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MonsterEnvy posted:Orcs were changed to being an always available common species choice as of 9 days ago. Only for Pathfinder Society games, which are the Paizo equivalent of the D&D Adventurer's League. They're still uncommon in general. Besides, rarity in pathfinder 2 is really an explicit note to ask your DM before using it, at least on the player end of things. Sometimes it's because it's a gigantic headache for a DM to handle (like a character being an amnesiac), but most of the time, it's just, well, how rare something is. The game is basically saying "yeah you can be the sapient reflection of an anthropomorphic pug, but both of those are rare as all hell, don't just take them on the assumption that they fit in great for the setting, make your DM's life easier by letting her veto them immediately."
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Jan 30, 2023 12:47
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Dawgstar posted:Oh boy! Wait until you get to the first Werewolf Tribebook! It's the Black Furies! Brucatos gets to hold forth on feminism! Thanks, I hate it!
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Jan 30, 2023 16:21
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 Pathfinder Core Rulebook, Second Edition, part five: Backgrounds & Languages Backgrounds as a mechanic in D&D arguably showed in 2nd edition with kits, packages of fluff, skills, and maybe special powers and restrictions. Your choice of being an amazon, barbarian, noble, peasant, or something else could have far reaching effects... or maybe not. A kit's power level could vary wildly, often "balanced" by role-playing restrictions. The myrmidon was a professional soldier who got a free weapon specialization, but they might have to fulfill their military obligations (which to me sounds like either the DM splits the party and has to come up with two adventures, or they use the military to direct the PCs on adventure, "Soldier, you need to do this task! Take some friends with you!"). The folk hero received bonuses to reaction rolls in their home area, but had severe limits to the value of items they could own. Backgrounds came in to 4th edition with the Player's Handbook 2, and also in Dragon magazine. The Dragon backgrounds tied in to the Scales of War adventure path, giving a brief outline of a role the character could come from, and provided skill bonuses, or things like getting 4 death saves, or being able to use your highest stat to determine HP instead of constitution. The PHB2 backgrounds (the list of which would get expanded with later releases) either gave a +2 to one of two skills, or the ability to train in one of the skills. With 5th edition, backgrounds became a major piece of your character. Each background provided training in some skills, a bit of equipment and starting money, and a minor special ability, like having a second identity established, or being able to find food and water for yourself and your companions. Additionally, they offered suggestions for shaping your personality. You could choose or roll a personality trait, an ideal, a bond, and a flaw. If you played in accordance with these, the DM was supposed to grant inspiration. In Pathfinder 2E, backgrounds are an important part of character creation... but also unnecessary. They provide a fixed and a free ability boost (the fixed does offer two choices), training in a skill and a lore, and a skill feat. Which is useful, but mechanically the same could have been accomplished by just giving a character two more boosts, and have them pick an addition skill, lore and skill feat (which doesn't appear to. There are more than 30 backgrounds offered here, but at best they provide just a few lines explaining what you might have done before adventuring and why you might have started adventuring. Maybe someone is getting deep into their character here, but I think more oft it's deciding if survival or intimidation is better for your fighter, and that's why you'll have been a bounty hunter or warrior. The backgrounds can even be limiting; if I view my fighter as a street tough, shaking people down and providing muscle, Criminal looks like the right choice, except the training in Stealth skill isn't going to be much use in heavy armor. With 5e, the rules explicitly state that you can customize them. Swap out skills, change the starting gear to coin, mix and match traits or features, or just build one of your own. While it would make sense for Pathfinder to allow that, especially considering how simple the backgrounds are, it's not stated. Commenters have pointed out that there are now around 150 backgrounds, so if you want to delve into those, you can problem find the exact set of boosts, feats, and skills that you want. Backgrounds, they're fine. Languages For some campaigns, languages are great, clever players can learn more through mastery of languages. For others, they're a pain, leading to quizzing players to see if anyone picked up goblin and can understand the overheard conversation, or having your giant warlord