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bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



Colostomy Bag posted:

Ok, sounds like we have a mess going on but at least you have an "appointment". Which is bullshit. Should have 15 minutes of public before the board closes the doors.

I probably could do it that way but at this stage not sure it's worth it. We'll see.

quote:

One caveat, how many homes do you estimate under your association?

There's like 720 total in the whole neighborhood but that includes the oldest houses that all voted themselves out so I don't really know how many are still in, I'd guess 400 at a minimum.

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Fooma
Oct 15, 2010

nom nom nom


Colostomy Bag posted:

So anyways we are having a second uprising brewing on Nextdoor. And I knew it was coming as soon as I did my John Hancock to approve the dues increase last month. Said increase is $20 a year.

I get it, I really do. Hell I have to pay them too.

Glad you volunteer. I manage about 260 associations and every one runs differently, and every Board member has their own reasons for serving.

People don't like to be reminded of a dues and Associations are perpetually "spending too much money". I recommend just replying with the approved budget, citing to #pages of bids behind each number and remind them this is a corporation of their peers. Some Associations haven't had dues increases in a decade and people wonder why an extra $20-$30 a year increase is necessary when costs of labor, material and contractors have risen.

For those who are curious about their associations and the Boards, remember they're all volunteers who are part kinder garden teacher, part politician, and part corporate acquisitions executive. The vast majority are just doing their best. They should always be prepared to explain what they are doing and why, you don't have to agree with the decision but at least you will understand how the decisions were made. If Boards go silent or oppose reasonable requests, then that's when you get to social media to find the bigger story.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Fooma posted:


For those who are curious about their associations and the Boards, remember they're all volunteers who are part kinder garden teacher, part politician, and part corporate acquisitions executive. The vast majority are just doing their best. They should always be prepared to explain what they are doing and why, you don't have to agree with the decision but at least you will understand how the decisions were made. If Boards go silent or oppose reasonable requests, then that's when you get to social media to find the bigger story.

Thank you, I sincerely appreciate your comments.

Some of the comments on social media are so filled with vitriol I just laugh. "I think they just want to feel some sort of self-importance."

Ok, step on down. Sit for 3 hours listening to quotes (which we try to find the one with most value, hence keeping your dues down), understanding various regulations in regards to storm drains and who are responsible for another hour, and then wonder what to do about some guy that took a dump next to the pool house.

Yeah, it's a blast.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011



Grimey Drawer

Yay HOA stuff!

Kidding. Iím on the board of our HOA (19 units, 3 are part of an affordable housing coalition), we have to take care of a 161,000 gallon storm water tank. Our HOA provides lawn service & snow removal (though not required in bylaws and covenants...)
Iím the SME/city liaison for the stormwater tank lol.

Being on the board is interesting and exasperating. When I bought this property, I had misgivings about being in an HOA. Now that Iíve been in the board for six years I can say with certainty, that my misgivings were correct.

Definitely do serve on your HOA, it is a worthwhile activity, albeit unappreciated & unpaid. watching the sausage get made has been enlightening, witnessing the speed and power of the HOA has been terrifying.

Fooma
Oct 15, 2010

nom nom nom


some_admin posted:

Yay HOA stuff!

Kidding. Iím on the board of our HOA (19 units, 3 are part of an affordable housing coalition), we have to take care of a 161,000 gallon storm water tank. Our HOA provides lawn service & snow removal (though not required in bylaws and covenants...)
Iím the SME/city liaison for the stormwater tank lol.

Being on the board is interesting and exasperating. When I bought this property, I had misgivings about being in an HOA. Now that Iíve been in the board for six years I can say with certainty, that my misgivings were correct.

Definitely do serve on your HOA, it is a worthwhile activity, albeit unappreciated & unpaid. watching the sausage get made has been enlightening, witnessing the speed and power of the HOA has been terrifying.

"If not you, then who?" is an important for Board members to remember, a lot of people don't like HOAs or want to gut their budgets for personal reasons, but they have a required purpose that can't fail. It's cheaper and easier to maintain then pick up the broken pieces later.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Fooma posted:

a lot of people don't like HOAs or want to gut their budgets for personal reasons, but they have a required purpose that can't fail.
Truth. A lot of the hidden things (public space upkeep, lighting, asphalt maintenance, etc) get taken for granted. It's possible to have a bunch of retired crazypeople on the board and the time investment can be maddening, but it is really interesting to see how all the dues collected get spent or saved for upkeep projects with a properly staffed and managed board.

