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Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


What was that Yud thing about how any sufficiently powerful AI would convince you to let it do sinister AI things?

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Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


"HERE WE GO AGAIN" *horrible existential stuff here*

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Also GMs who over the top kill any PC who's player drops cause some anxiety for players that don't like the game but develop an attachment to their PC. (BLACKLEAF NO)

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Someone said it better up thread, but I think its how people irl are trained to be less empathetic and less cooperative than they naturally can be, the god-machine just uses spooky machine magic to do it instead of fox news meme magic.

Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 07:24 on Oct 3, 2019

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


FMguru posted:

The other thing about armor in pulpy SF is that it often doesn't seem to have any effect (Stormtroopers might as well have been wearing Speedos for all the good their armor did them against a handful of stone-age teddy bears)

You do get some power armor fetish stuff in super light sci-fantasy as well, but yeah.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


I've been in several shadowrun living communities (5th ed) and while any system, no matter how bad, can be fun when playing with friends, shadowrun is the only one where we felt a bond in mutually overcoming a difficult obstacle together (that obstacle being playing shadowrun)

"What joins men together, he said, is not the sharing of bread but the sharing of enemies ", the enemy in this case being Hardy's design.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


At the very least, 5th has a lot more options for init boostering. Wired reflexes in all LCs i've been on has been regarded as a trap option considering how easy it is to use drugs with little/no consequences.

It turns out the future wasn't robot people with wire spines so much as people who can now take ALL THE METH and not die.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Understandable. As a member of said hybrid game, its easier when both the live session is discord/irc and the pbp is on a personal wiki/equivalent somewhere.

It massively helps keep interest up in both parts of it since there's a steady dripfeed of things going on to keep attention.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Oof, yeah, that sounds frustrating. I know I keep rambling about it, but at least the unwared weapon spec works in 5th. Its a combo of edge, drugs, and using things that don't rely on sheer dice pools to be effective (autoweapons fire, suppressive fire* explosives, and grabbing little bonuses here and there via small unit tactics, etc)

*which due to a very shadowrun type bug works BETTER the less initiative you have.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Halloween Jack posted:

In theory--and yes, the game lays out its setting's theories--magick is balanced by having hard limits on what it is and isn't, and what it can and can't do, unlike D&D. In practice, they ignore it all the time, and magick can do really powerful stuff anyway.

The "Analyze Device" spell in particular grinds my gears. It's less offensive than a 1st edition spell called Fix, which fixes broken things.

According to the way magick works in Shadowrun, a gadget-fixing spell or even a lockpicking spell should be impossible. Because spells manipulate energy. Magick itself isn't intelligent and doesn't know things or solve problems. It can't give you skills you don't have, or perform technical work that you don't know how to do. Now, you could maybe summon an urban spirit that knows how to do it for you, because spirits are sentient creatures.

Possession traditions+task spirit cheese :science: :unsmigghh:



Re: Shadowrunners being shadowrunners due to an inherit deficit, I strongly disagree. Pretty much all my PCs do not work for a corp because they don't want to. And the GM forcing you to sucks and I wouldn't play with one that enforced that fluff conceit. "The problems inherent in shadowrunning, up to and including horrible death and things worse than death, are still preferable to work-a-day-life under any possible corp context."

Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 03:54 on Oct 19, 2019

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Ah, its just that its often phrased in a "everyone wants to, and its only being broken in someway that keeps you from going corp" way, with the implication that not wanting to being proof in-of-itself that that PC is a broken shell of a person*.

I apologize if that was not your intent.

*this might just be 4th and most of 5ths ed's anti-punk stance.

Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 04:51 on Oct 19, 2019

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Is that still true? Most runner PCs i've seen, like 80%+ are have sins and use a fake one to get by, with the gm just handwaving most of the surveillance state (Rule of thumb is, rating 4 gets you through normal life with no issues). A genuine barrens rat, born sinless, and working their way up, is a fairly rare concept IME; most sinless PCs tend to be prototype transhuman vatbabies* that fell off the back of a truck.

*The corps seem to have perfected how to manufacture magic people because goddamn are there a bunch of PT awakened out there.

Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 15:57 on Oct 21, 2019

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Yeah, its hard to overstate how much the UCAS is a hollow shell of the U.S.'s ability to project power. Its one of the reasons punk themes died in 4th was because it was really hard to imagine people hiding in the cracks of society from omnipresent law enforcement.

