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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?



All Forum Rules Apply in SAS

Forum-specific Guidelines - These are largely cribbed straight from Hand Knit's over-arching Sports Argument Sanctum Rules Thread

Streams — As a general rule, streams for PPVs will be considered Other streams are fine. Be sensible, avoid linking janky ad-laden crap and remember that anything outside of SA you click on at your own risk.

Game Day Threads — GDTs are very casual, and rules will not be enforced strictly. The "Don't Be A Dick" rule remains in effect, you do not have leeway to poo poo on somebody because you're "just goofing around".

Rivals.com Puns — Terrible word play on a player or team’s name is strongly discouraged. - You can take my Butt "The Shitman" Fart from my cold, dead hands. Unless they're grossly offensive, puns are fine in Rowdy Ringsports (this does not extend outside the subforum)

Racism, Homophobia and Transphobia — No. Zero. None. Irony is no exception. gently caress off if you can't post without making a lovely joke at the expense of somebody's sexuality or ethnicity.

Posting about Posters - It's not always avoidable, but it usually is. If you can't stand somebody or you think they're goading you, report them or put them on ignore (or both). If you want to have it out with somebody, PM them. This is not permission to blast somebody's inbox with endless PMs, this is just to take an argument out of the thread so everybody else can post in it normally.

DON'T BE A DICK - If you get reported and you're not technically breaking any rules but you're still being a dick, you'll get a probation. Might be short, might be long, depends on the context. If you think this is bad, there's a secret method to get around it. You simply don't be a dick.

NEW RULE 11/17/2019:

Forums user rovert is now forbidden from posting in Rowdy Ringsports, on pain of an immediate ban. He can post anywhere else he wants to (and is subject to the rules of those subforums) but he cannot ever, ever, ever post in Rowdy Ringsports. If he does so, he is to be immediately reported and he will be immediately banned with no questions asked, regardless of what he posts. Anybody engaging with rovert if he attempts to post will be subject to a sixer, so we can avoid endless derails about him or paying him any attention, which is what he really, desperately seems to want above all else.

USE THE REPORT BUTTON!

There is no official FIGHT ISLAND Discord or any other chat app.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 09:48 on Jun 24, 2020

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Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


PLACES TO WATCH WRESTLING:

American Promotions:
The WWE Network - Currently $9.99 a month, includes livestreams of all PPVs. NXT and NXT UK are aired weekly, and replays of Raw and Smackdown are added a month after original airing. Has a huge archive of wrestling material from WWE and multiple other promotions they own the rights to, most notably WCW. New shows go up regularly including documentaries, interview shows and special themed collections. Free months are frequently offered to entice new subscribers. Currently Raw airs for three hours on USA Network at 8pm EST on Mondays, NXT for two hours on Wednesday at 8pm EST on USA, and Smackdown for two hours on Friday at 8pm EST on Fox. Currently NXT is meant to be available on the Network 24 hours after first airing on USA.
All Elite Wrestling - A brand new wrestling promotion with big money and big stars involved, AEW airs on TNT on Wednesdays for two hours from 8pm EST, with AEW Dark airing on Youtube on Tuesdays at 8pm EST. Currently PPVs have been offered in the US on Bleacher Report and on Fite TV in the rest of the world. Outside of the US you can access the weekly Dynamite show live as it airs (and then on VOD) for $5 a month on Fite.tv.
Ring of Honor's Honor Club - Currently $9.99 a month, offers livestreams of all PPVs, access to the weekly television program and a VOD library. The weekly television also airs on Sinclair Broadcasting channels in the United States, you will need to check your local listings for times.
Impact Wrestling - The former TNA Wrestling, airs weekly on the following channels/times worldwide but also airs replays weekly on Twitch.
Chikaratopia - Currently $7.99 a month, a comedy-centric American wrestling promotion with a cult following.
Pro Wrestling Guerrilla - No current live service or video uploads, the only way to watch is to buy DVDs directly from them. Has an extremely dedicated fanbase and is highly regarded for the quality of its live shows.
Game Changer Wrestling - PPVs available through fite.tv, produces live shows that people really enjoy.
National Wrestling Alliance - POWERRR airs Tuesdays at 6:05pm EST on the NWA's Youtube Page
Major League Wrestling - Available live through BeIN Sports, and regular uploads are made to their Youtube channel

