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Cojawfee posted:A wired connection has two devices in its collision domain, the computer and the router, and little interference. A wireless connection has several devices in its collision domain plus lots of interference and attenuation. You can get 500mbps, sure, but that's in ideal conditions. If your headset transmits and then your PC transmits, these collide and both sides stop transmitting and wait a bit and try again. While waiting for that, you get lag. This is why I'm so big on dedicated routers. Thank you for explaining it more clearly than I could. A dedicated router on a clear channel with LOS to the headset also only has 2 devices in its collision domain, and minimal interference/attenuation. I'm also looking forward to WiFi 7 further improving things by allowing different connections to happen on entirely different bands (e.g. your router streams video to your headset on 6GHz, your headset streams position/control information back on 5GHz, and ne'er the twain shall collide).
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Mar 28, 2024 21:45
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well, quest 1 is really properly dead now, just got this email explaining that no new software will be allowed to support it I assume this also means that they've finally dropped the requirement for applab submissions to work on quest 1, it was really dumb that only applab had that requirement
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Mar 29, 2024 05:00
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RIP I bought a Quest at launch (and they sent me two of them by mistake, thanks!) because the idea of standalone 6DOF VR was pretty exciting. It was rough at launch, the passthrough was completely uncorrected and looked totally broken, the OS was even more barebones than it is now, but you could see the potential. Conversions from PCVR like Robo Recall and Walking Dead: Saints & Sinners laid bare just how anemic the smartphone chip in the Quest was but also demonstrated that graphics be damned, the games were still fun. ALVR kinda showed the potential of using Quest for PCVR but it wasn't until Oculus Link which used a whole bag of tricks to boost image quality and reduce latency, when it became clear that the Rift line of products was a dead end. I called it! I told ya! 4 years seems a bit short a lifespan. At least it'll continue to be useful as a PCVR headset.
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Mar 29, 2024 05:24
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SCheeseman posted:4 years seems a bit short a lifespan. At least it'll continue to be useful as a PCVR headset. 4 years is a good console lifespan, especially with VR tech iterating as fast as it has over the years. Killing it off was absolutely the right move before it became even more of an albatross on Quest software development .
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Mar 29, 2024 05:32
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4 years is more like half a console generation, but I'm not complaining too strongly. I am a little concerned that bitrot might set in and cause incompatibles between the PCVR streaming server and old Quest client APKs.
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Mar 29, 2024 05:38
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I'm guessing you'll be able to get modified APKs to sideload for virtual desktop etc
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Mar 29, 2024 05:51
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Full root was opened on Oculus Go after it was EOL'd which took longer than it maybe should have, but it was nice that it happened and who knows, maybe it'll happen for the Q1.
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Mar 29, 2024 06:48
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SCheeseman posted:4 years is more like half a console generation, but I'm not complaining too strongly. I am a little concerned that bitrot might set in and cause incompatibles between the PCVR streaming server and old Quest client APKs. Look at VR in terms of consoles starting in the 90's, when everyone was throwing stuff at the wall with a relatively-niche hobby to see what'd stick (controller layouts, rendering, hardware, etc), and the lifespan lines up fairly consistently; Every console had a lifespan of about 3-5 years at most.
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Mar 29, 2024 07:06
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The Eyes Have It posted:Full root was opened on Oculus Go after it was EOL'd which took longer than it maybe should have, but it was nice that it happened and who knows, maybe it'll happen for the Q1. Go rooting was a pet project of Carmack who by his own account had to push hard to get it to happen. Now that he's gone I wouldn't expect any uncharacteristic nods to The Old Ways to come from Meta.
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Mar 29, 2024 07:07
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Didn't realize he quit Meta, thats too bad, kinda felt like he was fighting the good fight in there
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Mar 29, 2024 09:06
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same with the netflix app apparently, that's why it hasn't been updated at all
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Mar 29, 2024 09:21
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Another way to see it imo is that Quest 1 development 'death' has come 3.5 years after the Quest 2 release, which superseded the Quest 1. I think that's a normal timeframe to sunset something. Were Xbox one games selling more than 3.5 years after the release of the Xbox Series X/S?
