pretty good so. https://i.imgur.com/MQL7yr0.mp4 Mid screen Garuda hit vs Backdash gives a long enough knockdown that you can chase after it, though it's like absolute max distance oki. Big oof and all that. https://i.imgur.com/PodLSIn.mp4
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Jun 10, 2022 17:31
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| # ¿ Apr 24, 2024 03:06 |
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Also for some reason when you quick cancel PRC, not only does it not cost the full bar but it also doesn't give you tension penalty at all. So if you do PRC -> Buster and it connects, it only ends up costing like 20% meter.
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Jun 10, 2022 20:28
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