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KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Took the dive, ordered the Index + knuckles controllers. Guess this means that my old Vive wands can be used as trackers now, though I'm not familiar with what games can take advantage of that.

Does anyone know if the specialty lens inserts that you can buy using your eyeglass prescription can transfer from the Vive to the Index? I ordered a set for my Vive and I use them 100% of the time. If I have to order a new set for the Index so be it, would be neat though if they are transferable.

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KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Replaced my 1080 Ti with an RTX 2080 Ti, also replaced my OG Vive and wands with an Index and knuckles (the shipping box straight up still calls them 'knuckles') and let me tell you about the difference: freakin' huge

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



And I'm going to give it a shot, normally I just use free joystick movement.

Also the Vive controllers make H3 a lot more fun for me, the way you can manipulate guns and the world using your fingers besides just the triggers is rad.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



"Big YouTubers" is what I have my wife call me when she wants my attention when I'm surfing VR waves

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



OctaviusBeaver posted:

I like the idea of the hot dogs vs human targets but I wish they had some weight to them and didn't flop around like they're made of balloons.

*Me sneaking around in Take and Hold, coming up on some enemies*

"Why hot dogs?"

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



And here I am playing VR far more since I got the Index, I think the thing is fantastic.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Lemming posted:

Uh, so what? Needing to explain something isn't inherently bad, it's trying to be a combat game with a lot of depth. That means there are going to be things going on that aren't immediately obvious. Beat Saber is a more arcade style game, they're going for different things. My point is that discounting large swaths of a game isn't reasonable.

You didn't say the game was bad, you did say it's boring. I think most people would consider "boring" to be "bad." If the game's not for you, it's not for you, nothing wrong with that.

It's OK if people don't like the game

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Zaphod42 posted:

Reminder, there are like 3 portal VR games, and they're all 10 minutes long. Don't get too hype just because "half-life".

"Flagship" kinda means a bit more than a demo. I'm optimistic.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



El Grillo posted:

Thank gently caress, Valve might actually release a game.

...oh poo poo I jinxed it sorry guys.

Could be set before HL2, for sure. I wouldn't be surprised, either. Always seemed like they couldn't figure out what came next (despite that ex-Valve writer posting his version of the story resolution ages ago).

I reckon it's seriously big for VR if they do follow through on this however. Could really bring over a bunch of hardcore PC gamers who've so far refused to touch VR (no matter all the (legitimate) bitterness about how poo poo Valve have been for the past ~years, i wouldn't expect that to actually translate into lack of interest in the game, nerds gonna jump on this nerd crack)

You know how the new Corvette is mid-engine now? And how a bunch of boomers are pissed as hell?
Literally the same thing happening with this Valve VR Half-Life game right now and its hilarious how mirrored the situations are.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



I am really enjoying this new "VR IS A GIMKICK AND FAD AND I HATE IT" resurgence, totally unironically.

Boneworks looks incredible too!

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Combat Pretzel posted:

There's no reason why you can't make a game work in both VR and on the flatscreen.



I guess, besides the entire control system and UI and wait a second that isn't easy at all

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Going from an OG Vive to the Index, the Index controllers were the giantest hugest leap are you jokers kidding me? The Vive wands were OK but now that I have the Index I can confidently say that the Vive wands loving suck.

Simple poo poo like not having to hold on to the controller (because it is strapped to your hand) is huge, the finger tracking is a little gimmicky but it stuff like HHH (or H3, hard to decide what to call it now that Half-Life is back) I use it all the time to hold on to objects, including guns, magazines and ammo. The Index is fantastic too and very easily much better than the original Vive, but the controllers are what really sold me on it once I got them in my hands.

Half-Life being back is rad as gently caress you guys. I am excite.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Zaphod42 posted:

If I already have VIVE tracking stations, is there any reason to get the new Index ones?

I guess if I want to be able to sell my VIVE or give it to a friend then I should... although you can always buy them a la carte for the same price so maybe I'll just buy the headset and controllers for now.

I went from the original Vive to the Index and kept my original Lighthouses. I still have my original Vive too because now what am I supposed to do with it as I'm keeping the lighthouses? I thought maybe I could use the Vive wands and FOR foot tracking but that's ultragimmick zone.
Just keep your original Lighthouses. They are exactly in the same place they were when I installed them.

KakerMix fucked around with this message at 20:37 on Nov 21, 2019

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Turin Turambar posted:

I wonder how Touch + the grip with elastic bands mods that I've seen some people use so they are 'tied' to your hand compare against the Index controllers.

