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MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Prism posted:

You sure can! I didn't say they can't be evil, only that they don't have to be, which is A Thing for 99% of undead in 3.5E, when Eberron was written.

Edit: maybe I should F&F the new 5E Eberron stuff... would people be interested in that? I know Eberron has been started before, but I think it was abandoned and it would have been the 3E stuff anyway.

I think it would be cool. Eberron's cool.

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MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


SirPhoebos posted:

I've heard about the Forgotten Realms Starbase, but did anything interesting ever happen there?

It was taken over Githyanki and Red Dragons in the Undermountain Adventure path with a portal that led there.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Also checking yeah the fight with Verminaard was after his dragon got blasted by flamestrike. So D2 cut the final battle out.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


War of the Lance for me.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


In Dragonlance a Dark Elf is just supposed to be an elf that got kicked out of Elvish Society right.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Selachian posted:

There's actually one option in the final scene the writers never thought of, and I know it because it's the one my players chose when we ran these adventures.

Namely, when Verminaard is demanding that you hand over the Hammer, say "You want it? Go chase it!" and throw it in the convenient bottomless pit.

I remember reading a run through and a player just tackled him over the edge.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Lets not forget the terrible movie.


MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Man the White Dragon Army leader was way more pathetic than the Red one.

Edit: Thinking of that, do the Dragon Armies have the Red, Blue, Green, Black, White hierarchy?

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 07:50 on Dec 13, 2019

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Seatox posted:

At least Red Dragons, as the designated Chaotic Evil ones. Blue Dragons probably insist on a complicated hierarchy, want their orders signed in triplicate, and will immediately but subtly undermine any Highlord who fails to submit his TPS reports with the correct coversheet, as is the Lawful Evil way.

Blue Dragon's are not really that kind of Lawful Evil.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Oh yes and I agree with all of that. Just saying they are not the lawful evil that cares much formality, contracts, and legal stuff.

PurpleXVI posted:

They're generally described as the only ones with any real concept of loyalty or cooperation among the evil dragons, outside of being bullied or commanded to work together.

Though it's worth noting that 1E dragons are a bit different from 2E dragons in that they're treated a bit more like greedy animals. Even the fundamentally "good" metallic dragons are described as motivated heavily by greed and hoarding instincts, and the monstrous manual has firm rules for how you can break them like beasts of burden and sell them at the market. 1E Dragonlance does make them a bit more intelligent and complex than the basic 1E versions, but not much. Their being treated as something genuinely special didn't really start until 2E.

I recall the FR Greybox was the thing that initially tried to elevate them, with a lot of it's changes becoming the standard going forward.

Though I think the Metallic's still being greedy is still a thing about them. (They are just more willing to part with possessions if it's for a good cause, and feel some guilt about their greed.)

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 20:45 on Dec 14, 2019

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Prism posted:

They don't even all have PhDs yet.

The general intelligence of an adult white dragon in 1E is Average (Low), so in the 7-9 range. For black dragons, it's 'average' (8-10), for greens, it's 'average to very' (8-12), and for blues, it's 'very' (11-12). Metallics average a little higher; copper and brass are 'high', so 13-14.

Only red, bronze, silver, and especially gold dragons are really smart, but they're still no smarter than a human can be. Gold dragons are geniuses (17-18) and the other three are 'exceptional', so about 15-16.

(By comparison, in later editions, gold dragon wyrmlings have 14 and go up from there all the way up to 32 at great wyrm. Even white dragons get up to the 18-20 INT range and they're frequently described as stupid - and, by dragon standards, they are. Though it's easier to have stats over 18 in 3E, dragons are still a lot smarter in comparison to everybody else.)

I know in 5e a Ancient White Dragon only has average intelligence (10.) The other chromatic Wyrmlings vary from average to high (14). So they are all born more intelligent than an Adult White.

The fact that they are born with such intelligence is part of the reason they are so arrogant.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 19:44 on Dec 15, 2019

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


I thought the Norse Dark Elves and Dwarves were different things.

Joe Slowboat posted:


They exist because they fill a pulp stereotype, and that pulp source is wildly orientalist.
Drow don't seem particularly eastern.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 04:34 on Dec 16, 2019

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Joe Slowboat posted:

even more 'advanced' than Europe, but which had crumbled due to a lack of vigor and ethical drive.

