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RBA Starblade posted:The door's going to be a fakeout and lead to the other side of the room it contains Half Life 3
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Jan 27, 2020 22:57
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Lutha Mahtin posted:All of the major world religions have well-established doctrines about the afterlife not being the same as life on earth. Christians have the idea that we are given "heavenly bodies" which are not the same as our earthly bodies. Some schools of Buddhism have the idea that in nirvana, our consciousness actually ceases to be our own and melds/blends with everything else there. i've always thought of it that heaven would eventually turn into hell for anyone who still had a human, time-limited mindset, and if you became an angel or whatever who was totally jizzing about singing god's praises forever then that's not you anymore so it's not even you in heaven at all https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZpZuIWu1tw
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Jan 28, 2020 21:23
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PostNouveau posted:The suicide door aspect is a black mark on what was otherwise a very good episode about death. it's not really suicide so much as accepting that as a sentient being you are not intended to exist forever in stasis we just don't have a better word for a being choosing to turn itself off permanently in a happy way
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Jan 31, 2020 16:33
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PostNouveau posted:It's 100% suicide. Them finding a way to write it so that suicide is the "right choice" is irresponsible. it's not suicide really. we think of suicide as an untimely, tragic death based in some aspect of despair but that isn't a choice that means anything in an endless, happy existence where you have all the time you need to come to grips with the inevitability of a conclusion to your existence as mentioned above, we have another word - euthanasia - for self-ending when that can be seen as a reasonable choice. we'd need another word entirely to capture one's exit from heaven after the generous offer of taking all the time you need to accept the inevitable, that all things have a conclusion at some point PostNouveau posted:You can't pivot away from the central message of the episode and say "but no this isn't really about 'death', you misunderstand me. i'm not saying it's not about death, i'm saying it's not about suicide. the idea of suicide doesn't really exist in a post-death afterlife. while it's not wrong to think of the door as a suicide door, it's not really right either
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Jan 31, 2020 17:01
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Sub Rosa posted:Tahani deciding to stick around and help people makes her seem like the only character that really understood the moral message of the show. tahani reached the nearest thing there is to reincarnation in this afterlife, ending her human existence and starting a new one as a pseudo-angel. whether or not she'll eventually go through the door is an open question, she may still be a human after all and human lives are meant to end at some point. but who knows, her new existence may be infinitely fulfilling
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Jan 31, 2020 17:25
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Taear posted:I dunno, the concept just falls down to me. It's too human, it's too basic. well, you're still human, even in heaven. if you're not human, is it you who is really there? if you can't get bored or sad in heaven, is it really heaven? on an infinite time scale, if you can get bored, then it's possible to experience infinite boredom, which is the condition of the good place before the door - a place that will inevitably crush you like a prison. the door is symbolic of the idea that heaven won't turn into hell eventually by trapping people in an unnatural existence
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Jan 31, 2020 17:34
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PostNouveau posted:I mean if it's about a death you choose, then it's suicide. not really, because the nature of the thought experiment makes 'death' itself a questionable term. everyone involved in this episode 'died' in the first episode of the show, or was never really 'alive' at all. our terminology is slippery since the entire narrative is based in hypothetical afterlives and what that would do to the experience of being human PostNouveau posted:I think you should also try to see it from the perspective of people whose experiences don't, like the guy upthread who lost someone to suicide and is monumentally pissed at The Good Place right now. we can acknowledge someone's interpretation as being colored by personal trauma without agreeing with that interpretation though. i've also lost people i love to suicide, but i'm seeing the finale here through my own reconciliation with death and my inescapable end. one reason i rejected religion is that the idea of infinite heaven always seemed suspicious to me. i fear the process of dying more than i fear non-existence itself, which is just a return to the state you were in before you were born Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Jan 31, 2020 |
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Jan 31, 2020 18:03
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Taear posted:Also sending Michael to Earth as a 72 year old seems harsh, I'm saying. a shitload of existence makes more sense if you're born wholly formed as a silver fox would you rather be brought into being as some loving idiot infant or as a confident slick rear end white man? i rest my case Bobbin Threadbare posted:That final sense of contentment they explore in this last episode is a real feeling, although you have to be pretty lucky for your body to hold out long enough for you to experience it. But that's why I don't see the door as a matter of suicide. Because people who get one chance at life and go through a paltry seven to ten decades have experienced the feeling that brings people to the door. The main characters don't age in The Good Place and so they have to go out and walk through the door, but when people experience that feeling in reality, the door comes to them. Maybe some people never experience that feeling and keep going for as long as their bodies will let them, but that's fine, too. agreed! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BXyfCGDnuWs
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Feb 1, 2020 06:09
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Taear posted:There's a difference between "it's not possible to show it because it's too expensive" and "Chidi specifically says stuff to her about how it worked in the past which implies that they haven't ever been there". elanor, being elanor, can't help but imagine Buff Plato because she likes hot muscle dudes and probably wasn't paying too much attention if and when she visited past athens with chidi it is a joke, don't overthink the ramifications that a one liner has on how the made up afterlife works
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Feb 1, 2020 16:39
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Android Blues posted:Life extension is quite likely to happen at some point in the future. Indefinite life extension will likely follow. This probably won't be in either of our lifetimes, but the present science points that way. It would be good for future generations if they didn't have to cope with death in the same ways that we do. Like, do you disagree with that, fundamentally? the science is often wrong in terms of social ramifications of technology, and we don't know of any undying organisms with the same level of complexity as ourselves. the only viable immortality is complete transhumanism and, placed in a social context, i don't want to live forever with human-like creatures who will continue to hoard wealth and power beyond generations. like imagine a world were jeff bezos never dies but continues to get richer, or a world where gilded age or earlier aristocrats from centuries ago never relinquished their wealth or power. there are some horrifying ramifications to endless human life, far worse than the natural fear of death inherent in all living things what kind of hosed up world is it if you're born a serf to an immortal lord who has been on the throne for ten thousand generations and you will never escape that social position? why would you assume that immortality would be distributed equally? Mr. Fall Down Terror fucked around with this message at 18:42 on Feb 26, 2020 |
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Feb 26, 2020 18:40
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if the only thing the immortal wealthy have to fear are riots and targeted violence from poor immortals then the logical choice for them is to impose population control on the lower classes like the nuts and bolts of immortality is one thing, but the practical application of immortality among human beings is pretty ugly unless we assume some sort of "i would simply make having problems illegal" level of avoiding the obvious outcomes
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Feb 26, 2020 18:59
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cosmicjim posted:You are correct death is neither good or bad. But also this fits with nothing matters. Might as well kill yourself. really doubting your command of philosophy both material and abstract, here as thought experiments go "nobody HAS to die" requires a tremendous amount of fantastical assumptions like "also we will ban inequality" and "matter replicators can make food" in order to make it anything other than a complete nightmare
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Feb 27, 2020 02:17
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Khanstant posted:It's kind of weird to frame our morality in this hypothetical of a magic immortality somehow arising (oh but it's science somehow..okay). clinical immortality is a way of creating something like an afterlife in a rationalist, materialist framework. it serves the same function as heaven but for atheists. the "with science, somehow" is critical because it has to be both handwavey enough to be desirable while also removing enough supernatural assumption to be plausible
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Feb 27, 2020 21:53
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Mulva posted:This leads to the question "Is there any biological need for death?". And the answer is "No.". There is no biological reason for why things need to die. if you mean biological as in is it necessary for organisms to just stop living because of age, then maybe not. there are a few rare immortal organisms. but biology also implies an ecosystem, in which organisms consume one another to perpetuate their own lives and cause death to each other. as discrete entities we are also inseparable from the ecology web which sustains us. the implication of an ever growing population of immortal humans is also terrifying in ecological terms, unless we use other magical escape hatches like "space colonization" and "synthetic food" and so on
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Feb 27, 2020 23:50
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