Japanese Promotions:
New Japan World - Currently 999Yen a month, includes livestreams of most shows (shows not being livesteamed is the exception, not the rule) and significant archives going back decades. Most shows are available with English commentary as an option. Be aware that in Japan, billing cycles start on the 1st of the month, regardless of how late in the prior month you signed up, so it is possible to be billed for two months within only a couple of days of each other depending on when you signed up.
All Japan Pro-Wrestling TV - Currently 900Yen a month, airs major events live and has VOD going back to 2017, but none of the incredible 1990s All Japan content, which is owned by NIPPON TV. Most of those, which aren't currently legally available for purchase anywhere, can be found here.
DDT Pro Universe - Currently 900Yen a month, a comedy-centric Japanese wrestling promotion that also has very, very good matches. Universe also includes DDT's sister promotion Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling. Update: DDT's parent company also owns Pro-Wrestling Noah now and certain shows will be featured on DDT Pro Universe
Pro-Wrestling Noah - Now owned by DDT's parent company, and shows are available on their online service DDT Pro Universe.
Dragon Gate - Currently 1500Yen a month, includes livestreams and VOD of the entire archive.
Big Japan Pro-Wrestling Core - Currently 888Yen a month, noted for its Deathmatch style wrestling. Provides livestreams and VOD.

Japanese Women's Promotions (Joshi):
Stardom World - Currently 920Yen a month. All shows are VOD only, but come with English subtitles and are broken down into individual matches for viewing convenience. Addendum OCT 17, 2019: New Japan's Parent Company BushiRoad now owns Stardom. At the current time there are no plans for Stardom World to change up how anything is run.
Sendai Girls - Uploads via their Youtube channel.
Gatoh Move - Uploads via their Youtube channel.
Marvelous - Currently 600Yen a month.
Pro Wrestling Diana - Intermittent uploads to their Youtube channel.
YMZ - Currently 999Yen a month.
Tokyo Joshi Pro Wrestling - Included with a DDT Pro Universe subscription.

Mexican Promotions:
AAA - Airs live on twitch, in Spanish and also with English language versions available. All TV shows and match tapings are aired on the 24/7 stream, with live airings happening at 9:30pm EST on Friday nights.
CMLL - Regular uploads of shows to their Youtube channel. Schedule is as follows: Mondays Arena Puebla - 10 PM ET, Tuesdays Arena México B Show - 8:30 PM ET, Fridays Viernes Espectacular Arena México A Show - 9:30 PM ET

UK/European Promotions:
Progress - British Wrestling Promotion, $7.99 a month.
Over the Top - Irish Wrestling Promotion, $8.50 a month.
WXW Now - German Wrestling Promotion, 9.99Euro a month.

Independent Promotions:
Various Independent Promotions can be found here.

The above lists are not exhaustive/definitive, and I can add or update anything more pertinent to them if people ask.

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 02:56 on Mar 4, 2020

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


HulkaMatt posted:

BASIC WRESTLING LINGO

I've taken some of the slang that is mostly used in this forum from the "Wrestling Slang" Wikipedia Entry. If you want the full list, Click Here!


