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CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

why does the forum need another scifi/fantasy thread?

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CestMoi
Sep 16, 2011

cda posted:

At the same time, some critics have observed that a key recognition of adulthood is precisely this fact: that the world doesn't follow moral rules, that it has no inherent moral "content," and that all it contains is forms that follow formal rules, sometimes to the point of psychosis or self-contradiction. In this line of reasoning the Alice books absolutely teach, and were intended to teach, a lesson; not a lesson that makes a better *kid* but rather a lesson that demonstrates the process of becoming an adult and mastering a universe of empty forms.

i find this super interesting, particularly given carroll's love for formal logic & maths. never delved that much into his writings on that beyond 'what the tortoise said to achilles' but that's an essay that clearly demonstrates ways in which formal rules are not sufficient to actually do things in the world, or rather that any rule inherently presupposes further rules to infinity. good post.

anyway, lewis carroll leads me neatly into edward lear, since the two of them are really THE english language nonsense poets. i have a huge love for the both of them because they perfectly demonstrate the way in which poetry should work, where the form of the poem and its content are one and the same. understanding the way in which jabberwocky or the ahkond of swat work is a) much easier and b) much more instructive as to what a poem should be than going through all the sonnets or reading the waste land or whatever. it's easy to dismiss them as being empty forms but they're really not, they just lessen the burden on the meanings of the individual words to provide the drive of the poem.

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