Noita: It was working well, until

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Video Games > Noita: It was working well, until

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

AceClown posted:

Interesting, it's also considering the energy shield a spell on the three cast too!

but you can see it's completely ignoring the last three chainsaws.

Edit: this really isn't making any logical sense

I think it might actually be that the game casts one block of spells per frame so there's a one frame delay between them e.g. energy shield casts, next frame the triple casts + the energy shield again by wrapping. It lines up with your half-ish damage DPS stat as well.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 11:06

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 01:13

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

The Gripper posted:

I think it might actually be that the game casts one block of spells per frame so there's a one frame delay between them e.g. energy shield casts, next frame the triple casts + the energy shield again by wrapping. It lines up with your half-ish damage DPS stat as well.

I think I need to understand spell wrapping a bit more, take this for example:

This is a basic wrap, I get this, the chainsaw fires, then the double cast fires the bolt and wraps round to the next spell which is the chainsaw again. Because it's already started casting the wand the double is next and it repeats with 0 cast delay until the wand is out of mana. this is logical and makes sense.

But if you swap over the sparkbolt and chainsaw it does not, which makes zero sense.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 11:24

HookedOnChthonics: Dec 5, 2015; Profoundly dull

The Gripper posted:

(hold the empty potion and go for a swim)

also while im asking beginner questions, what does satiation do, other than being a nerf on vampirism or a slow way to burrow through snow? do love the mental image of my wiz just cramming every scrap of cave lichen in their craw as they go tho :kimchi:

# ? Feb 16, 2021 11:30

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

AceClown posted:

I think I need to understand spell wrapping a bit more, take this for example:

This is a basic wrap, I get this, the chainsaw fires, then the double cast fires the bolt and wraps round to the next spell which is the chainsaw again. Because it's already started casting the wand the double is next and it repeats with 0 cast delay until the wand is out of mana. this is logical and makes sense.

But if you swap over the sparkbolt and chainsaw it does not, which makes zero sense.

The spark bolt adds cast delay, and in the second example would be after the chainsaw so your wand's cast delay would effectively be 0.05.

HookedOnChthonics posted:

also while im asking beginner questions, what does satiation do, other than being a nerf on vampirism or a slow way to burrow through snow? do love the mental image of my wiz just cramming every scrap of cave lichen in their craw as they go tho

It's just there to stop you eating too much, as some things you eat have effects that last longer the more you eat. Cave lichen is good, but some other things...

The Gripper fucked around with this message at 11:39 on Feb 16, 2021

# ? Feb 16, 2021 11:33

Supradog: Sep 1, 2004; A POOOST!?!??! YEEAAAAHHHH

What was the url for that wand theory craft site where you could design your own wands or did I only imagine it existing?

# ? Feb 16, 2021 12:10

Helter Skelter: Feb 10, 2004; BEARD OF HAVOC

Supradog posted:

What was the url for that wand theory craft site where you could design your own wands or did I only imagine it existing?

Here you go.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 13:49

jsoh: Mar 24, 2007; O Muhammad, I seek your intercession with my Lord for the return of my eyesight

HookedOnChthonics posted:

also while im asking beginner questions, what does satiation do, other than being a nerf on vampirism or a slow way to burrow through snow? do love the mental image of my wiz just cramming every scrap of cave lichen in their craw as they go tho

in prerelease versions it didn't exist and you could eat anything, including I think the entire lava sea

# ? Feb 16, 2021 14:40

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

HookedOnChthonics posted:

i'm still trying to get my head around how to tell the good wands from the bad ones; it feels a bit like novice Isaac where I really have no idea what tips a run from futile to successful, it just... happens (or more often than not doesnt)

Cast time and recharge time should be low. Mana capacity and mana recovery time should ideally be high (especially, if mana capacity is low then some spells just straight-up can't be cast). You want enough spell capacity to fit your spells into the wand. And most of the time you really want the wand to be unshuffled.

