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Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

yesssss.

QAnon is perfect for a south park special.

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Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

empty baggie posted:

I didn't actually think it was supposed to be a series finale, but considering the whole trying to get back to normal plot line along with all of the aforementioned callbacks and cameos by characters that haven't made appearances in ages, watching it just gave me that vibe at times.

There was an absolute fuckton of characters in the crowd rushing for vaccines.

I didn’t pause to study at all, but Jesus and the doctor from the very early seasons who made the zombies were there in front.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Waltzing Along posted:

It's not on Comedy Central? Didn't they sign the contract with CC? I'm very confused.

Paramount is Viacom, as is CC.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Contract is 2 before end of year so probably soon.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Stare-Out posted:

He's going to be regular old Butters and the first thing out of his mouth will be "Hiya fellas! :) "

No chance. It’s going to be a full on covid denier. There was not a single covid denier on the special yet, and IMO that’s exactly what they’re saving it for.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

I’m very much hoping for Bryan boytano.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

SLICK GOKU BABY posted:

Seemed like a pretty good start to the season IMO. Decently funny, nothing crazy. Season openers are not often top 10 episodes...

Also a lot of hope being that there wasn't really any social commentary.

Lol.

It was entirely about wearing masks.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

you know tbh it pissed me off about transplants in nyc who would always complain about poo poo, too. so im trying to do it less. don't wanna be a tropey rear end bitch.

south park is still funny and shitlibs still suck tho. the day biden won the election there were literally droves of the whitest people i've ever seen marching and cheering in the street on sunset like stfu are you kidding me?

Anyone who un-ironically uses shitlib more than once is exactly what everyone is talking about here.

TBH I doubt he fit well in NYC either cause no one here wants to deal with an idiot like that either.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Yeah stans voice was mega hosed up.

Ep was good though.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

don't they do heavy post processing on the voices to make them sound more unique as a finished result? matt and trey are doing most of the voices in various clips you can find from either 6 days to air or other snippets online. matt's daughter does ike, and the finished result never sounds just like how it's originally recorded. i wonder if being sick would even matter?

idk poo poo about sound mixing/editing/whatever sooo..

It’s mostly pitch changes. There is probably a little more, but when you listen to them do it raw it just sounds like a deeper voice.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

I’m from the city and love cortados :frogdowns:

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Lmao.

This is either going to be awful or a full return to
Form.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

This episode was so good. That ending was 100% perfect. But the rest was also good.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

KennyMan666 posted:

South Park Studios are currently running a Music Madness tournament on their Youtube page, so you can swing by there and vote for your favourite songs.

Here's the full bracket:



I'm a bit confused by Now You're A Man being in the bracket, since that's from Orgazmo, not South Park...

It’s for sure for their live concert. Probably trying to gauge what songs are most popular so they can play em.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

The Karen poo poo was excellent. Perfect way to skewer both the overuse of it, with the actual lovely Karen behavior.

Good special overall.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Fingerbang woulda been good too

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

can anyone remember which episode/part it is where cartman and butters are having an exchange, and cartman tells/makes up some bad news to butters and the exchange is something like:

cartman: "[something something bad news/catastrophe]"

butters: "[something something oh no!/oh jeez!]"

cartman: "i know!"

butters: "[repeats earlier line in more desperation]"

cartman: "I KNOW!!"


it's so nonspecific but i can hear the increasing "i know... I KNOW!" in my head so perfectly and can't remember which exchange it's from

This sounds like the awesome-o episode maybe?

Gotta be one where cartman is being nice to butters.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Blue penis bit was great.

Felt like a S&P bate bit. Bet it was just a plain penis and when they just the s&p note they said “what if it’s blue and blocky?” And s&p went “ugh, fine”.

This felt like an old school episode. Perfect touch if absurd and stupid while also being quite funny.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

SeANMcBAY posted:

When was the last time they actually had a celebrity guest voice on?

Season 21, season 20 if you want to count someone people know about.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_South_Park_guest_stars?wprov=sfti1

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

cant cook creole bream posted:

I'm amazed that Bill Hader is like half of that list in the later seasons.

