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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Excellent squad. Glad to see Hogg there - I hope he starts. He was the stand-out fullback this year. Generally glad to see good Scottish representation - well-deserved. No single team has really dominated the others so the split seems pretty representative to me.

I think AWJ is a terrific player but watching this yearís 6N thought that he was slightly past his best. Who will start with him? Iíd go with Itoje: heís so talented and his mobility will pair well with AWJ (who is less mobile).

Iím from SA and I think this squad is packed with talent and could well win the series. It should be a cracker. The 2009 series was one of the best Iíve seen so I hope this approaches that level.

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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Northern hemisphere rugby is pretty strong at the moment, so the Lions squad is packed with talent. I think it's a really good team, but as others have said there were lots of options. Mako got pushed around at RWC2019, so no surprise there that he's out. When watching 6N I thought Hogg was the stand-out 15 so I am glad he's in. Price deserves it too. VD Merwe and Watson were both brilliant in 6N. There are so many good loose forwards but Curry has been outstanding. Once AWJ was in then Itoje was pretty likely, I thought. He's such a fast, athletic player to balance the heft of AWJ. The only slight surprise to me is Lawes on the flank - I thought he was a mobile lock?

It should be a cracking series. 2009 was an incredible series and I hope this matches it. It has the potential, given that SA is pretty strong at the moment too. (I'm a Bok fan, BTW). i wouldn't want to call it but I think the Lions remarkable strength in depth might overcome the Boks' familiarity and combinations.

I am glad to see such Scottish representation, which is deserved. Seeing Scotland regain strength (and style) has been such a pleasure.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Vaders Jester posted:

Yeah, I think they want extra lineout options to try to at least get parity with a really strong lock pairing that SA have so went with Lawes over Beirne.

Yeah, I figured line out plus some extra bulk. Lawes is pretty mobile but he doesnít quite get around the park like eg Navidi.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Nobody commenting on how Watson should have had a yellow if not a red for the tackle on Le Roux? A number of ref calls were marginal but that was a very clear error. Lions had a terrific 2nd half and deserved to win but Watson off for ten (or the rest of the game) could have been huge. The line out prior to lions try was very crooked.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

Pretty sure the Venn diagram of people commenting on it and the people who thought Botiaís blatant shoulder to Damian McKenzieís head a few weeks ago in the first All Blacks v. Fiji test is a flat circle.

Iím not sure what point youíre making, but I doubt that Fiji losing a player would have affected the result, whereas the Lions going down to 14 for 10 minutes or even the rest of the game could have been decisive.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

It's just a gripe about a clear double standard at the judicial level.

But yeah, specifically this poo poo, which is praised and celebrated, often by the very same people that turn around and condemn Watson's tip tackle (which he should have at the very least gotten a yellow for).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wv5IX9nN8ys

Direct contact with the head, no mitigating factors, it's a straight red if there ever was one. Number of weeks on the sideline for Botia as a result of a visit to the judiciary? 0.

This specific video is hosted on the official youtube channel of a national governing body, for gently caress's sake. Until this bullshit stops being celebrated, and consistently policed by the WR judiciary, any talk of concussion protocols will be just that: talk.


But then again, I vividly remember the down-playing of Vunipola's shoulder-charge at Beauden Barrett's head in the second test 4 years ago, and the lack of any citing.

Ah. i just watched that clip. Looks like a straight red to me, and if not on the field then a ban afterwards. It's clear to me that Watson should have had at least a yellow if not a red. That seems to be consensus though.

Given how strong N Hemisphere rugby is right now the Lions squad has huge depth, so should be very hard to beat on Saturday. I wouldn't change much about that team except for Cowan-Dickie, as the lineouts were wobbly, but given the depth it's hard to argue with any of the changes.

SA suffered from a tactical rigidity, which is not new for us. I think we will come back strongly and hopefully with more acumen, but am not very confident.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

HappyCamperGL posted:

Whole bunch o' changes

British and Irish Lions: Williams; Adams, Henshaw, Aki, Van der Merwe; Biggar, Price; Jones, Owens, Furlong, Itoje, A Wyn Jones (c), Lawes, Curry, Conan

Replacements: Cowan-Dickie, Vunipola, Sinckler, Beard, Simmonds, Murray, Russell, Daly

No real arguments from me other than vd Merwe is lucky that he was not dropped and that Watson was (who was unlucky to be dropped). I really like Hogg but this kind of game is not his strong suit and Williams is a better pick. If you have Russell at 10 running an attacking backline then Hogg makes sense, but not if the game is so aerial. I think Aki and Henshaw make a terrific centre pairing.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Vaders Jester posted:

Watson was worse in the air that VDM, but the whole backline was awful on Saturday so hard to pick anyone out to get dropped.