The absolute worst is watching people ignore poo poo for months and just show up going "Wait why is my ugly pink house getting painted arglebargle!" or listening to people make crazy-rear end demands like "I know the streets are narrow but I really feel like I should be able to park my Winnebago for days on end at the fire lane which no one even uses!"

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



some_admin posted:

Yay HOA stuff!

Kidding. Iím on the board of our HOA (19 units, 3 are part of an affordable housing coalition), we have to take care of a 161,000 gallon storm water tank. Our HOA provides lawn service & snow removal (though not required in bylaws and covenants...)
Iím the SME/city liaison for the stormwater tank lol.

Being on the board is interesting and exasperating. When I bought this property, I had misgivings about being in an HOA. Now that Iíve been in the board for six years I can say with certainty, that my misgivings were correct.

Definitely do serve on your HOA, it is a worthwhile activity, albeit unappreciated & unpaid. watching the sausage get made has been enlightening, witnessing the speed and power of the HOA has been terrifying.

The water/drainage stuff was the big eye opener for me. The amount of futzing around between us, the city, and the county and who gets the responsibility of it is quite a learning curve. There is a ton of stuff to know and become acquainted with.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



Colostomy Bag posted:

Ok, sounds like we have a mess going on but at least you have an "appointment". Which is bullshit. Should have 15 minutes of public before the board closes the doors.

One caveat, how many homes do you estimate under your association?

I was wrong, HOAs are utter trash.

They came to look at the trees and said "Yep, those are sure loving up your view and are going to gently caress it up totally in the future, we'll check and see if they were on the approved landscaping plan." and then sent me a letter not saying whether or not they were on the landscaping plan, just that I don't have a protected view.

I thought you put up with all the stupid little poo poo like getting yelled at for a weed or leaving your garbage can visible from the street on a Saturday so that they'll cover you on the really big stuff that actually matters but apparently my HOA only cares about the stupid little poo poo.

DangerZoneDelux
Jul 26, 2006



Your view of what?

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



Mountains, city, downtown.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



bird with big dick posted:

They came to look at the trees and said "Yep, those are sure loving up your view and are going to gently caress it up totally in the future, we'll check and see if they were on the approved landscaping plan." and then sent me a letter not saying whether or not they were on the landscaping plan, just that I don't have a protected view.
They realized they hosed up and someone approved that plan without caring about the trees, I bet.

Ask to see the docs. It impacts you so you should have a right to that.

The plan should have been public at some point so it's your right to leaf through it.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



FilthyImp posted:

They realized they hosed up and someone approved that plan without caring about the trees, I bet.

I think so too but thereís a lot of other legalese BS involved. It could come down to a document saying ďmay denyĒ instead of ďwill denyĒ or ďwill consider viewsĒ not meaning anything at all legally (ie they can consider how much itís absolutely going to poo poo your view down the toilet and still approve the view destruction after they duly considered it.)

quote:

The plan should have been public at some point so it's your right to leaf through it.

As far as I know and what theyíve said the plans go from the owner to the property management company to the Architectural Committee and thatís it. When I first contacted them a year ago I didnít even ask for the plan just said the equivalent of ďuhhh hey whatís up with thisĒ and they responded along the lines of ďthey had an approved plan and we canít say anything more due to privacy laws.Ē

Weíll see. Itís probably throwing good money after bad but itís worth at least a couple grand to me for a lawyer to tell me what my options and chances are.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



FilthyImp posted:

They realized they hosed up and someone approved that plan without caring about the trees, I bet.

Ask to see the docs. It impacts you so you should have a right to that.

The plan should have been public at some point so it's your right to leaf through it.

This. We had a homeowner who sits on the edge of subdivision. So behind him is not an association road, just a dual lane one that gets a fair amount of traffic. Now the thing is back yard doesn't go all way the way to road (and I don't mean an easement, but common ground.) He wanted to plant trees in the common ground. He had a huge display setup, and agreed the trees would be under his care. There was also a clause included if he sold his house then the onus is on the next homeowner.

So at the very least, should have that or minutes addressing this.

bird with big dick
Oct 21, 2015



This isnít on common ground.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



bird with big dick posted:

This isnít on common ground.

My next board meeting is this upcoming Monday. I'll raise the hypothetical (as I present your plight) question and see what the response is. I'm pretty much drat sure what it will be.

Cage Kicker
Feb 20, 2009


End of the fiscal year, bitch.
MP's got time to order pens for year year, hooah?