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Mar 29, 2024 10:04
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Cojawfee posted:A wired connection has two devices in its collision domain, the computer and the router, and little interference. A wireless connection has several devices in its collision domain plus lots of interference and attenuation. You can get 500mbps, sure, but that's in ideal conditions. If your headset transmits and then your PC transmits, these collide and both sides stop transmitting and wait a bit and try again. While waiting for that, you get lag. So does a dedicated router communicate differently to phones and consoles on the same network? Trying to understand the latency difference, more data the headset needs to run PCVR compared to a PC playing esports? Though that's the same ms in lag...only just had a coffee and woke up as I percolate like a caffiene bean for Freddy Mercury from Queen (so me brain mayb stupid)
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Mar 29, 2024 11:03
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Desdinova posted:So does a dedicated router communicate differently to phones and consoles on the same network? Trying to understand the latency difference, more data the headset needs to run PCVR compared to a PC playing esports? Though that's the same ms in lag...only just had a coffee and woke up as I percolate like a caffiene bean for Freddy Mercury from Queen (so me brain mayb stupid) The phones and consoles won't be connected to it. Phones, laptops, consoles and all other devices will be connected to your standard internet router. The VR headset will be the only device connected to the Wifi on the VR access point, so it will get dedicated frequency range and bandwidth. The bandwidth requirements are completely different to anything else. Wireless VR is basically a 100-200 Megabit/second video stream, 10+ times more than even high quality Netflix. Esports are sending minimal required data, player is at coordinates X, running at a direction Y at speed Z, and just shot a rifle sending a bullet at direction something. Esports were done on a 56 kilobit modems back in the day.
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Mar 29, 2024 11:14
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Just attempted to buy a Q3 and for some reason my payment was declined. Tried again but this time using Paypal, again, payment declined Yes i have enough money in the bank Yes i have bought numerous things over the internet worth way more than this without problems It’s a long weekend so no chance of me ringing the bank for another 2 days oh well, guess it wasn’t meant to be
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Mar 30, 2024 10:26
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Gat dang Underdogs is the bee's knees. What a great VR platform implementation from top to bottom. Art direction, mechanics, etc. Even how to manage part upgrades: literally just says "play with it, you'll figure it out", and they're right! Minor accessibility quibble with the tutorial, there's a lot of talking and no subtitle option so if you're hard of hearing it's a bit opaque, but not hard to figure out thanks to the instructional billboards. Underdogs, Superhot, and Beat Saber are all fantastic native quest VR titles, IMO. They're not just good games, they color outside the lines enough to deliver something new.
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Mar 30, 2024 14:02
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  I went to the National Museum in Copenhagen yesterday and had a chance to try a state-of-the-art 17th century VR headset. Next time, I'll get a proper video and do a review.
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Mar 30, 2024 14:31
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SimonChris posted:Next time, I'll get a proper video and do a review. Well, at least you got the through-the-lens shot, that's the most important thing. No screen door effect?
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Mar 30, 2024 14:33
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Zero VGS posted:Well, at least you got the through-the-lens shot, that's the most important thing. No screen door effect? None whatsoever! Technology has regressed in many ways.
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Mar 30, 2024 15:03
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Saukkis posted:The phones and consoles won't be connected to it. Phones, laptops, consoles and all other devices will be connected to your standard internet router. The VR headset will be the only device connected to the Wifi on the VR access point, so it will get dedicated frequency range and bandwidth. I get that the headset and PC are the only things on the second router, but I meant what was the difference between the router connecting to the other router and the headset connecting to that router? Just one less device because the PC and headset are on one router that doesn't compete with the other devices, while the router is still sending/receiving the same data? Thanks, the second part is great info, what a leap!
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Mar 30, 2024 15:22
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Hoog man. Loaded up the quest for the first time in like a year or so. Played red matter two and everything was going great until I went in an elevator that was moving VERY FAST and holy poo poo the motion sickness.
