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Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





And people talk poo poo about necromancers. At least a necromancer just kills you and uses your body to carry luggage.

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Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Zereth posted:

catch a Goofy Magic Train With A Silly Trait That Would Make It Annoying To Use and go from Death Town back to where you live and then get a Cab But It Only Lets You Pay With Teeth Or Something to your house? Like, is dying just "poo poo, now I need to get a ride home"

monte cook presents: Todd.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





RocknRollaAyatollah posted:

It was so crazy that you omitted Trotsky of all people from faction 1. This feels like something generated by machine learning.
Are we talking the original Trotsky or the clone the Posadists made?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





KirbyKhan posted:

I won't be able to pay my share of rent this month, the orbs from the last adventure were just too dope to send to the mobile park office. I'm thinking bout using my Mana coin to conjure up a kickin rager, just all the booze my supreme hosting powers can provide. So if you know anybody who's down, we could charge orbs and make rent that way. I'm just gonna need a little time to make some change for the copier. Money is so easy I just fill out surveys and it's like change in the mail magic.

Looking for a bro to charge my orb with. I had better see you with an orb in the picture, don't waste my time.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Ithle01 posted:

Promethean in nWoD seems interesting, but hard for me to work with because I'm not really good at telling stories about personal growth and discovering what it means to be human. Promethean in oWoD seems like I would take to it like a fish to water because angsty sexy nuclear super- powered Frankensteins fighting spider monsters is the sort of stuff I do well with. So, how feasible is it for me to run a game of Promethean using it just to get into ridiculous pulp adventures? Out of the core book it does not seem like this would work, but this review makes me think otherwise.

Also, what the gently caress is going on with these cloning labs? Are these things all over the place or something because the book is just casually tossing out that 'yes, cloning labs exist and they're all over the place' and just not focusing on that like it's no big deal? I have to assume that they're run by a combination of shady government alphabet types and the Umbrella corporation.
It doesn't seem like you would need to change the Promethean rules themselves to set things in the classic World of Darkness, you would just flavor the relevant entities appropriately.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Night10194 posted:

That's also kind of funny for them when they're happily palling it up with and building stuff for a 'no I swear I'm not a TITAN, promise' super-AI.
It's okay when they do it, they're the hard morphs making the hard decisions and making it so that the rabble can continue to exist without worrying their little brainchips. Sort of a thin blue line kind of thing.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Do they have some note about how there are a lot of planets that are just not interesting adventure scenarios or is this just meant to be vaguely cosmically xenophobic?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





PurpleXVI posted:

I think they actually thought, in their heads, that these were all cool adventure locations, since they wrote up two PLOT HOOKS for each of them at the end of the book. But it's kind of like the Inner Planes in D&D. Neat locations, give some atmosphere, explain some of the setting's cosmology... but like 1% of 1% of all 20th level parties get bored enough to go there or have a GM high enough on drugs to create an adventure for the place.
Considering the lack of actual influence on the local schismatrix in Eclipse Phase, this is all completely dispensible as far as I can tell... at least the various planar cosmologies could give you ideas for cool poo poo a wizard gated in.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





megane posted:

Now that you mention it, how do you have any form of economy on the elemental plane of fire? The only thing there is is fire, and presumably there's plenty to go around.
Watercoin.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Ratoslov posted:

On the other hand, backstabbing and self-destruction are supremely human. :eng101:
I think one of the points of Promethean is taking a break from pop misanthropy.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Halloween Jack posted:

That's something I really wanted to talk about, particularly with regard to Vampire. A problem with writing legends and rumours into your setting is that if something is rumoured to exist, it exists. What are you gonna do, say "Nah, that's bullshit" and not take your fans' money to publish a sourcebook about it?

The impending End Times in all of the classic WoD games was a great parallel to the looming sense of dread at the end of the millennium. But having all the legends turn out to be true really messes with the theme. The Vampire developers could certainly have said "Yes, Caine and the Antediluvians are dead. The Jyhad is just paranoia feeding paranoia, a cycle of violence that no one knows how to stop." But that was never going to happen.
You could have probably split the difference and said "Yeah, some of the Antediluvians are dead and 98% of this bullshit is due to their actual actions, with the balance being random chance and/or Lilith."

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





StratGoatCom posted:

The trick, therefore, is switch hits and go terrorize the other horrors that go bump in the night on regular occasions regularly. :black101:
Indeed, nothing can be more glorious than to live to kill the Other.

