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Question Time
Sep 12, 2010




VR is amazingly effective at working those glutes. If you aren’t doing Fitbeat or equivalent 10x a day you’re doing it wrong. And the best part is being able to escape the tyranny of pants while doing it.

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forest spirit
Apr 6, 2009

Frigate Hetman Sahaidachny
First to Fight Scuttle, First to Fall Sink


Butt Discussin posted:

VR is amazingly effective at working those glutes. If you aren’t doing Fitbeat or equivalent 10x a day you’re doing it wrong. And the best part is being able to escape the tyranny of pants while doing it.

username/post combo :golfclap:

And yeah, exercising with only unmentionables and a fan is excellent

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

forest spirit posted:

username/post combo :golfclap:

And yeah, exercising with only unmentionables and a fan is excellent

I hope they tip well

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008
https://www.oculus.com/blog/welcoming-bigbox-vr-to-facebook/

I am begging someone to do anything to even pretend to compete with Facebook

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

No one is going to bother competing with Facebook head on except maybe Valve (so no one, basically). Any challengers from here on out will be targeting niche markets or use cases in order to try to get a foothold in the market. Unfortunately, Facebook is just going to continue to eat talent for a long while and if one wants to avoid them, it will mean choosing to sit out from things they are producing, which sucks but isn't the end of the world, frankly.

Bizarro Kanyon
Jan 3, 2007

Something Awful, so easy even a spaceman can do it!


Man, my face sweats so much in the Oculus.

Tested out Gun Raiders and I liked it.

I also tested out Synth Rider. Like Beat Saber, I think the game could be fun but I always hate the “buy DLC” set up. Maybe if they let you choose which DLC you start off with, I would be more willing to go with it.

I also did the demo of Journey of the Gods and it seems like it could be a fun adventure game.

I bought Google Tilt Brush and, as a teacher, I think art students would love to create such amazing 3D interactive pieces.

Does anyone in this thread let their kids, under 13, use the system? I know that there is the warning but I did not know if people let their 10+ age kids use it anyways?

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Lemming posted:

https://www.oculus.com/blog/welcoming-bigbox-vr-to-facebook/

I am begging someone to do anything to even pretend to compete with Facebook

I'm actually waiting for the Resolution Games acquisition. They have made several VR games at this point so they are veterans, and as their later titles are in fact improving in quality (Demeo, Blaston). It would an obvious move by FB.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008

mutata posted:

No one is going to bother competing with Facebook head on except maybe Valve (so no one, basically). Any challengers from here on out will be targeting niche markets or use cases in order to try to get a foothold in the market. Unfortunately, Facebook is just going to continue to eat talent for a long while and if one wants to avoid them, it will mean choosing to sit out from things they are producing, which sucks but isn't the end of the world, frankly.

Buying dev studios just requires money, it doesn't require hardware and research and stuff, which is way harder to compete with them on. I don't get why everyone else seems to be surrendering VR software to Facebook, even though I understand better why they're surrendering VR hardware to them

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



https://www.reddit.com/r/OculusQuest/comments/nxmc9x/we_just_released_a_free_vr_film_on_oculus_tv/

Shine
Feb 26, 2007

No Muscles For The Majority

Leal posted:

drat you're an admin now? Goondolences.

I am (again), thanks! Definitely not gonna be as involved in day-to-day forum stuff as I was the first go around (I'm old and busy and married now), but I'm helping out where I can.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Bizarro Kanyon posted:


Does anyone in this thread let their kids, under 13, use the system? I know that there is the warning but I did not know if people let their 10+ age kids use it anyways?

Given the amount of children voices you can hear on any free game on Quest, it's pretty sure there are lots of people letting their kids to play with it. Even if they shouldn't.

TIP
Mar 21, 2006

Your move, creep.



Bizarro Kanyon posted:

Does anyone in this thread let their kids, under 13, use the system? I know that there is the warning but I did not know if people let their 10+ age kids use it anyways?

The age restriction is mainly there because they require a Facebook account which also requires you to be 13. Things get much more complicated legally when you're targeting those 12 and under.

There is no evidence to support that using VR goggles or other 3d technologies is harmful to children.

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

Lemming posted:

Buying dev studios just requires money, it doesn't require hardware and research and stuff, which is way harder to compete with them on. I don't get why everyone else seems to be surrendering VR software to Facebook, even though I understand better why they're surrendering VR hardware to them

Yeah, that's a good point. There's not a ton of investment in VR these days. I think there's a lot of leftover reluctance from the first couple years of VR when they really tried to push it HARD while it was still very young, among other reasons.