# Angle - A fictional storyline. An angle may be as small as a single match or a vendetta that lasts for years. It is not uncommon to see an angle become retconned due to it not getting "over" with the fans, or if one of the wrestlers currently involved in the angle is released from his contract.
# Attitude Era - Refers to a time period from Wrestlemania XIV to Wrestlemania XVII when the World Wrestling Federation product shifted from being "family-oriented" entertainment to being "edgier," more crude, and dealing with more adult situations (frequently sexual in nature) and ultimately was the most successful period for the company.
# Babyface - A good guy.
# Blading - The act of cutting ones self or another person open in order to bleed, usually done on the forehead.
# Botch - A scripted move that failed.
# Bump - When a wrestler hits the mat or ground.
# Bury - Refers to the worked lowering (relegation) of a popular wrestler's status in the eyes of the fans. It is also the act of a promoter or booker causing a wrestler to lose popularity by forcing him to lose matches badly (squash) and/or making him participate in unentertaining or degrading storylines. It can be a result of real-life backstage disagreements or feuds between the wrestler and the booker, the wrestler falling out of favor with the company, or the wrestler receiving an unpopular gimmick that causes him to lose credibility regardless of win-loss record. See Wrestler: Triple H.
# Busted Open - Term used to describe a wrestler that is bleeding.
# Call or Called Spot - When one wrestler instructs the other of what is going to happen in the match.
# Carry - The act of one wrestler doing most of the work (selling moves, calling spots) to make a match watchable
# Cheap pop - When a wrestler (often a face) incites a positive crowd reaction by "kissing up" to the crowd (for example, mentioning the name of the city or complimenting a local sports team). Mick Foley notoriously uses cheap pops by using the city's name and giving a foolhardy "thumbs-up" to the camera.
# Draw - To be able to attract the attention of the audience
# Face - Short for "Babyface"
# Faction or Stable - is a group of wrestlers within a promotion who have a common element -- friendships, either real or storyline, a common manager, or a common storyline -- which puts them together as a unit. Stables can be small alliances of three to six wrestlers (such as D-Generation X, Evolution, and The Four Horsemen), or supergroups that include up to half the promotion's talent roster (such as the New World Order, the WCW/ECW Alliance, Planet Jarrett, and Sports Entertainment Xtreme).
# Feud - A battle between two or more wrestlers or stables, often involving matches, promos, and angles. A feud usually lasts for several months.
# Finisher - A wrestler's trademark move that leads to a finish.
# Flair Flop - When after being pummeled (usually in the corner), Ric Flair will confidently stride out and look to have regained his composure, only to flop flat on his face.
# Gig - The blade a wrestler uses to cut himself.
# Gimmick - A wrestler's personality, behavior, attire, and/or other distinguishing traits while performing. It can also be an implement used to cheat. For example, Jeff Jarrett's gimmick is knocking out opponents with his guitar, and the guitar itself is also a "gimmick." In recent years, the emphasis has been on more realistic gimmicks which portray the wrestler as an actual person, albeit with exaggerated personality traits, as opposed to previous years during which gimmicks could be best described as cartoonish. A wrestler may be expected to portray many gimmicks during their career, most of which may be implausible or inconsistent. Sometimes a wrestler may undergo a complete change of on-screen personality from one week to the next.
# Green - Refers to a wrestler (often called a green boy) who is in the early stages of their career and, as a result, may be prone to make mistakes because of their inexperience.
# Hardcore wrestling - Matches that focus on the use of weapons such as chairs, chains, fireballs, ladders, and tire irons, often combined with brawling all over the arena, rather than traditional wrestling holds and techniques, also referred to by some as garbage wrestling.
# Hard way - When a move does much more damage than a worked move. It can also (and mostly) refers to bleeding caused legitimately, as opposed to using a blood capsule or blading.
# Heel - A bad guy.
# Highspot - A top-rope move, or a series of maneuvers perceived as dangerous.
# Hot Tag - In a tag team match, when a face wrestler tags in a fresh partner after several minutes of being dominated by his opponents. Often the hot tag happens after several teases (where the other face is enticed into the ring, only to be stopped by the referee and the heels getting away with illegal tactics).
# Hulking Up - When a wrestler begins to come back in a match by no-selling a wrestler's moves and fights back. Named for Hulk Hogan, who did this in many of his matches in America.
# Indy - Short for "independent promotion," refers to a wrestling group that is too small to compete on a national level.
# Job - A scheduled loss.
# Jobber - A wrestler whose primary function is losing to better-known wrestlers.
# Kayfabe - Term used to describe the illusion (and up-keep of the illusion) that professional wrestling is not staged (i.e. that the on-screen situations between performers represent reality). Also used by wrestlers as a signal to close ranks and stop discussing business due to an uninformed person arriving in earshot. The term is said to have been loosely derived from the Pig Latin pronunciation of the word "fake" ("akefay").
# Low Blow - Where a wrestler hits the other wrestler in the crotch.
# Lucha libre or Lucha - Mexican professional wrestling, which translates to "Free Fighting". It is used to describe the Mexican style of wrestling that consists of high-flying acrobatic moves.
# Luchador - A Mexican wrestler.
# Main eventer - A wrestler who is viewed by management to be one of the top draws on the roster and thus is promoted in Main Events.
# Manager - A performer assigned to accompany a wrestler to the ring and, usually, put them over in interviews. They are often used to help a heel cheat and incite the crowd.
# Mark - A fan who believes that the characters and events of some or all of professional wrestling are real. The term can also be applied to a fan who idolizes a particular wrestler, promotion, or style of wrestling to a point some might consider excessive.
# Marking out - A moment of enjoying professional wrestling "for what it is" rather than analyzing its staged nature.
# Mid-carder - A wrestler who wrestles in the middle of programs, is seen as being high in seniority but less than a money draw.
# Monster heel - A villain who is portrayed as unstoppable, usually to set up a feud with a promotion's lead face. Particularly applies to heels who are physically monstrous, grotesque, or just plain scary.
# Muta scale - A scale to measure the amount of blood lost by a wrestler in a match. The scale goes from 0.0 (no blood loss) to 1.0 (corresponds to the amount of blood lost by The Great Muta during a 1992 match against Hiroshi Hase, during which Muta performed what is widely hailed as the most gruesome bladejob of all time).
# No-sell - Giving no reaction to another wrestler's offense or moves.
# No-show - When a wrestler doesn't show up for a match. No-shows are usually staged, often for the purposes of a storyline. Legit no-shows are less frequent, since the wrestler (or other employee) is usually fired or suspended afterwards.
# Over - Refers to a performer whom the fans care about (either positively or negatively) or the act of making someone look good, often by losing to them. Wrestlers can be over as either faces or heels. The term suggests that the fans are buying into what the wrestler is selling, meaning his character. One of the most common ways a wrestler can be "put over" is by winning a match. It's also possible to put someone over by taking bumps or selling a move.
# Over-sell - Showing too much of a reaction to another wrestler's offense. For example, tumbling head over heels all the way across the ring from a simple punch would be an over-sell.
