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Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Some Guy TT posted:

im so used to psychos being portrayed as unambiguously heroic in less subtle visual media that i am extremely skeptical when both sidesism is employed to suggest that team psycho is morally conflicted because they express some minute self awareness of how monstrous they are

weirdly enough i do not have this problem with munich because the movie strongly implies that there may not actually be any evidence connecting the dudes the spy team is assassinating to the munich massacre and the ending subtitle explicitly confirms this little drummer girl may portray the mossad team as being dicks and the terrorists as having vaguely sympathetic motives but at the end of the day theyre still terrorists and no one seems to be losing that much sleep over what they did

munich is really goddamn good

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kavxsXhzD48

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Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


I really enjoyed magnolia when I first watched it but on a rewatch it's... not very good. the Aimee Mann stuff is just really fanboyish and everything with John c. Reilly and the woman with the coke is just bad. Tom cruise has an incredibly compelling first scene but then kind of does nothing. I'm not a big fan of the opening bits with the narration either.

now, The Master, now there's a fukkin movie

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Freaking Crumbum posted:

american audiences are just amused to play peek-a-boo with very high production values. it literally doesn't matter whether or not anyone involved in the entire process understands musical theory or can make intuitive judgments or has anything funny to say. it's just something to watch with your idiot family members while you try to decompress after another 10 hour hell shift at the job that you hate, where you all get to listen to popular songs and each make your own guesses to each other on the couch

like i get what you're saying, but from Fox's perspective it's much more effort / expense to ensure that the people involved are intelligent and/or funny and/or related to the music industry for not much more payoff. it's just another advertising vehicle and any effort entered beyond keeping the ad buys flowing is wasted

south korea, famous for jobs with reasonable hours that everyone loves

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


weren't the bad guys in die hard 3 like German neo nazis or something? of course it turned out they're just thieves like in every die hard

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


in another connection to lurid true crime stories of the 90s, the Jonbenet Ramsay ransom note had the phrase "don't try to grow a brain" which was a Dennis hopper line from Speed

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


frankly I've felt for a while now that Kanye hatred is extremely overblown. everybody brings up him being a dick to taylor swift in 2009, which... lol. he mildly embarrassed a world famous pop star at a fuckin awards show.

obviously all the poo poo with trump is wack but the Kanye hate started way before then. I've always thought it's a strange remnant of anti-rap sentiment in the early 2000s; remember people who listened to "everything except rap and country?" it's a quaint notion now that every top 40 song is either Atlanta trap or whatever you call drake's music

i dunno, it's hard to get too worked up about a rich, out of touch, mentally ill guy having confused political opinions when Chris brown made it to #5 on the charts last year

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


i will however grant that his last two albums were terrible

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


how does all of this hold up against full metal jacket

I certainly wouldn't call the Vietnamese humanized in that movie but the Americans hardly look good in that flick

while we're on the subject, what did you think of the Ken burns Vietnam war doc. I'm an unapologetic Ken burns fan and although the tone of the doc was definitely exceptionalist as hell i thought it was just really really well edited and the Vietnamese interviews were uniformly spectacular

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


mysterious frankie posted:

I've been thinking about it and Heaven & Earth by Oliver Stone is the only US made Vietnam War film coming to mind that tells the story from a Vietnamese person's perspective. Doesn't mean it's the only one, but it's the only one I can think of that deals with the people of Vietnam in conflict with themselves and America. I haven't seen it since I was like twelve though, so don't ask me if the messaging is on point.