speak in broken common because you were up half the night writing his monologue, and you're not going to let ignorant characters deprive you of delivering it. You get additional languages based on your intelligence modifier, and will gain or lose if that goes up or down. There are common languages (not to be confused with the common tongue, which is a common language and assumed spoken by all PCs), uncommon languages, and secret languages. Common are your ancestral tongues, along with goblin, jotun (giants), and orcish, and undercommon (the common tongue of the underdark). Uncommon covers languages from the inner and outer planes, so elementals and demons/devils/angels, along with gnoll, and some new ones, like Aklo, spoken by derro and evil fey, necril, the language of ghouls and intelligent undead, and shadowtongue, from the Shadow Plane. The only secret language is Druidic, only spoken by druids and they won't teach non-druids. If there are any other secret languages, well, they're a secret. Thieves' Cant is a surprising deletion. We're also told there can be regional languages, and you might find some places where the common tongue is not your common tongue. Which makes sense, but can be frustrating to play. There are skill feats for Reading Lips and Sign Language, though it suggests that a character who is hard of hearing or unable to speak should start with these. Next time, it's back to school with the classes. Can't wait to see the innovation from building your own RPG from the ground up! srhall79 fucked around with this message at 09:12 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 2, 2023 10:21
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srhall79 posted:In Pathfinder 2E, backgrounds are an important part of character creation... but also unnecessary. They provide a fixed and a free ability boost (the fixed does offer two choices), training in a skill and a lore, and a skill feat. Which is useful, but mechanically the same could have been accomplished by just giving a character two more boosts, and have them pick an addition skill, lore and skill feat (which doesn't appear to. There are more than 30 backgrounds offered here, but at best they provide just a few lines explaining what you might have done before adventuring and why you might have started adventuring. Maybe someone is getting deep into their character here, but I think more oft it's deciding if survival or intimidation is better for your fighter, and that's why you'll have been a bounty hunter or warrior. The backgrounds can even be limiting; if I view my fighter as a street tough, shaking people down and providing muscle, Criminal looks like the right choice, except the training in Stealth skill isn't going to be much use in heavy armor. Yeah, all the backgrounds are the same deal, and like you say, there is absolutely zero reason why it's a step besides "two boosts, two skills, one skill feat in one of them". The core book has 30-something of them, and the SRD is up to the 150s, and it's nothing that couldn't be achieved with a short segment on using them as guidelines and themes. Like "A bounty hunter who later became an adventurer may be experienced in Survival, Diplomacy, or even Society, depending on the particulars of their area of expertise", or something like that. I guess why they did it this way, it's more Content to sell (theoretically), but it bugs me a little that a squire (for example) can't pick Medicine (to do first aid on their knight), or Crafting (repairs). Not that 5e doesn't do something similar, but the ability-benefit is a lot more flavour than just the feat, and the ideals etc are a nice bit of direction, even if you don't need them explicitly For my sample character when first reading the book, I was given the prompt "Elf warrior" as something boring to spice up, and as soon as I saw Cavern Elf I knew his gimmick, he was born on a mountain, raised in a cave. Emissary was absolutely pointless for him, but it did fit the gimmick (trucking or at least carting), so I had to make up for it, rather than not worry about it. (It did take me a while to make that character, partially due to cringing at the goblin description)
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Feb 2, 2023 13:01
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srhall79 posted:With 5th edition, backgrounds became a major piece of your character. Each background provided training in some skills, a bit of equipment and starting money, and a minor special ability, like having a second identity established, or being able to find food and water for yourself and your companions. Additionally, they offered suggestions for shaping your personality. You could choose or roll a personality trait, an ideal, a bond, and a flaw. If you played in accordance with these, the DM was supposed to grant inspiration. Serperoth posted:Yeah, all the backgrounds are the same deal, and like you say, there is absolutely zero reason why it's a step besides "two boosts, two skills, one skill feat in one of them". The core book has 30-something of them, and the SRD is