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Stux
Nov 17, 2006

[posting intensifies]


ROFLBOT posted:

I have no reason to think im some weird outlier who just happens to know an overly large group of people who dont use their real names on FB.

Go and look through the member list of any large FB group and tell me there arent a bunch of names that arent real. This is not edge-case stuff.

Do a search for blatantly obvious fake-name accounts - the aforementioned Hugh Janus, Busta Gut, etc etc - you will be scrolling through accounts that are clearly not bots for pages.

youre fundamentally misunderstanding what a fake account is to facebook

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ROFLBOT
Apr 1, 2005



Neddy Seagoon posted:

They will. Yours aren't deleted because they're actually being used for Facebook, you just think you're somehow evading the system with a pseudonym (you're not, lol). A proper fake Facebook account would be one that just sits doing nothing except accumulating Oculus game purchases, and that can get dinged because Facebook can't make a link between those purchases and a Facebook user acting like a real person.

Guess what my FB account does? gently caress all. Pretty sure theres nothing in the TOS that says you need to make a minimum number of posts/likes/whatever. Think about it, its not in FB interest to delete accounts other than for the usual fake news/hate speech etc... and theyre not even good at that...

Owlbear Camus
Jan 3, 2013

Maybe this guy that flies is just sort of passing through, you know?




Out of curiosity I just fired up my VPN and tried to log into a very fake account I made in character for a high-concept ARG thing I was doing concurrent with a tabletop call of cthulhu thing. I haven't touched it in half a decade. It gave me the option of mobile or email recovery or uploading ID. I chose email, which I also had to recover from the untouched email address associated, and then logged in fine.

Junk
Dec 20, 2003

It's disgraceful - us being forced to pick wood for our smuggler-ancestors beacon-fires!


Wait, when the Myst remake says it's coming out for Oculus, does that mean I'm SOL as an Index owner? Because if the barrier between me and Myst in VR is loving Facebook I think I might actually resort to terrorism.

Thoatse
Feb 29, 2016

It's just a pledge bro!


ROFLBOT posted:

I have no reason to think im some weird outlier who just happens to know an overly large group of people who dont use their real names on FB.

Go and look through the member list of any large FB group and tell me there arent a bunch of names that arent real. This is not edge-case stuff.

Do a search for blatantly obvious fake-name accounts - the aforementioned Hugh Janus, Busta Gut, etc etc - you will be scrolling through accounts that are clearly not bots for pages.

I've heard it has to do with how long you've had a fake account... older ones that haven't already been flagged for some reason get by their detection methods but with AI/machine learning new ones are rooted out in short order. They've also plainly stated that content on fake accounts is lost if they close them so fake accounts are a risky gamble at best unless you already have a working one.

The privacy issue is one thing however many despise facebook for being straight up loving nazis that use/allow their platform to be weaponized to forward the chud agenda so even a working a fake account is not a work around for supporting racist genocidal right wingers

Wheezle
Aug 13, 2007

420 stop boats erryday


Junk posted:

Wait, when the Myst remake says it's coming out for Oculus, does that mean I'm SOL as an Index owner? Because if the barrier between me and Myst in VR is loving Facebook I think I might actually resort to terrorism.

Nope, there's a store page on Steam for it right now.

Zaphod42
Sep 13, 2012

"I find my life is a lot easier the lower I keep my expectations."
-Bill Watterson


Junk posted:

Wait, when the Myst remake says it's coming out for Oculus, does that mean I'm SOL as an Index owner? Because if the barrier between me and Myst in VR is loving Facebook I think I might actually resort to terrorism.

Good news https://store.steampowered.com/app/1255560/Myst/

Even if it wasn't gonna be on steam, you could use Revive, but you'd have to create a FB account. Luckily, with Cyan already putting Obduction on Steam and supporting OpenVR, odds are we're gonna be taken care of here too.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


ROFLBOT posted:

Guess what my FB account does? gently caress all. Pretty sure theres nothing in the TOS that says you need to make a minimum number of posts/likes/whatever. Think about it, its not in FB interest to delete accounts other than for the usual fake news/hate speech etc... and theyre not even good at that...

Completely and utterly wrong. Facebook might not ban hate speech and fake news, but they absolutely have the tools to nuke that poo poo on-demand if it wasn't such a big money-earner for them. Fake accounts that just get a few Oculus purchases are not revenue-making products for them.

quote:

Many responded to the news by suggesting that people who donít want a Facebook account should just make a fake account solely to use with their headset. But that wonít fly, Facebook says.

The Facebook Community Standards aim to protect against common-sense harm like illegal matters of violence, criminal behavior, and fraud, but also impose restrictions on legal matters, like using a pseudonym to identify oneself, and speech relating to what Facebook deems objectionable content, which includes hate speech, violent & graphic content, adult nudity & sexual activity, and cruel & insensitive speech.

You may not do a lot with your Facebook account, but I'd bet good money it's doing a whole lot to track you elsewhere by association.


Also holy gently caress you should all be just a wee bit concerned at the idea of a system-level fitness tracker in a Facebook VR device. That sounds you're hearing is the keening wail of health insurance companies experiencing pure ecstasy.

Shoefish
Sep 29, 2005
captain haggis mcnipplesworthy

Contemplating getting a Reverb G2, a little worried about the lack of capacitive buttons, but for now am still very happy with my Rift S. It did everything I wanted for an upgrade from the Vive, comfort, better controllers, and improved resolution. Still I think the best value/money PCVR headset.

The Kins
Oct 2, 2004

Sector Effector


Junk posted:

Wait, when the Myst remake says it's coming out for Oculus, does that mean I'm SOL as an Index owner? Because if the barrier between me and Myst in VR is loving Facebook I think I might actually resort to terrorism.
Official word from Cyan's support Twitter is that a VR-only version will be released on Quest first, then the PC version will come out later and support flatscreen and additional VR hardware. It already has Steam and GOG store pages, so I don't think the exclusivity period will be too long.

ROFLBOT
Apr 1, 2005



Neddy Seagoon posted:

Completely and utterly wrong. Facebook might not ban hate speech and fake news, but they absolutely have the tools to nuke that poo poo on-demand if it wasn't such a big money-earner for them. Fake accounts that just get a few Oculus purchases are not revenue-making products for them.


You may not do a lot with your Facebook account, but I'd bet good money it's doing a whole lot to track you elsewhere by association.

Again, i dont know what to tell you but if FB are nuking low-value fake accounts theyre not doing a very good job of it.

This conversation reminded me of another fake account i set up 6 years ago (i think it was to autologin to some website, IDK)

The profile has no friends, no personal info, no photos (other than the profile one you can see posted below), no posts and only a handful of likes for some bands for whatever reason.

Here is what the activity log looks like



Hasnt been logged in to for 6 years until today (back when i used to use one pw for everything!) Zero data value to FB. Still exists. If that is what is required to use a Quest or whatever, i dont see that as a bridge too far. Maybe you do, fine dont buy one.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


ROFLBOT posted:

Again, i dont know what to tell you but if FB are nuking low-value fake accounts theyre not doing a very good job of it.

We're telling you that your so-called fake accounts you use to socialize with your wife and friends actually aren't.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Neddy Seagoon posted:


Also holy gently caress you should all be just a wee bit concerned at the idea of a system-level fitness tracker in a Facebook VR device. That sounds you're hearing is the keening wail of health insurance companies experiencing pure ecstasy.

Don't they get that information already from smartphones?
edit: hell they already had a good proxy, they know what games you own and how many hours in each. So they could look at number of hours of (list of active games like Beat Saber, Pistol Whip, etc) per month to have an estimate of same.

Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 06:49 on Sep 17, 2020

Gentleman Baller
Oct 13, 2013


I've had two obviously fake FB accounts that I used for FB games that were banned, but they only had each other + me as friends and I never bothered to try to contest the ban. I have no idea if contesting the bans with some photoshopped ID would have worked but Im probably not going to risk any games catalogue on that gamble.

Hadlock
Nov 9, 2004





Hadlock posted:

New thread title?

VR Megathread: Facebook account required.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011




DO IT you cowards!
etc

I have to pour in later in the Carmack talk.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXmY26pOE-Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P7mFEGah27c

Tom Guycot
Oct 15, 2008

Chief of Governors





Huh, thats interesting. So the reason 90hz isn't enabled right now for reviewers is at the last minute they realized there was a conflict with the guardian system still running at 72hz.

Also good to see he's really pushing for a wireless link, maybe theres some hope of an official solution down the line.

Stan Taylor
Oct 13, 2013

Touched Fuzzy, Got Dizzy

Pistol Whip 2089 on steam when?

Zero VGS
Aug 16, 2002
"It has gunfights and shit!"


Lipstick Apathy

Hadlock posted:

New thread title?

VR Megathread: Facebook account required.

Don't worry, just go along with it now and that requirement will eventually get bored and move on to job interviews, emergency room lobbies, voter registration...

I think we might owe Bargefink a collective apology.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Tom Guycot posted:

Huh, thats interesting. So the reason 90hz isn't enabled right now for reviewers is at the last minute they realized there was a conflict with the guardian system still running at 72hz.

Also good to see he's really pushing for a wireless link, maybe theres some hope of an official solution down the line.

I still haven't watched it, being at work and all that...

but I read on Reddit that they aren't using close at all the power of the XR2 chip, because of thermal limits and battery consumption of the fan.

TACD
Oct 27, 2000



It's fairly hilarious watching everybody trip over themselves to make excuses for Facebook so they can get a $300 VR headset when just a few weeks ago everybody was so outraged that Facebook hosed them over in a way they'd pinky-promised not to.

Corbeau
Sep 12, 2010

Jack of All Trades


The folks who were outraged left.

I know that the announcement killed VR interest from my personal circle of friends stone dead, but they're not constantly yelling about it. They're just not considering Oculus stuff and/or planning to sell what they already have.

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


Obviously people are still outraged about it; that's why we're still getting multiple arguments about it every page. But most of us who don't like it just aren't going to buy one, and beyond that there's not much more to say; it would take actual consumer protection laws in the US to change things and we're not going to get those by complaining here.

Fortunately we've switched from Oculus to Pico at my work so I won't be using one there either, though that's more due to Pico's headsets being half the price than any ethical or privacy concerns.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



If someone hates Facebook and that's why he won't use a FB account, he shouldn't buy a Quest 2 even if a Facebook account wasn't needed.
-It's a product designed and engineered by Facebook employees, it's 100% a FB product
-the profits will go to FB coffins
-the Oculus account was also a FB controlled account.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?


Nap Ghost

I just want roflbot to imagine waking up tomorrow and seeing his account locked for fraud and all of his purchases linked to it gone. I'm sure there's a way to get it back, but imagine that your scheme finally fails.

Do you still feel the same way? Can you see why others aren't comfortable making fake IDs to play games?

ROFLBOT
Apr 1, 2005



TACD posted:

It's fairly hilarious watching everybody trip over themselves to make excuses for Facebook so they can get a $300 VR headset when just a few weeks ago everybody was so outraged that Facebook hosed them over in a way they'd pinky-promised not to.

Honestly donít care either way mate, my next headset will likely be a G2 - i have no interest in a Quest. What i am pointing out is this idea that you have no choice other than to use a FB account with all your bona-fide personal details as if there is literally no way to game FB at all, is rubbish.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


ROFLBOT posted:

Honestly donít care either way mate, my next headset will likely be a G2 - i have no interest in a Quest. What i am pointing out is this idea that you have no choice other than to use a FB account with all your bona-fide personal details as if there is literally no way to game FB at all, is rubbish.

A pseudonym for a Facebook account, that you're actively using for actual Facebook purposes, is about as effective as a false moustache. You're really not as clever as you think with this one and have gamed squat.



NRVNQSR posted:

Obviously people are still outraged about it; that's why we're still getting multiple arguments about it every page. But most of us who don't like it just aren't going to buy one, and beyond that there's not much more to say; it would take actual consumer protection laws in the US to change things and we're not going to get those by complaining here.

What's impressed me is how thoroughly brazen they've gotten. How can you not look at them adding system-wide fitness tracking and wonder what it's actually recording .

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


Turin Turambar posted:

If someone hates Facebook and that's why he won't use a FB account, he shouldn't buy a Quest 2 even if a Facebook account wasn't needed.

Those are the reasons why people with ethical concerns about Facebook shouldn't get one. Account linking and ToS changes are issues for people with privacy concerns about Facebook.

If FB could get all the data they want from the existing accounts and ToS then they wouldn't be making these changes; they're making them because they get them access to significantly more of users' private data and because they allow them to bypass regulations that would have limited data sharing between the different accounts. Again, these changes are why the Quest is no longer available for sale in Germany - it's not meaningless change for the sake of change, reducing users' privacy and bypassing consumer protections is their direct goal.

ROFLBOT
Apr 1, 2005



Neddy Seagoon posted:

A pseudonym for a Facebook account, that you're actively using for actual Facebook purposes, is about as effective as a false moustache. You're really not as clever as you think with this one and have gamed squat.

Did you miss the part where i posted my other fake still-active account, the one with no information in it, no activity, no posts, no logins for 6 years?

why yes, you did.

Mischievous Mink
May 29, 2012




ROFLBOT posted:

Did you miss the part where i posted my other fake still-active account, the one with no information in it, no activity, no posts, no logins for 6 years?

why yes, you did.

I think itís just that your anecdote is worthless and nobody cares about your single account hat has avoided problems.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I'm a bit worried with the IPD thing, some reviewers said they could notice more chromatic aberration because their real IPD was in between two of the three possible settings.

chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



I'm pretty sure the account linking thing is far more about internal politics at Facebook than account sharing. Facebook could correlate Oculus accounts and Facebook accounts a million different ways, but most people probably used the same email addresses in the first place, and they bought the databases along with everything else, and the original TOS would have had a boilerplate "if we get acquired they get your data".

If you take a look at the stuff they've announced it becomes a lot more clear: they've got Horizon, they have Messenger, they straight up want Oculus users to be Facebook users mostly because it radically changes how internal divisions will be perceived and funded. Oculus users don't mean poo poo to the bulk of the company, only Facebook users do. Carmack does a great job of honestly laying out how crazy political Facebook can get in his most recent unscripted talk, but even without that, the same is true of any sufficiently large and dumb company, and Facebook is nothing if not dumb as hell.

NRVNQSR
Mar 1, 2009


Turin Turambar posted:

I'm a bit worried with the IPD thing, some reviewers said they could notice more chromatic aberration because their real IPD was in between two of the three possible settings.

Three locked IPD settings seems like a terrible decision and I can't see it surviving to another headset. It seems like the worst of both worlds; the wear of mechanical changes combined with the distortion from lenses not aligning with your eyes. "Move the lenses not the screen" is a sensible compromise for the IPD problem and I can see more headsets using it going forward, but surely most of them will do so with a slider.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

Hi, Everybody!


chaosbreather posted:

I'm pretty sure the account linking thing is far more about internal politics at Facebook than account sharing. Facebook could correlate Oculus accounts and Facebook accounts a million different ways, but most people probably used the same email addresses in the first place, and they bought the databases along with everything else, and the original TOS would have had a boilerplate "if we get acquired they get your data".

No, they actually couldn't from a legal standpoint (behind closed doors... eh, who knows...), and it's why they're forcing a Facebook account requirement on new users. And the reason why is why the Quest is currently not for sale in Germany.


NRVNQSR posted:

Three locked IPD settings seems like a terrible decision and I can't see it surviving to another headset. It seems like the worst of both worlds; the wear of mechanical changes combined with the distortion from lenses not aligning with your eyes. "Move the lenses not the screen" is a sensible compromise for the IPD problem and I can see more headsets using it going forward, but surely most of them will do so with a slider.

My assumption on how it would surely work is three physical distances and then software IPD to fine-tune. Is it really just three hard settings and nothing more?

Roll Fizzlebeef
Sep 9, 2003



Biscuit Hider

Giving facebook money is still grimy whether you use a "fake" account or not. Additionally, they will have your real identity when you buy a game with a credit card if they don't already (they do). In conclusion, gently caress you.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Neddy Seagoon posted:


My assumption on how it would surely work is three physical distances and then software IPD to fine-tune. Is it really just three hard settings and nothing more?

The three settings also change the position of the image shown on screen, so it's moved left or right the appropriate number of pixels. But several reviewers have said they expected or hoped a software-ipd setting to fine tune it, and there isn't. Let's hope they take the feedback and do it later.

In other news, I ordered mine in Amazon with the normal (non-battery) elite strap. I will try to attach somehow my own portable battery (used before for Quest 1 counterweight).
With the improved screen, I can see starting to use it for movie/netflix watching, something that seemed silly with the Quest 1.

Nocheez
Sep 5, 2000

Can you spare a little cheddar?


Nap Ghost

Is the Index really that unique that is has a big slider on the bottom of the headset for adjusting the IPD?

chaosbreather
Dec 9, 2001

Wry and wise,
but also very sexual.



Neddy Seagoon posted:

No, they actually couldn't from a legal standpoint (behind closed doors... eh, who knows...), and it's why they're forcing a Facebook account requirement on new users. And the reason why is why the Quest is currently not for sale in Germany.


My assumption on how it would surely work is three physical distances and then software IPD to fine-tune. Is it really just three hard settings and nothing more?

Privacy laws are the reason why Germany halted imports but it doesn't make sense to me that data gathering would be their motive. Oculus is hobby-scale right now and they're seeking growth, entire ecosystem growth, not how the couple thousand people with quests swing their arms in a dozen games once a fortnight. There's nothing worse than an auth system migration, and Facebook gets better data than that when you go to the bathroom. Political motivations, under the guise of synergy, is what that reads to me as. Especially when you look at how they're minimising the oculus brand from being a company brand to a product line brand.

And yep, three settings, but it's been speculated that they'll add more in software down the line. So yeah, if it doesn't work for me I'll just return it.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Nocheez posted:

Is the Index really that unique that is has a big slider on the bottom of the headset for adjusting the IPD?

The polemic comes in that precisely Quest 1 had that system, and Quest 2 doesn't. Index, like Quest 1, has two screens, the slider moves everything, lenses and single screen. Quest 2 has a single screen, like Rift S, so it cannot be done easily.

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8one6
May 20, 2012

When in doubt, err on the side of Awesome!



Grimey Drawer

Nocheez posted:

Is the Index really that unique that is has a big slider on the bottom of the headset for adjusting the IPD?

A mechanical slider adds manufacturing and software complexity and every company in VR right now seems to wants to get rid of it. It's why the one on the Index only goes up to 70 instead of 72 like the Vive because it saves them dev time/money/qa time.

The extra 2mm doesn't seem like much but for those of us who are the hammerhead member of the street sharks it's a big deal and all of the companies going "Ehhh, most people have an IPD of 64 so close enough" really sucks.

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