I think this is a place where the nWoD mythos breaks down a little, because to a certain extent vampires become fungible; it seems as if there would not really be an escalation here, that if you are killing vampires, you will encounter stronger and weaker vampires, but it's within a pretty narrow continuum.

Because what would seem to be a logical enclosure for a Promethean is to have a master vampire to take out.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





That Old Tree posted:

Yeah Masks can be impressive but ultimately an Ochema can just like banish them to an extradimensional oubliette or outright unmake them backwards in time with a wave of whatever appendage it happens to have.
That seems like the Ochema is setting itself up to have Jason Voorhees pop out of a hole in time with a chainsaw at the moment when the Ochema is weakest, perhaps from having been infused with distilled mage chat.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





PurpleXVI posted:

Jason Vorhees bursts through the floor of the UN general assembly, pulls himself up as diplomats scream and cramble to get out of the way, then just stands in front of the doors, menacingly, until everyone agrees that world peace would be a good idea. Every time a general or dictator starts pondering a territorial grab or border violation he hears a faint "ch ch ch ch, ha ha ha ha" in the background and decides that he doesn't want more land quite that badly.
"A minister once chose to abandon the dispute resolution process, with all its flaws and delays, in favor of a military solution... cutting the Gordian knot. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a big Amarone."

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Jerik posted:

I'm kind of reluctant to admit this, but there is actually exactly one thing I like about Beast. Lairs. I like the idea of Lairs, and how they fit together, and how they can be customized and how they can be temporarily overlaid on the real world. I wish Lairs had been in a better game. It's a pity that absolutely everything else about Beast is complete and utter garbage.
destroy the outlander Naw I think that's pretty common. The big thing is people pouring enormous amounts of time into trying to rescue or fix Beast, which is an ironically appropriate meta-narrative reaction to the game, but really annoying after the tenth or fifteenth time.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Halloween Jack posted:

Didn't the Mage book also have an "asteroids are falling and there's nothing you can do about it" one?
I always knew Char would come through for us.

The Gehenna book had some fun moments I recall.

There was a pre-scripted interview with Jan Pieterzoon going on Good Morning Today, which I thought was one of the places where, yeah, that's a cutscene if your characters weren't in the area.

There was a creepy thing where Malkav, currently inhabiting a big cluster of former Malkavians, shows up at the rural settlement where Dr. Netchurch is earning his keep with his actual doctoring and wheedles "Douglas" to come out and play.

And the end game where Tremere, currently in a 4th generation body, uses hella Thaumaturgy and the Mormon genealogy (as a substitute for the True Name of humanity at large) to a. reduce his Generation back to Antediluvian and b. uh, something, I think he wanted to briefly Dominate everyone else incl. vampires to go look at the sunrise (present company excepted). I believe this has several endings, including Tzimisce boiling out of his mouth after he distills his blood back to 3rd or even 2nd generation and saying "gg no wp"

Halloween Jack posted:

Zyzyzrk is so weird. Like a powerlifter in dominatrix gear with a bullwhip who lives in a giant yonic kaiju shows up and you're like "Mommy" but she just wants to scream and kill people.
Yeah I'm legitimately surprised she never came up in discussions on SA before now, as far as I can tell.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Exactly, give her an undercut and make her the face of a game line, 3k Kickstarter backers. You don't even need to change her characterization.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Halloween Jack posted:

"Banality" was an extremely childish concept in the first place, and if you weren't a Changeling, it was almost entirely to your benefit to be treated as if you had Banality 10. In Old Changeling, the most important part of NPC Banality was that it makes it harder to cast spells on them.

Changeling's cantrip system is extremely hosed. It was meant to be flexible without being as universal as Mage, but in practice having both Arts (your spells) and Realms (what you can cast spells on) means more stuff you have to spend XP on before you can do anything.

Getting a spell to work typically cost a fuckton of Glamour. The system treated Glamour like Blood Points, but a vampire getting blood is way, way easier than a Changeling getting a few points of Glamour.
Glamour also kind of came off at times like you were a hipster vampire of the soul, squirreling away art because some random bootleg mix tape has a rich stock of mojo, while Beethoven and Kurosawa were like, banal now, because everyone knew about them.