He was in the writers room for a long time so it doesn’t surprise me in the slightest. IMO Surprised he counts as a cameo

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

isn't it like unanimously agreed that mask mandates did little to nothing to help reduce the spread of covid? and you're arguing in favor of them being enforced on the same level of severity as anti discrimination?

jesus christ what is this thread lol

also i'm wilfully happily vaccinated before you try and use that argument against what i'm saying here.

Lol it’s like you’re a loving hot take machine.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/71/wr/mm7106e1.htm



if you're the kind of person who wore a mask everywhere, you were also likely to take other preventative measures that wound up steering you clear of covid.

i wore my mask everywhere i went like a good citizen and followed the rules and looked down on the smoothbrains that wore it under their nose or around their chin. i'm not calling for riots against masks screaming "i can't breathe" or anything.

i just think it's loving absurd to suggest that mask mandates are as serious as telling a company not to fire someone for being gay. the two are not equal at all.

Lmao. Literally the second paragraph of the link you posted, titled “summary” disproves your point.

CDC.gov posted:

What is added by this report?

Consistent use of a face mask or respirator in indoor public settings was associated with lower odds of a positive SARS-CoV-2 test result (adjusted odds ratio = 0.44). Use of respirators with higher filtration capacity was associated with the most protection, compared with no mask use.

Mask mandates failed to stop the spread because Americans that had risky behavior ignored the mask mandates. And the people tasked with enforcing the mask mandates (cops) were some of the worst offenders and refused to enforce them.

Mask mandates failed not because they don’t work, they failed because the population didn’t give a poo poo and there was no enforcement.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

That is some incredible and hilarious twisting of the narrative and whataboutism in order to justify your point. Why are you even bring trans people or people of color into the conversation?

The solution is literally the one that all of the mask mandates put in place, that the police by and large refused to enforce. If a cop sees someone without a mask in a place they’re supposed to have one, they write the person (regardless of their gender or race you loving knob) a ticket.

And if a business allows no masks when they’re supposed to enforce masks, guess what happens? They pay a fine! Regardless of if it’s a woman owned business or not.

And fines that are not paid result in late fees, additional fines, and potentially garnishment. Just like any other ticket for jumping the turnstiles on the subway. No one is calling the cops. No one is going to do poo poo. But if it’s enforced people will listen. Just like speeding tickets or red light camera tickets.

Saying you’re happily vaccinated doesn’t stop you from being an anti-mask idiot when you spout the same dumb bullshit they all do.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

i work with millennials, some (not all) are very like the depiction in this episode. unfortunately it doesn't make for a good or funny episode anyway.

And right on cue, you coming rolling into the tread with the literal worst possible take from the episode.

I’m so sorry that you’re offended that some people value their mental health and not being taken advantage of by multi-million/billionaire employers for poverty wages.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ChesterJT posted:

That's a nice convenient way to dismiss it, but if you think only conservatives can see a lot of younger people use those talking points to gently caress off then you're out of touch. If you're a 20 year old and need a mental health day because your last two 4-hour shifts at McDonalds were too rough for you, you might need to toughen the gently caress up. Those kind of people ruin for the ones who are actually suffering at their job with deadlines and mandatory 20 hours of OT a week. Contrary to most young people's opinion, sometimes you do need to toughen the gently caress up. When you're told that it's ok and make excuses for everyone and never push kids to grow even if it makes them uncomfortable, you get the kind of 20 year olds I have to deal with on a daily basis that may be book smart as hell but have zero common sense or ability to think for themselves. I'm speaking in general, but every year the lowest common denominator gets lower and lower.

Edit: VV I'm happy that you're trying to dunk on me with some other tv thread bullshit you can't be bothered to mention other than to sum it up as "edgelord", but I've work on a campus with a student population of about 70k 18-24 year olds for almost 20 years. This happens to be a topic I have a lot of expertise in but if you think you have more experience with young generations and actually have something relevant to say please let me know.

You sound exactly like the kind of person who wouldn’t take a job at McDonald’s if you got canned and that was all you could get because “it’s beneath me”, meanwhile in reality you’d quit after a 20 hour week of 4 hour dinner rush shifts.