Largely get the same impression of the Drow there. Though I would not call them crumbling. Along with being more advanced and being better than other people at most things, they are a rising force.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Libertad! posted:

The Dragonlance novels were based off of Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman's own gaming sessions which they were writing up for TSR's Dragonlance project.* Several of the players in those sessions helped write a lot of the DL series PurpleXVI's reviewing today; in fact, the name Jeff Grubb shows up almost as much as the big two, and he's contributed to countless Dragonlance sourcebooks and modules since.

So they were 'playtested' in the same vein that the DM's own adventures, warts and all, were eventually converted into a published adventure serial.

*During the late 70s to early 80s TSR had a desire to do something different than the anti-hero Conanesque "treasure hunters" module which D&D had in spades, and instead try something closer to Tolkienesque high fantasy.

If I remember correctly, Takhisis and Paladine were the names they came up with for the Chromatic Dragon and Platinum Dragon from the Greyhawk (supplement) for their home games. Before the Monster Manual named them Tiamat and Bahamut.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


PurpleXVI posted:

what are the consequences if the March gets stopped?

My impression is that they would try again. Which would be very annoying for many people.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Indeed as the book shows even Primus dying has no effect on the modrons in the long term, as a new one will quickly replace it.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Tylana posted:

I assume promotion here is basically a transformation with the similar increase in abilities?

Yes and you also get all the required knowledge of how to do your role correctly, and a bunch of other stuff. Tons of memories are inherited, and the personality is basically the same. There is functionally no difference, between the old Primus and the new one for example, who would know basically everything the old Primus knew.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


JcDent posted:

*remembers Age of Sigmar maps*

Yeah, no.

They have actual maps now. Which is nice.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Midjack posted:

Why are the Dragonlance metallic dragons so paralyzed by the threat of something happening to their eggs? Having your kids held hostage definitely is terrible, but is there something else like “no more eggs ever”?

Also it was like all of the Eggs.

However because the Dragon Army were not capable of shying away from being dog kicking evil once they made the deal they hosed with the eggs, and the metallic dragons eventually learned that the eggs were being sacrificed to make Draconians.

EimiYoshikawa posted:

No, just these ones.

So, you know, just the emotional trauma of your kids being held hostage. Just because you can make more doesn't render that a bad threat (for normal people), and it's hard not to sympathize with them for backing off, even if the stakes are 'the whole world'.

Well the whole world for the non dragon races. The Metallics would have probably been largely unaffected for a good while.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Interested in Dragons as well.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


At least the Metallics did decided to do something once they found out the eggs were being hosed with.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


I remember hearing about the Noble Draconians. An attempt to create more Draconian's out of their ally Chromatic Eggs after the Dragonarmies lost access to the Metallic eggs they had. I guess their logic was "Well a bunch of Draconians will be more useful then a Dragon Wyrmling right now."

Wonder if this pissed off some of their Chromatic Allies.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


SirPhoebos posted:

I was half expecting there to be some bullshit diplomacy checks because even after the reveal the Metallics initial response would be "That's awful...but an oath's an oath! Wouldn't want to be called deal-breakers, now do we? :downs:"

Well the other party already broke the deal, and Metallics are not Warhammer Dwarfs.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed



Takhisis is kind of lacking compared to Tiamat. Her heads are all just generic dragon heads while Tiamat's heads properly match each type of Chromatic dragon.

MonsterEnvy fucked around with this message at 10:40 on Jan 2, 2020

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


PurpleXVI posted:

Each dragon type was visually distinct as far back as the 2nd ed AD&D MM, at least. 3.x caricatured these shapes to some extent, but they're still clearly descended from 2e.

The 1e monster manual started the shapes. (No color in the book needed to make them distinct somehow.)



The 2e versions are not too different just in color.


3e just made the modern looks.


Tiamat back in 1e still had the distinctive heads.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Terrible Opinions posted:

I don't get why D&D proposes societies that people only worship one god out of a pantheon. Why wouldn't it be more like real world polytheism where you worship the whole pantheon based on occasion, and mystery cult priests dedicated to one god or people who have a single god as a special patron are specialties rather than the norm?

I know the Realms and Greyhawk does not do that. While some people will favor some gods over another and pick an overall patron. The majority pay respects to the gods depending on the situation. For example pretty much anyone that goes on a ship in the realms will pray and or give offerings to the evil gods Umberlee and Talos the gods of the Sea and Storms respectively in hopes to avoid them causing problems. Clerics focus on a single god as their direct patron, but even they will pay respects to the others situationally.