Personally Id rather lose a few blood points than have some weirdo lock up my lifes work.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Kurieg posted:

Also Saulot was a special snowflake holy vampire who could do no wrong and was sacred and pure and his bloodline is also sacred and pure and has magic holy powers so he's always going to show up in something plot significant.
If hes so strong, why did he lose to Nappa? Checkmate Salubrilures

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Kurieg posted:

In first edition they stated that you could make vampires out of all the were creatures. Second edition walked that back a bit, specifically for the Sun based were-beasties. Corax self immolate in a pillar of sunlight, killing themselves and the vampire who tries to embrace them. Mokole don't work most of the time and when it does they just go into permanent frenzy in their godzilla form.

So when Kitsune were introduced late in the line they stated in no uncertain terms that no, they cannot be embraced, they literally burst into flames if you try because WHO THE gently caress KNOWS BUT STOP loving TRYING.
I guess what I'd have asked there is, "What is your goal in making a vampire werewolf?"

Are you doing mad science? Sure, the abomination rules work.
Do you want to be 2gether 4ever with your soul bond? You can just ghoul 'em.
Do you want to stack combat dice? Well I think the only thing vampires have that weres didn't is Potence, and ghouling handles that too.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





PurpleXVI posted:

Classic sci-fi stuff has a lot of cool stuff.

I think what fascinates me the most is a protagonist who signs a peace accord with the antagonist, rather than just blowing them to smithereens. Like, it's rare you see that in a story, of any genre. It strikes me a really cool.
They had a lot of room to maneuver in the old days. I think some of it was because of the compilation magazines and their own market pressures. Obviously you wanted to sell, but it wasn't like one weirdo story would sink a magazine, or even an author. It had to get past Campbell the editors of the magazine, of course...

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





How many American cash dollars is this fool charging for such exciting advice?

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Pounded in the Butt by my Unquestioned Accumulated Grognard Experience with its thrilling sequel, Turned Gay By The Handsome Sentient Mustard I Smuggled Into The City To Evade Taxes

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





lofi posted:

Chuck tingle would be a great gm, as long as you're OK with a very specific style of play.
Roll +Tingle.

On a 6- you are shaking and drooling. Take one forward, but you do not accept that love is real.
On a 7-9 you accept love is real but must choose one consequence of this:
* Translated to another timeline
* You draw the attention of Ted Cobbler or his minions
* Mark off 1 chocolate milk
On a 10+ you accept love is real. You may choose one consequence from the 7-9 table and immediately become Hot to Trot.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Are the 22 personality types the major arcana of the tarot?

If so, give us Hermit, Chariot, Magician, Hierophant, Star and The World.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





PurpleXVI posted:

Maybe I just hang out with the wrong people, but I've yet to hear a single, well, story, or positive comment about nVamp. Like, that's not to say that I hear bad stories about it. Just no one mentions it. Ever.

Geist comes up, nWolfs, nMage, nDemon, nPromethean, sure. But Vampire? Might as well just not exist. Which suggests that even if it's, say, mechanically better or story-wise more solid than oVamp, there's gotta be some sort of magic lacking if no one ever talks about it. Like maybe in tightening it up they also lost some of the goofy poo poo that gave oVamp character and let people have fun with it. Or something.

Or maybe I should get off my rear end and do a review of it as someone who, despite recognizing all the terrible things about oVamp, can get completely lost in reading a ton of its dumb supplements for hours at a time. :v:
I think it's a mix of oVamp having been kind of the big splashy flagship of the World of Darkness to the point of embedding concepts of it into the cultural concept of the vampire for the foreseeable future, and also nVamp having taken in some ways a lot of pains to "not be oVamp," which produced... a good system, and fun lore, but very much Not Old Vampire. And what is the opposite of a very memorable thing?

By comparison, most of the other splats were either a push (nWolf, imo), an improvement (Mage, Changeling), or completely novel (Promethean, Demon).

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Halloween Jack posted:

Why does everyone think every game is JoJo's Bizarrely Named Anime

edit: or Persona
Jojo and Persona share enough DNA that I can give you a fair guess as to why.

Both of these are essentially urban-fantasy-in-the-modern-world settings where characters have visually distinctive and strongly characterized abilities. They are also generally speaking humans who gained their power through, at worst, an accident, rather than having become vampires or whatever. (There is the occasional vampire etc. of course.) The plots also tend to be strongly character-driven, and the protagonists usually either ultimately succeed at their mission, or at least accomplish something, rather than drowning in the horror and misery of modern anomie. In other words, the struggle is worth it-- it may be hard but you can, by the implicit rules of the material, succeed.