I'm also reading the hey Arnold thread in the sci fi forum so I'll direct you to the mr. hyunh episode in hey Arnold

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


I liked the rotating lazy Susan thing on the stage in Hamilton

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Hodgepodge posted:

the only flaw really is that we hardly need aliens to show up and get us to see the universe deterministically; if anything, we have enough problems from about three centuries of naive determinism based on deeply flawed assumptions that were effectively monotheism masquerading as science that were on their way out even before quantum physics showed up, and even then people cling to it as what amounts to a pure superstition

the most amusing observation in that regard is that even aside from empirical evidence of nature being fundamentally schoastic, there's a problem with the determinism of newtonian phsycis where we assume our basic numbers (1, 2, etc) exist at all in nature. based on relationships observed in nature (pi being the best know example), integers are unnatural and ultimately innaccurate estimations. the whole idea of a clockwork universe likely breaks down even without chaos theory, qm, or Brownian motion, simply because there actually is no such thing as precise math in physics, just close enough rounding that our bridges don't fall down.

of course an actual math student could tell you that there are really simple equations that give different answers depending on how you approach them, making them indefinable. that's the problem with dividing by zero: it isn't incoherent, you just get different answers depending on your method and there's no way to call one answer correct and the other incorrect.

this... makes no sense. integers aren't "inaccurate estimations," they're a mental model, like all numbers. how many presidents named trump are there? our mental model of "presidents," "people," and "trump" all admit the idea of discrete, countable objects; the answer "one" is not an inaccurate estimation of the "true value." you can also ask the question "what is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter" and the answer is not an integer, but that's only within the mental model that defines a circle, its circumference, and its diameter. you could define the integers to be "1, 2, etc. plus also a special number that is the ratio of a circle's circumference to its diameter," and then pi really would be an integer, but you'd have to add a lot of special cases to all of your theorems about integers. none of this is inconsistent or an inaccurate representation of reality, it's just a choice of model.

physics mostly deals with real and complex numbers because those are useful models to describe our observed reality. but real numbers are not "rounded down too much" to give a correct picture of the universe; like all models, they give good predictions for some phenomenon and require lots of special cases for other phenomenon.

i'm not going to touch the dividing by zero thing since that is internet kryptonite

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Hodgepodge posted:

there is "one President Trump" in that objects are self-identical, sure.

when say "we have x apples" and that's accurate in our symbolic order. the apples aren't identical objects, however. that they are members of a set of x objects of a particular class is a relationship designated by our symbolic order. so we recognize these similar objects as all being apples, and that there are x of them, but regardless of the value of x, that number isn't a product of nature, it's a product of symbolic relations.

technically, it's trivial to say that most measurements we make on a newtownian scale are strictly speaking inaccurate, because we don't have a way of measuring things at what we have reason to believe is the lowest possible scale. there are also huge issues with measurement in science, in that whatever you take as your basic unit for measurement (say the speed of light) gets baked into your model of the entire system in ways which can lead to inaccurate assumptions. (iirc this came up as background material in an article about theorists considering a variable speed of light over the life of the universe to account for inflation, which probably didn't go anywhere but the problem itself with measurement is a fundamental thing).

i'm not really sure if the distinction between "(strictly) inaccurate estimations" and "mental models" you want to draw here is at all meaningful. we have useful mental models which can be used to a great but far from arbitrary precision (and also to use as building blocks for much more complex and potentially accurate models). however, their usefulness and seeming naturalness obscures the fact that they are purely symbols, not natural units. "1," "2," etc are necessary symbols, but the concepts they represent are something we need in order to understand nature, not part of nature itself. pi is much more important to nature- not the number, but the relationship the number describes.

you're exactly right in that numbers are a product of symbolic relations, not nature. but that's true of the reals too, not just integers. integers are not imperfect representations of the actual value of some measurement in nature; as you point out, our choice of how to measure something is itself somewhat arbitrary.

to get back to the original point about Arrival, the reason newtonian physics isn't completely deterministic is not that we're rounding too much or something like that. if we developed calipers that were 10x more accurate and supercomputers to crunch measurements that were way more precise, newtonian physics would not get more accurate at the quantum scale. quantum physics is fundamentally a completely different model than newtonian physics and it's the current state of the art for making predictions at microscopic levels, but it's still imperfect and it's ultimately been derived empirically, not from first principles.

there are some godelian arguments to be made about why it might never be possible to develop a completely predictive model of the physical universe, which might be what you're getting at. over the last 5000 years or so we've developed mathematics as a pretty good tool for making predictions of the universe, but it's possible that the universal physical principles that control our physical reality might not actually map closely to our modern mathematics after all.

