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howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



Why do I get the feeling that the Black Lightning writer's room didn't plan on the multiverse collapsing when they broke the season? Like does that ASA football have Dark Matter metas on file?

Having said that Gravedigger's backstory is perfect for the show.

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CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





I'm surprised Odell kept up his end of the bargain and didn't try to renege on it since they did let Tobias escape.

Aw jeez, I hope they aren't going to put Lady Eve and LaLa on the backburner again.

0 days since we last kept secrets from each other. I wonder how long it will last.

Xelkelvos posted:

Wayne Brady: The First recorded metahuman

His flashback was good. I'd watch a show about Wayne Brady killing nazis.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

That was fun but ooh there was at least one moment in the Nazi-killin' sequence where you could totally see Gravedigger not even connecting his fake knife with the dude he was supposed to be stabbing and it took me out so bad.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I'm surprised Odell kept up his end of the bargain and didn't try to renege on it since they did let Tobias escape.a

There's plenty of time for him to backstab everyone!

howe_sam posted:

Why do I get the feeling that the Black Lightning writer's room didn't plan on the multiverse collapsing when they broke the season? Like does that ASA football have Dark Matter metas on file?

Having said that Gravedigger's backstory is perfect for the show.

My memory's a little fuzzy but I don't think the Flash's metahumans actually work off a dormant gene. Or at least they could always pass it off as not the same gene. Like, the X-gene vs the Inhuman gene. Actually now that I think about it this kind of makes the CWverse (or at least this corner of it) kind of like the Ultimate Marvel universe where basically every other metahuman is a result of the government trying to replicate the Super-Soldier Serum.


edit: I get that life as a superhero is wild but everyone was way too quick to just buy Jeff's whole story about watching the world be destroyed and created anew. Like, at least have Lynn and Anissa doubt him until Jen backs him up since she also remembers Earths dying.

TwoPair fucked around with this message at 04:26 on Feb 25, 2020

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


TwoPair posted:

That was fun but ooh there was at least one moment in the Nazi-killin' sequence where you could totally see Gravedigger not even connecting his fake knife with the dude he was supposed to be stabbing and it took me out so bad.

Just after that when he carefully stuck it under a guy's arm before kicking him into a tree, that felt downright charming.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


TwoPair posted:

That was fun but ooh there was at least one moment in the Nazi-killin' sequence where you could totally see Gravedigger not even connecting his fake knife with the dude he was supposed to be stabbing and it took me out so bad.


There's plenty of time for him to backstab everyone!


My memory's a little fuzzy but I don't think the Flash's metahumans actually work off a dormant gene. Or at least they could always pass it off as not the same gene. Like, the X-gene vs the Inhuman gene. Actually now that I think about it this kind of makes the CWverse (or at least this corner of it) kind of like the Ultimate Marvel universe where basically every other metahuman is a result of the government trying to replicate the Super-Soldier Serum.


edit: I get that life as a superhero is wild but everyone was way too quick to just buy Jeff's whole story about watching the world be destroyed and created anew. Like, at least have Lynn and Anissa doubt him until Jen backs him up since she also remembers Earths dying.

Almost all of the metas on Flash are because of being bombarded by dark matter from the particle accelerator. One of the few exceptions on the show is Frost. There was one meta who showed up that was implied to have gotten their powers outside of the particle accelerator, but this was before Black Lightning even began.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Xelkelvos posted:

Almost all of the metas on Flash are because of being bombarded by dark matter from the particle accelerator. One of the few exceptions on the show is Frost. There was one meta who showed up that was implied to have gotten their powers outside of the particle accelerator, but this was before Black Lightning even began.

Also ARGUS, the ASA, and the DEO all exist on the same world now, and the ASA has consistently shown itself to be the most malevolent of the three organizations, so it probably at some point in Earth-Prime's past obtained both the DEO and ARGUS's catalogs of metas with or without either one's consent. ...Though knowing Lex Luthor, he probably handed it over to them for a big fat paycheck because he's Lex loving Luthor.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


howe_sam posted:

Why do I get the feeling that the Black Lightning writer's room didn't plan on the multiverse collapsing when they broke the season?
It's painfully obvious that they had no plan for it and are now just ignoring the other shows as hard as they can. The Markovia stuff was right on the borderline as far as believability went before the crossover, now it's just dumb.