It’s always quite telling who never ever had to work a service industry job, or those who worked some weird one where they barely interacted with customers like a gas station attendant in a wealthy area.

ShoogaSlim posted:

huh?

attention all 40 year olds who work to make ends meet: you can and should be taking mental health days and protesting the system instead of doing your job! that will fix everything!

Yes. And yes. And yes.

This is the loving point. Everyone should be doing this. Just because your dumb rear end was conditioned to accept that bullshit doesn’t mean everyone else should too.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

so what should they be doing instead?

You post like this in nearly every thread, but let’s go down the rabbit hole. Why not.

There is nothing else they can do. They are trapped by a system purposely designed to prevent any sort of rebellion. They are so poor that a strike or attempting to move to a new job or attempting to push back at the company will immediately result in homelessness, hunger, etc. We’re here due to a number of factors, which includes too low minimum wage and a removal of social safety nets, among other things. This is only part of why there’s such a large movement around bare minimum, gently caress employer sentiment.

Instead they should be paid fairly for their labor, and wealth should be properly disbursed among the populous. And before you go there, I am not explicitly advocating here for some weird right wing hate boner fueled nightmare of taking everyone’s money and giving it to poor people.

ShoogaSlim posted:

what the hell is even your stance on any of this?

you assume someone is too entitled/privileged to work at mcdonalds while in the same post suggesting that anyone who doesn't feel like they should work should quit/protest/slack off/strike/etc

so which is it? should people take a job, any job, if they need it - or should people refuse to work because they demand better conditions?

you literally are making zero sense lol

And here we go. You’re doing the exact same thing all the right wing grunts do when they try to argue a case on no merit other than parroting disgusting, demeaning, and dehumanizing GOP talking points.

It’s a couple of things, but here specifically it’s “Claim the other side is arguing in bad faith, while arguing in bad faith,” arguing extreme ends of a point with no room for nuance or middle discussion (I forget the term here), and straight whataboutism.

Just because I think a particular individual would not allow themselves to be subjected to the awfulness that is part-time minimum wage fast food service, does not mean I think that person should be subjected to it. It is, however, a reality that millions of people face in the US. This means it’s a realistic thing to use as an example of something a person would not accept for themselves, but willingly would subject others too, as this person clearly demonstrates by complaining people in that position should stop whining and pull themselves up by their bootstraps.

My implication in making that point is that post had big “gently caress you, I got mine” boomer energy.



To your last line, I did not make that point. I did not suggest people should just take any job to survive, and I do not believe in that as a core concept, but it’s irrelevant to this discussion.

But should people refuse to work in order to demand better conditions? Absolutely, 100% yes, if they are physically able to. I illustrate why this is difficult above. And who should refuse to work does not only apply to minimum wage McDonald’s workers. It also applies to office workers making $150k a year while working 20 hours of OT per week. Or anyone who our awful labor laws fails to protect.

In the US, we find ourselves in a system where nearly every employee is being abused, either by overwork, under pay, or other factors, which little recourse. This labor movement that is brewing is a long time coming, and if things don’t change it’s going to continue to grow.


Ok, I’ve said my piece. I’ll leave the troll alone now.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007


Oh, I absolutely do subscribe to the idea of taking all of the billionaires and giving everyone their money.

But in the context of the argument it wasn’t relevant and didn’t wanna give some extra socialism boogey man ammo.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

I know I post like a jerkoff most of the time, but this is a serious subject and I'd like to have a better understanding of the sentiment from those I may not understand or initially disagree with.

I don’t disagree with most of what you’re saying. It’s an obvious and extremely unfortunate fact that there are many many people in positions where they have no choice but to work an unsatisfactory, low paying job. I’m not happy about this. I’ll risk throwing out an anecdote which may make you roll your eyes or whatever, but my late mother was poor and struggled her whole life. I know lots of people who struggled and continue to struggle. I hate it.

