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MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
So after upgrading my old shitbox PC to something that can handle VR, I started looking into it again as my wife is interested in it. It seems like for the kind of money we want to spend on something that we may or may not like, the Oculus sets are the optimal ones. I'm finding it hard to decide between the Rift S or the Quest as there are plenty of considerations I need to take into account. From online reviews, it seems like the Rift S is the better one when it comes to image quality and input latency. What is not clear is how big the difference is. That and the lightness makes the Rift S a favourite. The problem with the Rift S in my case is that the room that has the computer is too small to play VR in, so I would have to find a way to extent the DVI cable etc from the Rift S though the wall (the living room in on the other side of the wall. It's certainly possible, but seems a bit over the top for this (even I'm not directly opposed to it if the Rift S is much better). I would need to drill a hole anyway for the teather, but being a USB 3, it's not as big as a DVI to run. I should really drill a hole anyway to run network cable to my computer, so it's not all for the VR.

Then there is my concern about facebook and their privacy policy. I read that they aren't saving anything from the cameras etc, but still.

Another consideration is if these headsets are worth getting second hand. I can get them for $100-200 cheaper barely/lightly used from people who got them as gift or didn't like them. Do they clean up easy?

So in the end I'm leaning toward the Quest since it's portable, my wife can play at the same time as I'm on the computer etc. Oh and you can stream to the TV with the Quest...
After rambling it really seems like the Quest is the better option, I'm just worried about the image quality, input lag and compression from the link really.

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 14:11 on May 27, 2020

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MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Decided on a quest after all since it allows my wife to play whenever and pretty much wherever, and I can link it for PCVR games. Was in stock last time I looked, now out of stock. Good times.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Screw it, just bought an 128GB Quest. Good times.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
So my Quest order status is on hold last I checked (yesterday), and today when I want to check I get and infinite loop of being sent the email link to check status, but then the link is wrong / I have to log into guest account, which sends a new mail, which is wrong and a new link is sent which is wrong etc.

They sure are making something simple as checking an order status a pain in the rear end... Also, no money has yet been charged.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Sacred Cow posted:

How long ago did you order it? I had the same issue for the first few days of showing no activity beyond "Pending". Also, they wont charge until it ships and they send an official invoice. If in doubt, contact support and make sure there are no issues with your payment method.

Friday evening. I've been chalking it up to being a weekend etc. Good to know about the money not charging. I've double checked addresses and payment options (as I read that they had problems with that), and everything should good to go. I'll give it another day until I contact them. Thanks. :)

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Estimated delivery of our Quest is one tuesday (but knowing delivery drivers here, it'll be later as they'll either try to deliver when we are not home, or more likely - lie and say that we weren't home.). Oddly enough, the games I'm looking forward to the most right now are the VR mods of classic Doom, Quake etc. For some reason the demos just looked so drat cool.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
So after getting our Quest all I can say is that VR is pretty drat cool. I've been trying out classics (Quake, DOOM, Half Life) in VR and it's damned cool to suddenly be "inside" the games of my childhood. Also been playinga Rec Room a lot. Painball is fun. Been meaning to get Link working (very laggy atm), but I guess I have to take the time and find the right settings and so on.
The wife is loving it and we bought Beat Saber for her, which she's playing a ton.

All in all, good times.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Gort posted:

I've had good results with Virtual Desktop as a replacement for the Link.

Was super laggy for me. Gonna have to refine the setup.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Been experimenting with Virtual desktop and Link. After doing some research, it's clear that the stock cable is woefully inadequate at 389Mbps when people are buying cables that get up to 2Gbps.

So I did some experimenting with Virtual desktop and the lowest latency I manged to get was 86ms according to the desktop app. SteamVR still lags like hell and I didn't even try any games as it'll make me vomit with almost up to 1000ms (feels like it) delay. Since my ISP needs a proprietary router to work, I'm using my Asus AC1900 as an extender wired to my PC. I connected the Quest to that router, which is about 1m away. I dunno if the whole bridge thing is adding latency, but theoretically it should go directly from the PC to the quest I guess? It's about 40ms faster than connecting the ISP router.
Theoretically it should be able to get up to 1300Gbps in 5ghz.

Steam CR test thing gave my computer "max" marks, so shouldn't affect it.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

MarcusSA posted:

I’m so glad I didn’t get a Quest. Kudos to everyone that gets it to work right but drat this is just a mess I’m glad I don’t have to deal with.