# Politician - A wrestler who establishes connections with management in hopes of garnering the backstage clout to influence creative and business decisions behind the scenes.
# Pop - A sudden crowd reaction, either positive or negative.
# Promo - A promotional interview (as in "cutting a promo"). Often includes either an "in-ring interview" or (on television) a skit by wrestlers and other performers to advance a storyline or feud.
# Promotion - A group that organizes professional wrestling events.
# Puroresu - Japanese Professional Wrestling
# Put Over- To allow oneself to be pinned or otherwise defeated by someone or to compliment them in an interview to get that person over.
# Psychology - The story of a match. It can be as simple as a wrestler going after someone's bad leg or trying to hit a move to which the wrestler knows they have a weakness.
# Push - When a wrestler gains popularity with wins and positive exposure. A push can be a sudden win over a major superstar, or becoming involved in a high profile angle.
# Ref bump - When the referee for a match is intentionally knocked out, generally to allow outside interference or other illegal act.
# Repackage - To completely change a wrestler's gimmick, going beyond a simple face or heel turn. Usually, wrestlers are taken off of TV for a period of time before being repackaged. Other times wrestlers are repackaged quickly, on TV, by simply acting differently.
# Rest hold - A hold applied more lightly at a designated point in a match in order to save energy.
# Rub - Situation where a wrestler that is new and/or not popular is paired with one that is, either as his ally or enemy, with the hope that some of the popularity enjoyed by the popular wrestler will "rub off" on the one that is not.
# Run-in - Occurs when one or more individuals who are not actively participating in a match run into the ring. Run-ins are almost always made by heels, typically to further a feud with a face. More often than not, a run-in will result in a "beatdown" in which the heel(s) pummel the face(s) until the script calls for the beating to stop, either from the heels' satisfaction with their handiwork, a retaliatory run-in by one or more faces, or (less often) the entrance of one or more authority figures (referees, road agents, security personnel). Sometimes a run-in results from a face wanting to stop a heel from physically punishing a weaker opponent, usually to set up a feud.
# Sandbag - To not cooperate with a throw and to act as dead weight, which makes the moves the wrestler is attempting much harder, if not impossible to pull off. It's usually done in protest to something that the wrestler performing the move has done incorrectly earlier in the match, such as not protecting his/her opponent or working stiff.
# Save - When one or more wrestlers enter the ring to aid an ally.
# Screwjob - A match with a controversial or unsatisfying finish, often involving cheating or outside interference.
# Sell - Reacting to an opponents attacks in a manner that suggests that the techniques are being applied at full-force.
# Shoot - Any "real" event in the world or wrestling (as in "shoot interview").
# Smark - A portmanteau of "smart mark," a phrase coined by Internet smart marks to describe a fan who enjoys pro wrestling despite or because they know that it is staged. AKA Stupid Dickheads.
# Sports Entertainment - A term coined by WWE to differentiate its product from traditional professional wrestling as an attempt to garner interest from a broader audience. It refers to the mix of wrestling, scripted storylines, and concepts which borrow from other forms of pop-culture entertainment.
# Spot - A preplanned move, which is designed to get a particular audience reaction or determine the pace of the match. Spots can be anything from an Irish Whip at a certain time, to a series of spots, for example a succession of reversals. Wrestlers who choreograph their matches before the show will usually decide on an opening spot and an ending, as well as several spots to use throughout the match. The remainder of the match will be divided between transition moves and general offensive and defensive moves. (See "high spot" and "blown spot")
# Spotfest - A match which consists mainly or entirely of spots, normally with little flow between moves and no logical transitions. Referring to a match as a spotfest may have positive and negative connotations. A spotfest is normally a fast-paced, exciting match with constant displays of athleticism. When the term is used in a pejorative context, the match appears choreographed (for example, it may contain Spot shuffles, where wrestlers will put themselves in obvious danger). In addition, spotfests often contain many high risk moves (i.e. aerial maneuvers), and therefore endanger the health of the participants. Spotfests tend to be more common in cruiserweight matches.
# Spot Monkey - A wrestler who is well known for focussing very heavily on cramming as many high spots into a single match without regard to in-ring psychology. More commonly found working in Cruiserweight or extreme style matches. It is mostly used as a pejorative term.
# Squash - An extremely one-sided match which is usually over quickly.
# Stiff - When a wrestler puts excessive force into his attacks or maneuvers on his opponent, deliberately or accidentally.
# Strong Style - A Japanese-inspired professional wrestling style that is worked, yet aims to deliver realistic performances. The style emphasizes stiff attacks and worked shoots.
# Superstar - A term used by the WWF/WWE when talking about a wrestler instead of "wrestler".
# Swerve - A sudden change in the direction of a storyline to surprise the fans. Usually, but not always, it involves one wrestler turning on an ally, often to join someone who had been a mutual enemy to that point. These swerves almost always lead to the start of a new feud between the former friends. Another kind of swerve is when a booker does everything in their power to convince the fans that something specific is going to happen at a show or someone they're expecting is going to debut (or come back), only to then do something completely different. It is sometimes the result of a false report by a wrestler to the press.
# Tag Team - A pair of superstars working together in a tag team match (a match which pits two or more teams of wrestlers against one another).
# Tap Out - Submitting to a submission maneuver by tapping on the mat. Unheard of in World Wrestling Entertainment until late 1997 when Bret Hart tapped out to an ankle lock applied by Ken Shamrock while the referee was bumped. Previously, wrestlers vocally told the referee if they wished to submit or not. Today, the tap-out method is almost always used.
# Turn - When a wrestler switches from face to heel or vice versa.
# Tweener - a morally ambiguous wrestler, neither a bad guy or good guy (an inbetweener), who will fight anyone regardless of alignment (i.e. Stone Cold Steve Austin). This term is also used to describe wrestlers who use tactics typically associated with heels (i.e., cheating), yet are still cheered by fans in spite of (or because of) these antics(i.e. Eddie Guerrero).
# Undercard - Matches prior to the main event. (See also Dark match).
# Unification - The act of combining two championships into one; the result of which is either an entirely new title or the consolidation of one title into another.
# Work noun. - An event booked to happen, from the carnival tradition of "working the crowd." The opposite of a work is a shoot.
# Work, verb. - To specifically and methodically attack, especially a single body part. To "work" on a body part (i.e. an arm) would be to repeatedly use force on that part, until it is damaged enough to be used in the finish of the match.
# Worked Shoot - A scripted segment that takes place in a show with elements of reality being exposed. It can also be a segment that fans are meant to believe is a shoot, but is not.
# Workrate - A wrestler's use of "work" to develop a match. One's workrate is determined by his or her ability to "work" in an intelligent and productive manner. When used by critics, it is an analysis of the action in a match and the skill level exhibited.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