Basically in shadowrun, I go with the rule of thumb that if more than one or two months have passed, and you didn't commit a massacre, no one is gonna look for you. Unless an atrocity is involved, a modern-style police investigation that take months/years before nabbing you at random later just don't happen to runners.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Yes, also the "you can't actually change anything, just minor local details" is really grating in the current zeitgeist.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Aren't humans in Spire the tinker gnome/tech bro equivalents who have a great sales pitch and end up causing incredible catastrophe?

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


"These fists sink ships"

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


I see they don't go for the budget option real world cryogenics do and just save the brain/head for dropping into a future super body.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


If Techbroism is any indicator, massive hubris leads to thinking worse stuff is actually better stuff because :psylon:.

I guess what I'm saying is we need the humans in Spire to do a repeat of the subway fiasco but convincing the Aelfir to cut their own heads off because it'll be really cool and we swear this body swapping ploy will all work.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


I really really like the idea behind Comrades, and I wish that Spire had room for both non-ministry groups and for outsiders and for something like The Professional. I think its one of the things the humans could fit in best is some kind of internationalist professional revolutionary.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


What no-sells me, unless the GM was willing to hand waive it, was the thril-kill stupidity of the jumping in requirements for the ministry. I think it'd be a lot better if the new person had to do any two of those things. Spies are not the same as jason vorhees except with pointy ears and the horny teens are imperialists.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Ithle01 posted:



I think one of my favorite examples of what I'm trying to say is when the book talks about the paladins and then you go down like one page and the book just off-handedly mentions that because of the Undying ritual taking over elf culture Brother Harvest's sects are being pushed to isolation and radicalism with no mention that, oh yeah, the Paladins are a sect of Brother Harvest and there's a pretty good chance the Paladins will either get wiped out by other elves or do your work for you.



Empires alienating their enforcer caste is one of the historical reasons empires fall, or at least change ownership rapidly.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Re: Spire, is this how that one Inksmith ability works?

https://twitter.com/gapingmaws/status/1123408588456640513

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


I guess the final step would someone IC with authorial backing declare Good to not be good and to be a good person many times you need to destroy the Good Guys along with the Bad Guys.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


It helps when you realize that in DnD Good and Evil are basically radiation that hijacks the behavior of sapient beings and not actual moral choices.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Is this actual intelligence or more "I'm stupid, faster!"

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


I still think the worse type is shadowrun, where well meaning white nerds try to challenge racism and end up making something that is somehow more racist than the source material.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


EimiYoshikawa posted:

I'm going to take a guess that they might mean the intelligence penalties Orks and Trolls suffer from in SR. Which, when these are human beings with a mutation based in a real-world-foundation setting, gets a lot more real than fantasy imaginary critters.

Though I suppose they might also mean the elvish nations being authoritarian secret fantasy fash.

Or maybe the Native American Nations being formed out of a literal magic-based uprising when the US tried to literally put them all in camps and steal their land for strip-mining.

Or it could be a half-dozen other less obvious bits, because SR has been around for, like, 30+ years, and it accumulated a lot of cruft in that time.

Any one of these, but specifically orks going through puberty earlier and giving birth in "litters"

And also the bits where First Peoples are actually magical woodland creatures.

The elves getting a country of their own and going fash as hell is completely believable. my SR elf PC has repeatedly mentioned that an elf is doomed the second they start believing the hype about being an elf, and the effect is exponential the more elves are involved.

This is just through 3rd ed, 4th and onward have just had some run of the mill stupid stuff that is neither interesting or remarkable, just annoying.

Also I can't tell if I'm impressed or annoyed with the asspull that in the shadowrun 5th world, Tolkien got so much of the world right because he was accessing genetic memories of the 4th age and may have been a protomage but the mana levels were too low.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Night10194 posted:

You know Gygax's response to the 'classic' 'orc children' question was to use the quote 'nits make lice', right? Which is quoting a 19th century war criminal (someone the *US* acknowledged as a war criminal, who managed to outrage even 19th century America) and what he said when ordering the deaths of children at the Sand Creek Massacre?

E: Though the fact that that ever became a gaming 'dilemma' (what do you do with the children and non-combatants of an orc camp you defeated or whatever) is a big part of why D&D constantly struggles to write 'Good' when you think about it.

I now realize that the most authentic D&D novelization is probably Blood Meridian :psyduck:

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Wait, what's the local birds and bees equivalent, do modrons come from a source other than modrons? Because it was implied all the modrons were there, and if those get wiped, uh?

