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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Ratoslov posted:

Yeah, I'll freely admit that Shadowrun has always been extremely fuzzy on the question of why you are Shadowrunning and why Shadowrunners exist rather than doing something more profitable like running small crime syndicates or selling hand-knitted scarves on Ebaybutfuture.

Ah, I see you're familiar with Freemarket.

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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

PurpleXVI posted:

Gnomes are now Tinker Gnomes, which largely means they've been infested by a terrible strain of lolsorandom monkeycheese 90's comedy. You see, because Tinker Gnomes build things, but sometimes they don't work, and it leads to wacky!!!!!! consequences!

'cause it'd be a real shame if these little assholes who are apparently smart enough to invent gunpowder and cannons actually contributed something other than slapstick comedy to the setting. They've a couple of potentially useful special items, but all of them backfire "comically" about as often as they do anything handy, meaning they're basically Skaven but it's not supposed to be funny when they blow their own hands off, and the game, of course, has no actual rules(that I can see or find anywhere) for making your own wacky inventions of any kind. This kind of relegates them to an unfun NPC backwater.

Rules for making gnomish inventions were added in the later "Dragonlance Adventures" supplement. I can't remember perfectly - something about a backfire chance that went down as you leveled and up with the complexity of the invention?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

DAD LOST MY IPOD posted:

The Great Modron March Part 10: Way Under the Mountain

Oh god the modrons remember random wizard bullshit! That was the only reason most wizard bullshit wasn't dangerous!

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Night10194 posted:

For stuff that claims you want to avoid unnecessary combat, the published adventures sure do end in combat most of the time. It's one of the reasons I pay attention to characters' combat stats as much as I do; it's just going to come up. You can be more certain of it than anything else in a published scenario.

You'd think someone like Johan or Shanna would have a ton to do, but whole chapters will pass where the spy and thief are just kinda lovely second line fighters.

E: Part of it is simple: If players actually used investigative or spying skills during most of these chapters, Thousand Thrones would fall apart because investigation is actually really hard to write well and their solution is always a linear trail of clues with no diversion.

Have you got access to a published adventure that does investigation well, or is that a general failing of the studio? It sounds like you might need a break after this one.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

So you talk about how there's all this travail and still no treasure, and I have a couple of questions: are there a lot of good things a big pile of treasure can actually get you in the engine, and is there any common adversary who's likely to actually have treasure?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Night10194 posted:

Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay 2e: Plundered Vaults

God save you, Night. You are credit to team.

So did people just kind of assume that somewhere out there was a bog-standard fantasy adventure where the PCs help bail a hamlet out of its overwhelming problems that are nonetheless exactly as they seem? And then all go "well, that already exists out there somewhere, obviously, so let's change things up!"

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Night10194 posted:

He's also talking to the angry ghost of his brother through the power of the evil cocaine cave, which is telling him to get the most metal possible revenge on Henri-Phillipe

Are angry ghosts, like, a known thing in the setting? You'd think that would put a bit of a brake on the secret murders.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Night10194 posted:

It's a good work that engages well with the material and themes that already exist in Bretonnia. I think it's overall the best of the WHFRP published adventures, and I wish more of them were about you like it is.

The End

I wouldn't call it an investigation-based adventure as much as an adventure capable of being investigated, but it seems like a very good published adventure that respects what the PCs can do.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Cooked Auto posted:

But in reality there really is absolutely nothing worth salvaging from this adventure. The characters are atrociously bad, the plot is not there, the encounters are mean and spiteful, the resolution is atrocious and in the end the PC’s barely get paid too. What a great way to introduce people to this game and its setting and to make them want to play this, am I right?
Something as simple as a trip into a random Forbidden Zone would be much better than this massive trash fire we got instead. For how much the game touts about making the players feel like cool badasses and adventurers, this thing demolishes that notion completely and is a massive blesh best torn out from the book and thrown away.

Ah, these are rules written by someone who doesn't use rules to play RPGs. They just make whatever happen and make noises that sound like rules being followed. This makes it hard for them to write down transmittable expressions of these rules, because when they try to match them up to the game as they played it, they have no idea how what they wrote down actually corresponds to what happened.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Falconier111 posted:

We get told +3 is the highest a stat can go. I can’t tell if that includes pluses on rolls.

It does not include plusses on rolls; they go on top. This is why getting those plusses is kind of a big deal in original Apocalypse World - there are, like, two moves to do it spread across all the playbooks; Glitter Hearts is being a little too free with handing them out.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry


That is much better put-together than I was expecting.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Night10194 posted:

It's also almost certainly after-the-fact rear end-covering. "Oh yeah we totally MEANT to design these to be dumb and bad!" is the kind of thing you say because not admitting you're just bad at designing them is somehow more important than how insanely dumb that sounds.