Some societies (normally evil ones.) will outlaw the worship of some gods and focus on one god over others, but that is normally because of their clergy having a great deal of influence.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


I have heard of Cyan Bloodbane. He's apparently a fairly iconic Green Dragon villain, and apparently helped set the mold for Green Dragon attitudes. However I hate is name what kind of Green Dragon is called Cyan.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


I like Beholder's but it does make no sense for there to be any there.

Also the idea of the separate dream worlds is not bad, but ideally the adventure in each of them should be fairly short, and each one should be different. From the sound of it here, you are going to be doing the same thing multiple times.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Seatox posted:

A well of many worlds? That's either useless, because of Dragonlance's rather small and sad cosmology, or a potential way to escape Krynn to a better campaign setting.

I remember playing Planescape Torment and one of the guys you meet is a Knight from Krynn who is utterly baffled by what's going on, as they have pretty much no idea about the planes.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Wait is this not an opportunity to kill several major villains in the campaign.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Kaza42 posted:

It's actually Raistlin who dispels the protections around Ariakas but the rest of this seems pretty accurate

Ok I was about to comment on it being pretty bad that divine intervention just saves the day and kills the villain.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Cythereal posted:

Now if only 40k could catch up to treating women equally.

It's getting better. The new edition of Wrath and Glory largely gives equal representation. With the only exceptions being called out. Namely Space Marines are all male, cause in universe the implants have so far only worked on some male biologies. and GW has not retconned that yet. And the Sisters of Battle are all Female, cause only women are allowed to join.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Cythereal posted:

The Sisters of Battle are an embarrassment, in my book. Amazon factions tend to be, for me, unless there's actual women driving their development and portrayal.

Out of curiosity what is embarrassing about them to you. ( I actually know very little about the faction, other than the basics. Militant Nuns created as the Ecclesiarchy's standing army, is women only to exploit a loophole.)

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Cythereal posted:

Also, the fact of the matter is that for most of 40k's history, the Sisters have been a punchline. When they're not being completely psychotic to just plain stupid (which even otherwise good about women book series like Ciaphas Cain have indulged in),

40k writers seem to relish Sisters getting brutalized and massacred, even by Imperial forces - see also that whole thing where the Grey Knights massacred a convent of Sisters to use their blood as anti-daemon wards.


Yeah it's kind of shame they were punchline for a long time. I have heard their new book and recent fluff have at least been treating them kinder, but this is just hearsay from me as I have not read it or much recent stuff featuring them.
But on the psychotic to plain stupid part. I can't fault them too much for that as that is the Ecclesiarchy in a nutshell. The really devout members of the imperial faith tend to be crazy.

I have heard of the Grey Knights killing a convent of them thing. It seems to be pretty universally hated.

Anyway thanks for explaining.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Cythereal posted:

Having an in-setting reason why the women-dominated army is psychotic and stupid doesn't help. Because oh isn't it a shame that we've established that it's fluffy and in-character for all those women to act dumb am i rite fellas.

Good point.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Once it gets its first big batch of errata, I would love to see the new Wrath and Glory here. (I am not a great writer so that's why I would not do it myself.)

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


While I do find the Imperium interesting in a macabre way, I am glad the protagonist fractions in the other two Warhammer settings are not horrible hellscapes. The Empire and Alliance of Order have their flaws, but are not even remotely as horrible.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Looking forward to this. I actually quite enjoy the starter set. But I am curious what others thought of it.

MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


A few things to remember about the Core Rules for fighting a troll.

It will cause Fear in all the characters. In order to outnumber you have to get into melee with the Troll. People that fail the fear test won't be able to engage the troll right away. Lastly if the troll activates deathblow if it makes any hits.

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MonsterEnvy
Feb 4, 2012

Truly Cursed


Tibalt posted:

The Troll has a +9 Weapon and a +8 Bite compared to Silverbeard +8 Weapon, so in theory the Troll can hit with two attacks per turn and deal significantly more damage. In practice, the Troll isn't going to have the Advantage available to use his Bite, and the extra WS that Silverbeard has means he's doing more damage on average because he's hitting on rolls where the Troll would miss.


The Troll has vomit as well. And if he does score a hit he can attack a different person, or spend his advantage to bite or vomit. Still the troll will have issues being outnumbered. It's why I had the troll use the River to his advantage. This along with his ability to leave combat whenever he wanted made him much harder to deal with.

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