NEW RULE 11/17/2019:

Forums user rovert is now forbidden from posting in Rowdy Ringsports, on pain of an immediate ban. He can post anywhere else he wants to (and is subject to the rules of those subforums) but he cannot ever, ever, ever post in Rowdy Ringsports. If he does so, he is to be immediately reported and he will be immediately banned with no questions asked, regardless of what he posts. Anybody engaging with rovert if he attempts to post will be subject to a sixer, so we can avoid endless derails about him or paying him any attention, which is what he really, desperately seems to want above all else.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





Vinceflex is now legal

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





Vinceflex is now rebanned.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


USE THE REPORT BUTTON!

I can't stress enough how important the report button is. It is the absolute best and most effective way to make mods aware of potential issues in the subforum. There are two mods, one of whom covers another subforum in addition to this one, but contrary to what you may believe, we do not read every single thread and take specific notes on every post and user. Sometimes we miss drama, sometimes we don't grasp the significance of a post, often we wake up in the morning and there are hundreds of new posts made across multiple threads and we've got work, food, socializing, exercise, relaxing, hobbies etc to take care of so we check for reports, see nothing and assume everything is fine (usually it is, sometimes it isn't, every so often it REALLY isn't). We're also making judgment calls ourselves as we read threads, but we primarily try to read and post exactly like every other user rather than try to view everything through the lens of moderation. Reports REALLY help us figure out when we need to shift focus.

What are the pluses of using the report button?
  • You make us aware of a potential problem we may have missed.
  • You aren't furthering a thread degenerating into an argument that probably 95% of the other posters reading it don't give the slightest poo poo about.
  • You are creating a PERMANENT record which is fantastic for future review. Not only is it recorded that an issue was brought to the mods' attention, but it allows us to see patterns on potential problem posters.
  • It also creates a PERMANENT record of how the mods dealt with an issue. We can't edit out our response/decision once an admin has actioned a mod response. When a mod leaves or changes, replacement mods can also see how they dealt with it, who was a regular repeat offender etc.

What are the minuses of using the report button?
  • There aren't any.

All users can use the report button. There are limits on how many reports can be made in a day but unless disaster strikes this is unlikely to be a particular problem.

If you've ever pondered or asked,"How come <x> hasn't been probated for a post?" or "Wow this one post was REALLY bad how the hell did that go undealt with?" the answer 90% of the time is because it was never reported and the mods were unaware it ever happened. Use the report button! Worst case scenario is myself or Junpei don't consider it a problem, and past experience is that it quickly becomes apparent we were wrong. There have only been 2-3 times since I became mod that action needed to be stepped up to an Admin to review, and having reports to look back on was of enormous benefit to us both rather than relying on the conflicting memories of myself and the poster who raised the issue.

USE THE REPORT BUTTON!

Jerusalem fucked around with this message at 08:15 on May 28, 2020

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


There is not now and for as long as I am mod never will be an official Discord or other such offsite chatroom for FIGHT ISLAND. You're free to get together on discord/chat apps all you want but it has no bearing on or relation to anything that happens in this subforum, and anybody bringing drama/feuds/bullshit from a discord into a thread will get probated for importing off-site drama.