Facebook has a lot of incentive to acquire VR-only devs where other publishers don't, really. At least not any more incentive than acquiring flatscreen devs.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008

mutata posted:

Yeah, that's a good point. There's not a ton of investment in VR these days. I think there's a lot of leftover reluctance from the first couple years of VR when they really tried to push it HARD while it was still very young, among other reasons.

Facebook has a lot of incentive to acquire VR-only devs where other publishers don't, really. At least not any more incentive than acquiring flatscreen devs.

I'd argue that it's valuable for VR software in general as well as AR stuff down the line, I think that VR game devs are getting the most experience with these platforms in a way that is more useful than pure research since they're actually hitting customers and figuring out what works in the market. I think the people who have really deep insight into the best way to use these platforms are probably going to start with a background in games, so I think this kind of approach is more forward thinking in general. I think places like Apple who seem to be taking AR seriously are making a big mistake by ignoring these things, although I guess it's possible they'll just try to poach people down the line

mutata
Mar 1, 2003

I agree, yeah. I think there's a bunch of factors that make VR as a tech and as an industry still seem like a novelty (and to be fair, there's plenty of pure short-term novelty involved). Who knows where VR would be if Facebook hadn't decided to plant a flag there, but in any case it's not going anywhere and it has obvious and long-lasting uses.

Then again, I work in VR, so I'm not the most unbiased opinion. I wish other big parties were here. I would like to hear some other heavy-hitter's vision for the sector other than Facebook.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



Well, PSVR2 will come in 2022 , possibly, right? and the leaks and rumors point to being a quantum leap in comparison with the PSVR experience.

GutBomb
Jun 15, 2005

Dude?
I waited too long to try boneworks. It’s loving awesome. There’s a lot of talk about motion sickness among even longtime VR people in this thread with boneworks and I think that’s why I didn’t try it for so long. Big mistake. Not even a little motion sickness for me and the game is incredibly interesting and fun.

If the motion sickness talk has discouraged you from trying it, give it a go anyway and if it makes you sick, refund it. It’s well worth it.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

mutata posted:

No one is going to bother competing with Facebook head on except maybe Valve (so no one, basically). Any challengers from here on out will be targeting niche markets or use cases in order to try to get a foothold in the market. Unfortunately, Facebook is just going to continue to eat talent for a long while and if one wants to avoid them, it will mean choosing to sit out from things they are producing, which sucks but isn't the end of the world, frankly.

More directly, the earliest someone's going to have started on developing their own Oculus Quest competitor is 2019 (late 2018 if they were feeling bold based on the initial reveal). Even without the drag factor of COVID in 2020, that's not a whole lot of time for a project to get anywhere near something public-presentable. Facebook knows their lead can't last forever, and they're making drat sure to pick up any talent they can before anyone else does.


Turin Turambar posted:

Well, PSVR2 will come in 2022 , possibly, right? and the leaks and rumors point to being a quantum leap in comparison with the PSVR experience.

Yeah, but a "quantum leap in comparison" from PSVR is just existing PCVR :v:. They're also hamstrung by PS5 availability being completely hosed for at least another year.

bawk
Mar 31, 2013

Neddy Seagoon posted:

More directly, the earliest someone's going to have started on developing their own Oculus Quest competitor is 2019 (late 2018 if they were feeling bold based on the initial reveal). Even without the drag factor of COVID in 2020, that's not a whole lot of time for a project to get anywhere near something public-presentable. Facebook knows their lead can't last forever, and they're making drat sure to pick up any talent they can before anyone else does.

Yeah, but a "quantum leap in comparison" from PSVR is just existing PCVR :v:. They're also hamstrung by PS5 availability being completely hosed for at least another year.

It's a pipe dream, but just saying "gently caress it, PSVR2 has exclusives but it's also compatible with everything and the price point is $599.99" would at least rock the boat. I'm not following its dev at all so I don't know if it very exclusive but that's the same attitude the PS2 had for how many games you could play on it. If they pulled that kind of poo poo off it would at least plant themselves as the expensive but accessible market without a social media account

I still can't believe the index is a grand. I have an oculus 2 and my barrier for entry is 400 bucks and a fake Facebook account they haven't figured out

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

thecluckmeme posted:

It's a pipe dream, but just saying "gently caress it, PSVR2 has exclusives but it's also compatible with everything and the price point is $599.99" would at least rock the boat. I'm not following its dev at all so I don't know if it very exclusive but that's the same attitude the PS2 had for how many games you could play on it. If they pulled that kind of poo poo off it would at least plant themselves as the expensive but accessible market without a social media account

I still can't believe the index is a grand. I have an oculus 2 and my barrier for entry is 400 bucks and a fake Facebook account they haven't figured out

What should get something like PSVR2 in the door is by the time it releases everyone who'd buy it already has a $500USD PS5, so it's "just" their big $400-500USD gaming purchase for the year and not too big a pill to swallow comparing with the Quest 2's price tag for something that has fancier graphics.