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Mar 30, 2024 16:40
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Reek posted:Didn't realize he quit Meta, thats too bad, kinda felt like he was fighting the good fight in there Nah, Carmack is a piece of poo poo that is into web3.0 and Crypto stuff. He can go suck rear end.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:24
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I said come in! posted:Nah, Carmack is a piece of poo poo that is into web3.0 and Crypto stuff. He can go suck rear end. Uhh... are you confusing him with another famous tech person or something?
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Mar 30, 2024 20:32
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Turin Turambar posted:Uhh... are you confusing him with another famous tech person or something? No, i'm really not, but that is a fair question.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:36
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I said come in! posted:No, i'm really not, but that is a fair question. Well, what's your source? I have followed him on Twitter for a number of years, where he posts every few days, and I can't remember him him being interested into doing anything with "web 3.0". Apart from all the public keynotes and interviews he has down in the last years.
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Mar 30, 2024 20:39
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Yeah I find Carmak has a bunch of views I personally disagree with (and some that I think are downright problematic) but shilling crypto and Web 3.0 are not something that I have seen him do. So I think he still kind of sucks but not in this one very specific way
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Mar 30, 2024 21:10
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Well I can't find anything, so you can go back to liking him. But we have had discussions on this forum in the past about his lovely behavior, and apparent pivot into web3 stuff after Meta.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:20
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I said come in! posted:Well I can't find anything, so you can go back to liking him. But we have had discussions on this forum in the past about his lovely behavior, and apparent pivot into web3 stuff after Meta. He's been doing AI stuff, so not web3 but still one of the tech hype bubble things
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Mar 30, 2024 21:22
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Yeah he's still a transphobe who goes to weird chud conventions. Dude sucks a lot.
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Mar 30, 2024 21:27
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I said come in! posted:Well I can't find anything, so you can go back to liking him. But we have had discussions on this forum in the past about his lovely behavior, and apparent pivot into web3 stuff after Meta. AI*, not web3.... this is why I was asking if you were sure lol. *: and this isn't a case like Elon Musk or whatever other tech bro following ChatGPT steps, his interest is more... academic. As an actual software engineer, he was interested in how the hell machine learning worked, as a few years ago it started to be clear it was the bleeding edge of software-related developments and he had no knowledge in that area, so he started learning on his own. Right now he is kind of doing a passion project in trying to do AGI, although he himself admits it's a very long shot, and most probably he will fail. Mischievous Mink posted:Yeah he's still a transphobe Same error as I said come in! ? What's your source? He never participated in identity politics. Turin Turambar fucked around with this message at 21:37 on Mar 30, 2024 |
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Mar 30, 2024 21:31
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Last I remember about him was way back in the doom days just being a turbonerd. Haven't kept up with him but I'm sad if he's decided to be an asshat.
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Mar 30, 2024 22:01
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I heard John Carmack was D. B. Cooper.
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Mar 30, 2024 22:27
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If camack wasn’t a chud he would not have worked with Palmer Lucky for so long and probabl not Facebook either
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Mar 30, 2024 22:47
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Turin Turambar posted:AI*, not web3.... this is why I was asking if you were sure lol. He doesn't participate in identity politics, he just proudly goes to conventions centered on transphobia, among other dogshit;  https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1658683239513436167
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Mar 30, 2024 22:54
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Mischievous Mink posted:He doesn't participate in identity politics, he just proudly goes to conventions centered on transphobia, among other dogshit; If someone sits down for dinner with 9 chuds there are 10 chuds at the table
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Mar 30, 2024 23:00
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I thought everyone knew about Carmack? I certainly did and I'm not turbo online or anything. The dude is clearly and self-admitted uh, socially deficient? And yeah hanging out with Palmer, a legit actual real fascist of the literal hitler type isn't something that happens by accident.