And was it just me, or did the stuff with Lala and Eve feel like it belonged in a different show? They've been a bit out of place in previous episodes as well, but here I just kept thinking "this scene belongs in Gotham" whenever either of them was on-screen - and also when Gambi was torturing Eve's lieutenant.

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."


Tiggum posted:

And was it just me, or did the stuff with Lala and Eve feel like it belonged in a different show? They've been a bit out of place in previous episodes as well, but here I just kept thinking "this scene belongs in Gotham" whenever either of them was on-screen - and also when Gambi was torturing Eve's lieutenant.

I didn't mind it. Lady Eve and Lala are entertaining minibosses and watching them interact is fun and still brings us back down to the street threats that rule Freeland.

This show just does charismatic villains so well.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


ApeHawk posted:

I didn't mind it. Lady Eve and Lala are entertaining minibosses and watching them interact is fun and still brings us back down to the street threats that rule Freeland.

This show just does charismatic villains so well.

They're lightly supernatural gangland villains that are part of the core internal threats to Freeland. They're not there twiddling their thumbs as the ASA and the Markovians make their moves, and they're not off screen doing whatever it is they're doing. They're front and center making their plays because even if the ASA and the Markovians leave and even if there were no new metas, they'd still be a threat to the peace and well being of the people of Freeland just as Tobias Whale was.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


ApeHawk posted:

I didn't mind it.

I like them. I just felt like I was seeing some random scenes from a different (better) show.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Odell and Lady Eve are so loving good.

Oh poo poo the Gravedigger connection.

Can't wait for the finale next week.

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Odell and Lady Eve are so loving good.

Oh poo poo the Gravedigger connection.

Can't wait for the finale next week.

There was a new one this week? All the other shows having a break threw me off. I'll have to catch it online.

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.



Ugh, I hate when shows do that thing where they use clips from old episodes and pretend like it's security footage. Like, there was a camera in the office that caught Grace sneaking in and shapeshifting?

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."


A camera can't alarm anyone, only a guard can do that.

Maybe they were on a break or something, you don't know.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Odell and Lady Eve are so loving good.

Oh poo poo the Gravedigger connection.

Can't wait for the finale next week.

I'm extremely curious where they'll go from here after this season. Presumably it'll partially be trying to return the city to normalcy after the occupation and the attack by the Markovians and however the fight with Gravedigger turns out. part of next season's plot is probably Whale doing whatever it is he's doing after escaping

ShakeZula
Jun 17, 2003

Nobody move and nobody gets hurt.



ApeHawk posted:

A camera can't alarm anyone, only a guard can do that.

Maybe they were on a break or something, you don't know.

I meant more that that would be odd camera placement.

It's just a pet peeve of mine, but it stood out to me especially here because I remember back in the pilot or second episode they had someone reviewing security footage of BL zapping those two cops, and as I recall they shot it like actual security footage and I praised them for it at the time.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Xelkelvos posted:

I'm extremely curious where they'll go from here after this season. Presumably it'll partially be trying to return the city to normalcy after the occupation and the attack by the Markovians and however the fight with Gravedigger turns out. part of next season's plot is probably Whale doing whatever it is he's doing after escaping

I hope they spend some time dealing with the low level street stuff like Lady Eve / Lala / Tobias. I think it would be a mistake to try and ramp up the stakes even higher next season. Someone is trying to super duper destroy Freeland

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."


They're kinda throwing a big thing out for their third season finale. "This guy is the OG Meta, and he can have any power he wants, and HE'S YOUR GREAT-UNCLE!!!!"

They might just try to either repel him or get him to reconsider the seige of Freeland, to keep him on the Rogue's Gallery until later. I hope they do so, since Wayne Brady is great as Gravedigger.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




ApeHawk posted:

They're kinda throwing a big thing out for their third season finale. "This guy is the OG Meta, and he can have any power he wants, and HE'S YOUR GREAT-UNCLE!!!!"

They might just try to either repel him or get him to reconsider the seige of Freeland, to keep him on the Rogue's Gallery until later. I hope they do so, since Wayne Brady is great as Gravedigger.

I hope he sticks around too. That fight between him and Khalil was one of the best things the show's done in a long while, and the this show has had a long string of really get moments. Thankfully, since they've crossed the threshold of "is this show going to get a second season?" they've become more gunshy about killing off their stable of villains. Joey Toledo, Syonide, and Victoria all got toasted in Season 1 in shockingly rapid succession, same with Lady Eve and Lala but they're both back now.

What I'm saying is they really need to bring Joey and Syonide back. They were great.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Given Gravedigger's backstory and motives, how does it make any sense at all for him to have been working for the Markovians?

Also, he became a meta because of secret government experiments, right? So how is his being Jefferson's great-uncle relevant at all? Your great-uncle is your parent's uncle; you're not descended from them, so whatever the government did to him couldn't be passed down to the Pierces.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


Tiggum posted:

Given Gravedigger's backstory and motives, how does it make any sense at all for him to have been working for the Markovians?

Also, he became a meta because of secret government experiments, right? So how is his being Jefferson's great-uncle relevant at all? Your great-uncle is your parent's uncle; you're not descended from them, so whatever the government did to him couldn't be passed down to the Pierces.

Markovians gave him a place and the resources to exact his revenge against the US. I thought that was explained in a previous ep.

Gravedigger had a dormant metagene which the experiments activated. It also implies that his entire extended family, not just the direct line, has the potential.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Season finale night tonight.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



I love Tobias's hat.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





That was a good finale and I wonder if they thought they were going to get cancelled as it did wrap up basically every major plot.

Big bodycount tonight. Wow that was an unexpected end for Jameela Olsen and Dr. Jace. I'd say the same for Henderson but I saw the earlier spoiler about how his actor said he wasn't coming back for s4. lol Commander "I'm not a meta" Williams.

I'm glad it looks like next season will be LaLa and Tobias again(and maybe Lady Eve), unless they introduce some new threat.

howe_sam posted:

I love Tobias's hat.

howe_sam
Mar 7, 2013

Creepy little garbage eaters



Today in television writers do not know how the real world works: judges run a congressional inquiry. Still, it was a nice touch having Black Lightning's creators have cameos.

I'm guessing next season is going to be an X-Men riff with Jefferson running the meta school, while Tobias and Lala fight each other for control of Freeland's underworld. Lyn deals with her addiction, Grace wakes up from her coma, and Wayne Brady shows up at an inopportune moment.

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

That was a good finale and I wonder if they thought they were going to get cancelled as it did wrap up basically every major plot.

Big bodycount tonight. Wow that was an unexpected end for Jameela Olsen and Dr. Jace. I'd say the same for Henderson but I saw the earlier spoiler about how his actor said he wasn't coming back for s4. lol Commander "I'm not a meta" Williams.

I'm glad it looks like next season will be LaLa and Tobias again(and maybe Lady Eve), unless they introduce some new threat.




Well this is like the third time theyíve done this now, and really they should keep writing every season finale like itís a series finale until they actually get cancelled because every time it produces some really powerful material and some decent closure on some plot lines.

Also lol at them ganking Dr. Jace. I guess Bendanís plotline is kind of going nowhere then. Henderson dying was really rough to watch, but he said he wasnít coming back so I kind of saw it coming. Hope heíd just like get a transfer to another city or something, drat.

Iím happy and terrified that Gravedigger survived. More Wayne Brady being pants shittingly terrifying, please.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


nine-gear crow posted:

Well this is like the third time theyíve done this now, and really they should keep writing every season finale like itís a series finale until they actually get cancelled because every time it produces some really powerful material and some decent closure on some plot lines.

Also lol at them ganking Dr. Jace. I guess Bendanís plotline is kind of going nowhere then. Henderson dying was really rough to watch, but he said he wasnít coming back so I kind of saw it coming. Hope heíd just like get a transfer to another city or something, drat.

Iím happy and terrified that Gravedigger survived. More Wayne Brady being pants shittingly terrifying, please.

This definitely felt like End of Series stuff and just like S1's finale, it wsa really loving good.

I guess Freeland is in the same state as Gotham or it's the biggest major city. A little weird as original BL was from a borough of Metropolis so idk.

Whale is getting more unhinged, I think what with him talking to a guy he killed via plastic bag suffocation and having his mother serve him a meal. Brendan may still have a plot line with him trying to figure out who his father is. He just won't have Jace as a lead. He's definitely meant to be a black Geo-Force so he might be related to the deposed royal family or something (Markovia reads like a former Soviet Republic rather than the monarchy it is in the comics). Grace being in a coma seems like a thread made for exploring her backstory in S4 as Anissa tries to break her out of it. I don't expect Jeff to suddenly become Professor X to a group of young metas though but there's probably gonna be an integration plot as the metas become formally introduced into society and the tension from it. Similarly, it's possible that the next Flash season will have some metas from Freeland appear or Star Labs to be called on to handle one since Central City is a meta epicenter of its own. Lady Eve and The Shadow Board might also come up.

Gravedigger is definitely another good villain that they added and it's definitely gonna become a problem if they keep having too many good villains since the urge is to keep them around. If Wayne Brady just wants to live in Vancouver instead, he'd probably fit in in most of the other shows except Legends as the Black Captain America+Mind controller that he is.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK
Sep 11, 2001





Xelkelvos posted:

Gravedigger is definitely another good villain that they added and it's definitely gonna become a problem if they keep having too many good villains since the urge is to keep them around. If Wayne Brady just wants to live in Vancouver instead, he'd probably fit in in most of the other shows except Legends as the Black Captain America+Mind controller that he is.

Have Wayne Brady show up on The Flash to stop the worst villain and meta human murderer: Barry Allen.

Or just keep him on the backburner for a future plotline. I have no faith in the Vancouver shows and their writers.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK fucked around with this message at 13:55 on Mar 10, 2020

nine-gear crow
Aug 10, 2013

low vis




Xelkelvos posted:

This definitely felt like End of Series stuff and just like S1's finale, it wsa really loving good.

I guess Freeland is in the same state as Gotham or it's the biggest major city. A little weird as original BL was from a borough of Metropolis so idk.

The Earth Prime map shown on Flash has Freeland in Georgia basically where Atlanta is and Gotham in Illinois where Chicago is. So I don't think they're in the same state, no. I think it was just the BL producers showing that they can play nice with the Earth Prime setting now that they're officially a part of the Cool Kids Club. Still would have been fun to see maybe a character from Batwoman in the background, like Kate showing up to the hearing in her civvies to just give Jefferson a little nod on the way out of the courtroom.

shades of eternity
Nov 9, 2013

Where kitties raise dragons in the world's largest mall.

It just hit me like a ton of bricks.

Gambi is essentially a homage to Garek from Deep Space Nine.

They didn't even both changing the first letter of the name.

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004


I really liked how gravedigger consistently walked away from defeated enemies without killing them

ApeHawk
Jun 6, 2010

All the NPCs will look up and shout, "Do this quest!"
and I'll whisper, "Sure, why not."


pile of brown posted:

I really liked how gravedigger consistently walked away from defeated enemies without killing them

It makes sense that he doesn't wanna kill people unless he feels like he absolutely has to, because he feels that every person he kills deserves a proper burial and he's already done way too many of those from WWII.

That was a great season finale. Hell, I'll even let Gravedigger surviving the self-destruct go because it was just that good and I want him to stay. Can't wait for season 4. Some suggestions for the title of the next thread would be appreciated; I'm thinking of "Superman is REAL!" but that can always change - we have months to decide.

Xelkelvos
Dec 19, 2012


ApeHawk posted:

It makes sense that he doesn't wanna kill people unless he feels like he absolutely has to, because he feels that every person he kills deserves a proper burial and he's already done way too many of those from WWII.

That was a great season finale. Hell, I'll even let Gravedigger surviving the self-destruct go because it was just that good and I want him to stay. Can't wait for season 4. Some suggestions for the title of the next thread would be appreciated; I'm thinking of "Superman is REAL!" but that can always change - we have months to decide.

Captain America is Black and Mad as Hell

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


ApeHawk posted:

It makes sense that he doesn't wanna kill people unless he feels like he absolutely has to, because he feels that every person he kills deserves a proper burial and he's already done way too many of those from WWII.

That thing about burying every person he kills is so dumb. He knows that in most situations those bodies will be recovered and buried in accordance with their own or their family's wishes, right? Burying them haphazardly wherever they were when you killed them is, like, the opposite of respectful.

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004


I really don't think he lets people live because he doesn't want to have to bury them, especially since that's a thing he made up on his own and wants to do. He sees himself as liberating the metas, in his mind he's a good guy and that's why he doesn't slaughter defeated enemies and that's far more compelling than "too lazy to dig a hole "

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



I wasnít spoiled so Hendersonís death scene hit me like a ton of bricks. I thought he was going to be in it for the long haul.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 00:55 on Apr 5, 2020

pile of brown
Dec 31, 2004


Maybe spoiler text that

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004



I mean, the episode aired over two weeks ago and itís been mentioned several times on this page alone, but if you think itíll help, sure.

its still crazy to me that they bring back Lady Eve and Lala then close the book on Henderson. And donít get me wrong, I love Lady Eve and Lala, but Hendersonís been there from the beginning too and wasnít just Jeffersonís version of Commissioner Gordon, but his life long friend and confidant. He brought a ton to the show.

ruddiger fucked around with this message at 01:01 on Apr 5, 2020

GLOSS
Apr 10, 2005

PEARL GROWLS "TAKE OFF THAT SHIRT, STEVEN." I COMPLY, REVEALING THE FULL LENGTH SHIRT TATTOO. PEARL RETREATS INTO HER GEM, DEFEATED.


I just finished catching up on the entire season over the past few days, and man that scene the episode after they get the message out of Freeland about the occupation, and the media blows it off as "anti-vaxxers over reacting to an outbreak that isn't really that serious" hit waaaaaaaayyyyyyy closer to home than it probably did when it aired a few months ago. I was waiting for them to drop a "It's just a flu-like SARS" in there...

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Fair Bear Maiden
Jun 17, 2013


The choice to talk about "liberal anti-vaxxers" was weird, when in the US that subjects seems to be dominated by right-wingers.

Anyway, this season was good, much better than season 2 given it had an actual focus, but man, it also felt like they had to do some hasty rewrites and had some budgetary problems along the way.

A lot of scenes I would have liked to see on screen were just given as post-facto summaries in a way that felt extremely disappointing, almost as if the scripts were written with those scenes in mind but then they realized "gently caress, we can't show that, it's too expensive" and *very* clumsily wrote around it. But even then, it's really weird that we see, for example, Jennifer blowing up a data farm from the Markovians but never see Black Lightning do the same with the ASA headquarters in Freeland.

The choreography was also extremely sloppy at points. In several scenes it was very clear that punches or knives were not connecting at all and almost no attempt was made to hide it. It wasn't a consistent problem, but it was a recurring one and felt really disappointing, especially given the show's had good fights in the past.

On top of that, the fallout of a lot of situations just seemingly didn't play out or was quickly brushed aside, and there were probably a few too many characters to juggle, though overall they did an admirable job with keeping the story focused in its sprawl, unlike season 2.

Also, uh, I have to admit, I'm very surprised there was no moment where TC discovered Gambi's past and had some angst about it especially since Gambi didn't do a particularly good job hiding his past this season, but I guess that's something they might be plotting for season 4.

Finally, as someone who didn't watch the crossover stuff (because I don't care about any of the other DC shows): lol, that was real clumsy stuff. "SUPERMAN IS REAL!" Also Gotham is real now, I guess.

P.S. : I usually don't do script-doctoring style criticism, as it's not like I could do better in a real life scenario, but I really feel like Grave Digger should have been introduced WAAAAAY EARLIER than he was.

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