up to the 150s, and it's nothing that couldn't be achieved with a short segment on using them as guidelines and themes. Like "A bounty hunter who later became an adventurer may be experienced in Survival, Diplomacy, or even Society, depending on the particulars of their area of expertise", or something like that. I checked and this is not an option for PF2E, or at least it's not in the Backgrounds section itself. You can swap out something that gets doubled up but you can't fully customise. So 5E backgrounds are both more interesting, containing a unique gimmick, and more customisable to your actual needs, while still providing a quick and easy "I'm a sailor" starting point. Even if they didn't have the unique gimmick it's useful splitting up your choices; it's easier to make choices when they're broken down into discrete chunks. "I choose two skills from this list, and then I get these two skills for being a farmhand, do I want to change one?" is much less of a mental load than "Choose four skills from this list of big list, choose X things from the complete list of languages and tool proficiencies". 5E iterated on something from previous editions and significantly improved it through baking it into character creation and formalising the template. PF2E took a massive step back from the 5E approach probably, as you said, so they could sell "Pirate! It's sailor but with intimidate!" as "content". Splicer fucked around with this message at 14:03 on Feb 2, 2023 |
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Feb 2, 2023 14:00
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Splicer posted:In my ongoing campaign to be more vocal about what 5e does right, 5E backgrounds are also explicitly modular. If you want to take everything about City Watch except you want to swap one of the skills for Diplomacy and one of the languages for Thieves Tools and the special background feature for the one from Sailor it says you're allowed right there at the start of the section. I don't even love 5e as much, but if anything PF2e is helping me like it more. I didn't even remember the mix-and-match option, but the biggest part is that it's actually unique and flavourful, rather than just an extra step to count some more beans. It's helped by 5e's simpler skill system too, but mostly I feel it's just that there's fewer with bigger distinctions between them. 5e PHB gives you 19 backgrounds to choose from, including some doubled up (like Sailor and its "sub-background" Pirate)
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Feb 2, 2023 14:29
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joylessdivision posted:And just to get this poo poo wrapped up: One thing that keeps tripping me up is that I don't understand the geography and architecture of the underworld. Is Stygia roughly Europe or what? Are Necropolii like Wayne Barlowe poo poo or Constantine-movie Hell (hosed up reflection of the same spot back in the real world)? If Tempest is like Here There Be Dragons sea separating Points of Light, when does the land give way to sea? What makes a place have its underworld version instead of just being Tempest?
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Feb 2, 2023 14:34
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JcDent posted:One thing that keeps tripping me up is that I don't understand the geography and architecture of the underworld. The Shadowlands are a "dark reflection" realm adjacent to the Skinlands of the living. Necropoli are communities of wraiths in the Shadowlands. The Underworld proper is a series of islands of stability in a roiling sea of wicked chaos known as the Tempest, which has some safer routes through it that can be navigated but it's pretty mutable. Stygia is one of those islands of stability and is indeed mainly connected to "the West", then there's I think one for "Asia, you know the one I mean" and then one for India-ish, South America and Africa. The non-Western parts of Wraith are very underdeveloped compared to the other lines, though there are a few books from the 90s dedicated to the Dark Kingdom of Jade. (20th Anniversary edition did an admirable job expanding on and toning down the racism of the non-Stygia Underworld.) Islands in the Tempest tend to accumulate and get crowded very fast by a mishmash of roughly the same cultures over millennia. So Stygia is a jumbled mass of "Western" city. The islands can still be big enough that there's like wilderness and rivers outside, sometimes clear and sometimes covered by the storms of the Tempest. The Tempest itself is sort of a combination storm/sea that's where all the bad stuff that wants to eat you mostly unlives. Then there's the Labyrinth and Oblivion where the dead god-monsters sleep surrounded by mad specters. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 14:52 on Feb 2, 2023 |
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Feb 2, 2023 14:43