The reason I asked “so what should they be doing instead?” was in response to a statement that some young people wouldn’t be “enthused” about working a restaurant job (why does it matter if it’s a Boomer who owns it or a Gen-Xer or older Millenial or whatever, that’s not the point). What purpose does that statement serve? Are we talking about people who have it so bad they can’t do anything except work, and therefore are likely to try and do whatever they can to keep their jobs, or are we talking about people who are not “enthused” about taking a job at a restaurant and might demand the rise in popularity of “mental health” days or whatever. If someone has it “well” enough to force their boss to let them take a day off just because, then they’re probably not in a position where they have NO choice except to work their rear end off to keep their job and not starve.

Next, you say people who are able to should strike/work less/quiet quit/whatever. So which is it? Can they or can’t they? If they can, and they feel it’s something that will make an impact on either their own personal situation or in solidarity with those less fortunate, then seriously by all means I support taking that action. Do I think, in most cases, it’s worth a drat and will achieve anything meaningful? No. Do the people who are trapped in slave labor benefit from your typical just-out-of-college Zoomer/Millenial/whatever-aged person adopting Mental Health Monday as a sign of solidarity with the lower working class? I seriously doubt it.

Maybe a younger generation just entering the workforce adopting this mentality of doing the bare minimum while having the privilege of not fearing losing their job bc they’ll starve will send waves through the workforce that employers should stop overworking. Or… maybe they’ll just get canned for the next person who will happily take the job and perform the work expected of them and more. Again, do what you think will help, my argument is that I just don’t think “quiet quitting” is the answer to our overall workforce being a pretty poo poo situation for the people it impacts the most severely.

So, again, when I ask what someone is supposed to do to try and improve their situation, the answer is both “nothing” and “anything” which doesn’t make a whole lot of sense to me. If the answer is "those who can't, obviously can't do anything and those who can should at least do something." Then I don't think that "something" is asking for more WFH days. What's that going to solve? Am I thinking too shortsighted on this? Is a labor revolution brewing right under our feet that I'm not aware about?

Lastly, the reason I asked for clarity around the “I bet you wouldn’t even work at McDonald’s” or whatever was because it sounded to me like you were both condemning someone for refusing work while advocating for refusing to work as an act of defiance. You made your point clear that context matters so, sure. I’ll drop that but it still sounds weird to me.

Thanks the actual reasoned, well thought out reply here. I appreciate the seek to understand.

Most of the boomer poo poo is jokes as this is a dead comedy forum and all, but frankly as a general sentiment Boomers overwhelmingly make up the bootstraps, I worked harder for less money crowd. There aren’t many millennials or gen-z’s who think the minimum wage shouldn’t be increased or working conditions shouldn’t be improved. As a consequence of this, I’d expect a millennial business owner to be significantly more likely to offer better pay and working conditions. It’s not a catch all, and I don’t have data to support it, but it feels common sense to me.


There’s kind of two separate conversations here with regards to how these jobs are viewed and what an individual can do in the situation. There are young people who want money but don’t really need it because they are already externally supported, and there are people who desperately need money to support themselves/their families, but don’t have the skills or connections to get well paying jobs.

It looks externally like young people aren’t enthused, or that they don’t want to work. What it actually is is that these young people are in a position to reject these positions. And if they are rejecting the position, even if they take it they’re not gonna give a gently caress because it’s no longer a proper relationship, it’s basically being owned by whatever company you’re stuck with.

I think there are 3 reasons why they are rejected.

1. Everyone is now aware of how deeply lovely these jobs are. Social media has opened everyone’s eyes to the insanity that is retail and food service work. As someone who’s worked service industry jobs for a very long time, In general people are no more crazy then they were 15 years ago. There was always people wilding the gently caress out at mcdonalds, and screaming for managers at customer service, etc, it’s just that now there is video that is spread wide within minutes. You used to not know what you were getting into, but now it’s painfully aware.

Additionally, conversations about pay were not a thing 20-30 years ago, despite legal protections. People were significantly more hesitant to discuss pay. So young people had no context for how low paying these jobs actually were compared to the general workforce until they aged out of them. And their parents sure as poo poo weren’t going to tell them because it was just an expectation back then that teens worked these poo poo jobs.