Except that hasn't happened because of component shortages.

So now it's stuck with that $500 surcharge of a console as well in the eyes of anyone looking at one and it's $900-$1000USD to get into PSVR2 vs, ironically, $299USD for a Quest 2 and no issues actually finding a PS5 or PSVR2 set.

SCheeseman
Apr 23, 2003

Zen-based APUs are getting fairly close to VR min spec at 10w. Zen 4 + RDNA 3 could bring around GTX 1050-970 performance, which is enough to run a fair amount of the existing PCVR library and with total control over the driver/software stack there's the opportunity to implement custom VR specific optimizations that may not otherwise be possible on commodity PC hardware.

sethsez
Jul 14, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...

Neddy Seagoon posted:

More directly, the earliest someone's going to have started on developing their own Oculus Quest competitor is 2019 (late 2018 if they were feeling bold based on the initial reveal). Even without the drag factor of COVID in 2020, that's not a whole lot of time for a project to get anywhere near something public-presentable.

HTC and Lenovo both had standalone 6DoF headsets designed to compete with the Oculus Go. Their big drawback was including Go-like remotes rather than full controllers, but those were also in development at the time (not sure if their respective 6DoF controllers actually got released, but they were definitely shown).

People knew the Quest was coming for years (Project Santa Cruz was getting interest long before anyone knew it as Quest) and there were attempts to head it off right from the beginning. But Google left the market practically the second the Lenovo Mirage released, the Vive Focus barely got any traction and wasn't released in plenty of huge markets, and nobody else seemed (or seems) to give a poo poo about standalone VR. The Quest didn't catch anyone by surprise, the people who wanted to compete with it have already made their attempts, it was just the only one to actually get a meaningful push from a company with the interest and resources to do so. Valve and Microsoft don't care about standalone in 2021 any more than they did in 2018.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.


From my memory people didn’t expect the Quest to explode nearly as much as it did.

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!
I personally don't give a drat about VR being "standalone" but more companies need to adopt inside-out tracking at the very least, and also wireless play. I'd like to see a dedicated PC-only VR headset with something like a very low-latency box that could plug into USB-C or DVI+USB 3, and that had reliable inside-out tracking. Maybe even built-in, quality headphones.

The less wires, the better. I don't care about in-headset software, I don't need to take my headset into public spaces (nor want to). I just want something that doesn't feel like I'm strapped to my PC but also isn't a walled garden or made by Facebook.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

King Vidiot posted:

I personally don't give a drat about VR being "standalone" but more companies need to adopt inside-out tracking at the very least, and also wireless play. I'd like to see a dedicated PC-only VR headset with something like a very low-latency box that could plug into USB-C or DVI+USB 3, and that had reliable inside-out tracking. Maybe even built-in, quality headphones.

The less wires, the better. I don't care about in-headset software, I don't need to take my headset into public spaces (nor want to). I just want something that doesn't feel like I'm strapped to my PC but also isn't a walled garden or made by Facebook.

Personally I just want to see an entry/mid-level Lighthouse headset with some Touch-equivalent controllers. Lighthouse tech is a really good open platform, but it desperately needs something that's not the Index/Vive Pro 2 end of the scale that can be eventually upgraded piecemeal.



njsykora posted:

From my memory people didn’t expect the Quest to explode nearly as much as it did.

That's exactly why I said you can tell what the start date on a competitor's project would be.


sethsez posted:

HTC and Lenovo both had standalone 6DoF headsets designed to compete with the Oculus Go. Their big drawback was including Go-like remotes rather than full controllers, but those were also in development at the time (not sure if their respective 6DoF controllers actually got released, but they were definitely shown).

People knew the Quest was coming for years (Project Santa Cruz was getting interest long before anyone knew it as Quest) and there were attempts to head it off right from the beginning. But Google left the market practically the second the Lenovo Mirage released, the Vive Focus barely got any traction and wasn't released in plenty of huge markets, and nobody else seemed (or seems) to give a poo poo about standalone VR. The Quest didn't catch anyone by surprise, the people who wanted to compete with it have already made their attempts, it was just the only one to actually get a meaningful push from a company with the interest and resources to do so. Valve and Microsoft don't care about standalone in 2021 any more than they did in 2018.