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Serperoth posted:I don't even love 5e as much, but if anything PF2e is helping me like it more. I didn't even remember the mix-and-match option, but the biggest part is that it's actually unique and flavourful, rather than just an extra step to count some more beans. It's helped by 5e's simpler skill system too, but mostly I feel it's just that there's fewer with bigger distinctions between them. 5e PHB gives you 19 backgrounds to choose from, including some doubled up (like Sailor and its "sub-background" Pirate)
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Feb 2, 2023 15:05
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That Old Tree posted:The Shadowlands are a "dark reflection" realm adjacent to the Skinlands of the living. Necropoli are communities of wraiths in the Shadowlands. The Underworld proper is a series of islands of stability in a roiling sea of wicked chaos known as the Tempest, which has some safer routes through it that can be navigated but it's pretty mutable. Yup this. I'm pretty sure the corebook uses a couple of different metaphors to describe the underworld but the islands one was the one I personally latched onto because it made it slightly easier to visualize this stuff. I'm pretty sure Oblivion isn't really a place with monster in it, so much as its the end of all things, like a black hole where once you get sucked in, you cease to be. The Tempest and the Labyrinth absolutely are filled with Spectres and Malfeans who want to chew on your soul or turn them into one of them.
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Feb 2, 2023 15:11
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Yeah, the Shadowlands are 'on' the Tempest even if they're not really 'above' the Tempest, so to speak. The Midnight Express (heh) can travel from Atlanta's Necropolis to Stygia every night at midnight without issue even though it doesn't go 'down' because to quote MST3K's Mike Nelson "Space is warped and time is bendable." That said Nihils (the holes that barf up Specters) are, well, holes in the ground which is why you can think of Stygia/Tempest/etc 'below' the Shadowlands. What I had the hardest time visualizing were the edges of the stable places in the Tempest. If you wander far enough in any direction not along one the Styx or other permanent-ish paths do you just see a permanent storm wall for lack of a better term? I'm still not sure but that's sort of how I picture it now.
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Feb 2, 2023 15:42
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srhall79 posted:The PHB2 backgrounds (the list of which would get expanded with later releases) either gave a +2 to one of two skills, or training in one of the skills. Close, but it granted either a bonus or the option to train it as if it were a class skill (so you could train Endurance even though you were a wizard, using one of your wizard skill picks). The option to have an off-class skill trained (for the +5 bonus that entails) cost a feat, and Player's Handbook 2 wasn't there to just hand out a free feat to everyone that bought it or subscribed to D&D Insider. It's neat seeing Pathfinder 2nd edition. It's a shame Dreamscarred Press isn't around to publish additional material for it.
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Feb 2, 2023 15:59
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Iron Heart posted:Close, but it granted either a bonus or the option to train it as if it were a class skill (so you could train Endurance even though you were a wizard, using one of your wizard skill picks). The option to have an off-class skill trained (for the +5 bonus that entails) cost a feat, and Player's Handbook 2 wasn't there to just hand out a free feat to everyone that bought it or subscribed to D&D Insider.
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Feb 2, 2023 16:22
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It was very funny how every charop guide told you to find some way to justify playing a Sohei, since it gives you a minor action attack. Breaking the Action Economy Uber Alles.
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Feb 2, 2023 16:59
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joylessdivision posted:Yup this. I'm pretty sure the corebook uses a couple of different metaphors to describe the underworld but the islands one was the one I personally latched onto because it made it slightly easier to visualize this stuff. From what I recall Oblivion is a discrete thing with a location, but I didn't mean to describe it as a place, just a thing in the Labyrinth. Although didn't Demon the Fallen end up saying that the prison of the fallen angels was what Oblivion really was?
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Feb 2, 2023 17:52
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That Old Tree posted:From what I recall Oblivion is a discrete thing with a location, but I didn't mean to describe it as a place, just a thing in the Labyrinth. There's the Mouth of Oblivion, I think it's called, which is located at the center and bottom despite the Labyrinth not really having either. As for the other part, that's the Abyss. (There's a couple different Abysses.)