No, Monte Cook really is that insanely dumb. He has no idea that mechanics actually mean things by themselves, rather than only meaning the things the game designer explicitly tells the players that they mean. This is why he tried to apply the Timmy/Johnny/Spike trichotomy for players of a competitive game to the options available to players in a cooperative game. Yeah, Timmy Fighter's real happy when his Improved Critical goes off despite it not even being 1 more point of damage on average, and Spike Druid is swinging for more as a giant ape and casting spells besides, but when they all get wiped out by giants because the GM was trying to take down a party full of Spikes and all the Timmys just got crushed, everybody loses equally! Nobody gets to come back next week with the same 10th-level characters and try again!

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Lemony posted:

The game was published in 2001, and it is very evident. It runs on the BEER! engine, which I have never encountered before or since. I haven't actually played this game, haven't cracked it open in over ten years, and I don't remember how the rules worked, so I'll be figuring out if it sucks or not as we go!

BEER is the engine behind the similarly forced-comedy game Kobolds Ate My Baby. Is there a large random table of horrible ninja deaths, by any chance?

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

spider bethlehem posted:

Thanks for doing this book, I've really enjoyed a vision into a very 90s transhumanism. It reminds me a little bit of the Expanse, where there's an aesthetic desire to look like hard SF, but then goofy poo poo inevitably happens because that's what the authors secretly want and doing orbital transfer calculations accurately to appeal to a vanishingly small population of nerds who will always check your work gets old real real fast.

These last two are great because they're almost perfect summations of the two schools of thought the book seems to present: one is a ludicrously dangerous and obvious mistake emerging from an obviously terrible idea ("what if oxen were also rattlesnakes AND timber wolves") and the other is a militantly unfanciful massive mutton created out of a completely logical thought process that makes economic and historical sense.

And both have combat statblocks. Natch.

Honestly I think it's pretty sweet that the only thing people want from a sheep in the distant twisted future is more sheep.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Quackles posted:

On top of this, the fail state of this move has… I mean, there’s something there. Technically, the rule of thumb with GM Hard Moves is you use them when the move fails, but when there isn’t a miss condition. Neither of the other perception moves I’ve seen off the top of my head have miss states.

AW2E put the "be prepared for the worst" line at the end of most of its moves, including the perception moves. "On a miss, ask one anyway, but be prepared for the worst." I imagine to make it clearer that the GM has free license to come in and go wild on a 6-.

Which is usually the case, though for moves that are happening in more constrained scenarios the 6- effect can get more specific. Like my own featuring Dante from the Devil May Cry series, the Style Gauge empties on its own so its 6- effects just relate to the move and don't give the GM a broader opening.

Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Quackles posted:

Like the GM principles, these don’t come with explanations.

Made even worse, because they’re dramatic titles and vaguery instead of anything useful.

So someone visits you out of nowhere and that’s a bad thing. That seems… like a thing. It’s just weird, and a weird start.

DM moves don’t have to be bad things. This seems nice. I suppose it means ‘introduce a character to the scene’. Could be phrased better, though…

They don't have to be bad things, but the most use we are supposed to get out of them is when you fail a roll, as a narrative punishment. So, in general, see these as… not bad, but generally negative, even if only slightly.

I would really argue that the main use of GM moves is to present things in the world for the players to respond to. Sometimes it's because they honked a dice roll and you throw in a threat or a loss, and the response to a threat or a loss is bloody obvious. But whenever it's the GM's turn to talk they should be throwing one or more GM moves in there, so the players have something to respond to when the conversation goes back to them.

The GM makes a move that follows, of course, you don't go nearly as hard when Winnie the Pooh's gotten stuck in Rabbit's house again as you do when everyone's fallen into darkness and you're creeping along a cobblestone pathway from a forgotten world, lit by dying lights like distant stars. But if you don't give players something to respond to, they'll have nothing to respond to.

But, wow, just principles and moves with no explanations? No threats, no locations? No sample threat/location moves? No fronts? I'm feeling GM abandoned.

In games like Monsterhearts 2E they did tone down the importance of standalone threats, but that's because Monsterhearts is all about that synthetic teen drama and you don't need a big push to make that go. KH is way more a heroes-and-villains story, with the worlds operating on their own tempo for their own purposes. A threatdown would be huge, but... like, looking at the playbooks, were they expecting your playgroup to take all sides, have a couple people 'nort it up?

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Glazius
Jul 22, 2007

Hail all those who are able,
any mouse can,
any mouse will,
but the Guard prevail.



Clapping Larry

Siivola posted:

Super-Whizzard Class Hacker

Hacking is really just rolling one stat, over and over again? Dang. I can almost understand why Shadowrun decided to have deck attributes play into things, just for variety's sake.

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