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Mar 30, 2024 23:23
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Mischievous Mink posted:He doesn't participate in identity politics, he just proudly goes to conventions centered on transphobia, among other dogshit; That's the stupid manifesto of the chud founder, but the con itself *seems* to be a a more normalish scifi con This is what Carmack said https://twitter.com/ID_AA_Carmack/status/1659173689986883584?lang=en quote:My comments on BasedCon This is why I discussed the first part of the post (that he is a transphobe), and not the second (that he went to the con). Now, you may believe he is lying. It's a possibility. Maybe he IS a chud transphobe. Hell, he is a American heterosexual white man in his 50s who lives in Texas, there is a decent chance if you look at the stats! But I believe he is telling the truth. Why? Because he is John Carmack, precisely! He is famous for being an asocial turbo nerd, cold and rational and who spends more time with code than with people. He isn't exactly a people's person. So... I'd say he is the type he doesn't direct his life based on 'optics' and 'what others will think' nor 'modern society trends', like "cancelling someone". And if you followed him on Twitter you will know that is true he is libertarian and he loves scifi literature (honestly, he is more a book guy than a games guy, despite being a game dev for half his life). So is he an "ally", someone who takes care of supporting a side, and not supporting the other one? No. Is he an transphobe? Who the gently caress knows.
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Mar 31, 2024 09:34
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I wish there was some kind of passthru app that would let me design my garden and landscaping in the Quest. Or if not passthru, maybe it could use lidar to render a vr recreation of my yard that I can mess around in.
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Apr 1, 2024 02:13
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I read somewhere that the reason the passthru apps so far have been pretty limited and underwhelming is because Meta won’t let apps have access to the video data, basically meaning that they’re limited to projecting game tables and windows and not actually interacting with anything. I suppose they’re so worried about possible misuse that they’d rather neuter the potential of the mode.
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Apr 1, 2024 04:42
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tldr Q3 works alright as a fake virtual monitor if you spend a lot of time fiddling with it. I've been impressed by the Virtual Desktop streaming quality of my 3840x1600 ultrawide desktop. I don't know exactly what the Q3's resolution translates to in 2D space, but I think it can't actually render that resolution so it's downscaling somewhat and it doesn't look as good as the monitor when viewed side by side (AW3821DW). It does look a bit better than an old non-UW 1440p monitor I have. Ultrawide aspect ratio works well for the Q3's optics as I can position the size of the virtual monitor to be the perfect size to maximize view while keeping text legible and using as much horizontal fov as possible. Note you need to config Virtual Desktop to not gently caress with your resolution to stream native res. I know VDS has patched in better resolution support at some point so older notes that it just streams 1080p no matter what isn't accurate. Since desktop streaming is much less bandwidth intensive than VR streaming and my network is already setup to handle that (two 6E ceiling access points cat6 connected to a 2.5gig attic switch which the desktop is also ethernet connected but it's all on general network traffic no dedicated to VR equipment) then the streaming quality has always been great in my testing. Using it in a couple different rooms around the house away from the desktop I've had no streaming glitches or compression artifacts even in rooms with walls between it and the nearest AP. Flawless max quality VR streaming does require line of sight to an AP though. The worst part is android keyboard/mouse weirdness. If you don't want to use it sitting at your desk (which would be pointless to me since I have a perfectly fine monitor) and you are out of range of wireless peripherals connected to your desktop then you need to pair your kb/mouse to the Quest. When you do that apparently there is an old Android bug with such things so the mouse movement wasn't smooth and mouselook in games doesn't work at all. On the KB most of the special keys don't work (alt, windows, ctrl) and typing performance wasn't great either. According to the virtual desktop dev this is an android level bug that some manufacturers have workarounds in their devices but facebook has never bothered on the Quest. Considering they've pitched the Q3 and Quest Pro as potential productivity devices that seems like an omission. Solving that required some really annoying fiddle and after failing to get anywhere with a couple different solutions I ended up using VirtualHere. Virtualhere is ornery fairly expensive software ($50 per machine source license non transferrable) with infamously bad support. What VirtualHere does is allow a client to access devices on a LAN source and take them over as if they were directly connected to the client machine. So I can have a laptop