People's assumptions for the Quest were heavily coached in the Oculus Go and didn't expect too much of it until it actually showed off near-PC-quality gaming and surprised everyone. Google left the VR development space because Daydream didn't set the world on fire like they assumed it would, and Lenovo got courted by Facebook into making the Rift S for them. The Vive Focus just did the same thing Samsung GearVR and Daydream did, only for a much higher pricepoint than an existing smartphone and a cheap frame, so there was zero chance of that gaining traction either. GearVR was also an Oculus partnership so there's no surprise that died too.

All of these predate the Oculus Quest and none of them were its competitors, intended or otherwise.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

Neddy Seagoon posted:

Personally I just want to see an entry/mid-level Lighthouse headset with some Touch-equivalent controllers. Lighthouse tech is a really good open platform, but it desperately needs something that's not the Index/Vive Pro 2 end of the scale that can be eventually upgraded piecemeal.

Isn't Lighthouse still just too expensive for the entry level? A pair of base stations, with no headset, costs almost as much as a Quest 2.

I feel like Valve backed the wrong horse with Lighthouse, it's doomed to always be a niche enthusiast and professional technology.

If they initially focused on building a solid reference implementation of inside-out tracking instead we might have more competition today.

repiv fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jun 12, 2021

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.
:byetankie:

repiv posted:

Isn't Lighthouse still just too expensive for the entry level? A pair of base stations, with no headset, costs almost as much as a Quest 2.

I feel like Valve backed the wrong horse with Lighthouse, it's doomed to always be a niche enthusiast and professional technology.

If they initially focused on building a solid reference implementation of inside-out tracking instead we might have more competition today.

Inside out tracking like the Quest isn't good enough to replace lighthouses. Maybe they need more trackers on the rear of the headset but I constantly am using my hands outside of view of my headset.
Fidelity of tracking is important, the way the quest does it is generally 'good enough' but certainly not the best.

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

repiv posted:

Isn't Lighthouse still just too expensive for the entry level? A pair of base stations, with no headset, costs almost as much as a Quest 2.

I feel like Valve backed the wrong horse with Lighthouse, it's doomed to always be a niche enthusiast and professional technology.

If they initially focused on building a solid reference implementation of inside-out tracking instead we might have more competition today.

It's the equivalent of buying a Desktop PC vs a Laptop. It's a bit more initially, but you can upgrade piece-by-piece instead of junking the whole thing and starting over come upgrade-time that'll last you far better in the long-term. The problem is it sorely needs a lower-end headset to make that buy-in easier to swallow. It's definitely not a full mainstream thing compared to an inside-out headset, but it's a platform with a lot of solved problems, and you can just put newer devices into it that simply aren't viable with standalone devices (eg; SteamVR Trackers for full-body tracking, or Logitech's VR Ink stylus).

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

KakerMix posted:

Inside out tracking like the Quest isn't good enough to replace lighthouses. Maybe they need more trackers on the rear of the headset but I constantly am using my hands outside of view of my headset.
Fidelity of tracking is important, the way the quest does it is generally 'good enough' but certainly not the best.

Lighthouse certainly has its place yeah, I just don't know if going there first was the right move. Valve could have gone there later after an MVP based on inside-out.

I worry that by the time HP/HTC/MS/Valve catch up on affordable tracking, Facebook will have already completely cornered the market and locked a majority of users into their ecosystem

Neddy Seagoon
Oct 12, 2012

"Hi Everybody!"

repiv posted:

Lighthouse certainly has its place yeah, I just don't know if going there first was the right move. Valve could have gone there later after an MVP based on inside-out.

I worry that by the time HP/HTC/MS/Valve catch up on affordable tracking, Facebook will have already completely cornered the market and locked a majority of users into their ecosystem

This has never been the problem though? :confused:

HP and HTC both have modern inside-out solutions with the Reverb G2 and the Focus 3. Valve's probably going to stick with Lighthouse because it's their baby and they just do not have to put effort when it Just Works for anything they build in it, and Microsoft has had affordable tracking since 2016 with the WMR platform. The big problem is Facebook is prepared to soak the costs on the hardware by throwing Facebook money at the problem in a way competitors aren't, or can't, because they know they'll reap massive dividends on the investment.