2. Pay rates at these jobs have not kept up with cost of living increases. During the boomer generation, a manager at McDonalds could easily support themselves and their family, probably even own a car and house. Now, a manager as a single person can barely afford to rent an apartment without roommates over an hour away from their job, let alone support a loving family of 4 on a single salary. Pay HAS kept up (not fully, but way better than fast food/min wage) in office jobs and jobs generally held by older adults/boomers. It comes back to that “gently caress you I got mine” mentality where a large % of people from that generation think they had it hard, so everyone else needs to have it hard, even though they had it significantly easier due to costs of living differences.

3. These jobs not only offer little to no transferable skills, but they intentionally trap you into a vicious cycle of being stuck in that kind of job. This ties into the more recent sentiment of “working harder does not get you ahead in life” because it’s loving true now. You can not take the experience you gain from McDonald’s and apply it to another job in 10 years. And they intentionally keep the number of upward mobility positions small, and fill them mostly with external hires.
Then, they offer absolutely 0 development for additional skills outside of your extremely specific, narrow role. Then, the role is narrowed to be so specific and menial to the company you work for that it doesn’t even really help you be better at the exact same role at a different company, let alone something better.



With regards to the other side, people who are stuck in dead end jobs just to survive. That’s where the idea of bare minimum comes in. Don’t be a shithead to your coworkers, but absolutely gently caress your corporate overlords. The company you work for outright REFUSES to share their wealth, outside of the in group of executives (who’s individual salaries and bonuses in a year are equivalent to thousands of employees’ salaries in a year), investors, and politicians. Not only that, but they refuse to treat you with respect or empathy, enforce respect from the public you deal with, or give any sort of gently caress about your safety or health both in and out of the workplace unless it is the legally mandated bare minimum.

Why in the world would you care about making them more money? Why would you put any effort into increasing those people’s wealth? You don’t make more money when they do. You don’t even get recognized as doing well unless you have infinite growth in your performance, something that is literally impossible when it comes to physical tasks. Your only goal in that situation is to take care of the people around you stuck in the same position as you, and to not get fired. And if you’re trying to go above and beyond that, you’re wasting your time and energy. You’ll never see a single positive, monetary, or tangible benefit from that effort.


I’ve typed too much already, but with regards to the question of what should people do.

I think people should not continue to give effort to companies who refuse to share. I think if people are able, they shouldn’t work for these companies under these hosed up conditions.

Also, there is 100% a labor movement brewing. For the first time in decades unions are coming to the forefront of the conversation. And for the first time in the history of modern retail, unions are being aggressively pursued. And looking at companies like Starbucks and Apple’s response to them should tell you all you need to know about how scared these companies are of them.

There’s also the huge push up in minimum wages for many companies (Target in NY base pay is $24 an hour, despite the minimum wage being $15).

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

TheFattestPat posted:

Managers/owners want to have the advantage, workers want to have the advantage. This isn't exactly a new issue.

I don’t know if I’d call being treated with respect, a livable wage, and the ability to take care of your health without fear of homelessness an advantage?

There is not a single person that I have seen advocate for workers having an advantage over employers. For decades now, employers have wielded 95% of the power in all situations, with nearly 0 recourse or punishment.

There is no better example of this than wage theft vs employee theft. If an employer steals wages from an employee, they are generally just required to pay it back, and at absolute worst they take a paltry fine.

If an employee steals from an employer there are typically life altering consequences, often which include jail time as employers will typically let an employee steal until they reach grand larceny levels.

https://www.epi.org/publication/wage-theft-bigger-problem-forms-theft-workers/

For reference, this chart includes ALL theft in the US. I’d bet theft by employees is probably less than 1/1000th of the robberies rate reported here.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

NikkolasKing posted:

This is a bit of a weird question but is it supposed to be the case that Stan is the "main" character of the four? Or that he's the mot normal and reasonable?

I dunno, I guess I just always felt more affinity for Kyle. I'm not even sure why. At best I figured the two of them were the "only sane ones" in the town, at least for the most part. They definitely have their moments of stupidity or evil, at least early on.