You may want to read this guide. There's probably other guides too for that matter; the one I linked is just easy to find.

quote:

real talk though what is the use case for potions as a thing, i mostly have not even touched them (the one time i found a water potion i died to projectiles before i even got set on fire again lmao)

Water is invaluable for removing stains and clearing toxic sludge pools. Other potions mostly have a few niche gimmicks. Off the top of my head:

Teleportatium can be used to teleport out of the Holy Mountain without collapsing the exit. There's also a secret use: in the Hiisi Base, find the spell store along either the east or west wall, and dig up to find an hourglass. Fill it with teleportatium and you get taken to a secret area with some high-level spells.
Pheremone renders hostile units friendly. This is mostly used to make Hiisi Healers friendly so they heal you.
Acid and lava can dig through steel (lava creates more lava in the process of doing so)
Drinking worm blood gives you the ability to see through walls. Drinking acceleratium/levitatium increases your horizontal/vertical speed.
Ambrosia renders you totally invincible if you stand in a puddle of it. The stain wears off extremely quickly though, so it's mostly used for digging through a rare material called Toxic Rock.

You can also do alchemy by mixing liquids together, but the recipes are randomized, so the odds of stumbling into a useful one in any given run are pretty rare.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 16:01

resistentialism: Aug 13, 2007

If you can get to zero delay without the pre-fire frame where you just cast a chainsaw by itself you'll be sending projectiles faster. So wrapping is very good, but not wrapping because you don't even need to is even better.

And the shield spell is a little weird because it says it's a passive but it functions more like a utility. It's a dummy spell that does something like "Spend 10 mana and then cast the next spell in the list," but it can mess with modifiers by not passing them on, or eat up a slot in multicasts maybe?

# ? Feb 16, 2021 16:25

BMan: Oct 31, 2015; KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK

resistentialism posted:

And the shield spell is a little weird because it says it's a passive but it functions more like a utility. It's a dummy spell that does something like "Spend 10 mana and then cast the next spell in the list," but it can mess with modifiers by not passing them on, or eat up a slot in multicasts maybe?

It doesn't cast the next spell, it just acts like a 10 mana do-nothing spell.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 16:54

Supradog: Sep 1, 2004; A POOOST!?!??! YEEAAAAHHHH

Edit wands anywhere leads witch into dark path of hording spells

Wand 2 usually has energy sphere + a laser to dig around, its not usually set up with black hole.

Any fun combos I can try out? I only have explosion immunity though.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 19:13

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

TooMuchAbstraction posted:

[*]Acid and lava can dig through steel (lava creates more lava in the process of doing so)

Concentrated mana also does this, a lot more safely! (or was that a bug that's been fixed?)

# ? Feb 16, 2021 20:23

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

Eric the Mauve posted:

Concentrated mana also does this, a lot more safely! (or was that a bug that's been fixed?)

it still does and is definitely the easiest way to melt huge amounts of steel, since it turns any water into more concentrated mana and therefore there's an effectively unlimited supply

though my Hiisi Base run where I had a water trail wand + concentrated mana and just erased every steel thing in the level was really rough on my computer's framerate lol

# ? Feb 16, 2021 21:04

animatorZed: Jan 2, 2008; falling down

I got concentrated mana into the Lake once. That was definitely an amusing sight.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 21:16

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

animatorZed posted:

I got concentrated mana into the Lake once. That was definitely an amusing sight.

Pretty sure that would crash my computer.

# ? Feb 16, 2021 21:19

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Eric the Mauve posted:

Concentrated mana also does this, a lot more safely! (or was that a bug that's been fixed?)

you're right, this is definitely the preferable option when you have access to it. I think it's still valuable to know about acid and lava though, since the main case where I want to be able to dig through steel is in the Fungal Caves, which is early enough that I probably don't have all of my favorite flasks available.

(I generally go water, teleportatium, Concentrated Mana, and a Broken Wand)

# ? Feb 16, 2021 21:45

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

One thing a ton of people don't realise as well is that you can right click potions to drink them instead of just pouring it all over yourself so it doesn't get washed off by other liquids, great for things like levitatium.

# ? Feb 17, 2021 07:30

silentsnack: Mar 19, 2009; Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.

AceClown posted:

I need some help understanding this wand

So this gives 1.8k damage on average, what I don't understand is how this is doing better than....

which gets 700dps and is the traditional way that I was taught to build trigger payload wands?

(the wand is the same stats as BMans so it's not that) I'm guessing it's something to do with spell wrapping here but I can't get my head round it because on the first example you can see at least one of the drill spells is firing at the wand and not being delivered to the target via the trigger so I'm super confused.

