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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Kurieg posted:

I'm reminded of Eberron, where there are several setting mysteries that Baker straight up did not come up with an answer for because they're more interesting that way.

Yeah. Like an example cited was even Baker doesn't know the secret behind the Mournlands, and doesn't want to make one up.

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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Mors Rattus posted:

I suppose I could. Shunned by the Moon is the one that wowed me most recently, but if folks enjoyed it I can take a look at the others.

I enjoyed the Promethean one, where the really good highs made the depressing lows all the more apparently.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





KirbyKhan posted:

Yeah, Prometheus seems dope. These are some fun stories.

This book has some terrifying lows, but at the least you get some dizzying heights first. I absolutely don't regret the purchase, but it's just a shame it's not consistently good.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





I love the hyper specific Lineages. Why the Dust Bowl specifically to give rise to its own created people? It's a great concept.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Joe Slowboat posted:

Beasts are specifically 'inhumanity cheerleaders' who encourage monsters to glory in monster-ness and ignore all kinship with humanity. They emphasize otherness as if it's power, and via their social and magical special effects, they can pretty hugely screw up a Promethean's Pilgrimage with little effort. Other than Centimani, a Beast is a direct threat to the guiding light of a Promethean's life. No other splat is as concerned with specifically hewing to humanity, not merely as a means to an end (staying stable and functional) but as the fundamental existential quest of their existence.

Which is again another of the (probably many) reasons the Forsaken would not like Beasts, since they like this whole 'balance between wolf and man' thing.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Apocalypse is cool and good. Ethan Skemp actually remembered to make a place for the PCs instead of quietly watching Antediluvians duke it out, or whatever it is Divis Mal does.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





I have a small fondness for Zhyzhak as my pack killed her in the Final Battle after she offed Albrecht. We had a Silver Fang and she was meant to kill the last Gaian king but not the Gaian queen. A variation on the Eowyn "I am no bro" rule for world-ending plots.

Now as you read that you will find all of your doors are locked from the outside and escape is impossible, I will tell you about the rest of that campaign.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Geist rules, when you're done with it That Old Tree, do yourself a favor and skim the 1e core book and see how much stuff that's great in 2e isn't there in the first edition
including rules for interacting with your Geist in any way, or having anything at all to do or any conflicts baked into the setting.

Holy crap on the spoilers. I'd say especially the second but both are kinda crazy.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Set's dead, baby. Set's dead.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





NuWoof even encourages different tribes in a pack for a variety of Sacred Hunts.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Kurieg posted:

Yeah, that's one of the better changes from first to 2nd edition. In first edition the game said that Tribes mostly hated eachother and loathed to interact while simultaneously presenting all these multi-tribe packs.

There was an interesting ideological thing in the Hunting Grounds: Rockies book that had the two biggest alpha on opposite sides of 'just how far should one pack go to help another pack,' although the one who pushed 'every pack should be self-sufficient (and she wasn't wrong) didn't hate the idea of multi-tribal packs but more the idea of any pack interfering in another pack's territory.

Although telling that the other alpha was probably more in the wrong was he felt the need to keep a single Bone Shadow around because that was the only member of the tribe he had in his pack and wanted to push his agenda so hard he was making her miserable because A) she was in her late teens (probably the PCs' age) and thus the youngest and feeling majorly out of place and B) couldn't even really interact with other Bone Shadows because they were afraid she was snooping for her Alpha when she just wanted somebody to talk to.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Lord_Hambrose posted:

Saulot hung out with a bunch of Kindred of the East guys, so he was down with some weird stuff.

You make it sound so nice. Saulot wanted to learn from them, but the Bodhisattva Kuei-Jin disdained him and called him uncool and gaijin and stuff and sent him packing. Then they went back to, I dunno, practicing the blade.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





JcDent posted:

By the way, is nuVamp so dead and boring that nobody ever talks about them?

Oh, I'll talk about its clanbooks all day because they are all uniformly excellent - the line as a whole has produced some amazing gems - but as dumb as metaplot can sometimes be when most of your game is a toolkit there's not nearly the amount of common ground.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Kurieg posted:

The Stargazers and the Salubri are too powerful, You can't play them anymore. Here are rules to play them. Stop playing them.

Well, Kailindo was too powerful.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Chernobyl Peace Prize posted:

Also having three axis-splats (Breed for Gnosis, Tribe for Willpower, Auspice for Rage) and Stargazers being the only ones who got 5 Willpower.