Maybe I just like Kyle the most for all the times he screams and then immediately beats the poo poo out of Cartman. It's the only logical response to Eric Cartman, really.

I don’t believe any of them are main characters o above the other (except Kenny). I think it feels this way because Stan’s been the plot driver for an enormous amount of new episodes. I’d say it’s like 70% because of the huge focus on Randy, and 30% because he’s the only one without a wacky character archetype.

Cartman is just evil, racist, and fat, Kyle is just Jewish and guilty/conflicted (which is also expressed as Jewishness in the show), but Stan waffles a lot. Stan gets a lot of deep, specific plot points. I assume it’s because he doesn’t have a shoehorned gimmick that they need to adhere to, so he gets all of the more human stories.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

NikkolasKing posted:

Parker and Stone really hitched their wagon to the dead horse of being pro-smoking, huh. I had just dismissed the "filthy smoker" abuse hurled at the guy in the Museum of Tolerance bit as a one-off joke, but with the line about "second hand smoke lies" in My Future Self, and now this whole episode, it's really an ax they wanted to grind. Really, really read the culture wrong here. Also I grew up around smokers, smoking is fine by me, and gently caress anybody who was like "go ahead and kill yourself, tar-breath!!" - if such a strawman ever existed - but celebrating Big Tobacco? Nah, gently caress that.


Also going back to the favorites of the main four, Kenny's revival was entirely pointless. He's done absolutely nothing this entire season. I'm tempted to think they brought him back just so they wouldn't have to write lines like if Butters or Tweek were still the fourth boy.

Eh, Kenny has such a minor role in the later seasons. I don’t even think he has a line or is acknowledged in like 60% of the episodes in last 5 seasons. But when they do utilize him, it’s loving fantastic. The pandemic special was a standout, as was the shopping district stuff.

I just think they thought it was funny to really kill him after pretending to kill him every single episode for years. Then they thought it was even funnier to act like it was permanent when they absolutely knew it was not.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

SweetMercifulCrap! posted:

They restored a lot of jobs and likely created more than it required before. They also said they're definitely going to be operating it at a loss. Why try to spin this as a selfish move?

Agreed. There’s significant money being poured into that community on restoration materials and labor alone.

Then there’s local jobs to run the place. Local tax revenue. And likely significant additional tourist revenue.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

^ this looks like it was ran through an AI image bot with the prompt "diversify the 7 dwarves for 2023 audiences" lol

in true south park fashion, it would make more sense for them to have some people getting upset about the inclusivity but then other people who fight against them over why inclusivity is important and amplifies the voices of underrepresented individuals, but then someone else points out the irony that it's coming from a white person, but then someone else pointing out that the critique is coming from another white person. then everyone looks at tolkien and he just shrugs and cut to credits.

hopefully it is nuanced bc that's when south park is at its best. only time will tell!

It is extremely likely this is where they are going to go.

Poke a little fun at the idea of using diversity as a cash grab, and smack the hand harder on bigots who scream “she wasn’t black in the original”. Then use Tolkien as the bookend, especially as his character is basically based on the idea of media conglomerates shoehorning in diversity for quick cash and back pats.

They’ve followed this exact formula 100s of times.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

ShoogaSlim posted:

what you're saying is that critique of disney should not exist otherwise it will enable/embolden/create nazis. which is absurd. is it only south park that isn't allowed to critique? is new york magazine allowed to? or some other higher brow form of discourse? or is all critique disallowed bc of the imagined implications?

The goon yelling about someone using strawman fallacy also constantly using strawman fallacy will never not be funny.

My dude, no one is saying people should not be allowed to critique Disney. People are saying you shouldn’t be critiquing Disney for including diversity because you’re critiquing diversity initiatives, which have been repeatedly proven important and impactful.

Feel free to critique Disney for doing it for all of the wrong reasons, because by and large they are doing it for the wrong reasons. Actions /= intent in every scenario, and it’s absolutely possible for actions to be inherently right while also being extremely loving scummy.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

TheFattestPat posted:

You better do as you're told and embrace diverse reboots, otherwise you're just a common nazi.

I mean, yeah?