Yeah though your PC is fine it’s something else like you mentioned.

It's great and my wife is loving it and we've had tons of fun. I just want to unlock the full potential.

deadly_pudding posted:

How much of a black box is the proprietary router?

If I had to guess, your network topography is doing some goofy poo poo like, PC -> Asus -> Proprietary -> Asus -> VR Headset

VD works great under ordinary circumstances; I was playing No Man's Sky the other day with no discernible lag on my Quest.

Is the proprietary router like full-stop requirement? My ISP offers one, but also gives you the option to just buy your own dang modem (they're not expensive) and register it with their system.

Branded with the ISP name type of black box. Can't do anything with it. But yeah I considered that the network was doing goofy poo poo like that (but then again I get better latency). The proprietary router (which is more of a gateway for cable TV and internet) connects using a DOCSIS type system to the ISP network because the dumbass old people decided that instead of accessing the free market with fiber connection, it would be nicer to pay more and get TV-packages.

Edit: It's pretty clear that I have a huge bottleneck in the setup though as I'm getting 30Mbit/s when I should be getting 100-200Mbit/s download speed. Time to redo the setup I think.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Deanut Pancer posted:

Does Quest<->Router2<->PC still work if the ISP router is temporarily powered off? That would at least help prove/disprove this possibility.

I've not yet tried anything that is super timing-critical such as Beat Saber via wireless Quest-VD link, but stuff like Valve Lab, or VRChat has been performing really nice for me with no cables.

I went gently caress it and drilled through the wall and now the computer is hard wired. I now get 193Mbit/s download speed instead of 30Mbit/s, which is very nice (and what I'm paying for). Still 80ms in Virtual desktop according to the launcher though. Hmm. Going to test if SteamVR lags as much now. According to VR app I'm at 866Mbps on the 5Ghz network, which is double what the Oculus app said that the stock charging USB-C cable does. So theoretically it should be better than the link experience...

Edit: SteamVR is much better, but still a bit too slow to be enjoyable. I played The Lab and the bow game, and it's on the verge of being ok to play. Embarrassingly my shoulder is so weak that it starts shaking after the first wave lol....
I've disabled 2.4Ghz so it can't connect by mistake. I've tried putting it on AC and 40mhz (as I read that the Quest doesn't like 80Mhz), but I'll try 80Hz again and see if I get better speeds. The spliced option does a ton to reduce latency in SteamVR, so that has to be on. The bitrate settings don't seem to do anything to affect the latency, so I have them maxed.
I play right next to the router. If I could get down to 40ms or so it should be very playable. Don't know what else to do. Interestingly VD now said I was at only 400Mbps. Hmm..

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 16:40 on Jul 5, 2020

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Ok so apparently the Quest is limited to 866Mbps on WiFi according to ggodin (VD dev afaik). I'm getting that according to VD when using 80Hz. People claim to be able to play without problem in WiFi (some even like it more than Link) so there must be some setting or update that I'm missing.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Lemming posted:

The limits you're running into with respect to latency and stuff are probably not mostly due to bandwidth; that's part of how they were able to get the Link to work with USB 2.0.

You can check out this blog post that goes into a lot of detail: https://developer.oculus.com/blog/how-does-oculus-link-work-the-architecture-pipeline-and-aadt-explained/

The main reason you feel latency is not actually going to be as much from the headset itself; the speed you look at the way your head moves through space is going to line up pretty well. The issue, which is significantly, significantly worse for VD over wifi, is the controller pose is basically "old". The applications try to adjust for this as best they can, but it's not a way one trip from PC to quest, it's a consistent round trip. Hand is in one spot in one frame, then the PC sees it, renders the frame, but your hand has already moved, so it tries to predict where your hand will be, but with fast movements it's hard to get that right, and I'm not sure VD tries much at all. The best way to test that out is to just shake your hand really hard, on VD it'll move like crazy, way past where your hands actually are, on Link it'll flip out a significantly smaller amount.

You can't get away from this no matter how good your setup is, for certain faster things VD is just not good enough to get a great experience. For me, Link is good enough for basically anything I want to do, but VD suffers from that latency too much.