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Feb 2, 2023 18:26
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srhall79 posted:
25ft movement is the standard for small and medium critters, so there’s no penalty for little guys here. The big deal with the Sickened condition is that it prevents you from consuming potions and similar things — so a relatively innocuous fart cloud effect can potentially have deadly consequences if you need to quaff a miscible. After all the things that have been meticulously excised from Pathfinder to make it more wholesome and move away from the extra edgy origins, it boggles my mind that goblins are now even more prominent, and still explicitly stated to love torturing animals, eating people, and doing all the other hosed up things that used to just fade into the background radiation of the setting’s rape ogres, rapist iconic, etc, etc. The artwork for the new goblin iconic is also intensely viscerally unpleasant to look at, but I admit that’s subjective on my end. Skellybones fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Feb 2, 2023 |
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Feb 2, 2023 18:40
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Splicer posted:In my ongoing campaign to be more vocal about what 5e does right, 5E backgrounds are also explicitly modular. If you want to take everything about City Watch except you want to swap one of the skills for Diplomacy and one of the languages for Thieves Tools and the special background feature for the one from Sailor it says you're allowed right there at the start of the section. Oh yeah, I may go back and edit that in, that while 5e looks rigid, you're given explicit permission to mix and match, or just create a new background. And while there are more backgrounds in products, I feel the traits and flaws gives some reason for existing. I was also checking if PF2 allowed that, but didn't see a mention. Though if there are now 150 backgrounds, it seems you could find any skill-feat combo.
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Feb 2, 2023 19:13
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That Old Tree posted:From what I recall Oblivion is a discrete thing with a location, but I didn't mean to describe it as a place, just a thing in the Labyrinth. Ah my mistake. Also I literally know nothing about Demon: The Fallen other than Lucifer and (I think Caine?) meet in a diner and have a chat in the fiction for the ToJ "gently caress it here's endings for everything that isn't the big 3" book. I'm actually looking forward to reading Demon and Orpheus when I get to them. Reckoning less so because I've read a chunk of that core and oof that conspiracy poo poo does not feel great in a world where Qanon is a thing.
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Feb 2, 2023 19:15
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Iron Heart posted:Close, but it granted either a bonus or the option to train it as if it were a class skill (so you could train Endurance even though you were a wizard, using one of your wizard skill picks). The option to have an off-class skill trained (for the +5 bonus that entails) cost a feat, and Player's Handbook 2 wasn't there to just hand out a free feat to everyone that bought it or subscribed to D&D Insider.
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Feb 2, 2023 19:18
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joylessdivision posted:Ah my mistake. Demon is a weird one. It's Christopher Walken In Prophecy: the Game, with some really good fiction (thanks Stolze), plus a remarkably valiant but doomed effort to reconcile the sprawling WoD cosmology. Also it's famously one of the times an author who actually knows about probabilities was like "listen you freaks you have to actually do math and figure out what your dice are really doing" but still had incredibly busted rules. Each subsplat gets their own special power progression, where you're spending the same xp so one guy talks to animals, one guy throws fireballs, and one guy can balance on narrow surfaces real good. Very interesting last gasp of 90s White Wolf. Cool aesthetic, not nearly as "F you God" as you might expect, but still very Christian default despite trying to pull a multilayered reality thing. That Old Tree fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Feb 2, 2023 |
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Feb 2, 2023 20:34
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Orpheus was the last WoD title published before the ToJ reboot, right?
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Feb 2, 2023 20:44
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YggdrasilTM posted:Orpheus was the last WoD title published before the ToJ reboot, right? I believe that Orpheus was released after Wraith ended and was part of the lead up to Hunter being released. Also I think Demon might have been the last game to come out before TOJ, or maybe "Mummy: The Third time we're trying this poo poo" To the best of my memory the TOJ didn't kick off until 2004 when the universe officially ended and the nWod was born either later that year or the next.