Junpei Hyde
Mar 15, 2013


Never believe in lies





Please don't horny post. If you think a post you're gonna make is too horny then it probably is, don't post it.

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


I'm gonna consolidate/update the rules into a new thread, but over in the Speaking Out thread somebody asked if it would be possible to have a chance to ask for some further clarification on things that they don't think are clear. I figured I'd open this old thread up for a day or so, and Junpei and I will try our best to answer any questions you have, and use that as a guide for making sure the new thread is as clear and straightforward as possible.

Seth Rollins
Oct 24, 2001

i'll always take care of you


Muldoon

new rule: Seth Rollins the poster is your friend

NienNunb
Feb 15, 2012

still a threat



Seth Rollins posted:

new rule: Seth Rollins the poster is your friend

I like the way this R'ollins thinks

The Croc
Dec 19, 2004

A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird!

OH YEAH!



Jru should be louder, angrier and have access to a time machine

Punch McLightning
Sep 19, 2005

family sticks together





Grimey Drawer

Jerusalem posted:

I'm gonna consolidate/update the rules into a new thread, but over in the Speaking Out thread somebody asked if it would be possible to have a chance to ask for some further clarification on things that they don't think are clear. I figured I'd open this old thread up for a day or so, and Junpei and I will try our best to answer any questions you have, and use that as a guide for making sure the new thread is as clear and straightforward as possible.

What steps will you take to prevent another Rovert the next time we get one?

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?



Also another DoctorGonzo/Zeta Acosta, and Mel Mudkiper? How will you address bad faith posters who make the forums a less pleasant place for everyone?

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.





Senerio posted:

Also another DoctorGonzo/Zeta Acosta, and Mel Mudkiper? How will you address bad faith posters who make the forums a less pleasant place for everyone?

Especially in the case of DG/ZA, specifically posters who are (in his case consistently) antagonistic/hateful to the LGBTQ+ community? I know I'm not the only one who felt really uncomfortable about that in particular

Prokhor Zakharov
Dec 31, 2008
Good luck with your depression!


doctor gonzo was straight up one of the worst posters this sub has ever seen and the fact that he was ever allowed to come back under that or any name was really really gross

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?



--retracting this argument--

Senerio fucked around with this message at 01:40 on Jun 23, 2020

MotU
Mar 6, 2007

If you're gonna do it, do it with ~*~Axefaire~*~


Pillbug

<retracted>

MotU fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Jun 23, 2020

Senerio
Oct 19, 2009

Ooh! Are we messing with Adora?




Fine i'll retract this argument. Please remove my quoted post.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?




I'm going to start this off by saying that I adore both our moderators, they're both total sweethearts. However, I think that the fact that they're both very easy-going people has kind of pushed PSP into an almost lawless world, where people are just given too much slack for too long and by the time they're banished or perma-banned the damage to our community has already been done. I know both J-Ru and Junpei are trying to be better at this but I feel like an Idiot King who is a lot more willing to lay the hammer down and nip things in the bud might be appropriate.

I really do appreciate that both of our mods always try and DM the person causing problems first but sometimes those people are so set in their ways that a handful of sixers really isn't enough and I hate that so many decent people have been run off this forum because they felt uncomfortable or targeted because the moderation here is so lax that the default response for a long time has been "take it to DMs"

This isn't a criticism of Junpei or J-Ru's personality or character, they just don't seem like the type of people who want to be seen as stern or enforcers and I don't blame them. Having another moderator or IK that can squash things without feeling bad about it seems like a good balance to this subforum. I don't want to see more decent people pushed out because of lax moderation while problematic and antagonizing people are constantly just slapped on the wrist.

NienNunb
Feb 15, 2012

still a threat



Having an emotionless Judge Dredd to probate anyone seen committing horseplay does not seem like a good idea, imo

MotU
Mar 6, 2007

If you're gonna do it, do it with ~*~Axefaire~*~


Pillbug

It is easy to see why people could fall into that pattern, especially since Jerusalem posts alongside of people a ton so sometimes it is hard to notice things when you are part of the crowd. I do think Jerusalem can be tough but he seems to want to be fair as well as tough, which might have had him hesitate or take longer than what other people found acceptable. He does try to be super transparent about things though so if my assumption is wrong I am sure he will say so.

The one problem with having someone that is tough and fast on punishment though is that it is a huge double-edged sword as they may jump the gun on any infraction, or conversely, go back and punish people for posts long past the point where they are relevant just to show that they're punishing for everything. PSP doesn't really feel "lawless" as much as it feels like it doesn't have any lasting punishment. No one really changes their ways or learns from mistakes. The call for banning someone from a sub-forum completely can't really be made lightly, either. Like the few examples that we had have deserved it and yeah it probably would have been better to happen sooner, but a blade hanging over the head of the subforum is kinda a worrying thought if the person holding the power is too impulsive

MotU fucked around with this message at 02:07 on Jun 23, 2020

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?