Interesting read, thanks for the link. It doesn't really explain why pinarello dogman gets 30ms and I get 80ms at presumably the max bandwidth rate though. I redid my network setup a bit an used the AC68U router as a dedicated access point (wired to proprietary router). The latency reported in VD is the same, but the Longbow game experience was noticeably smoother. Did some chatting on the VR discord and it seems like it could be the fact that I have an AMD gfx card and that the encoding "sucks" for AMD atm.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Lemming posted:

This is probably the key, at the end of the day the reported latency doesn't really matter (it still matters some ofc) for the game feel. Virtual desktop can't entirely get rid of the hand tracking latency, so you basically need to decide if whatever thing you're doing feels good enough to play with it. If it does, great, if not, Link will probably feel pretty good, but now you've got to deal with the cable and everything

Yeah. The Quest really spoils you with being able to play wireless as well.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Isometric Bacon posted:

My issues I was taking about with my AMD card a couple pages back feel like it's performing poorly on the GPU than a latency thing. That said, I haven't really fully tested the AMD for latency yet, since it's on my regular mesh network which gets around 80mhz.

I also have a dedicated AC68U to VR and in the past had been running Virtual Desktop with decent latency (30 to 40) - but this was on my former gaming laptop with a NVIDIA card. I have yet to try this setup with my new AMD PC, which seems to be same regardless of link or VD. (The RT68U / VR setup is in an entirely other room which I need half a day free to migrate everything over to test).

Try turning your other router off and run the AC68 by itself, with steam in offline mode. This will stop any interference. Also set it to wireless N only and 40mhz channel bandwidth.

I'll try this when I got home again. Ran out of time today. Thanks.

Edit: I tried Walking Dead and in that game it was basically the problem that Lemmin described above where the headset itself isn't lagging, but the movement has a noticeable delay. I ended up refunding it as I read that it'll be crossplatform if bought from Oculus store instead of Steam.

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Jul 6, 2020

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
I think there are some people working on 90Hz mods. Forgot the name of the youtube channel though.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
I'm happy to report that I've finally solved the latency problem. Was away for work so couldn't tinker with it, but it was a simple as connecting the ethernet cable to the dedicated router (and I still get internet without a hit to the speed). I'm now at 30ms and the difference is night and day. There is lag compared to the native quest, but it's very minimal and not janky at all.
The Longbow game (which has been my benchmark) now plays better than with link and the stock USB-2 cable and is sooo much easier.

Edit: I'm thinking I should buy Half Life Alyx now that it's on a 25% sale.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

MarcusSA posted:

Yes you should. It’s good. It’s creepy as hell dragging zombies around lol

I bought it. So far it's pretty drat cool and I've not even faced an enemy yet. Seeing combine soldiers in VR suddenly makes them much more intimidating.

Edit: Also giving the "battery pack" mod a go to balance and extend battery life.

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 13:12 on Jul 11, 2020

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
After playing some Alyx and my wife getting super scared from Shattered Lights, having VD working to a satisfactory level really cemented the Quest as a great buy as we now have access to soo much more stuff, yet still have the option of wireless playing. I'm having a hard time imagining playing with a wire.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

rage-saq posted:

No additional content post release. You can beat Superhot VR in ~30 minutes if you know the game moderately well.

That's a bit problem with VR games. Full game price but with content that on a normal PC would cost ½ or 1/3 as much...

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Pierson posted:

If I do badly enough at Beat Saber do I get sent to a retirement home? loving hell.

To be honest, I only find songs fun if they allow me to have fun and dance with/to them instead of looking like a weirdo wildly stabbing at the air. I.e. normal is usually the most fun.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
So I bought Walking Dead and my "Why is there music playing suddenly... WHY IS THERE MUSIC PLAYING SUDDENLY!?" reaction ended up being accurate and I died horribly a few minutes later.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

hhhat posted:

unlreated to war thunder but, how the hell does my headset know where the play area is that i drew in the other room, when i took it into this room (still plugged in, mind you) and sat down at the computer desk?

Wait. still plugged in... is it using IR to map the room with those little sensors on the headset? It could do distance and direction and just memorize a simple floor plan, couldn't it, and when i walked to the other room, it just knew where i was in relation to the last room huh

neat

Facebook spying for the win.

Showed my brother the Eleven Table tennis game (he didn't want to stop playing. He is a sports fan) as well as Super Hot Demo and now he wants to buy a Quest.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Turns out it wasn't Thrill of the Fight demo I played, but that other boxing game that comes with the demo preinstalled on the Quest. I was bending over from being out of breath though, which got me thinking about getting a boxing game for the cardio. Everyone seems to rave about Thrill of the fight, and for $10, it seems like a good deal.
Worth getting?