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Feb 2, 2023 21:02
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Will OP kickstarter nWOD20?
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Feb 2, 2023 21:08
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Nessus posted:Will OP kickstarter nWOD20? That's probably in Paradox's hands and not OP's so I kinda doubt it. Not to mention OP still has a few oWod20 books on the slate for release still and I think there's a couple of nWoD titles in the pipeline too.  publish the Werewolf version of Becketts Jyhad Diary already!
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Feb 2, 2023 21:17
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Nessus posted:Will OP kickstarter nWOD20? Doubtful. Paradox doesn't want  brand confusion.
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Feb 2, 2023 22:36
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joylessdivision posted:I believe that Orpheus was released after Wraith ended and was part of the lead up to Hunter being released. Also I think Demon might have been the last game to come out before TOJ, or maybe "Mummy: The Third time we're trying this poo poo" Hunter came out in 1999, Mummy: the "This time we aren't a weird vampire thing" was 2001. Demon was 2002. Orpheus was released in 2003 right before TOJ, and since it was contemporaneous it never got a TOJ Scenario. Dawgstar posted:Doubtful. Paradox doesn't want Yeah, Swedracula kind of let nWoD get away with anything it wanted via benign neglect, but he was starting to gently caress with the 20th anniversary lines in some really gross ways. Now that Paradox is paying attention they're holding both licenses much closer to the chest. Kurieg fucked around with this message at 05:20 on Feb 3, 2023 |
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Feb 3, 2023 05:17
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Skellybones posted:After all the things that have been meticulously excised from Pathfinder to make it more wholesome and move away from the extra edgy origins, it boggles my mind that goblins are now even more prominent, and still explicitly stated to love torturing animals, eating people, and doing all the other hosed up things that used to just fade into the background radiation of the setting’s rape ogres, rapist iconic, etc, etc. I give them that they have put some thought into why goblins are a PC race now instead of always evil sword fodder in the main setting. Basically thanks to all the 1e adventures killing goblins (and a war in one of the regions where they're most prominent which they lost) they took enough casualties to the adults that there's a generation of goblin kids who've basically grown up without being taught to be assholes so they're starting to branch out more. Add in one of the major goddesses in the setting representing the sun (AKA fire) and redemption taking an interest, and several goblin groups managing to make themselves useful to various adventurer-friendly interest groups, and you got some logical reasons for many of them to be good/neutral adventurers who aren't slaughtered on sight in civilization (while having some leftover old school ones still causing trouble, but less "evil horde" more "local warband"). Also their bad traits tend to be played for laughs now instead of edge; goblins supposedly still hate dogs, but one of the intro 2e adventures ("We Be Heroes", with a full goblin party) has a pregen druid with a "wolf" companion:  And rather than have her be an outcast, they just say all the goblins give her very strange looks despite her constantly insisting "Mitzi" is a wolf. But all that admittedly isn't in the main book, so yeah, didn't do so hot there differentiating them from 1e's edgy goblins. There's a definite "wacky mayhem" vibe they get, though they aren't encouraged to be kender-level disruptive in any of the setting stuff I can think of, thank God. quote:The artwork for the new goblin iconic is also intensely viscerally unpleasant to look at, but I admit that’s subjective on my end. They definitely don't get any prettier, though I rather enjoy that one's art in the alchemist section:  srhall79 posted:Humans have ethnicities, which we'll learn about in 400 pages. Right now, I just think, great, diversity is a wonderful thing... but why don't dwarves or elves have ethnicities? If we're going to delve into differences between humans from different parts, why aren't their different elves? A mystery we'll see if they solve. They do actually, but again they fail to do so in this book for some reason. I kind of wonder why they didn't do a better job with these things in the core; lack of room, still keeping too much 1e stuff, or were they trying to keep Pathfinder 2e "generic" in the core book? But the sections on the "normal races" in the Golarian-specific Lost Omens Character Guide go into lots of ethnicities for more than humans (though they get a bunch there too), and the Mwangi region book (Golarian's Africa equivalent-ish; yes, there are black elves/dwarves/halflings and more) has lots of discussions on the local elves/dwarves/etc. All of these tend to be quite different culturally from the ones in the more "European" regions, and not always in "thinly veiled copy of real life culture" form either.