Yup. From a min-maxing perspective you were dumb to play anything but a Lupus Ahroun Stargazer which gave you straight fives across the board and an excuse to take aforementioned werewolf martial art.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





I've heard it put best that Clans are who you are, Covenants are what you do.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





At the time, Forsaken certainly felt like a downgrade. From 'the Earth is dying and you must rage to save it' to 'you're the neighborhood watch but for spirits.'

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





JcDent posted:

I'm one of those "read the 1e and never looked again" people.

Specifically, it was about having just read a bunch of oMage fluff (including Technocracy poo poo, which seemed way cool) and going to read nMage's hippy bullshit (caves? Ladders? Atlantis?) turned me the gently caress off.

I honestly think Mage was worst of the three as the other two had enough left of the old editions to kind of carry you through, but there just wasn't much to Mage 1E on just the core. It took Dave Brookshaw's PBP game that he posted on RPG.net to get me to see what it could be, and apparently this is not uncommon.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Brass makes me wish I was any good at thinking up Interlocks. Really, it's what keeps me from running the game.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Do Demons also speak all languages automatically?

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





OvermanXAN posted:

It also feels like it'd be a fun little side goal to try to make her Fall or be Exiled just so she can chat. Or just in general be sociable with her.

I wonder how hard it would be to give her that push. Here, you can be good at your job AND talk about it to people who would be impressed!

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





I wonder how well The Invisibles holds up under that lens today.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Halloween Jack posted:



Shadowrun liked to pretend that "extremely skilled with little or no cyberware" was equivalent to "mediocre skills and cybered to the gills." It's not.

We found this out the hard way when my group made characters based mostly off the pregens. Like, for the Face it didn't matter. At combat she was competent enough with some skill with pistols and hand-to-hand and that was fine, she was there to make sure it didn't come to combat. The Shaman had magic. Decker, Rigger, their skill sets. The Weapon Specialist, though? It's kind of demoralizing to be the one who can use any lethal weapon ever and watching the Street Samurai carve things up before you can even act because Wired Reflexes.

Not terribly along into the campaign one of the run rewards was either nuyen or a much larger store credit in cyberware. They took the hint and got wired and all was well. (Well, as well as 3E got but we made it work.)

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





EthanSteele posted:

How did they carve things up before you could even act? In SR3 they still have the same options as you per pass and only act once per pass, they just get extras afterwards. The only to get more sets of actions per pass is Move-by-Wire cyberware which has a whole host of drawbacks, is mondo expensive and none of the pregens have because it was introduced in a later book. The way it shakes out in the game I'm in is most things are dealt with by everyone's second pass and then the third pass guy has nothing to do.

Mostly it boiled down to the Weapons Specialist only going the same amount of times as somebody playing a support role. How it worked in my experience is everybody'd get their pass and then the Street Samurai would go two more times because the WS had to roll high to get two passes because, whoops, no initiative boosting. They're only rolling, what, 6+1D6 and hoping for an 11 to go again?* And that's not even considering stuff like the spell-lobber just flinging down an AOE spell and calling it a day (which is a Shadowrun problem in general). The crux of the problem - 'highly skilled is the same worth as lots of cyberware or spells or any other niche' - is that it just doesn't apply to combat characters. The player wanted to contribute via combat and did not feel they were really doing so.

*My player didn't buy the Booster Reflexes, buying - surprise - more weapons and such because he thought that was the pregen's deal which in theory it is.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Halloween Jack posted:

You are correct, but you'd be surprised how many people houseruled 3e so that wired reflexes worked like in 2e. I remember people complaining about it on Dumpshock. Bad design can be addictive.

Oh, yeah. Best I can figure they wanted Street Samurai to be Solos from Cyberpunk.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Ratoslov posted:

Not entirely. The single strongest element of Shadowrun is that the game puts front-and-center it's answer to 'So What Do You Do In This Game, Exactly?' It has lived where other games have died because every bit of lore and crunch is built with an eye towards the PCs being Freelance Assholes who Do Crimes For Money (And Sometimes Pro-Bono). Sure, they'll go off discussing the new monetary policies of the Corporate Court for a page, but they always swing back to discussing what kind of jobs that means for you, Johnny Chainsaw-for-a-Dick.

And the format of 'this is on a BBS and runners chime in when they have something useful* to add' really helps for it, too. Like you'll get a page on how stocks work for the mega-corps and some runner will be like 'I CAN'T LOAD THIS INTO MY GUN WHY DO I CARE' and somebody will tell them because you can also, say, get paid in stock which can be sold to get money and money can be used for goods and services.

*May not actually be useful. Or it's just Kain posting.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Halloween Jack posted:

Yeah, I have to give them credit for this. They were very good about it. Shadowrun has plenty of metaplot events, and every single one of them was designed to give your PCs stuff to do.