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


StratGoatCom posted:

Okay, techical bullshit aside, let us begin.



Nice. Do you have a post written up elsewhere with your thoughts on the uh, "transhuman" stuff IRL? All I know if the funnier stuff like the robot devil and and THE BIG YUD :byodood: and the general "You can be anything you want so long as it doesn't violate gendernorms circa 1955 in a white american suburb" tone of it.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Young Freud posted:

Oh hell, is this something topical? 'Cuz, along with J.K. Rowling, Richard Morgan of "Altered Carbon" fame (and basically the uncredited writer of Eclipse Phase, since a lot of the game's concepts came from his novel series) outed himself as a transphobe, claiming to be a "bio-materialist" or some poo poo.

Can't find the original post, but some goon put it best:

quote:

Conservatives/reactionaries are hilarious when it comes to this stuff, because it's the absolute embodiment of their contradictory desires to transcend mere humanity and become a Master race but also their desire than everything be like the 50s again

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Also that award that used his head as a bust was creepy as hell.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


StratGoatCom posted:


straight MIC PR

Huh, what?

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Oh my. The transhuman theme song thing reminds me that the original FATAL had one as well. I can't find it, but I remember it being described as "Cookie monster getting tangled in a drum set and falling down the stairs"

EDIT: FOUND IT (NSFW obv)

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


StratGoatCom posted:

I can see the thought process - it's easier to get away with that if you can respawn.

I, personally, will take Skynet but cthulu+chaos, because the alternate is either done better by Shadowrun or other games like it, or... well, has too much posthuman :2bong: and :a2m:.

Firewall type gameplay is the only real draw for the system, and even then it's not much of one. Or for that matter, that kind of setting.

I like the gatecrashing/colonization system, and enjoy it not happening in a regular Traveller/age of sail in space/etc setting.

I realize I'm saying the best way to interact with the setting is to limit your contact with it, but still.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


LatwPIAT posted:

Hey now, to be fair, 40k can't even do the satirical elements of 40k, it's only reasonable that anyone trying to copy 40k will fail in the exact same way. :v:

(Because, of course, the satirical edge of WH40k isn't that it is justified, it's that it isn't: the immeasurable brutality of the Imperium of Man is completely unjustified and the satire is that we're supposed to laugh at how completely dysfunctional it all is.)

God I wish that were true, way too many fans just overplay the "If you're not a terrible fascist at literally all times, demons pop out of nowhere and skullfuck you, regardless of context" poo poo, and any excess fascism is out of an abundance of caution because the only things that can counter spiky spookydoom is hate and unthinking obedience.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Cythereal posted:

Come to think of it, I suppose part of the grog backlash against Blue Rose and the genre of fantasy it represents is that Romantic Fantasy, in general, is very cognizant of being fantasy. The world wouldn't work like that, of course not. The point here is to imagine a world where it does. Where you can make that kind of difference with a magical singing voice, and where you're accepted and lauded for who you are. It's not about hard facts or logic, or "If you think about it rationally..."

There's a certain strain of gamer, prevalent in some sectors of the internet, that gets really annoyed when you treat a game first and foremost as a game.

Its more the certain type of nerd that heard the phrase "sufficiently advanced technology" and wants to turn all magic, everywhere, into industrialized engineering using game theory on the rules of reality, with a technocratic mindset pushing aside frivolous "emotional" thoughts in favor of "logical" ones.

Ronwayne fucked around with this message at 18:56 on Apr 9, 2021

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


wiegieman posted:

I can almost guarantee I had more fun reading 40k books (the good ones, not the bad ones) last month while I was supposed to be working than the people reading Art books, and let me tell you, those are the very yardstick for genre trash.

You see, a 40k book guarantees something exciting will happen even if its dumb as poo poo. This tends to put it ahead of the stuff about english professors contemplating affairs while grilling a single portabello mushroom.

Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


Joe Slowboat posted:


Litfic also has the advantage of being able to point to the Modernist novel, or Cormac McCarthy, or any number of literary writers, and say 'we're just doing that genre, which is not a genre but just The Novel' and because they're copying stylistic elements, it looks plausible.

A litfic afficionado is looking at how well a book Does Litfic, but insists and believes they're looking for how well it Does Literature.

My genre of run on sentences about people being smeared across the old west like Doom textures.

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Ronwayne
Nov 20, 2007

That warm and fuzzy feeling.


The poo vs the poon

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