I thought that Vdm Was thoroughly rattled while Watson kept some composure but yes, broadly agreed.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Vaders Jester posted:

There's an interesting stat come from Ben Smith at Rugbypass(so take with a pinch) that any contestable kick chase, across both tests, that has had Duhan as a gunner or directly competing for the ball, SA have had 0% success with. If that's true, then it might explain why he's kept his spot I suppose.

It sure would. Even if itís not 100% accurate but broadly representative itís a more compelling case for keeping him.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

MyChemicalImbalance posted:

70 minutes of Finn? :getin:

Heís playing really well. Iím bricking it. Lions looking v dangerous. We are clinging on by the skin of our teeth

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Looke posted:

At least we know now that if you want a win, just release a 30 min video of you criticising every decision the ref made in the first match

Or you could blame poor decision making which leaves points on the table and doesnít convert territorial and possession dominance into points.

Donít forget that Gatland started the whole refereeing issue by attacking the TMO.

therattle fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 7, 2021

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat


Jesus Christ, that website is like the rugby equivalent of the Daily Mail.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

CyberPingu posted:

Oh really? Lol I didn't realise. I generally don't read rugby articles online tbh but that somehow ended up in my newsfeed.

I had a look (never heard of it before) and the tone is soooo over the top.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

Who gives a poo poo about Quade Cooper, when you've got BEAUDEN loving BARRETT

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4WPhqw2zlY

Phwoar

No doubt BB is terrific and probably best in the world but itís easy to look good against a clearly inferior team and behind a dominant pack.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Sa-NZ was a terrific Test.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

Not counting any dumbshit repeaters and boomerang students, the All Blacks' current tenure with the Bledisloe Cup has gone on longer than all secondary school students in both countries have been alive.

As far as I am concerned the ABs are and pretty much always are the best team in the world. I say that as a Bok fan.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Madkal posted:

This thread is mostly dead but I just wanna say BOKKE!

Thank you

Seconded. Terrific match for a neutral to watch, I reckon.

Some tough calls against Steyn, I thought.

We are going to really miss Vermeulen

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

As an All Blacks supporter, it was a very frustrating test to watch, and IMO, the Rugby Championships should end any further discussion about Ardie Savea's suitability as captain.

They really missed Sam Whitelock, and one he was unavailable, Foster made a major mistake in not appointing Retallick as captain. A really telling stat was that in the 4 tests Savea captained, they only out-scored the opposition in the second half once - the return fixture against Argentina, after a Retallick-led All Blacks side had beaten the same team 39-0 the previous week.

The last 30 minutes of the final three tests were infuriating to watch, as the All Blacks just kept retreating into their shells, so once the Boks got their tails up in the second half of the final fixture, they just couldn't deal with it.

I think that the ABs are so used to winning and being on the front foot that when an opponent manages to destabilise them they don't always know how to respond. SA put them under huge pressure at the breakdown, under the high ball, at scrum, lineouts, and with the rush defence, so NZ wasn't able to establish domination like they usually do. I take your point that a better captain may have been able to turn that around. I still think that they are the best team in the world though, and beating you always feels like it's unexpected, and the sweetest of victories (except maaaybe the Lions).

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

Scotland has a pretty strong recent record against Australia, and along with the All Blacks and England, are one of the big bogey teams for the Wallabies right now.

Also, Wales were absolutely robbed against the Springboks. gently caress that loving drunken fuckwit who interfered with the play.

Wales werenít robbed. There MAY have been a try but there were cover tacklers, and as the game went on SA increased its dominance. (That guy was a dick though). Wales was getting hammered in the scrum, mauls, a bit less at breakdown but SA was turning the screws.
I thought that Wales got away with pretty much every line out throw being crooked.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

There's an open tryline in front of Williams who would have had every chance of making it.