with a wireless mouse+kb near where I am using the Q3 and from my desktop computer (via Virtual Desktop) takeover those devices and they act as if they were directly connected to the desktop PC. The Quest is out of the loop entirely so android bugs don't apply and typing/mouse performance has been fine enough to play Cyberpunk. Note that I could've saved myself a lot of trouble for gaming by relying on controller support. You can pair a controller to the Quest and that streams to the desktop mostly fine. My bt Xbox controller did occasionally lose connection to the Quest and would blink at me for like half a minute before reconnecting. That may be an issue with the controller and bt since I'm sure plenty of people use it that way. When I had the controller connected to the laptop via xbox wireless dongle and then shared via VirtualHere it never had an issue. Though I actually hate playing Cyberpunk with a controller so I kept going back to kb+mouse for it anyway. Very annoying setup but it does work. I've been playing through the Cyberpunk expansion and some random turn-based games on my couch/bed with it. The adjustable virtual monitor positioning means you can bring it closer for games with more reading easily. I found quality better in VDS to just stream the desktop rather than go into steamvr, stream that, and then use steam vr's virtual monitor. I also found it way better quality for 2D streaming than either the official Steam Link app or a sideloaded android version. For actual productivity (browsing/coding) I'd say it was more meh. It works alright. I've actually moved away from multiple monitors to just using my 38" UW with fancy zones anyway so that wasn't any different (I never tried Immersed which does have multi monitor support). I could foresee a day when ergonomics of mixed reality monitors could be better since the display could sit at whatever the most natural eye/neck/shoulder position without any limitations of mounts or whatever. Switching between standing/sitting/zero gravity lying back/whatever would be seamless. However, the current awkwardness of the heavy goggles far surpasses any of those ideas for me even with a good strap. I also think the displays are more fatiguing on the eye than a traditional monitor even with prescription inserts. There are also a lot of minor problems with using them as a mixed reality display. I generally use the Quest with a minimal facial interface so I have my periphery open and I always have the passthrough going around the virtual monitor, but you are still somewhat removed from the room. I half watched some tv while playing Cyberpunk and certain tv scenes were too bright on the passthrough to see what was going on. I can chat with my wife wearing it, but of course I'm hidden behind the nerd goggles so that presents some disconnect between us. There is also fiddle with the Quest interface that isn't great. Hand tracking really sucks when using as a MR display because it kept picking up mouse/kb/controller usage as potential hand gestures. Unfortunately, you can't access any Quest interface functions via kb/mouse so you need to keep a touch controller nearby to do any of that or adjust the Virtual Desktop settings. If you jostle the controller it'll light up and interfere with the display and may do some mouse movement. I also found the normal shifting one does while sitting was enough to cause the seated guardian to light up occasionally (annoyingly) so I had to setup an overlarge roomscale around where I was sitting. It works if for whatever reason someone really wants/need to use them for productivity, but I think the Q3 is more suited to being a casual gaming display than productivity. I do have some old dedicated MR display glasses (Xreal Air) that at first I thought were far superior to the Q3. They just work as a dumb HDMI out display so they have less fiddle and they have fairly sharp OLED lenses though limited to 1080p. They are a lightweight glasses formfactor so are immensely more comfortable than the Quest though it does mean they must always be plugged in to something. I've used them quite a bit as a big laptop and steam deck display and they are acceptable for that (streaming desktop games to laptop or deck and then played on the glasses works fine). However, the company sucks at software. Even after years the Windows software that is supposed to let you use them as anything but a fixed display with zero customization is buggy and barely works. Allegedly they work well with very particular Android phones that support their software (a handful of specific models) but I've never had one. The default fixed display isn't quite right so it really sucks there is no way to pin or adjust it at all. They sell another product that adds those functions in hardware instead, but it sounds buggy and I'm definitely not investing more into their ecosystem. The larger higher resolution Q3 display was starting to win me over when my Airs started getting glitchier so that I'd need to go through unplug/replug/reboot cycles to get them to recognize a connection was live. That had happened before but has gotten a lot worse recently. I think they are being permanently retired in favor of the Q3. Despite the many issues of the Quest as a display they do let me game away from my desktop alright.
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Apr 1, 2024 05:09
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