SKILCRAFT KREW Reppin' Quality Blind Made



Lipstick Apathy

What would be the best way to destroy and dismantle a HoA from within?

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Cage Kicker posted:

What would be the best way to destroy and dismantle a HoA from within?

Pretty much impossible. It's not like some jury nullification type stuff. Even if you could "pad" the board with your pals like you were appointing the Supreme Court you'd still have issues.

Think of it this way, for something to change in our fabric, by-laws requires 75% vote of all homeowners. That poo poo ain't happening.

But if you have a small HOA there is always hope if you pound on doors and have a platform to stand on for change.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Cage Kicker posted:

What would be the best way to destroy and dismantle a HoA from within?
Find fiscal malfeasance or an instance of the board shirking duties. Barring that, read up on your state's HOA laws and see what isn't being upheld or what is cause for removal. Barring that, see if your governing docs need to be updated and try to get in on that to affect change so that no one gets a $50 nuisance ticket for a bird feeder or Sunday times left on the doorstep past 11am.

Keep in mind if you're in a PUD/PUC/whatever setup there's a lot of poo poo the HOA is set up to pay for that will now be on the homeowners to take care of. poo poo like replacing asphalt/concrete, commons area gardening, maintenance costs for gates/door leading into the complex, paint for commons exteriors, etc.

Or, imagine that a water main bursts and takes out a section of land and garden for you and three neighbors. Costs to fix everything totals somewhere in the neighborhood of $45k. Have fun deciding how much you 3 homeowners will divvy that up, and you better hope it doesn't affect anyone else because they'll be up your rear end about how long it'll take to get fixed.

Vandall
Jul 11, 2001


I also recently joined my HOA to see "how the sausage was made". It's been an interesting experience to be sure. Though I can't speak for all, in my case the board is made up of busy professionals who are all trying to do their best to maintain their community in their spare time. The easiest/hardest thing to manage is when homeowners get upset with a decision that is completely objective - ie the CC&Rs make a particular issue clear, and the board's job is to uphold the CC&Rs. Don't get mad at your board for enforcing rules that you agreed to when you moved into the neighborhood!

Coasterphreak
May 29, 2007
I like cookies.

Vandall posted:

I also recently joined my HOA to see "how the sausage was made". It's been an interesting experience to be sure. Though I can't speak for all, in my case the board is made up of busy professionals who are all trying to do their best to maintain their community in their spare time. The easiest/hardest thing to manage is when homeowners get upset with a decision that is completely objective - ie the CC&Rs make a particular issue clear, and the board's job is to uphold the CC&Rs. Don't get mad at your board for enforcing rules that you agreed to when you moved into the neighborhood!

Any examples from your experience?

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Vandall posted:

Don't get mad at your board for enforcing rules that you agreed to when you moved into the neighborhood!

This is what it basically boils down to. There is a fine line between running some Stalin-esque thing versus just let everything go.

Our main complaints are dues and then bitching about the results of said dues. Some are entirely out of our hand. Our local electric company needed to replace a ton of transformers (these are the type on the ground, big green box style). So they subcontract it. Had to tear up sections of sidewalk, they kept screwing around with it (meaning delays). Of course it was a mess, and if that poo poo was in my backyard I'd be pissed as hell too but one doesn't understand all the crap behind the scenes and what goes on for the reason for it. And sure, we bitched and moaned but the response was "weather related" or whatever. Which I can buy a lot of it, but at the end of the day we get the heat.

I'm waiting for the day someone does some totally off the wall bizarre color change to their house without running it past us. Oh boy.

tk
Dec 10, 2003



Nap Ghost

Vandall posted:

Don't get mad at your board for enforcing rules that you agreed to when you moved into the neighborhood!

Housing is not so readily available that this is a reasonable statement.

Colostomy Bag posted:

I'm waiting for the day someone does some totally off the wall bizarre color change to their house without running it past us. Oh boy.

Doing Godís work right here.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

As a matter of curiosity, what exactly would be the rationale behind giving a poo poo what color someone's house is painted so long as it's in good repair and not causing a hazard to anyone?

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade




Liquid Communism posted:

As a matter of curiosity, what exactly would be the rationale behind giving a poo poo what color someone's house is painted so long as it's in good repair and not causing a hazard to anyone?

Property value for neighboring properties. The problem isn't necessarily the person who wants to paint their house very light blue rather than beige, it's the guy who wants to paint it black and red, or fuschia, or some other objectionable color. Whether or not it actually has an impact on property values is a completely different argument, it's more of a preventative measure because there are people out there who are just assholes and will push boundaries just because they can.