I wasn't pitching Judge Dredd or anything, but someone who is going to send that DM and say "Hey, you have a sixer now and if you can't control yourself, it's going to keep escelating"

Heat of the moment arguments happen a lot, but there are people who drag grudges on for months/years and that's the kind of behavior that needs to change here and enforced harder.

Ad by Khad
Jul 25, 2007

SomethingAwful's Official Karen



This is a good subforum for a terrible hobby

Seth Rollins
Oct 24, 2001

i'll always take care of you


Muldoon

i think Seth Rollins should be made the new idiot king of this subforum

KungFu Grip
Jun 18, 2008



give us an Idiot King of the Ring

Reality Protester
Aug 10, 2016


she tried to warn us



Seth Rollins posted:

i think Seth Rollins should be made the new idiot king of this subforum

the real Seth Rollins

DJExile
Jun 27, 2007



KungFu Grip posted:

give us an Idiot King of the Ring

Jerusalem
May 20, 2004

Would you be my new best friends?


RealFoxy posted:

This isn't a criticism of Junpei or J-Ru's personality or character, they just don't seem like the type of people who want to be seen as stern or enforcers and I don't blame them. Having another moderator or IK that can squash things without feeling bad about it seems like a good balance to this subforum. I don't want to see more decent people pushed out because of lax moderation while problematic and antagonizing people are constantly just slapped on the wrist.

From a personal standpoint, I think bringing in an Idiot King whose only function is to be the hardass who comes down on people is not a good idea. That's basically a reversal of what the moderator/IK status quo should be to my mind, unless you have an IK whose job is to police ONE single problematic thread, particularly one which covers a specific topic which the more general moderators might not be fully up to speed with. An IK should ideally be there to cover those gaps where moderators aren't around, from memory most of the arguments that have spiraled out of control over the years were because they happened while I was in bed sleeping blissfully unaware. That was actually one of the reasons Junpei jumped onboard (taking on extra duty considering they're already modding another subforum entirely), because they were an active poster here and could be around at times I probably wasn't going to be.

RealFoxy posted:

I wasn't pitching Judge Dredd or anything, but someone who is going to send that DM and say "Hey, you have a sixer now and if you can't control yourself, it's going to keep escelating"

Heat of the moment arguments happen a lot, but there are people who drag grudges on for months/years and that's the kind of behavior that needs to change here and enforced harder.

Now to be fair, this is something I have done a fair number of times in the "punishment reason" for a probation: warnings about how the length of probations will ramp up etc" and goons who have taken exception to that and contacted me directly I have responded to. I respond to 95% of the PMs I get, I only really ignore ones when after a few replies back-and-forth it becomes clear they are fishing for whataboutisms they can try and rules-lawyer their way out of punishments with, or ones that are literally just,"gently caress you."

I suppose I could add a PM to each and every probation I give but it seems rather redundant to me, and also to be frank I'm not entirely sure why I should have to waste any extra time on somebody who has made a lovely post when the probation and the listed punishment reason should do that clearly enough. What I should be doing, and what I've been guilty of neglecting, is following up with users who have reported something that I either decided wasn't worthy of punishing, or that I attempted to resolve in some OTHER way besides hitting them with a probation. Letting them know why I chose the action I took (or didn't take, as the case may be).

Punch McLightning posted:

What steps will you take to prevent another Rovert the next time we get one?

Senerio posted:

Also another DoctorGonzo/Zeta Acosta, and Mel Mudkiper? How will you address bad faith posters who make the forums a less pleasant place for everyone?

On these cases I'm not sure if there is an answer that really can satisfy, though I'll try to find one. For Mel, DoctorGonzo and Rovert their rapsheets demonstrate pretty clearly in my opinion that they were NOT getting away with their posting but being continually punished till the point they got banned. I think there might be a bit of a disconnect here where people would like these types of posters to be INSTANTLY dealt with, but with volunteer moderators you're never going to get 24 hour coverage, even with an IK onboard (as discussed above), and unless I'm not remembering something, all of this stuff was usually dealt with within 8-12 hours.

In roverts case, he was frequently given length probations, banned several times AND put on many one-month probations. As was discussed in the QCS thread at the time, I spoke with an admin about what the options for dealing with him permanently were and they took the opportunity to test out a subforum ban feature as opposed to a permaban which they were trying to reserve for the truly detestable. It seems to have worked pretty well, beyond some people still giving him the attention he craves so badly every so often by bringing up what he's been up to on twitter.