First wand: The sparkbolt-double-trigger casts 2 chainsaws on impact (both of which get the Heavy Shot damage modifier). The triple-cast spell makes each click cast sparkbolt[with payload] and chainsaw in the same frame, which usually leads to 0 cast delay, so it can cast every frame.

Second wand: The double-trigger-[triple spell] chainswawaw instead casts 3 (heavy) chainsaws on impact but has no cast delay modification other than the sparkbolt, so it has a longer delay between projectiles unless the wand's inherent cast delay offset is already negative (which is rare but can also be obtained by finding a good wand and then taking the Faster Wands perk.)

# ? Feb 17, 2021 09:01

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

silentsnack posted:

First wand: The sparkbolt-double-trigger casts 2 chainsaws on impact (both of which get the Heavy Shot damage modifier). The triple-cast spell makes each click cast sparkbolt[with payload] and chainsaw in the same frame, which usually leads to 0 cast delay, so it can cast every frame.

Second wand: The double-trigger-[triple spell] chainswawaw instead casts 3 (heavy) chainsaws on impact but has no cast delay modification other than the sparkbolt, so it has a longer delay between projectiles unless the wand's inherent cast delay offset is already negative (which is rare but can also be obtained by finding a good wand and then taking the Faster Wands perk.)

I thought that at first as well, but the cast delay on that wand is 0.12s and it casts far faster than that, somewhere between 0.05s and 0s.

There's something with the wrapping that isn't obvious to me, but on the first wand the last chainsaw isn't part of the triple or the trigger so it's resetting cast delay to 0 after the trigger adds 0.07 and letting the triple immediately cast again, on the second I can't find where the reduction is.

If you put the energy shield at the end you get the 0.19 cast delay again, when I would have thought it'd be identical to the original wand.

Reading the wiki for it it seems like if it wraps it ignores the cast delay and goes straight to recharge instead, but if that were the case it'd shoot every frame without stuttering. That's what had me leaning towards it being because the second wand has two independent spell blocks and was potentially alternating them each frame or casting energy shield twice for each trigger, e.g. it casts energy shield on the first frame, then the trigger that wraps back to the energy shield on the next frame, and then it starts again with the energy shield on frame 3. The damage numbers line up but it doesn't feel right.

The Gripper fucked around with this message at 10:18 on Feb 17, 2021

# ? Feb 17, 2021 10:07

Ghost of Babyhead: Jun 28, 2008; Grimey Drawer

animatorZed posted:

I got concentrated mana into the Lake once. That was definitely an amusing sight.

I always pour some mana into the fishpond in the Holy Mountain for good luck.

# ? Feb 17, 2021 10:28

silentsnack: Mar 19, 2009; Donald John Trump (born June 14, 1946) is the 45th and current President of the United States. Before entering politics, he was a businessman and television personality.

The Gripper posted:

I thought that at first as well, but the cast delay on that wand is 0.12s and it casts far faster than that, somewhere between 0.05s and 0s.

There's something with the wrapping that isn't obvious to me, but on the first wand the last chainsaw isn't part of the triple or the trigger so it's resetting cast delay to 0 after the trigger adds 0.07 and letting the triple immediately cast again, on the second I can't find where the reduction is.

If you put the energy shield at the end you get the 0.19 cast delay again, when I would have thought it'd be identical to the original wand.

Reading the wiki for it it seems like if it wraps it ignores the cast delay and goes straight to recharge instead, but if that were the case it'd shoot every frame without stuttering.

In addition to the -0.17s recharge reduction, Chainsaw has a cast delay reduction (around -0.5s) that isn't listed in the spell description, which is why doublecast[chainsaw+projectile w/trigger] is the simplest way to get most wands to 0 delay... but even if total delay is negative it's still functionally limited to ~30fps because physics simulation seems to happen in ~0.0333s increments, which is what I meant by "frame" so yeah it seems we're not actually disagreeing?

Neither wand is "wrapping" in the sense described in the wiki (at least if I'm reading correctly) because all of the spells are still being cast when the multicast reaches the end... but one of the limitations of the magic system is that any given instance of a spellcard can't cast itself, or otherwise be cast twice in the same frame (except maybe via greek spells or other spells that 'duplicate' another spell in your wand). If you want it to wrap it would be like putting doublecast[chainsaw X2] first, then multicast[sparkbolt/etc...] with at least one projectile of the multicast unfilled, so that the first frame is chainsawing, then the multicast casts your projectile spell and the parser hits the end of the list and starts at the begininning with 2x chainsaws, which massively reduces cast delay, and having 4 casts of chainsaw gives -0.68s recharge time. This lets you get 0 delay / 0 recharge much more easily if you only have a limited number of modifiers/chainsaws/drills.

# ? Feb 17, 2021 10:40

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

silentsnack posted:

In addition to the -0.17s recharge reduction, Chainsaw has a cast delay reduction (around -0.5s) that isn't listed in the spell description, which is why doublecast[chainsaw+projectile w/trigger] is the simplest way to get most wands to 0 delay... but even if total delay is negative it's still functionally limited to ~30fps because physics simulation seems to happen in ~0.0333s increments, which is what I meant by "frame" so yeah it seems we're not actually disagreeing?

Neither wand is "wrapping" in the sense described in the wiki (at least if I'm reading correctly) because all of the spells are still being cast when the multicast reaches the end... but one of the limitations of the magic system is that any given instance of a spellcard can't cast itself, or otherwise be cast twice in the same frame (except maybe via greek spells or other spells that 'duplicate' another spell in your wand). If you want it to wrap it would be like putting doublecast[chainsaw X2] first, then multicast[sparkbolt/etc...] with at least one projectile of the multicast unfilled, so that the first frame is chainsawing, then the multicast casts your projectile spell and the parser hits the end of the list and starts at the begininning with 2x chainsaws, which massively reduces cast delay, and having 4 casts of chainsaw gives -0.68s recharge time. This lets you get 0 delay / 0 recharge much more easily if you only have a limited number of modifiers/chainsaws/drills.

That cast delay reduction/reset on the chainsaw is what's making it so confusing I think - if it were the chainsaws causing it then putting the energy shield at the end of the wand *should* be the same as the example wand with the energy shield at the front reached via the double trigger not having a 2nd spell to cast without wrapping, but instead it shoots extremely slowly in that configuration.

I don't think we're disagreeing either, I didn't notice you mentioned frames and was referencing an earlier post I made.

another edit: I think spell lab is messed up on the beta, switching back to the main branch and building the same wand as in #2 it's slow as hell which isn't what I was seeing before, so this can probably all be ignored!

The Gripper fucked around with this message at 11:02 on Feb 17, 2021

# ? Feb 17, 2021 10:52

ZypherIM: Nov 8, 2010; "I want to see what she's in love with."

silentsnack posted:

In addition to the -0.17s recharge reduction, Chainsaw has a cast delay reduction (around -0.5s) that isn't listed in the spell description, which is why doublecast[chainsaw+projectile w/trigger] is the simplest way to get most wands to 0 delay... but even if total delay is negative it's still functionally limited to ~30fps because physics simulation seems to happen in ~0.0333s increments, which is what I meant by "frame" so yeah it seems we're not actually disagreeing?

Neither wand is "wrapping" in the sense described in the wiki (at least if I'm reading correctly) because all of the spells are still being cast when the multicast reaches the end... but one of the limitations of the magic system is that any given instance of a spellcard can't cast itself, or otherwise be cast twice in the same frame (except maybe via greek spells or other spells that 'duplicate' another spell in your wand). If you want it to wrap it would be like putting doublecast[chainsaw X2] first, then multicast[sparkbolt/etc...] with at least one projectile of the multicast unfilled, so that the first frame is chainsawing, then the multicast casts your projectile spell and the parser hits the end of the list and starts at the begininning with 2x chainsaws, which massively reduces cast delay, and having 4 casts of chainsaw gives -0.68s recharge time. This lets you get 0 delay / 0 recharge much more easily if you only have a limited number of modifiers/chainsaws/drills.

The number of unmentioned effects like that is maybe my only big complaint about the game. The stuff that isn't listed feels pretty arbitrary, and makes trying to figure out building wands much, much harder than it should be. You're basically forced to use outside information sources, or just guess a whole bunch but probably not figure out the reason why you can't make an infinite wand this run is because you took a perk with a hidden cast delay built in.

# ? Feb 17, 2021 14:58

BMan: Oct 31, 2015; KNIIIIIIFE
EEEEEYYYYE
ATTAAAACK

POWER! UNLIMITED POWER!!!

https://i.imgur.com/o0MPoxU.mp4

# ? Feb 18, 2021 01:36

Eric the Mauve: May 8, 2012; Making you happy for a buck since 199X

I was able to put together a wand in the second holy mountain that had Increase Mana as an always cast, and simply

Lightsaber -> reduce recharge -> doublespell -> concentrated light

And it's an infinite-mana, every-frame-for-as-long-as-I-hold-the-button-down murder machine that also digs through anything. Might not stand up to midgame enemies... unless I can gather up some damage plus/crit plus for the 8 remaining unused slots on this wand :getin:

# ? Feb 18, 2021 01:44

Twibbit: Mar 7, 2013; Is your refrigerator running?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6vdqNnCtoo
Got my first victory today! Also was my first time fighting the final boss as well! I knew I was going to be turned into gold, but I never fairly got past the Hisi base before and did not want to push my luck with the other endings.

The wand was a shuffle wand that ever so often shoots four at once which is why the boss suddenly got deleted during the last half of his health. Explosive Immunity, projectile ward, and rear projectile winner.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 03:31

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

Twibbit posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6vdqNnCtoo
Got my first victory today! Also was my first time fighting the final boss as well! I knew I was going to be turned into gold, but I never fairly got past the Hisi base before and did not want to push my luck with the other endings.

The wand was a shuffle wand that ever so often shoots four at once which is why the boss suddenly got deleted during the last half of his health. Explosive Immunity, projectile ward, and rear projectile winner.

Was yeeting the water flask into the ground intentional or a panic move? :madmax:

# ? Feb 18, 2021 11:15

Twibbit: Mar 7, 2013; Is your refrigerator running?

Choice, was getting set on fire so much that I figured just having a large puddle I could run into repeatedly made sense

# ? Feb 18, 2021 11:51

The Gripper: Sep 14, 2004; i am winner

Twibbit posted:

Choice, was getting set on fire so much that I figured just having a large puddle I could run into repeatedly made sense

Haha nice! Good job on the victory, I worry that after a few dozen kills with overpowered wands I'd do very very poorly with a more normal one.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 12:07

Torquemadras: Jun 3, 2013

Just got this

I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. I'm trying to get wands with as low recharge/cast delays as possible, then turn them into machine guns with acceptable mana regen. Stack double casts / crit modifiers etc. on it if possible. If it gets good enough during the ice world, I have a nice chance of making it through the Hisii base.

Only the jungle afterwards loving murders me every time. Holy poo poo. How do I get good at this, my runs are basically doomed if I don't get a machine gun before or during the ice world

Also, is it worth it exploring world 1 and 2 much, because ice world wands are so much superior to anything else it's ridiculous

# ? Feb 18, 2021 15:05

Fishbus: Aug 30, 2006; "Stuck in an RPG Pro-Tour"

You're right, I find the world 1 wands are always the same, 2 isn't much better and then they get good at world 3.

I've found that with each world, going slower each time helps, the hiisii base I clear out rooms every few minutes, so the jungle i'm going even slower. I try and let some of the natural order of things happen like spiders and whatnot fight it out before moving in.

A second thing is just after you spend a bit of time there you know what to expect of the enemies and the third or forth time you've played that section you'll grok it.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 15:15

eke out: Feb 24, 2013

Torquemadras posted:

Also, is it worth it exploring world 1 and 2 much, because ice world wands are so much superior to anything else it's ridiculous

the fungal caverns that always spawn on the far left of the 2nd biome have higher level wands than can spawn anywhere else early on, it's almost always worth beelining over there to look for wands and hearts

warning: fungal caverns are hilariously dangerous

# ? Feb 18, 2021 15:32

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

The Jungle has some pretty nasty combinations. In particular, it has aggressive melee enemies (bees) combined with large vertical gaps that can cause you to aggro a big chunk of the level if you get knocked into them, and it has enemies with gobs of health that like to throw stage hazards at you (the various Hiisi exterminators or whatever they are). Oh, and odds are good that you'll encounter plenty of poison and fire.

Bees don't have too much health, so with some good aim you can usually take them down before they can cause trouble. The melee immunity perk of course renders them impotent. Make sure you don't try to fight them while flying over gaps though.

For the big guys, you really want big burst damage. Stuff like large/giant firebolts can work, but the ideal way to do this is an unshuffled wand like:

[spark bolt with trigger]
[projectile modifiers that increase damage, like damage+, heavy shot, freezing shot, etc.]
[multicast]
[a bunch of cheap projectiles, ideally triple bolts and chainsaws]

The projectile modifiers apply to every projectile created by the multicast, and all of the projectiles spawn in the enemy's face, so they're pretty much guaranteed to hit for gobs of damage.

Machinegun wands are nice, but they don't scale as well into the late game. It's certainly possible with the right spells, but IMO it takes more understanding of the wand system to really get going as compared to a wand like the above wand.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 16:11

Sax Solo: Feb 18, 2011

Twibbit posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i6vdqNnCtoo
Got my first victory today! Also was my first time fighting the final boss as well!

Congrats! I like the reflexive picking up of gold in mid-fight.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 16:50

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

Torquemadras posted:

Just got this

I have absolutely no clue what I'm doing. I'm trying to get wands with as low recharge/cast delays as possible, then turn them into machine guns with acceptable mana regen. Stack double casts / crit modifiers etc. on it if possible. If it gets good enough during the ice world, I have a nice chance of making it through the Hisii base.

Only the jungle afterwards loving murders me every time. Holy poo poo. How do I get good at this, my runs are basically doomed if I don't get a machine gun before or during the ice world

Also, is it worth it exploring world 1 and 2 much, because ice world wands are so much superior to anything else it's ridiculous

Just to expand a little on what TooMuchAbstraction said, it's like you're unintentionally not treating Noita like a roguelike.

imagine if you were playing Slay the Spire and said "i'm basically doomed if I don't get the poison cards before act 2" well some runs you will get them but in a hell of a lot you won't.

you've got to use all the tools my dude and figure out what you can make with the ingredients you're given, trying to force a build never works in any roguelike.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 18:07

Clark Nova: Jul 18, 2004

You can find wands on the second level with 100/s regen instead of the ~50/s regen most first level wands have. I actually don't think there's a lot of difference between the wands and spells in the coal mines and the ones in the fungal caverns, except the caverns have more, closer together. If I'm doing really well or really poorly, I beeline for the fungal caverns, otherwise I explore the mines first, especially if I have a good way to dig

# ? Feb 18, 2021 19:25

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

Clark Nova posted:

You can find wands on the second level with 100/s regen instead of the ~50/s regen most first level wands have. I actually don't think there's a lot of difference between the wands and spells in the coal mines and the ones in the fungal caverns, except the caverns have more, closer together. If I'm doing really well or really poorly, I beeline for the fungal caverns, otherwise I explore the mines first, especially if I have a good way to dig

fungal caverns wands are all non-shuffle

# ? Feb 18, 2021 19:28

Shibawanko: Feb 13, 2013

alright that was my best run so far, i made it all the way down to the boss, a bit into the lava ocean and into the robotic egg and back out to the surface. i had a really good killwand that could just oneshot the dragon boss and big worms and turned everything into a fireball thrower, plus i had endless spells and explosion immunity

the reason i died was that i started picking up the essences, i got the fire one first which started an uncontrolled descent into the lake, id picked up the lukki mutation perk for fun so i couldnt fly back out easily, i then picked up the essence of spirits which was an even worse idea, i eventually died to fire. dont pick up essences i guess

# ? Feb 18, 2021 19:31

AceClown: Sep 11, 2005

Shibawanko posted:

id picked up the lukki mutation perk for fun

found the problem :v:

# ? Feb 18, 2021 19:37

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# ? Apr 26, 2024 01:13

TooMuchAbstraction: Oct 14, 2012; I spent four years making
Waves of Steel
Hell yes I'm going to turn my avatar into an ad for it.; Fun Shoe

Shibawanko posted:

dont pick up essences i guess

They're all really disruptive, in my experience. Some of them are worse than others but none of them are good if you want to keep playing a more-or-less regular game. Once you grab an essence you're instead playing the "try to finish the essences quest without accidentally killing myself" game.

# ? Feb 18, 2021 20:53

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