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Feb 3, 2023 07:31
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Goblins being a core heritage made a very specific subset of the Paizo community very very upset, and was overall an extremely good move. Wacky little guys are good.
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Feb 3, 2023 07:44
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Kurieg posted:PF2e is one of those games where character creation is really hard to grok until you get something like Pathbuilder holding your hand through it and suddenly everything makes sense. The function of PF2e is to have something that can be suggested to break the deathgrip of DnD on your group by being very close, but better (martials have something to do!). It failed in my group after our newbie GM complained that no, this is too much reading. Welp.
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Feb 3, 2023 08:52
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I was going off the bestiary description of goblins as a whole, which does say that the vast majority of goblins are a barely-sentient instinctive force of destruction that eat babies, burn houses, and torment animals for no reason other than because they can, but still tries to play them off as cute and fun somehow. I think there was 1e stuff about how that’s how goblins innately are and they can’t be raised or taught differently, but they’ve evidently changed their minds on that. There does seem to be a strong strain of Kender energy running through their design — the player goblin is supposed to perform wacky antics, set things on fire, eat garbage, etc, and you’re not supposed to get mad at them because they’re so carefree and whimsical, and they also have bad brains that mean they don’t understand the consequences of their actions. I think being Kender-like was the intended goal of goblins in 1e too, just with the expectation that the player would torture puppies to death. It’s really weird how it all fits together, or doesn’t.
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Feb 3, 2023 11:56
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America is entering Goblin Mode.
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Feb 3, 2023 15:39
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I mean given one of the reasons for the American revolution was 'we can't murder and rob quite as many of the people living around us as we would like to' perhaps it just never LEFT goblin mode.
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Feb 3, 2023 17:39
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Ehh, goblins became second tier in Pathfinder after kobolds became a choice.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:05
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MadDogMike posted:I give them that they have put some thought into why goblins are a PC race now instead of always evil sword fodder in the main setting. Basically thanks to all the 1e adventures killing goblins (and a war in one of the regions where they're most prominent which they lost) they took enough casualties to the adults that there's a generation of goblin kids who've basically grown up without being taught to be assholes so they're starting to branch out more.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:15
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Kill the Goblin, Save the....Goblin.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:23
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Drakyn posted:I mean given one of the reasons for the American revolution was 'we can't murder and rob quite as many of the people living around us as we would like to' perhaps it just never LEFT goblin mode.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:27
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Yeah given goblins already existing hero god thing, it would have been a lot simpler and less problematic to just say that a few not-rear end in a top hat goblins ascended to hero god status and did good internally.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:34
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"If you think about it you should be thanking me for killing dozens if not hundreds of your kind." "What?" "Not that I'd ask you to." "I don't..." *pointedly gripping pommel* "It means more when it's spontaneous."
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Feb 3, 2023 18:40
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I remember in Iron Kingdoms they dealt with it thusly: Goblins were a socially integrated minority in at least two of the four big kingdoms and recognized as intelligent beings comparable to humans and dwarfs (the most common sorts) by basically every state institution. There ya go buddy, they can still be assholes just like you can still get human bandits. They did the same with what I believe were meant to be orc-likes but specifically to dwarfs, to the point where a common pairing was "dwarf abroad on some business and his ogrun yojimbo." But in general I thought Iron Kingdoms did this well; you can recognize the original point of the D&D races, but they're all very culturally and socially bound into their roles.
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Feb 3, 2023 18:42
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