Both of them also invest the characters' supernatural powers in a secondary character/representation connected symbolically to them, which is probably the go-to factor here.

e: So it's really more that people WANT to play Persona/Jojo, or at least something resembling those sources without being heavily authored by a guy with weird phobic opinions/a vampire from space, respectively

Nessus fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Sep 24, 2019

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Gantolandon posted:

Werewolf is the worst about proper nouns, because every loving single one of them is in a foreign, made-up tongue (some have English counterparts, which the authors sometimes use). So you have to learn that Uratha are split between Urdaga (the Forsaken) and Anshega (the Pure), that when you enter kuruth you spend some time in basu-im before entering wasu-im, that Hunters in Darkness are also called Meninna and when the text mentions an Iminir, it means a Storm Lord. If you like, you can even learn each Tribe's ban in Klingon the First Tongue.
Yeah this was a pretty big obstacle for me. Apocalypse had made up poo poo too but it was mostly words you kind of already knew like Umbra or Gauntlet, or were referring to entirely fictional things like werewolf or spirit ranks. Most of Vampire's conlang was also pretty clear; "Blood Bond" kind of tells you most of what you need to know.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Halloween Jack posted:

TSR hit the supplement treadmill hard, to the point that gaming magazines like InQuest regularly ragged on them for publishing generic sourcebooks full of reprinted material.

Another problem was that rule-wise, every developer was going off in their own direction and they were all just stacking cruft onto AD&D2e, which didn't go nearly far enough in evolving from 1e in the first place. Like, Zeb Cook wanted to replace THAC0 with ascending to-hit and AC, but they were afraid it would make Baby cry. Reading the AD&D2e Player's Handbook depresses and angers me in equal measure.
I think my uncle has a physical copy of one of the big collections of Every Spell They Ever Published where it is very clear that someone did a find-replace to turn "mage" into "wizard," because a lot of things deal dawizard to things.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





PoontifexMacksimus posted:

What was the -phobia in Persona?
Others' details were stronger, I would say the best way to summarize it is that the stories are often queerbait-y, and this seems to be linked to a particular director/creative leader at the studio that makes them, whose name escapes me - it has impacted several other games made by that studio.


PoontifexMacksimus posted:

I mean, the game is still part dating sim, right, with all the baggage that entails? Where, like in P4, stringing along a harem of every available partner at the same time is mechanically optimal play?
I never got to P5 but in P4 I think most of the social links were in fact basically social unless you decided to Bone Down, with the exception of one character who pushed for a formal date early-- which was part of their whole baggage.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Maxwell Lord posted:

Yeah, Transhumanism was still a pretty niche concept at the time, but that's basically what this is. What I also like is that it's also very space opera- you've got your lizard people, warrior cultures, small fuzzy critters, and outright Bug Eyed Monsters.
I think this is a place where Eclipse Phase is limited by its vision of Hard Sci-Fi, very badly. Some of this is just the progression of science and technological knowledge, but some of it is also that Eclipse Phase plays by very specific rules that correspond to one particular version of technological progress, and which is taken as being the semi-objective nature of things. These include some ethical statements which are treated as physical laws, narratively if not literally.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





PurpleXVI posted:

I mean, no, honestly, no. EP is nowhere near anything I'd consider to be "hard" sci-fi, everything that's treated as "hard" sci-fi is mostly only to make it something the players won't interact with(physical interplanetary travel, for instance). The only thing that prevents it from being as laughable as Hc Svnt Dracones is that the political statements are slightly less laughable and that the setting actually has some things to do.
I'm not disagreeing, but Eclipse Phase tries very hard to act like it's hard SF, which Buck Rogers does not. This means Buck Rogers doesn't have to spackle in any logical gaps with "uhhh nanomachines... AIs... titans... people will accept magic if it's the fruit of the super AI, I guess", they can just go about their fictional business.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





JcDent posted:

I wondet how convincing a demon must be to be able to buy abstract concepts like that.

Or are people just humoring a weirdo and then suddenly finding out that its all true?
I think Demons can put up Resources dots for people so basically someone will literally buy your student debt and credentials from you. Or your lousy work history. Or your bad relationships that you regret. Cash money on the barrelhead.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





That Old Tree posted:

Demons can grant basically any Merit, but "external" stuff like Resources is harder and requires at least two separate pacts to get really crazy, unless the person is already doing pretty well.

As an aside, there's an off-hand mention of being able to boost Attributes, but the only core traits there are mechanics for are Merits and Skills.
Even so! "I would like to buy your regrettable college years, and in exchange you will at least be able to pay it off with money leftover, OR POSSIBLY, I am also accepting your debts" - this is a message that would probably get some replies on craigslist.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





JcDent posted:

How do you replenish your supply of "a lot"?
I think it's just something you, as a demon, can... do. Like sure, if you give a bunch of people Resources 5 out of a clear blue sky, it might attract the God-Machine's attention... but the important part there is "the God-Machine's attention," not "a bunch of people now have Resources 5." I think there was some changeling pact that was ruled completely legal where someone has to bake you cookies once a year as a show of affection and in return gets those Resources.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Joe Slowboat posted:

Wait someone called Jenna Moran an idiot dumbfuck, what the hell, she's great. Do not blaspheme the name, etc.
Can y'all tone down the Internet cult poo poo over Jenna Moran like four notches? Sidereals was not some immaculate tome disgorged by the Amida Buddha, beyond critique

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Jerik posted:

Hey now, let's not put the blame on the concept of immersion. I like immersion. It's one of the main things I play RPGs for. I just don't see how constantly heaping misery on the PCs is supposed to be a "recipe for immersion". If anything, having a GM who's so clearly out to get the PCs is antithetical to immersion, unless it's a feature of the setting that fate is supposed to be actively working against the characters.
For whatever emergent cultural reasons we tend to valorize negative emotions (despair, suffering, pain) as being more real, more legitimate, than positive emotions (joy, triumph, determination). Things that include mostly the latter tend to be treated as kiddy poo poo or wish fulfillment, so obviously things that include mostly the former must be the opposite: Cool things, for matures.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





If some enterprising boffin could figure out how to get something that looked, odds-wise, like the PBTA dice math, but using d10s-and-successes, you could probably become a thousandaire.

Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





lofi posted:

gently caress the rules, it's the density of proper nouns I struggle with.

The thing I dislike about the God Machine concept (aside from the initials being the GM ffs) is that it's so unreal that I don't know how players would know what bits to poke. In a real-world setting, you can figure out a reasonable plan to stop The Evil Plot, but in Demon do players just do something like a "And then they [science]" from star trek? Roll dice to get told by the GM what might work?
I think it depends somewhat on the demons' motives, which can include "hijack the thing so we get the juice" as well as "stop this to protect the mortals" and "study the thing so we can figure out more about our situation." But the Infrastructure might also be doing some Silent Hill-rear end poo poo and causing mysteries.

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Nessus
Dec 22, 2003

To witness titanic events is always dangerous, usually painful, and often fatal.





Night10194 posted:

The lack of interest in that is the bigger problem, yes. It's something I notice in a lot of games, not just CoD: There's not much consideration of what victory would look like or what people could be working towards.
A lot of nWoD games don't seem to be much for "succeeding," although it is certainly notable that they have moved away from oWoD, even if Vampire in both cases is still kind of "uh, survive, eat people i guess. become the new ruling body"

PurpleXVI posted:

See part of the problem I have with this approach to Modern Occult stuff is that it requires rewriting human nature. Because by this reading, a lot of what we consider to be ills that are simply the consequence of normal human behavior and idiocy, are suddenly the works of an extra-human conspiracy or force. This means that, in theory, WoD humanity is considerably nicer and more sensible than real world humanity, because the world would be less lovely if they were just left to do things on their own, apparently. Giving the responsibility for real-world ills to supernaturals or their conspiracies just... doesn't work.
Why not?

Like, it's completely fair if you want to say "I don't enjoy it," but why not? Why can't the fantasy world have humans who are basically dorks, and would still be dorks if the frankenstein computer gods were removed... but who would not be having their natural tendencies and flawed towards making blood slurries to fuel the engines of oppression?

"Humanity is intrinsically wicked" is not an objective fact, it is an aesthetic and moral interpretation of observed events. (And, even as an optimist, I will say that it sure as hell isn't a position without a lot of basis.)

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