Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Serf posted:

yeah except that movie depicted those things as bad. joker has marginalized citizens putting on clown masks and beating up the cops and killing the rich and it never really tries to make that look bad

The movie is basically "Give the poor and the sick what they need or else they will rise up around the wrong charismatic populist figurehead" so I mostly liked it. There's incel stuff in there. The discourse around the latter would be bearable if more people were talking about the former, because ignoring the films thesis... proves it correct?

But yes its also derivative of the obvious things, but of all of them it's most like Fight Club in that it will be loved and co-opted by chuds who aren't really thinking about it either, which is lame because nobody should have to think that hard about it.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Serf posted:

i read no incel themes in the movie. that seems largely engineered by media libs to distract from the obvious class war narrative that the movie creates. seemingly by accident, since todd phillips is a huge moron, but that's not surprising. most movies with interesting themes develop them unconsciously

I dont know how deep into spoilers we can really get here, but what is real/not real and what we see/don't see regarding one character can easily be picked apart by nature of its vagueness.

anywho:
https://twitter.com/leslieleeiii/status/1178671999968776192

I am buying stock in the take linked above (even though the real answer is US, with honorable mention to DUMBO)

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



cargo cult posted:

the director has been doing the rounds whining about how the "far left' are censoring him so its safe to say that wasnt his intent lol

His quote is “What’s outstanding to me in the discourse of this movie is how easily the far left can sound like the far right when it suits their agenda.”

He's a horseshoe theory guy. There are a ton of class reductionists who wince at idpol. Boots Riley does it too. LOL not saying Todd is some anti-cap revolutionary - he's a chud - but there's nothing surprising about a guy who made a populist movie whining about idpols.

Regardless, this is a movie where Joker's only (on-screen) victims are Wall Street brokers and people who financially exploit his mental illness for ratings. He inspires a populist uprising. Cops are bad. His boss is bad. The rich businessman running for office is bad. The media lionizes the rich white victims. His meds and therapy are subject to austerity cuts. It's hard to convince me this many things get in there 'unintentionally'

MasterSitsu has issued a correction as of 18:27 on Oct 5, 2019

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Bro Dad posted:

the director is also an anti-union shitbag whose other claim to fame is making the hangover movies

Like Sorkin he's an anti-WGA dick who in the same breath claims to be for unions in principle. None of this is a defense, I'm just saying none of this is real evidence to me that the things in Joker are an accident (especially when its co-written by a guy who has made other works sympathetic to poor, sick, or addicted persons)

https://twitter.com/t_ruggeri/status/1179130071870656512?s=20

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Serf posted:

yeah i know what you're referring to and i think that if you put it in the context of the other time during the film that we see that plot element come up, it seems less that he has an unfulfilled desire for sexual intimacy and more that he just wants intimacy of any kind

Attention of any kind. Failed professional clown/aspiring stand up comedian. Psychiatrists arent listening to him, boss doesnt listen to him/believe him, relationships both real and imagined are given and taken away. It's more that he has no positive attention whatsoever rather than the entitlement to it that we associate with incels.

In fact, his first victims are the ones that felt entitled to womens attention/affection

And he's not even really.... jealous of anyone in the film. The... uh.... kid.... in the film, he's not resentful or jealous of, he is trying to get attention/connection there just as much.

MasterSitsu has issued a correction as of 00:19 on Oct 6, 2019

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



http://www.outono.net/elentir/2019/10/05/joker-the-perverse-idea-that-this-formally-excellent-film-promotes/

I found an anti-Marxist Joker review that hates it for the same reasons I liked it.

quote:

“Joker” introduces us to the protagonist as a victim of violence and injustice. So far this film has a common element with many other cinematographic works that have not generated any controversy. In addition, the Joker is an upset man, to the point that it causes you grief. Again, there is nothing wrong with a movie raising that issue. The problem comes when the movie presents the Joker as a victim of the “system”. Several times that word is mentioned during the feature film. But also, and here comes what I liked least, the film tells the story of the Joker in a way that supports that idea: the rich are portrayed as heartless to those who do not care about the fate of those who have less (Thomas Wayne, which in other films is a philanthropist, this time it is a scoundrel and refers to those disadvantaged as “clowns”), so that the violence of those disadvantaged against the rich ends up looking like understandable and logical.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



https://www.facebook.com/mmflint/posts/10156278766436857

LOLOLOLOL

quote:

On Wednesday night I attended the New York Film Festival and witnessed a cinematic masterpiece, the film that last month won the top prize as the Best Film of the Venice International Film Festival. It’s called “Joker” — and all we Americans have heard about this movie is that we should fear it and stay away from it. We’ve been told it’s violent and sick and morally corrupt — an incitement and celebration of murder. We’ve been told that police will be at every screening this weekend in case of “trouble.” Our country is in deep despair, our constitution is in shreds, a rogue maniac from Queens has access to the nuclear codes — but for some reason, it’s a movie we should be afraid of.