Getting angry at the race of the actor portraying a character is still getting mad at their race. Ariel having luminescent white skin is somehow not integral to the story of the little mermaid, despite how badly the right wing outrage machine wants it to be. She could be loving green and it wouldn’t matter.

Notice how no one ever complained for decades when white people portrayed non-white characters until the racism drat started to break down and become unsustainable.

There was a point in cinema where Asian people were almost exclusively played by white people with extremely racist accents and facial expressions.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

TheFattestPat posted:

Aged badly? That episode hits politics on the nose. Politicians are lying scumbags and things are going to suck no matter who wins. Everyone insists their guy is better and they only want you to participate if you support them. The only thing that was missing was Cartman being an actual lobbyist by getting paid to manipulate the school staff/government.

I’m so sick of people running with this.

Could all of our politicians be better? Absolutely.

Are most or all of them lovely? Totally.

Are they all equally bad? Absolutely not.

Are we really going to run with the idea that the politicians supporting abortion restrictions and restriction of birth control, the genocide of gay and trans people, extreme tax cuts for the wealthy paid for by safety net cuts, etc etc are just as bad as the people who want legal weed, nationalized healthcare, access to abortion, and equal right for everyone regardless of sexual orientation, gender identity, or race? Come the gently caress on now.

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Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007

Shitenshi posted:

I don't subscribe to the whole both parties are the same thing. The Republicans would never codify gay marriage into law. That being said, at the end of the day, they are far too similar. The stances on war for example have always been universally the same. I remember under Trump he got bipartisan support for not only his stupid Space Force but also for the Air Force to use Native heritage ground as testing for airstrikes. And for all the ways Democrats love talking about abortion rights and legalizing drugs nationwide, they have yet to make it real the same way that after those Parkland school shootings, Republicans jumped up to make shooter drills a thing in schools, and actually get talked about loving giving teachers guns to take out potential threats. It would be so easy for the Democratic party to live up to their promises and it would give them so much good will too, but they don't ever do it.

Like back when Roe v Wade was nulled out of existence, there were a number of measures Biden could have easily fell back on. But he didn't do it. And far, FAR too many Democrats, even people like AOC and Bernie Sanders outright support arming Israel right now. Douche and Turd still rings true for me, but it's less about that episode and more about that old Simpsons gif about how the Republicans are openly evil and Democrats are too spineless to get anything done.

I feel like you nailed to a T the exact response someone who likes to act informed, but isn’t would make.

It has been proven that armed teachers are significantly more dangerous that ones that aren’t.

It has been proven, statistically and otherwise, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over again that the amount of guns are the problem. So no republicans do not points for talking about arming teachers.

And democrats haven’t had universal power since Obama, and that was only for 2 years IIRC. Democrats have been 100% unable on a federal level to enact any meaningful legislation because they have NOT been in control in all 3 chambers and there are no longer any reasonable republicans. This isn’t even considering the face that there are 2 pseudo-republicans (Sinemma & Manchin) who have been even further blocking meaningful legislation. Republicans did have full control under trump for 2 years and also managed to do jack poo poo with it.


And sure, let’s talk about abortion access. Biden did as absolutely much as he could. He ensured easy, over the counter access to plan-b. He made it so states it was difficult for states to block mailed abortion medication. He ensured the military offered enhanced abortion access. There’s more I’m missing. There was also always the risk that Biden went hard enough to trigger a federal lawsuit, which would allow a crazy court to put a hold on some of things he was able to accomplish.

Would you like to know how to get rid of democrats that are too focused on war and lovely neo-lib policies?

It’s elect enough democrats so the issues they win on (abortion, weed, social safety nets, healthcare, whatever) are codified into law. Once those are codified into law, the moderates no longer can stand on those issues and can be primaried with more liberal, effective democrats. It’s so painfully obvious yet we keep running in this cycle of “many democrats also support lovely policies so I might as well let all my rights get taken away :colbert:

Allowing republicans to be elected via apathy and both sides-isms just means you get to keep fighting for the same basic rights you believe in over and over and allowing moderates to win toeing that line while pushing their own lovely agendas.

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