you may be interested in hamming's responses to The Unreasonable Effectiveness of Mathematics, explaining why our perception of physics as "math-like" may be partially selection bias:

http://www.dartmouth.edu/~matc/MathDrama/reading/Hamming.html

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


I like eyes wide shut better anyway

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Some Guy TT posted:

https://twitter.com/BeijingPalmer/status/1284301706650685440?p=v

i just realized that the reason i hated burning so much was because it was basically this except i appear to be the only person to have come to this extremely obvious conclusion based on the evidence that was presented

come to think of it this is also a pretty common twist in basically anything that could be called a mystery particularly procedural police shows so i seriously doubt just seeing the trope play out by itself does poo poo to affect peoples perception of the cops

i think prisoners comes the closest to playing it in such a way we could see the cop analog as a bad person rather than just misguided but what a surprise we end up with a secret double twist that ends up making him the hero anyway

yeah this plot is like 40% of all SVU episodes for instance. also this plot plays out twice in bong joon-ho's memories of murder

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


bong joon-Ho can't help but make song kang-Ho likable even when he's coercing confessions for days on end. you just love the guy

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Dr. Killjoy posted:

There’s no chronological or geographic rationale but I always figured Holden Caulfield would grow up to be Humbert Humbert.

not sure if you were thinking of this but nabokov did like JD salinger and they were of course both active around the same time:

http://www.thenabokovian.org/sites/default/files/2018-01/NABOKV-L-0021133___body.html

for some reason i remembered a rumor that nabokov WAS salinger, since salinger was so reclusive, but i think i was misremembering another rumor that thomas pynchon was salinger (or vice-versa). thomas pynchon took one of nabokov's courses at cornell

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Egg Moron posted:

been trying to start watching Assault on Precinct 13 for 15 minutes but I keep replaying the first two minutes over and over for that incredible theme track

I've only seen assault on precinct 13 once but frankly it didn't blow me away; the little girl getting murked in the beginning is pretty tasteless and the whole thing about how it's a remake of night of the living dead but with inner city gangs instead of zombies is pretty tough to get past nowadays. the soundtrack really does rip poo poo up though

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


i will admit that i LOVE escape from new york even though its premise hinges on the same vague racialized "crime" that apparently overtakes america in the late 80s or so

escape from new york is a great example of a movie that succeeds even though it's very front-loaded. that scene at the beginning where snake is handcuffed at lee van cleef's desk is just so atmospheric and good. i love how lee van cleef still keeps cigarettes in a case on his desk in the far-off future of 1997 and snake just helps himself to one

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


luckily I know carpenter's not a chud because They Live is the one of the most leftist movies of the 80s

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Some Guy TT posted:

anyway in todays edition of some guy itt was watching cable anybody else find it kind of weird that randall in monsters inc is identified as being the bad guy basically because hes kind of a dick for most of the movie mike and sully just think he was trying to cheat in their completely meaningless leaderboard competition

contrast this with sully knowingly breaking a safety regulation and then proceeding to put the lives of literally every single person he meets in danger by dragging a walking uncontrollable emt weapon with him everywhere while he tries to figure out a way to get rid of it without getting in trouble with the cops

then by the time we get back to randall and learn his real motivation its literally a trolley problem style ethical dilemma for which hes treated as being completely evil for being on the wrong side and the disastrous consequences of preventing the experiment on boo are totally papered over by having sully pull a bullshit magical solution out of his rear end

although i suppose the most cspammish objection i could make to the movie is that the cops are depicted as the good guys doing a long term sting on the orphan powered electricity machine which seems fantastically improbable given that you know theyre loving cops

i dont get why people like inc more than university see university is a shockingly relatable portrayal of how actually college can really loving suck because cliques still exist your life can be ruined if you cant figure out how to study right and the only way to get ahead is by working your rear end off and exploiting technical loopholes thats the message our kids should be learning not that government regulations are made up bullshit and that cops actually care about the rules

the incredibles, of course, is the other big pixar film that flirts with outright libertarian or even randian messaging, although the ultimate message of the incredibles is that talented people should help out everybody equally so it's not quite atlas shrugged. still, the beginning is essentially "some people are naturally superior to others and useless regulations and government bureaucrats conspire to keep them down," which hits a lot different these days. i suppose it's possible that a lot of that is just carryover from the natural fascism of the superhero genre