I would suggest the opposite: The greater danger to society may be if you DON’T go see this movie. Because the story it tells and the issues it raises are so profound, so necessary, that if you look away from the genius of this work of art, you will miss the gift of the mirror it is offering us. Yes, there’s a disturbed clown in that mirror, but he’s not alone — we’re standing right there beside him.

“Joker” is no superhero or supervillain or comic book movie. The film is set somewhere in the ‘70s or ‘80s in Gotham City - and the filmmakers make no attempt to disguise it for anything other than what it is: New York City, the headquarters of all evil: the rich who rule us, the banks and corporations for whom we serve, the media which feeds us a daily diet “news” they think we should absorb. This past week, a week when a sitting President indicted himself because, in true Joker style, he was laughing himself silly at Mueller’s and the Dems’ inability to stop him, so he just quadrupled down and handed them everything they needed. But even then, after ten days of his flaunting his guilt, he was still sitting with his KFC grease-stained nuclear codes in the Oval Office, so he told
Captain Sketchy to fire up the helicopter, the sound of its blades revving up, meant only to alert the reporters to scurry outside for the daily “press conference” — Trump walks outside into the deafening cacophony of the whirlybird and publicly and feloniously asks the Peoples Republic of China to interfere in our 2020 election by sending him dirt on the Bidens. He and his magic carpet of hair then walked away and, other than the citizen howls of “CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS?!”, nothing happened. As “Joker” opens this weekend, Joker, Jr. Is still still sitting at John F. Kennedy’s desk in the Oval Office on the days he shows up to work, dreaming of his next conquest and debauchery.

But this movie is not about Trump. It’s about the America that gave us Trump — the America which feels no need to help the outcast, the destitute. The America where the filthy rich just get richer and filthier.

Except in this story a discomfiting question is posed: What if one day the dispossessed decide to fight back? And I don’t mean with a clipboard registering people to vote. People are worried this movie may be true
oo violent for them. Really? Considering everything we’re living through in real life? You allow your school to conduct “active shooter drills” with your children, permanently, emotionally damaging them as we show these little ones
that this is the life we’ve created for them. “Joker” makes it clear we don’t really want to get to the bottom of this, or to try to understand why innocent people turn in to Jokers after they can no longer keep it together. No one wants to ask why two smart boys skipped their 4th-hour AP French Philosophy class at Columbine High to slaughter 12 students and a teacher. Who would dare ask why the son of a vice-president of General Electric would go into Sandy Hook Elementary in
Newtown, CT and blow the tiny bodies apart of 20 first-graders. Or why did 53% of White women vote for the presidential candidate who, on tape, reveled in his talent as a sexual predator?

The fear and outcry over “Joker” is a ruse. It’s a distraction so that we don’t look at the real violence tearing up our fellow human beings — 30 million Americans who don’t have health insurance is an act of violence. Millions of abused women and children living in fear is an act of violence. Cramming 59 students like worthless sardines into classrooms in Detroit is an act of violence.

As the news media stands by for the next mass shooting, you and your neighbors and co-workers have already been shot numerous times, shot straight through all of your hearts and hopes and dreams. Your pension is long gone. You’re in debt for the next 30 years because you committed the crime of wanting an education. You have actually thought about not having children because you don’t have the heart to bring them onto a dying planet where they are given a 20-year death-by-climate-change sentence at birth. The violence in “Joker”? Stop! Most of the violence in the movie is perpetrated on the Joker himself, a person in need of help, someone trying to survive on the margins of a greedy society. His crime is that he can’t get help. His crime is that he is the butt of a joke played on HIM by the rich and famous. When the Joker decides he can no longer take it — yes, you will feel awful. Not because of the (minimal) blood on the screen, but because deep down, you were cheering him on - and if you’re honest when that happens, you will thank this movie for connecting you to a new desire — not to run to the nearest exit to save your own rear end but rather to stand and fight and focus your attention on the nonviolent power you hold in your hands every single day. Thank you Joaquin Phoenix, Todd Phillips, Warner Bros. and all who made this important movie for this important time. I loved this film’s multiple homages to Taxi Driver, Network, The French Connection, Dog Day Afternoon. How long has it been since we’ve seen a movie aspire to the level of Stanley Kubrick? Go see this film. Take your teens. Take your resolve.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Serf posted:

this is what i thought before i saw the movie, but it never really shows the protesters doing anything bad. like the obvious comparison is tdkr, where nolan went out of his way to show stuff like the rioters beating up defenseless people, holding kangaroo court trials leading to executions and had catwoman be appalled at something as simple as people taking over a rich person's mansion and living in it. nolan clearly wanted you to think this stuff was bad. todd phillips is a much worse filmmaker, so he doesn't have this element in the film. the protesters-turned-rioters are set off by the government cuts and sanitation worker strike > joker killing three finance bros on the subway > cops pursuing joker killing a random protester > joker admitting to the killings on live tv and then killing murray franklin. then we see rioters and looters burning cop cars, fighting the police and smashing storefronts etc. there's just no scene that shows them going too far, or doing something that an average audience member would consider beyond the pale. the cops suck, and no one cares when they killed beat down and their poo poo gets destroyed. i don't think the movie has a pro-leftist message, but it uses the visual language of anti-capitalism and revolt and is either too lazy or too dumb to show you why you should think those things are bad

thomas wayne, usually a saintly figure in batman lore, is a major dick who goes on tv and talks about how rich people who "made something" of themselves will always see poor people as clowns so long as they protest. and wayne never gets a redemption. when he gets gunned down in the alley, do you feel bad for him? i didn't, and the movie never even tries to make you like him.

I just wish other superhero flicks were subject to this kind of scrutiny. Mainstream outlets never run articles about what idolizing Batman could do to a kid, and even if they wanted to they would be stopped because page 8 is an ad of Alfred Pennyworth vaping.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Freaking Crumbum posted:

saw joker last night and the worst part for me was that it was called joker.

the batman related content within the film is so minor that you could change just two details (gotham > new york, thomas wayne > thomas smith) and not lose anything and i feel like it would have been a stronger film for it. hell you could still have phoenix be a clown-themed psycho and keep all of those elements and plot beats and it would still make sense in the context of the film if it wasn't titled "joker"

i feel like somebody wrote a completely serviceable love letter to falling down and then WB found it and paid them to make it about the iconic villain The Joker in the most tenuous way possible.

also if you read the leaked script from a few weeks back, it was nearly 100% dead-on accurate, so if you don't want to see the movie but for some reason still crave a plot synopsis, just google the leak

It's functionally similar to Falling Down, except that Falling Down is an angry authoritarian who know what things should be, whereas Joker gradually moves from care bear to nihilist.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Percelus posted:

nightcrawler absolutely wants you to hate the main character so it's more of a critique than an endorsement of psychopaths that thrive in capitalism

falling down is a really hosed up movie

drive's soundtrack slaps and has really beautiful cinematography

Of all of these movies Drive is the most certain that the protagonist is actually a hero. I hate it. It's pretty, some of the music is good. The dialogue is poo poo/hilariously absent and the story is rancid.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



WampaLord posted:

see also: watchmen

Someone brought an infant to Once Upon A Time in Hollywood. The baby was thankfully.... quiet. However, rather than realizing their mistake, the parents took a couple "Baby's first movie!" selfies mid-film.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



get that OUT of my face posted:

who gives a poo poo about South Park anymore? it's almost exclusively relied on topical humor for years now. the political bent of such episodes has been discussed to death, so i won't bother doing that. instead i'll talk about it from a comedy angle- those episodes are destined to age terribly, and many of them already have. for a show that famously trashed Family Guy, it shares the same kind of winking and nudging "reference as the joke" humor that assumes that you get the joke

Basically this but the episode is pretty good anyways and good on them for taking one for the team, I guess. I will say watching South Park reckon with its past over the last couple years has been interesting to me if nothing else.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



get that OUT of my face posted:



i heard that the first season that had a season-wide arc was good, but it reverted to trash in short order


Yes and no, in that the season relied on Hillary winning the election, and since they don't plan far enough ahead, they were kind of left scrambling to tie everything back together.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



The cops in my conspiracy show aren't clearly depicted as bad therefore they must be good for the entire run of my conspiracy show

https://twitter.com/bransonreese/status/1186635835497680896?s=20

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



MizPiz posted:

Easily the best Christian song produced

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R-znj7Uf9Oo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G_OJsO8xnRQ

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



Peanut President posted:

does watchmen the tv show really take place in fuckin oklahoma?

Yes. It literally starts with the 1921 Tulsa riots. Might seem like a weird location for a major show, but thematically it already seems to have justified itself.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



gradenko_2000 posted:

calling it a riot rather obscures who was doing what, and what they were doing

it was the 1921 Bombing of Black Wall Street

I'm Canadian and only learned of it this week, most people including wikipedia called it the Tulsa Race Riot. force of habit.

Anywho, based on that framing and the naming of the 7th Cavalry as the white supremacist cult, my main theory is the show, plotwise, will be about white supremacists and a complicit police conspiracy to start a new civil war.

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



https://twitter.com/Disney_PIus/status/1191740311082549248?s=20

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

MasterSitsu
Nov 23, 2013



KomradeX posted:

At somepoint in the last 20 years every Christmas movie became that.

Like what's the last good Christmas movie made before they all became RomComs? Elf?

KLAUS legitimately deserves a Criterion release

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply