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Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Bruceski posted:

I'm trying to remember, do we know there actually are any drat Markovians?

The only way this plot isn't incredibly dumb is if the Markovian threat is made up by t he US government. Except it's still pretty dumb that all the characters are just uncritically believing it. Markovia is some tiny nation and the powers people in this show have are dangerous on a personal level but don't really have any large-scale or military applications. It's not like China getting control of Superman.

Seriously, what is the Markovian plan?
  1. Kidnap and brainwash metahumans.
  2. ???
  3. Profit?

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Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

In a way, they're treating an individual meta like a small nuclear weapon. On its own, it can potentially destroy a city or kill oodles of people.
Most of them can't do anything even close to that. I can't think of any in this show that are more dangerous (because of their powers) than an ordinary person with a gun or bomb.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


nine-gear crow posted:

Welp. Looks like the Markovians are real.
And they're doing the exact same high-tech mind-control "for the greater good" plot as Supergirl.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I am so glad that not only is Lala back, he has his ghost murder victims crew with him.
He's the only good thing about this season so far.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

Nah, ASA is doing mind control stuff purely for making loyal and obedient super soldiers. Lena wants hyper-nonviolence implemented but everyone can still do as they want.

Except the first thing Lena did was use it to mind control Eve into being perfectly loyal and obedient to her.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

Nah, they're real. Any time they talk about Markovia, assume they mean a country like Russia since, it's meant to be an Eastern European dictatorship of sorts.
It's explicitly a small country though, which makes their apparent ability to operate with impunity within America utterly absurd. How do they have the resources or clout to get away with anything?

Absolutely nothing in this season is working for me so far. What is Odell even trying to do? How is the rest of the country reacting to what's going on here? We know people and information are getting out. Why is Odell going out of his way to manipulate the Pierces? Why are they so essential to him?

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Why are the people that Anissa smuggled out of the city just hanging around there instead of getting away and letting people outside know what's happening?

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

That's probably a story hole that needs to be filled. It's an easy one to explain though like the ASA being a gov't org would have eyes and ears looking for any of the escapees if they showed up, especially with any friends and family outside of Freeland. Since they can affect a media blackout of Freeland and seem to not draw any outside attention, presumably, they're cutting off any outside notice that'd come up.

But they can't find them on that one farm a little way out of town? Wouldn't they actually be harder to find if they split up? And if a bunch of them all went to different media outlets, including using the internet to contact foreign media (or actually crossing into Canada or Mexico) then either the entire US is a police state or people are going to know about this one town that's under the control of some shadowy government agency.

As soon as they introduced the fact that a bunch of people got out it became impossible to believe that the rest of the country doesn't know about this. And given that the rest of the country must know about it, it's a massive question hanging over everything: what do people outside Freeland think about this? How is it being reported? How are politicians attempting to justify it? By not addressing these questions they're just drawing more attention to the things that make no sense.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


howe_sam posted:

Hey, they finally addressed the world outside Freeland.
But in a way that made it really seem like they literally hadn't thought of it until now. What about all those people who already got out?

howe_sam posted:

Good job not getting completely thrown when you recognized Khalil Anissa
On the other hand - he was wearing sunglasses. That is not a disguise.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


howe_sam posted:

Earth-2? But that was wiped out weeks ago
I was assuming those were not the standard designations, because I feel like there being all that stuff with metas and Markovians in Freeland would not have gone unnoticed by the protagonists of Earth 1.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


This season's whole plot makes even less than ever now that they live on a world full of metahumans, magical ninjas, time travellers and aliens. They seem to be pretending like merging the worlds changes nothing.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


nine-gear crow posted:

Also the ASA digital iron curtain is still up around Freeland so the rest of Earth Prime doesn't even know anything is happening there outside of a weird SARS outbreak that doesn't seem to be ending.

Except that a bunch of people have gotten out and also Black Lightning has just been hanging out with award-winning investigative journalist Kara Danvers. It was already stretching credibility that the situation was still being kept secret, now it's absurd.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

LaLa and Lady Eve are back
Just made me wish all the ASA/Markovia stuff wasn't happening and they were the main bad guys. This show could actually be good.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Hey Jeff, you know who could probably help you out here instead of the ASA? Supergirl. But this show is still pretty much ignoring the fact that it now takes place in the same universe as the other DC CW shows, and anyway it's not time for a crossover, so I guess he's just got to conveniently forget about those other super heroes he met recently.


Dr Jace's vlog was great though.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

That's literally Comic Books 101. The same reason Superman doesn't solve all of Batman's problems or Barry never solves Oliver's. How do you not continuously grasp that and accept that conceit of the setting despite continuing to watch this genre?
I'd just appreciate it if they'd at least come up with an excuse, because otherwise it just makes the characters look extremely dumb.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

Again, what part of "conceit of the setting" do you not understand?

I guess all of it, because I have no idea what point you're trying to make.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Xelkelvos posted:

One of the major setting conceits of comic books is that they do not, in the stories, just call up someone stronger to obviate their problem even though that'd be the realistic thing to do unless the book is an intentional crossover.
I know it is. That doesn't mean it's not dumb. Being a "conceit of the setting" doesn't mean you don't have to acknowledge or explain it. People having super powers is a conceit of the setting, but they take the time to explain that because if random people in an otherwise realistic setting just had super powers for no reason then it would be jarring and irritating to the audience - like this is!

My issue isn't that they don't have Barry and Kara solve everyone else's problems, it's that they deliberately create a situation where it would make sense for that to happen but then don't do anything to justify it not happening. It doesn't have to be much - "speed force" doesn't really mean anything, but in the context of the show it explains why Barry can go fast and no one else can - but it would be extremely helpful to have some kind of token explanation for why Jefferson would decide to work with the ASA rather than calling on much more trustworthy allies.

The show's writers shouldn't be raising questions they don't want to answer.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

(assuming Gravedigger isn't dead).
He seemed to be too well-developed to be a one-episode throwaway character.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


howe_sam posted:

Why do I get the feeling that the Black Lightning writer's room didn't plan on the multiverse collapsing when they broke the season?
It's painfully obvious that they had no plan for it and are now just ignoring the other shows as hard as they can. The Markovia stuff was right on the borderline as far as believability went before the crossover, now it's just dumb.

And was it just me, or did the stuff with Lala and Eve feel like it belonged in a different show? They've been a bit out of place in previous episodes as well, but here I just kept thinking "this scene belongs in Gotham" whenever either of them was on-screen - and also when Gambi was torturing Eve's lieutenant.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


ApeHawk posted:

I didn't mind it.

I like them. I just felt like I was seeing some random scenes from a different (better) show.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Given Gravedigger's backstory and motives, how does it make any sense at all for him to have been working for the Markovians?

Also, he became a meta because of secret government experiments, right? So how is his being Jefferson's great-uncle relevant at all? Your great-uncle is your parent's uncle; you're not descended from them, so whatever the government did to him couldn't be passed down to the Pierces.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


ApeHawk posted:

It makes sense that he doesn't wanna kill people unless he feels like he absolutely has to, because he feels that every person he kills deserves a proper burial and he's already done way too many of those from WWII.

That thing about burying every person he kills is so dumb. He knows that in most situations those bodies will be recovered and buried in accordance with their own or their family's wishes, right? Burying them haphazardly wherever they were when you killed them is, like, the opposite of respectful.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Just got around to watching this and... I guess they're just completely ignoring the implications of the crossover, ie. that all the Arrowverse shows now take place on the same world and retroactively always have? I'm really glad they seem to be completely moving on from the Markovia stuff though. It was dumb and I hope they never mention it again.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


TwoPair posted:

How do you mean? If you're talking about how no superheroes helped with the Markovian stuff that's just some "you have to roll with it" poo poo like when Diaz sealed off Star City and no one tried to help on Arrow.

Also the world should now be full of aliens (thanks to Supergirl) and there should be other types of metahumans (thanks to The Flash), as well as various wizards, super-scientists, mystical ninjas, etc., all of which should dramatically change the situation in Freeland because it was originally the one place where there were any kind of super powers. The Central City cops have devices for disabling metas powers. Can the Freeland police not get those? Why make a big deal about registering the Freeland metas when there are all kinds of super powered people all over the planet? Merging the worlds just changes a lot of the fundamental assumptions behind the plot.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

I am glad that Lynn is getting help for her addiction. I wonder if Tobias' last line at their dinner was a hint that the therapist is on his payroll or reporting to him. Or maybe it's just a coincidence
That therapist is giving extremely "secretly evil" vibes. And it's not clear if she knows about their super powers or not.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Painkiller show looks bad.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Is it just me or has this show gotten really hard to follow?

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


Have we seen this evil council of bad guys Tobias wants to join before? Seems a bit late to be introducing a new cabal of villains.

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


If Tobias was able to locate the members of the evil cabal of bad guys and send an assassin to that location, what does it matter that he's got one who can turn invisible? Are they all immune to bullets?

Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Probably to make the other members live in fear that an invisible assassin could be lurking and waiting to strike. They basically poo poo themselves when Tobias lifted his hand to signal another possible murder.

Sure, but a normal guy with a rifle is also an invisible assassin, for all intents and purposes. This show really wants metas to be an absolute game-changer on every level, and they just aren't.

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Tiggum
Oct 23, 2007


CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

That was a satisfying finale.
Absolutely disagree. Just anticlimax after anticlimax. Every plot suddenly wrapped up all at once. No weight to any of it.
  • JJ being evil was dumb. Why couldn't they both have stayed alive? Was there any actual reason?
  • Breaking into the super-secure location where the emitter is? Super easy, barely an inconvenience.
  • The cop who's had it out for them and now has super powers? Jen just zaps her. Job done.
  • Anissa and Grace's disagreements about being super heroes? Suddenly Grace is 100% on board.
  • Tobias? I guess he wasn't as unkillable as he'd seemed right up to now. And no mention of how it's going to be super obvious that a meta killed the mayor.
  • Lala? No resolution, he's just alive and free again and presumably still immortal.
  • Dexter's dad finds out his adopted son has murderous impulses and decides to give him a code to live by.
This show hasn't been good since season one, but this ending was bad.

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