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


there's probably an alternate universe where LMM made a musical version of the October revolution and earned the undying love of leftists everywhere

like how in kaiserreich all the big historical figures wind up with the opposite ideology of whatever they had in real life

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


are there any rosemary's baby truthers out there? rosemary's baby is SO good and it seems to me that it's such an incredible depiction of an abusive relationship that it's unbelievable that roman polanski made it. how could someone like that make a movie like this?

it's been lavishly praised elsewhere but the dr. hill sequence in the second half of the movie is incredible. obviously very relevant today with public distrust of doctors being in the news and all

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


i suppose that's probably the (depressing) correct answer.

after posting that last night, i actually found an interview where polanski said "For credibility's sake, I decided that there would have to be a loophole: the possibility that Rosemary's supernatural experiences were figments of her imagination. The entire story, as seen through her eyes, could have been a chain of only superficially sinister coincidences, a product of her feverish fancies ... That is why a thread of deliberate ambiguity runs throughout the film."

i actually do not find that in rosemary's baby at all. her husband and her doctors are behaving like fuckin loons and her creepy-rear end neighbors are not normal; perhaps it's just because everyone knows the ending but there is no real doubt that something bad is happening to rosemary. it's interesting (and frightening) to think that polanski could've thought that the people around rosemary could be interpreted as totally reasonable

one of the most affecting scenes to me is the part where rosemary finally gets alone with her friends and they instantly tell her that she looks like poo poo and that having your doctor dismiss all of your pain and concerns is not good. rosemary is drowning for the rest of the film and that scene is her coming getting her head above water for a second

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


so it's been a little over a year: what's the consensus on Us (2019, jordan peele)

instant classic? sophomore slump? good usage of "i got 5 on it"?

personally, i loved it. the imagery of the underground clone labs was incredibly evocative and obviously lupita nyong'o was fantastic

interesting to compare the class conflict angle of the tethered vs. the surface people with the other big class conflict movie of 2019: parasite

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


i blame the dark knight for starting the very-long-runtime trend. 152 minutes, and frankly you really feel it on the rewatch

the dark knight really has dropped out of the public discourse, huh? remember when it was the #1 imdb movie? i remember that for a while the wikipedia page described it not as a "superhero film" but as a "crime film" lol

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Alhazred posted:

It would be hard for any movie to stay in the public discourse for twelve years.

I dunno, big Lebowski? alien? Star Wars? the dark knight was pretty obviously hyped up at the time as a modern classic but it faded very fast, is my point

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


dark knight rises changed the world by giving us baneposting

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


infinite jest is good. i'll grant that dfw was about as straight and white as they come and so his poc and trans characters in IJ are... not great. but it's still good

i strongly suspect that the anti-dfw folks should really be directing their hate towards dave eggers instead, but i've never read a dave eggers book

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


poptimism and the general takeover of hip-hop in pop music in the mid-2010s has made the mainstream music scene a lot less balkanized. in the early 2000s you had your blog music, remnants of scenesters, club rap, country, etc., and the various fans mostly stayed away from each other. nowadays everybody everywhere is giving their hot take on the new taylor album and every rap song has a dababy feature with the same exact flow

i actually like rap these days (and most new music) but it's pretty same-y and therefore it's hard to make stereotypes about people via music preferences

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Aglet56 posted:

One time I was drinking with my coworkers after a work event and one of them got some edibles (prior to legalization) so I ate one and we made our way over to the metreon in SF, hoping to see a movie. Our choice? Prometheus