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



Liquid Communism posted:

As a matter of curiosity, what exactly would be the rationale behind giving a poo poo what color someone's house is painted so long as it's in good repair and not causing a hazard to anyone?
It's a weird confluence of
* it's possible that the Board has sole authority to approve or execute changes to the externals of the homes or at least has a review process

* conformity is usually an indication that the community is managed well / is appealing for future residents

* people needing to realize they move into an HOA-run community means a bunch of limits to things

I've seen folks get red faced and throw tantrums when told their home wouldn't be Grey anymore, and someone else moan that their childhood home was peach and their home should be peach because of that.


VvV
To be clear, I think there's nothing stopping residents from getting together and petitioning for a change in the bylaws or CC&Rs to remove the board's duty to regulate home colors.

FilthyImp fucked around with this message at 03:36 on Jan 18, 2020

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

Shooting Blanks posted:

Property value for neighboring properties. The problem isn't necessarily the person who wants to paint their house very light blue rather than beige, it's the guy who wants to paint it black and red, or fuschia, or some other objectionable color. Whether or not it actually has an impact on property values is a completely different argument, it's more of a preventative measure because there are people out there who are just assholes and will push boundaries just because they can.

Just the usual bullshit that comes from treating housing as an asset that must appreciate.

corgski
Feb 6, 2007



This might be a hard question to answer but I know my generation has a particular disdain for HOAs. For example, my fiancť and I are shopping for a house right now and our realtor specifically asked us if we were interested in considering any properties in an HOA. Similarly, Zillow now allows you to specifically exclude properties in HOA neighborhoods when youíre window shopping houses.

Have you noticed any drop in property values in HOA neighborhoods (relative to surrounding properties) as millennials have started buying houses?

Blue Moonlight
Apr 28, 2005
Bitter and Sarcastic

corgski posted:

Have you noticed any drop in property values in HOA neighborhoods (relative to surrounding properties) as millennials have started buying houses?

Well, youíre like one of six millennials in the market to buy a house, so I canít imagine itís affecting prices too much.

(Seriously though, congrats.)

corgski
Feb 6, 2007



There are dozens of us! Dozens!

luxury handset
Jan 24, 2018

THE DEM DEFENDER HAS LOGGED ON


corgski posted:

This might be a hard question to answer but I know my generation has a particular disdain for HOAs. For example, my fiancť and I are shopping for a house right now and our realtor specifically asked us if we were interested in considering any properties in an HOA. Similarly, Zillow now allows you to specifically exclude properties in HOA neighborhoods when youíre window shopping houses.

Have you noticed any drop in property values in HOA neighborhoods (relative to surrounding properties) as millennials have started buying houses?

buying a single family home in an HOA won't be a dealbreaker for many but for some it is a hard line no sell, so it's better for an agent to know if you have any strong feelings about HOAs before they start showing you properties

the vagaries of the housing market are such that it is unlikely that HOAs have any impact on property values one way or the other, except as a tool of socioeconomic exclusion (no parking vehicles in your driveway or on street effectively bans shared living houses by capping household vehicle ownership to 2-3 cars at most) and then some people feel like a neighborhood is worth more because the 'wrong' kind of people aren't living there visibly

Brain Curry
Feb 15, 2007

People think that I'm lazy
People think that I'm this fool because
I give a fuck about the government
I didn't graduate from high school


Liquid Communism posted:

As a matter of curiosity, what exactly would be the rationale behind giving a poo poo what color someone's house is painted so long as it's in good repair and not causing a hazard to anyone?

Our HOAs approved color list is basically that Family Guy getting pulled over joke, so my guess is sublimation.

CBJSprague24
Dec 5, 2010

Again, Torts took him to a very high mountain and showed him Nationwide and all its splendor.

"All this I will give you," he said, "if you will lay down and block for me." -Jackets 15:16



I was basically voluntold to run for my neighborhood's HOA in 2018 because they had nobody else to run. I wasn't particularly interested but took one for the team because the President is a solid person. About a month before the election, another person threw their hat in the ring and won, which I was fine with.

The next year, the HOA was holding an election for President and the challenger, who I think wasn't firing on all eight cylinders, had an invite-only event for selected members of the community for a Q&A. The challenger started a bit of a smear campaign (for an HOA Presidency) and things got so bitter amongst the residents that it led to one, lone protester sitting in a lawnchair with an umbrella and a sign in the rain outside the event. The incumbent won.

I was asked to run for another vacant spot and told them I had too many irons in the fire at this point.