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Judge Schnoopy posted:

Thrill of the Fight is the realistic version of a more arcade-game Creed. Depends if you want a polished game with more game mechanics designed for fun (Creed) or a more gritty game that challenges you to learn boxing and improve skills on your own (totf).

Personally I really enjoy totf for being so hard. I'm absolutely drenched in sweat and have more than once felt exhausted in my very core after going 3 rounds.

Sounds like totf is right up my street then. Thanks for the input guys.

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 20:05 on Jul 24, 2020

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Do they have proper missions or is it more multiplayer based? Viewed some review that said the AI sucks at the moment and there isn't much to do mission-wise.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

LLSix posted:

Rec Room (sp?)

Laser tag is fun
Has kind of a mini one-shot dungeon dive adventure mod that is pretty fun. Rounds last a half hour tops.

Township Tale is okay, but it crashed too often for me to get in to it

Yeah Rec Room is pretty fun if you can get over the fact that so many kids are running around with expensive rear end VR headsets (unless it's crossplatform with some cheaper ones) being annoying.

MrOnBicycle fucked around with this message at 21:01 on Jul 25, 2020

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
I bought Thrill of the Fight and now my arms have been hurting for 2 days straight, like when you go to the gym and overdo it. GG. 10/10 would buy again.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
I played the intro fight and the second fight after that. Then I did the gym things and fought the zombie (no idea how to win that). My arms are destroyed so I haven't played for a while but I'm looking forward to it. Yes it's fun. It's boxing but without the brain damage.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Without spoilers, what's wrong with it? My wife loves horror games in VR (as long as there is no combat). She is currently loving Layers of Fear and enjoyed (despite the buggyness) A Chair in a Room. I like the Walking Dead game, even if it isn't as much of a horror game. I like that a mistake easily leads to death.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Ok FNaF sounds proper poo poo.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
At the prices or TrackIR I'd just spring for a Quest or something. Can't even compare. I actually build my own free version of track IR using a playstation webcam and a DIY LED headset. Worked great and only cost like $50. No even close to VR though.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
After I finally sorted the WiFi and got to 30ms-ish, playing wirelessly is working very well. It was disgusting before. Obviously not as fast as running it natively on the Quest, but the lag is minimal. I'm someone who stopped playing CSGO on a 60Hz because it was impossible. I also find locking to 60fps instead of 72fps on in the VD settings super noticeable, so wouldn't say I have huge tolerance for jankyness etc. I'm not even considering a cable now as wireless gameplay is amazing.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Turin Turambar posted:

So, what did you do to fix your problem?

Basically stopped using the poo poo ISP router for the home LAN, and instead used a AC68U running freshtomato as an access point, with my PC wired to the AC68U and then using the best free 5GHz channel for my local area. The ISP router which I have to use for WAN access is forwarding it to the AC68U. 5GHz wlan is pretty much dedicated to the Quest, and it's about 4meters from the play area. I pretty much only notice lag when doing very quick moves (which I never do in games). I mean Walking Dead is a game that relies on good lagless tracking (before I fixed the problem, it was super unplayable because I couldn't use the melee weapons). Now it works well every time. I get a slight screen door effect when doing very quick turn (again, nothing I do when playing).

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Someone should make a VR LSAIK / lens operation sim so you all can condition yourself pre-op.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Sucks about the facebook poo poo, but at least we have a 3 year grace period. Will probably buy games on steam instead of Oculus from now on though.

I kinda knew this going in, and I'm the kind of guy running tutanota email, pi-hole, duckgogo etc to limit the tracking done. Hopefully someone jailbreaks it, but in 3 years I've likely upgraded and sold the Quest.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Yeah Deadhalls isn't scary at all.............. Easily worth the free $10 spent. A great game for introducing people to VR horror without long tutorials etc.

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?

Marxalot posted:

Same so fair enough.


Taking this moment to highly recommend Thrill of the Fight and having a couple extra face gaskets again.

I bought one of those silicon covers that slips over the original cloth one. More comfortable and wipes off super easy. I still haven't had time to give TotF another go after I got destroyed by it my very first time. Been working too much as well. :smith:

MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Walking dead is good. I'm going to try to find some time to play it again this weekend.

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MrOnBicycle
Jan 18, 2008
Wait wat?
Flashlight aiming the gun in Alyxs works with no problem using the Quest controls at least.

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