Sure, there's no guarantee that Wales would have won had the idiot not obstructed them, but when the final margin is 5 points, who knows how things could have turned out.

Obviously I am an SA fan, but I am not particularly one-eyed (and I actually really like Wales). An incident like that slightly diminishes the integrity of the SA win, but it's stronger than "there was no guarantee" - I don't think he would have scored (although he might have). He isn't getting the ball at pace - he's overrun it slightly and he has to check his run to collect it. That is what gave time for the cover tacklers to arrive, not the invader. The small amount of time taken to avoid the invader I don't think is enough to have been decisive - look how far from the try-line he is (5m line) when he is tackled (by two players). That extra split-second wouldn't have got him that much closer. Not even Sam Warburton thinks that he would have scored.

""I don't think Liam Williams is going to score there, I think he slightly overran himself anyway, he would have had to check himself," Warburton said."
https://wwos.nine.com.au/rugby/pitc...38-5bfb88dfb74b

Some neutral coverage agrees:
https://www.irishtimes.com/sport/rugby/international/south-africa-snatch-dramatic-late-victory-to-deny-wales-in-cardiff-1.4721796

"Williams had to jump over the pitch invader before he was duly led away, although Wales would not have scored."

So saying that Wales was robbed is not right, I think. Sorry! It was a pretty decent game though, that incident notwithstanding.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

bessantj posted:

Look the better team won but you need to fix your glasses.

Eh, thatís what I remember seeing, a number of pretty crooked throws. If I see replays which show it differently Iím happy to change my mind. While doing a quick search I did see analysis which strongly suggested that the disallowed Bok try was valid. Whatís the view on this?

https://youtu.be/K8gnoWIiwc0

And here at about 2:40

https://youtu.be/uR7a-U1LJkU

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

I do t know if Iíll have time to watch Scotland-Aus. I know the result but I do love watching Australia get beaten and itís so great that Scotland is a force to be reckoned with again

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

edogawa rando posted:

I say there there's no guarantee that scoring that try would have definitely led to a Welsh win because it was at the start of the final quarter of the game. Had it been at, say, the 75th minute, I'd say that Wales were denied a draw and a potential match winner.

However, considering that the game was on a knife edge at that point, it's also just as possible that it could have been a definitive score. Either way, that possibility got snuffed out when that dumb gently caress, and Wales were unfairly denied the opportunity to find that out through no fault of their own.

We will have to agree to disagree - I think the chance of Wales scoring in that position were very low. Williams overran the ball, had to check, and there were 2-3 cover tacklers who comfortably intercepted him before the 5m line. He never got close to the tryline. Of course we won't ever know definitively but to me that wasn't going to be a try.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

I enjoyed SA-Scotland. Scotland played well but just not well enough against a team that was simply better and had greater depth.

I managed to watch Eng-Aus too. As a neutral it wasn't a great game - far too sloppy and error-ridden, particularly by Aus. They could not maintain possession or a decent number of phases without cocking up somehow - loose pass, knock-on, ruck penalty... Lack of composure, lots of snatching at the ball, lack of discipline. Both line-outs were pretty bad. If the England line-out is that bad against SA, and SA maintains its scrum dominance, England will be hosed on Saturday (Something to look forward to!). Fred Steward had a very impressive debut, and Marcus Smith did pretty well too. The try with Steward was very nicely done, with the way he entered the line. At around the 30m mark I thought Johnny May fluffed a potential opportunity - he went on a good run in the Aus 22 but then gave the pass too early without drawing the tackler, which allowed that tackler to switch focus to the player outside him. Nick White's try-saving tackle was spectacular. He had a very good game in trying circumstances.

I thought both games were generally very well refereed.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

That yellow for Taylor against Ireland is bullshit.

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Total Meatlove posted:

The absolute gall of playing it from behind the touchline

Just finished this game in catch-up. Terrifically entertaining with that NZ break followed by the Ntamack breakout being the highlight. For a neutral it was highly enjoyable. I love it when the French play like the French. Thereís nothing quite like it

therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat

Are Scotland-Japan and/or Wales-Aus worth watching?

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therattle
Jul 24, 2007

I'm a family man - I run a family business. This is my son and my partner, H.W.


Soiled Meat


Both?

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