Oakey
Dec 29, 2000


Fooma posted:

"If not you, then who?" is an important for Board members to remember, a lot of people don't like HOAs or want to gut their budgets for personal reasons, but they have a required purpose that can't fail. It's cheaper and easier to maintain then pick up the broken pieces later.

Go figure, the person who does this a ton nails it exactly.

I was the president of the board for 7 years for an 18-unit condo building. I had precisely zero desire to do it, but everyone in the building who could also have done the job didn't have the personality to stand up to the morons that I really, really didn't want in charge of where I was both living and had an investment.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Yep.

Good stuff.

Liquid Communism
Mar 9, 2004


Out here, everything hurts.




Fun Shoe

corgski posted:

There are dozens of us! Dozens!

Yeah, at least locally that pressure is approximately zero because most house sales are going to flippers and investors rather than individual buyers... because there's a whole generation who either can't afford poo poo, or make enough that they want a custom McMansion, and nothing in between.

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Recent board duties...boy I had to cast a stressful vote on what banners we have for Spring at our main entrances. Can't wait to hear about the complaints!

But other bigger ones, drainage, plans, dicking around with the city, etc. I'm up for re-election, should be interesting insofar as a couple folks are tossing their hats in the ring but I'm just going to assume they'll get assigned to different positions and I can continue my distinguished career on the board with a couple votes. Which reminds me, next meeting this Monday.

some_admin
Oct 11, 2011



Grimey Drawer

<sigh> crazy people. My HOA is involved in a dispute w/our non-HOA neighbor (CP).

This is the second legal issue with out HOA in the 10 years it has been extant.

I can't talk about this one yet, because there is litigation pending.

The first legal issue in our HOA was interesting though:
There are 3 units in our development that are owned in partnership with the homeowner and an affordable housing coalition. (AFHC keeps 3/4 of equity in house, there are income restrictions to who can get into the program.

So, one of the affordable housing unit owners, without paying any attention to covenants or informing HOA, digs up his side yard (tiny, specifically allocated to drainage, with cross sections and details of the rock fill etc) and fills it with top soil and sod, adds some sprinklers. (At the time, we on the HOA board did not fully comprehend the scope of covenants or the power of the HOA)
Probably this would have gone unnoticed, but...

So this owner, living in an affordable* housing unit, then decides that it will be a really neat idea to RENT out his house, and move out of state. (not at all allowed by housing coalition!, its affordable housing not affordable investment)
Probably, this would have gone unnoticed, but...

His tenants are smoking cannabis in the side yard, kids are kicking a soccerball into the wall of the house next door.
(The side yards are 10' wide)

So one day I get an email from aggrieved neighbor, (lives next this clown). She'd like to know if she can build a fence down the property line, has some issues with neighbors. I'm unaware of any of these issues, so I tell her that that's not allowed, but she should request an HOA meeting to discuss any issues she is having.

two days later we get a letter form her attorney, invoking the covenant clauses, (no disturbing neighbors, no changing irrigation/grade)

Colostomy Bag
Jan 11, 2016

C-Bangin' it



Holy hell that is interesting and quite a mess.

Sounds like she is quite sharp, invoking the attorney to enforce covenant clauses. While tossing in "let me build a fence" to sort of bend your hand.

I hate to say it, but you have to be an rear end in a top hat when dealing with people. You give them an inch...

And how did the affordable housing get in? Was it before your time?

FilthyImp
Sep 30, 2002

Nope



That sucks, because now you have to spend Association Money to respond with the Association's Attorney and it won't come cheap.

Afaik you'd still need to discuss the changes in the meeting.

Out of curiosity what keeps y'all from building fences at the property lines? (That's something the Association should do and handle the maintenance on). Is there no allocated budget for fences and upkeep??

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rujasu
Dec 18, 2013



Colostomy Bag posted:

So just to share a little bit more, we oversee 1,100 homes and around 3,000 people. A small city, so crazy stuff happens.

So what's your pick?

1) Chronic public masurbator moves back in with in his GF after serving some sort of time.
2a) Drunk people taking a poo poo next the club house.
2b) Relates to #2; we have a great pool complex and people hop the fence after hours.
3) Our old angry maintenance man gets into fisticuffs with a lovely vendor that we have a legal feud over.
4) A resident of our community that shows up an hour late to discuss problems with our golf pro and course conditions. And he didn't want to leave.

Take your pick. They are all fun.

It doesn't look like you ever got to any of these, but I for one would like to hear any/all of these stories

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