We had taken just long enough to get to the theatre that I was high as balls by the time we were buying our tickets, so I got in line at chipotle and told them I'd meet them in the theatre. By the time I got up to the movie I was way too high to find my coworkers in a dark theatre so I grabbed a seat at the end of an aisle and happily ate my burrito. I don't have a clear memory of the first half of the movie but I got to the squid c-section part and said "well I'm going home" and bailed. My coworkers had no idea where I was until I came into the office the next day

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Hodgepodge posted:

i think it got a lot of backlash for being ahead of the curve and was extremely cspam when we were but a glimmer in the corpse of lf's eye

like the map guy who gets lost is basically a self-employed libertarian cernovich-style furry with a startup that sells fancy mapping drones

e: read it as you will, but i also kind of feel like you're meant to sort of feel like vickers kind of gets done dirty. if nothing else, taking the chance to gently caress irdis elba has to be in the top 5 or so smartest decisions in the film
e2: even if it is kind of what gets mapguy and the steve irwin dude with a huge mancrush on him killed

idris elba had a great little role in prometheus

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


I'm rewatching The Host (2006, Bong Joon-Ho) and it's much better than I remember

And I had totally forgotten the subplot where a virus outbreak forces the entire Korean public to wear masks at all times (although note that the virus is a deep state hoax)

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


the ol' reverse mulan

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


it's okay to hate stuff for the sole reason that it's made by a multi billion dollar conglomerate

but also, this is a really dumb critique. marvel movies might superficially show that having an unaccountable team of superpowered cops running the world has some downsides, but at the end of the movie the avengers still exist. does every marvel movie actually have a sad ending and us dumb leftists just can't see it? or is the moral of every marvel movie just "not all cops are bad"

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


I mean all of them, like all superhero movies, boil down to "unaccountable law enforcement is good when implemented properly"

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Hodgepodge posted:

in their rush to give us another death star they forgot that the whole idea of vader is that he's way more powerful than a death star. and yeah, the FO could just be an imperial remnant that is attracting lots of support and unifying the others into a real threat, and their secret weapon is kylo himself. way more interesting, and it makes the connection between rey and kylo way more important. and here's an idea- have some relationships which mirror this in various ways. like maybe phasma hates finn so much because she loathes the fo and wishes she had the courage to leave. maybe poe and hux are set up as foils.

the established fact is that if one side has jedi or sith and the other doesn't, the side with the magic space wizards wins every time. with half an ounce of understanding or maybe just some weed and discussion, they might have understood that this should be fairly easy to establish intuitively as why the fo is unbeatable.

also the whole mindset of the st is mired in what is increasingly evident as de-facto disney ideology, based on girlbosses, heroic cia agents, and barely concealed support for the democrats as heroic underdogs. whereas the whole point of the pt is that attachment to and identification with the interests of the republic lead the jedi to the dark side and clouded their vision of the force once those interests were overtly threatened. whereas the point of the ot in light of this is precisely that it is the common cause against evil, not jedi (republic) ideology, which allows luke to attain victory. unfortunately, the dark side also clouds the minds of disney executives, so they cannot even understand something as basic as star wars.

i love this

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


stand up comedy as a distinct genre is also on the decline. twitter (and social media in general) definitely played a part in that; the form factor of the internet means that shareable content needs to be very punchy and distinctive, and so only certain forms of stand-up survived. aggressive political humor (however lame and succ) is at least amenable to the usual clickbait social media tactics that prioritize outrage and so on, so it can last longer than the rest

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


Doctor Jeep posted:

isn't this the inevitable thing with each and every one of these people who make a tv show or a movie that is an incisive critique of the system and then you look at their tweets or articles and turns out they're the libbiest of libs

aka the David Simon effect

Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


so I rewatched snowpiercer the other night. still good, but just as messy as I remembered. I think bong Joon-ho's penchant for genre switching worked against him a bit here, particularly in the schoolroom section, which is very funny but messes with the pacing a lot

the protein block scene is still very silly

song kang-Ho rocks. I like how they show that they invented universal translators as a throwaway

has anybody seen the tv show yet? it looks... not good

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Aglet56
Sep 1, 2011


anybody listen to the new sufjan album yet

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