Like, a dragon became president, and then was assassinated. And the consequences of his last will and testament basically makes him Elminster the Quest-Giver, with the added bonus of a) not being Elminster and b) being dead so he never shows you up in any way.

My favorite was Dunk left his exceedingly valuable comic collection to somebody who got it snatched and the PCs were hired to retrieve it, which ended in a merry chase of two different go-gangs chasing the runners in their hijacked semi (because how else are you going to transport dozens of long boxes).

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





EthanSteele posted:

The answer to explaining murderhoboing is..uh.. don't? As in "don't murderhobo" but for some reason people decide that the Sneaky Espionage game where best case scenario is you sneak into a place or talk your way by some guards and do sick hacking tricks so that nobody has ever known anyone was there is the one to get an SMG and then just shoot everyone you see with APDS rounds.

And if you desire, a 'shoot first ask questions eh maybe never' approach to the game is super-easy to discourage in Shadowrun. Amusingly in my game it had the effect of making my runners hyper careful planners because they no longer fancied the idea of being chased by APCs and VTOLS and other military acronym vehicles after it happened a couple of times.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





EthanSteele posted:

Yup! Just like Torchbearer says, you wouldn't be a protagonist if you could be a productive member of society. My group was talking about this today after the session, that one of the valid end points for a Shadowrunner is a corp recognizing your skills, deciding you're worth whatever problems you've got and going "yeah, we'll hire you on retainer and give you a pension" and being an official Aztechnology Problem Solver (Assassin) or something.

That's the end game my group reached at one point, being the go-to troubleshooter squad for the Draco Foundation. As the Draco Foundation was broadly altruistic, most of the runs were stuff like 'keep the mystical whatsit out of Aztechnology's hands' and such, enabling them to have a healthy credstick and a clear-ish conscience.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Nessus posted:

I feel like in a world where Kenny Omega came to the ring in an Undertale costume, the nerd/jock dichotomy is dead

There was the guy who tried to make his heel thing 'D&D is for nerds.'

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





MonsterEnvy posted:

Lets not forget the terrible movie.




So they tried to make the Dragonmen in terrible CGI?

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





There was a nice take on blues where if somebody really, really wanted an objective ruling on a situation then they'd take the legal matter to a blue dragon who totally get off on that sort of thing.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





That Old Tree posted:

I…her…her head.

Is she owl-kin?

At least it's not an air-quotes sexy pose that would sever her spine? I guess?

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





LeSquide posted:

...so, are there any good sourcebooks on Myconids or other fungus folk?

Just an indepth look a ttheir social gathering and hang out spots called Club Fungi.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Mors Rattus posted:

Semi-related, the FFG version of Legend of the Five Rings just had the pdf release of its book on ronin and foreigners, complete with rules on Not The Middle East and Not India, and its reeeeally good.

Oh, nice. I was very let down by the original Burning Sands book, so it'd be nice to see a new take. Especially not one bound by Continuity.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Happily the Wayward book slaps. Like it's one of the good reasons they had Black Dog.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Aethyron posted:

Oh, yeah, Waywards are actually rad (Hermits are more interesting than they might initially seem). It's just some, uh, interesting description. Plus the sheer audacity of putting the creed descriptions in this book without any of their actual powers.

Also, I hope I'm doing this right please let me know if I should change anything up. I decided to just to the intro stuff as one post, others will probably be a bit longer?

You're absolutely right. It was pretty baiting. And as far as your format it looks fine to me. I think Hunter is lowkey my favorite cWOD game warts and all so I love to read on it.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Night10194 posted:

The basic idea of the Wayward plays really well into the strong part of Hunter, I think. Namely the 'you can no longer fail to see the insanity around you'. The whole 'moment of terrible, terrible clarity and no way to return to normalcy' is the strong horror idea at the heart of Hunter before all the other stuff gets poured over it to smother it.

Not so sure I care for the 'every last one of these guys is a murderous psychopath who doesn't care how many humans they get killed' aspect, though. It would be more interesting to have a variety of reactions to always-on monster detection.

That's more cleared up in their own book in that they see Hunters and regular people else as tools in their war, they can appreciate that you have to maintain them. They also don't care if they break. I like both the Wayward and the Hermit as botched attempts at getting Vision right.

Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





The pain of th WW font in Hunter was real. Roughly a third of the Martyr book (I think) I still haven't read.

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Dawgstar
Jul 15, 2017





Joe Slowboat posted:

Surely you mean Hunter: The Reckoning, not Hunter: The Vigil.

Vigil is the newer one where Hunters are (often) mundane people with shotguns and grit and no angelic directives.

Although in one case they DO have demonic directives. Sort of.

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