Realistically Facebook could probably just go "free headsets for everyone!" and still turn a profit on the Quest 2 with what they'd get out of it long-term.

repiv
Aug 13, 2009

I haven't used the other inside-out implementations from HP/HTC but I got the impression from reviews that Oculus is miles ahead of them in tracking quality, maybe the software has improved since then though

HP/HTCs inside-out headsets being more expensive than the Quest is understandable since they can't subsidise them, but it's a really tough sell if they're also not as polished as the cheaper option

repiv fucked around with this message at 16:21 on Jun 12, 2021

sethsez
Jul 14, 2006

He's soooo dreamy...

Neddy Seagoon posted:

HP and HTC both have modern inside-out solutions with the Reverb G2 and the Focus 3.

HP and HTC both have a long way to go to catch up to Oculus's inside-out controller tracking quality.

Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



It's very nice the Walkabout Minigolf's devs add more scenarios, but they also could add cloud saves already. I installed it, and surprise, surprised, I had all the hard golf courses locked again. I had all of them unlocked already.

StarkRavingMad
Sep 27, 2001


Yams Fan

KakerMix posted:

Inside out tracking like the Quest isn't good enough to replace lighthouses. Maybe they need more trackers on the rear of the headset but I constantly am using my hands outside of view of my headset.
Fidelity of tracking is important, the way the quest does it is generally 'good enough' but certainly not the best.

Just out of curiosity, what are you playing where you’re constantly losing tracking outside the view of the headset? Having played a lot of stuff on both Rift S and Quest 2, I can only think of one game where this has ever been an issue for me. (Sports Bar game with a pool table that came out before inside-out tracking was really a thing, and so it couldn’t figure out my back hand on the cue stick)

That’s the only scenario I can think of where one my hands had to do something while obscured by my body. Not trying to be snarky, I’m just interested in what games you’re running into this as an issue. Or wondering if you have a defective headset.

StarkRavingMad fucked around with this message at 18:38 on Jun 12, 2021

EbolaIvory
Jul 6, 2007

NOM NOM NOM

KakerMix posted:

Inside out tracking like the Quest isn't good enough to replace lighthouses. Maybe they need more trackers on the rear of the headset but I constantly am using my hands outside of view of my headset.
Fidelity of tracking is important, the way the quest does it is generally 'good enough' but certainly not the best.

Top end saber players, IE top 10, as well as many people in vr esports use/used quests and/or non light house oculus tracking. If it can keep up with saber and things like echo, it can keep up with anything. I'm really not sure how you're using your controllers outside of tracking range so regularly you notice it. Plus its really good about guessing if you're not hanging out in no tracking space, so if you're just doing a movement it should be fine? Really really really have no idea. I'm not stand still kinda guy either. Im swinging wildly all over the place. O_o

I can agree lighthouse IS better, but fact is for 99.99% of use cases the built in tracking on the quest/rift S is as good. And its gotten so much better over the last year or so that I if my quest had a better FOV and was more comfy, id use it a hell of a lot more tbh.

EbolaIvory fucked around with this message at 18:17 on Jun 12, 2021

King Vidiot
Feb 17, 2007

You think you can take me at Satan's Hollow? Go 'head on!
The only time I had an issue with my Rift S tracking was pre-patch when it had issues tracking too close to your headset. Now, unless my arms are totally behind my back (almost never) then it's fine.

Even archery with my hand right by my face isn't a problem.

Lord Decimus Barnacle
Jun 25, 2005


Hell Gem

Turin Turambar posted:

It's very nice the Walkabout Minigolf's devs add more scenarios, but they also could add cloud saves already. I installed it, and surprise, surprised, I had all the hard golf courses locked again. I had all of them unlocked already.

Yeah, that was the biggest issue with my wife’s quest getting the black screen of death. We play walkabout together quite a lot and having to factory reset her quest made it so she has to find all the balls and do all the fox hunts again for the special clubs.

Lemming
Apr 21, 2008

Dear Watson posted:

Yeah, that was the biggest issue with my wife’s quest getting the black screen of death. We play walkabout together quite a lot and having to factory reset her quest made it so she has to find all the balls and do all the fox hunts again for the special clubs.

I think they updated it so whoever creates the room sets what courses are unlocked for everyone who joined so that might not be necessary? I could be wrong, and ofc that doesn't help if you're playing by yourself or you're the person who unlocked everything

Lord Decimus Barnacle
Jun 25, 2005


Hell Gem
We played the new course last night with me creating the room. It had all the hard courses locked out until and they unlocked as she played each course.

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Turin Turambar
Jun 5, 2011



I don't expect any big announcement but here it's this thing...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKQQrMC84JE

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