Wouldn't hurt to try, not having to hold on to the wands was the biggest thing I liked about the Knuckles. Beyond that though the position your hands have on the Knuckles vs. the Vive wands is also a pretty big deal.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Fuzz posted:

You did it backwards, mang

I meant use the Vive wands as foot trackers IN ADDITION to using the Index controllers. The controllers were always a thing I wanted, even if I didn't get the headset.


Cicero posted:

Probably means that there's no grip button like on the Touch controllers.

The haptic feedback of gripping hard works decently enough imho.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



That there is debate about what is better, OG Touch controllers or the Index Knuckles really says it all. They are both a hell of a lot better than the Vive wands :v:

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Skyarb posted:

Ehhh I view it as sunk cost or change is scary type arguments. The index controllers are really really weird at first. Its hard to train your brain to "let go" of the controller. But once you adapt other controllers just feel like controllers, where as this is just an extension of my hand.

I absolutely adore the Index Knuckles so I'm with you there, but it isn't fair for me to compare them to the Touch controllers because I haven't ever used them. I know people say the original Touch controllers are better than the nu-Touch controllers on the Rift S, but like I said, no personal experience with them. The debate between the two being even for each set means they are both pretty dang good.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Taintrunner posted:

Keep the Rift S, itís a great headset. Hand tracking isnít going to end up being much of anything.

I have my doubts on that. The hero headset of Alyx is obviously going to be the Index.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Taintrunner posted:

Alyx is compatible with all SteamVR headsets. Finger tracking wonít add much to the experience.

I bet it will, won't be required but it makes a world of different to me in Hotdogs, Horseshoes and Handgrenades. Subtle to most people probably.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Who gives a poo poo though, honestly?

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



repiv posted:

holy moley that must be a lot of $1000 headsets



You can buy each part separately, and I bet they are including people like me that bought parts and kept older ones. I kept my old lighthouses from my Vive.

That and Valve can put whatever they want on the top of that list, just because it says its a top seller doesn't mean it actually is, you know?

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Ah yeah they are sperate items, you guys are right. And going by raw $ amount probably helps but I still suspect list manipulation going on.


Combat Pretzel posted:

There's quite some salt in the Steam discussion section of HL:A. poo poo like "Valve opening themselves to class action suits", because VR-only is apparently discrimination.

I can only imagine. Even in the threads here on SA outside of this safe space is full of stuff from the mundane (VR is 3DTV) to the insane (VR is 3DTV and NOT real)

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



hatty posted:

I'm excited for the new half life and want to eventually replace the Vive wand I smashed into my wall a few months ago. The index controllers seem pricey but they play nice with the 1st gen satellites right? Should I just spring for a quest and rip these satellites out of my wall?

You will undoubtedly have a better experience keeping your Vive and getting the knuckles with Alyx. You already have the lighthouses, just keep em' up.


I had a Vive and kept the lighthouses exactly where they were and just got the Index headset and the knuckles. No problems at all.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Neddy Seagoon posted:

The only unique aspect to the controllers is the grip bar and finger detection, and those don't really do much in games beyond "wee, lookit my fingers wiggle!". Or flipping people off in multiplayer.


I mean between this and Alyx that finger jam might be a bit more apparent.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Beat Saber is dead.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Neddy Seagoon posted:

Half-Life Alyx is aimed square at a shitload of ravenous fans who've been wanting anything Half-Life for over a decade, but it's still probably a story-driven single-player game like its predecessors. When it's over, it's done and people move on like any other AAA title.

I really don't think Alyx is really aimed at anyone, more so that people at Valve were like 'man VR is cool as poo poo' and hosed around till a new Half-Life game was taking shape. They talk about it like Anton talks about HHH, just loving around seeing what works. People can rip on Valve for everything they gently caress up, but that they are Valve means they can afford to be like weird indie kids without stockholders breathing down their necks. Plus, ~modding tools~ is a part of the announcement for Half-Life Alyx. Wonder what sort of multi-player code is in the SDK.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Almost Smart posted:

I think I want a VR system for Christmas, but I'm kind of torn on what to get between a Rift S and Quest (I'd opt for an Index if I didn't have to gently caress around with base stations, but alas). A lot of online reviews say the S is redundant now that the Quest can connect to the PC, but I'm really only interested in using it tethered and it sounds like the S still offers a superior user experience in this regard. Should I just hold off until Valve refreshes the Index with inside out tracking?

"loving around" with the Lighthouses means different things. Are you like, in an apartment or a really low hobbit hole or something? I installed my lighthouses once, in 2016 (I think? Long time ago) and haven't thought about them since.