For DoctorGonzo, they were banned (and left me some pretty vitriolic PMs) and re-regged as Zeta Acosta, but there isn't a rule about automatically banning a re-reg and it would have been overstepping my role to instantly ban them. Junpei and I were aware they were a re-reg, we were prepared to come down hard on any repeat of their prior activity, but they pretty much hosed off by themselves when it was made clear they weren't welcome to return and I think that was an appropriate resolution.

For Mel there's no excuse, I hosed up gigantically in how I handled that entire thing and have apologized for it in the past, and will continue to apologize for it for as long as anybody ever brings it up. That one was entirely on me.

I think the best response will be to make it clear in the new rules that repeated lovely behavior like this is going to be QUICKLY ramped up to heavier probations, far faster than I have done in the past. Plus always remember that while Junpei and I are specifically moderators for FIGHT ISLAND, the SAS mods also have power here and can be reached in a situation you think is an emergency that neither of us are dealing with (or that you feel we're not dealing with properly), and admins can always be contacted as well if necessary. We're not always going to get it right, but we're trying hard, and I like to think that both of us are more than willing to try and adjust and change how we have been moderating to better meet your expectations.

Chris James 2
Aug 9, 2012

plz remember that it was ~ME~ who told you that everything you like is actually really not good, because I knew all along.





I appreciate your responses and clarifications

Jerusalem posted:

An IK should ideally be there to cover those gaps where moderators aren't around, from memory most of the arguments that have spiraled out of control over the years were because they happened while I was in bed sleeping blissfully unaware. That was actually one of the reasons Junpei jumped onboard (taking on extra duty considering they're already modding another subforum entirely), because they were an active poster here and could be around at times I probably wasn't going to be.

This also kinda addressed the only other thing I was going to contribute to the discussion, having another mod/IK here would be nice specifically because of that situation/those gaps that need covered. Put me down for another advocate of IKOTR

KungFu Grip posted:

give us an Idiot King of the Ring

TTBF
Sep 14, 2005





Imagine J-Ru, a world where you don't ever have to enter the spoiler thread because someone who already posts there will take care of things for you.

JOHN CENA
Oct 20, 2006






This is a piss poor example of "ramp". Ramping shouldn't be throwing a 7 day probation followed up by a couple sixers or single days. Ramp should be fully escalating punishments until the poster either learns their lesson to behave differently, or leaves the forum outright. You can't treat repeat offending posters like this with a pat hand. This is a big part of what's running off people that want to post in this community, you NEED to be consistent, the both of you!

yea ok
Jul 27, 2006



Appreciate all the words. I don't have much faith but at least time will tell. Hopefully Junpei will be more active as a poster and moderator if she was brought in to take some slack away or whatever. 10 posts in a month and approximately 0 reports handled (or perhaps many ignored) isn't exactly reassuring, but I know you both Hear Us and Will Do Better.

NienNunb
Feb 15, 2012

still a threat



I like the forums, I wish we were all friends again

Hopkins FBI
Jan 4, 2015

MY SACRED POSTING VOW IS NOTHING, FOR WHILE I STAKED MY HONOR UPON MY COMMITMENT TO NEVER SUPPORT JOSEPH R. B. JUNIOR I HAVE SCANDALOUSLY ABANDONED MY PRINCIPLES


yea ok posted:

10 posts in a month and approximately 0 reports handled (or perhaps many ignored) isn't exactly reassuring, but I know you both Hear Us and Will Do Better.

RealFoxy
May 11, 2011

King of the Pirates?




NienNunb posted:

I like the forums, I wish we were all friends again
The tWo era was harsh, but fair. I miss the vibe on the forums from back then but more than that I appreciate that J-Ru and Junpei both privately and publicly are willing to address issues maturely. I earned my probation sheet, but I didn't start actually learning how much of a poo poo I was until people like J-Ru were talking to me about how I should behave myself

RealFoxy fucked around with this message at 05:48 on Jun 23, 2020

Prokhor Zakharov
Dec 31, 2008
Good luck with your depression!


Ramping should go 6er -> 24hr -> 3 days -> week -> ban -> ban + 30

Also all ban messages should contain a gif of Aubrey ejecting Ortiz

Eat My Fuc
May 29, 2007

Qu'ils mangent de la baise!


JOHN CENA posted:





This is a piss poor example of "ramp". Ramping shouldn't be throwing a 7 day probation followed up by a couple sixers or single days. Ramp should be fully escalating punishments until the poster either learns their lesson to behave differently, or leaves the forum outright. You can't treat repeat offending posters like this with a pat hand. This is a big part of what's running off people that want to post in this community, you NEED to be consistent, the both of you!

Maybe you should PM me and let me know what your issue with me personally is. I reached out to J-Ru via PM because I felt I was being unfairly labeled a troll and was helped to see ways I could be better and have been attempting to apply them. If you have a personal issue with me why not reach out

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Seams
Feb 3, 2005


Prokhor Zakharov posted:

Also all ban messages should contain a gif of Aubrey ejecting Ortiz

second

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