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Alice was such a hack, lazy character, but Rachel Skarsten really elevated what she was given. If they had not done the "you see she loves Alice in Wonderland, so that means she's crazy!" and went with her being a legacy character, like a new Riddler or even yet, Joker's Daughter. But nope, its bad writing 101, slap some white rabbit quotes and call it depth. The worst part of the whole show was Kane family drama, and the fact it kept doing even after Kate was gone was loving bullshit and drove me away. Also their solution for everything seemed to be "add more lesbians", I obviously can't speak for that community but it felt very pandering, that it was a cynical ploy to get gay women to watch the show rather than trying to actually be progressive. And that Kane Family Drama ruined Ryan trying to take over, season 2 should have been a full reboot, completely dump all the Kane stuff, Sophie is just a street doctor, no more Crows or anyone, and give Ryan her own story.
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May 2, 2022 03:13
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twistedmentat posted:Alice was such a hack, lazy character, but Rachel Skarsten really elevated what she was given. If they had not done the "you see she loves Alice in Wonderland, so that means she's crazy!" and went with her being a legacy character, like a new Riddler or even yet, Joker's Daughter. But nope, its bad writing 101, slap some white rabbit quotes and call it depth. There was a zero percent chance they were going to do a Batwoman show and not include Alice, she's too foundational a character to Kate.
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May 2, 2022 03:50
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howe_sam posted:There was a zero percent chance they were going to do a Batwoman show and not include Alice, she's too foundational a character to Kate. Otoh, they didn't do the Cult of Crime which is foundational to Alice and went with an original plot instead
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May 2, 2022 11:25
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The Kane family tragedy being a car accident instead of a terrorist attack was a good change all things considered. Beth then falling into the hands of Mouse and his dad and being driven insane by abuse was, well, a choice, but it certainly heightened her resentment of her family because she was so close and yet they were never able to find her. I'd also be really curious to know what their original plan for Alice was, because they way her story was going in the first season it felt like she was going to be a one and done villain: then Skarsten popped in the role, Covid torched the original end of the first season, and Rose quit so there went all their plans and they had to reconfigure what they were doing with the character.
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May 2, 2022 15:07
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howe_sam posted:There was a zero percent chance they were going to do a Batwoman show and not include Alice, she's too foundational a character to Kate. I had no idea. Based on my memory of DC comics at the time, the character must have even been worse in the comics.
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May 2, 2022 17:31
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Alice in comics is (mostly; obviously it depends on the specific writer) a more overtly delusional, 'classic' psychopath, and the difference between 'Alice' and 'Beth' is a distinct Jekyll-and-Hyde total personality split. She's far more dangerous but also less competent than on TV. Alice on TV was a watered-down Joker who occasionally quoted Lewis Carroll for ~*the aesthetic*~ and was totally aware that she's Beth the whole time. Alice in comics is more whacked-out than Joker, only talks in Wonderland quotes—I don't believe her fixation with Alice In Wonderland is ever explained—and, as far as I remember, only knows she's Beth after she's killed and revived. Generally I preferred TV season 1 Alice to any comic rendition I've read, but they shouldn't have had her and Kate team up towards the end of the season, and went way too far trying to turn her around in season 2. She absolutely was a character who needed to show up and be the Big Bad for the first season, but she should have had one plan, been beaten, and 'apparently' died, like in the comics. (I think in her original comic appearance she's only in five issues?) It's both a blessing and a curse that Rachel Skarsten was the best actor on the show, so they 'had' to keep her around and tied her in to Ryan's origins as well. The multiverse crossover was a missed opportunity to kill off Alice and keep Beth for good.
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May 2, 2022 19:05
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What they should have done is move the alternate world Beth to the end of the season and then in the finale have Alice sacrifice herself for whatever reason and then going forward there's just normal Beth. Because as is they had a real tough time trying to justify why anyone would ever work with Alice.
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May 2, 2022 19:29
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The thing that throws a wrench into all of this speculation is the fact that they didn't get to finish the first season. Maybe the original plan was for Alice to sacrifice herself to save Kate from Hush or something. That said, I do like the idea of Alice taking a bullet to save Beth.
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May 2, 2022 19:37
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pressedbunny posted:Alice in comics is (mostly; obviously it depends on the specific writer) a more overtly delusional, 'classic' psychopath, and the difference between 'Alice' and 'Beth' is a distinct Jekyll-and-Hyde total personality split. She's far more dangerous but also less competent than on TV. Alice on TV was a watered-down Joker who occasionally quoted Lewis Carroll for ~*the aesthetic*~ and was totally aware that she's Beth the whole time. Alice in comics is more whacked-out than Joker, only talks in Wonderland quotes—I don't believe her fixation with Alice In Wonderland is ever explained—and, as far as I remember, only knows she's Beth after she's killed and revived. Comic book Alice would've looked better long term for whatever they were planning than TV Alice, imo, but yeah, she was the only character who would've felt appropriate for a S1 Big Bad for Batwoman. Alice's first appearance is the first arc in the first Batwoman ongoing. In a later ongoing, she shows up now living with Kate as she's gotten mentally stable enough to keep Alice under wraps (with occasional attacks when triggered) and at one point backslides are part of another arc. I forget if it's also that arc where she figures out how to "accept" her Alice persona after trying to fake it to infiltrate some organization.
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May 2, 2022 22:33
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Hearing someone talk in only Lewis Carrel quotes would be incredibly frustrating and honestly to me, anytime Alice In Wonderland gets dragged out to show how crazy a character is, its just such hack and wrote thing to do. Also the Mad Hatter is literally the worst Batman Villain. Ooh so wacky and obsessed with a woman named Alice, aren't I crazy! Also hats.
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May 4, 2022 00:40
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twistedmentat posted:Hearing someone talk in only Lewis Carrel quotes would be incredibly frustrating and honestly to me, anytime Alice In Wonderland gets dragged out to show how crazy a character is, its just such hack and wrote thing to do. Also the Mad Hatter is literally the worst Batman Villain. Ooh so wacky and obsessed with a woman named Alice, aren't I crazy! Also hats. finally a post of reason
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May 4, 2022 02:23
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