"Oh you need these extra things to track the headset and controllers" and people think it's this huge ordeal where you need 50 ft high walls and a laser array or something, rather than a couple of boxes that sit in the upper corners of your room, plugged into a wall socket, alone. Inside out tracking is more convenient but it is objectively worse at tracking. There is a reason Index uses Lighthouses still.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Yeah I only turn irl when in VR and never press to turn and my OG vive still works great, even though it's the worse thick 3 wire job.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Alternatively PCVR not being the Quest's primary design goal makes sense to preclude it from being recommended as one. It can just be because it isn't a PCVR headset, it wasn't primarily designed as one, doesn't come with the hardware to make it one.

Like this thread is pretty console-war like a lot of the time and everyone that takes part in it knows where they stand, me included. It is OK to talk about things without trying to fish out some ulterior motive.

That motive being that Facebook is complete and utter trash :getin:

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Will you two just kiss and make out and record a video and send it to hotmom6969@aol.com as a joke it's someone I know and DEFINITELY not me haha

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



very brave of facebook choosing the c: drive


very very brave

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Doctor w-rw-rw- posted:

Funny you should say this as I happen to have once been friends with the engineer that implemented the install mechanism. IIRC (it’s been a few years), Steam’s way of doing it is actually pretty insecure and requires a bunch of permissions. They spent a lot of time making the path configurable, but I imagine it’s not easy or possible to test all games’ installers with all configurations. Steam basically throws their hands up and says “eh the security is good enough”. Imagine people letting Facebook say “security is good enough, who’ll target them?”.

Also this engineer tried very hard to pay attention to criticism so the abusive internet language directed towards “Facebook” ended up being targeted to them because they read most of it, and caused them to break down, burn out, and quit instead of them continuing to work on it.

So that’s why, you loving prick.

Nobody gives a hot gently caress about your engineering friend taking criticism about facebook personally

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



So, how about that Left for Dead VR rumour

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



WaterIsPoison posted:

Devs read everything, good and bad, but honestly only the bad stuff really sticks with you. It turns out when you really enjoy working on a product you love, criticism, no matter how correct/incorrect, will be 90% of what the engineers see. I guarantee you that any possible complaint y'all can make is known and has been discussed/argued/fought over multiple times. Often times there are a lot of really really difficult trade offs that have to be made in order to actually ship a product.

"won't someone think of the poor gigantic multi-billion corporations?"

No, but maybe you should be a bit more thoughtful of the actual workers behind the products.

How do you know the people being critical aren't being thoughtful about the actual workers? You don't, which means telling people to be more thoughtful is meaningless if the workers are going to take negative criticism personally. If someone front-loads a complaint with "I'm not blaming the workers BUT" that won't change a thing. The cycle will continue, 90% being seen by engineers, etc etc.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.




One person isn't all people, maybe you should separate the the individual posters from the overall forum before you pass judgment #wow #thoughtful


treat posted:

VR inherently means it's an entirely different kind of game but at this point I'd even be stoked for a non-VR L4D3 that does little to change the formula.

If we are getting Left 4 Dead VR
1. I'll be stoked
2. The people pissed about Half-Life Alyx are going to go nuclear

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Nemesis Of Moles posted:

If the entire of valves new wave of releases, this long after the last time they released a proper game, is entirely VR focused, that would be enormous

It would fit exactly with what Valve would do though. They already announced a new Half-Life game, after so long, and are making it exclusive to VR and aren't even attempting a non-VR version. I know we in this thread know why (because you would be making TWO games not converting one) but just on the face of it we're already passed absurd.

If they also have a Left 4 Dead VR game then that would be more expected than a surprise. I would be kind of surprised if there is a VR Portal game though, if only because when Valve talks about Alyx they specifically call out why they didn't go with Portal when examining what options they had to VR.

EDIT Oh man Boneworks real dang soon

KakerMix fucked around with this message at 05:58 on Dec 10, 2019

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Zaphod42 posted:

Are you actually worried about spoilers for ... Boneworks?

I am yeah, why not? It looks great.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Jack Trades posted:

Use virtual crouching IN ADDITION to your real crouching to climb 2-3 meters tall ledges. That trick makes climbing real smooth and easy. I'm pretty sure that's the intended way.

Yeah this is what made me go "OH I GET IT", virtually crouching to lift my legs up onto things.

KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Lemming posted:

This really bothers me, it makes no sense that crouching IRL isn't sufficient and you have to press an extra button to clamber over stuff

Because there is no way to track your feet you have to have some way to tell the game "my legs are up" besides using the ground. If you are climbing over something and in the air the game doesn't know what you want to do with your feet since you're off the ground.

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KakerMix
Apr 8, 2004

8.2 M.P.G.



Lemming posted:

I know the reason why, it makes no sense to me that they didn't work on an extra thing like "if your feet are not touching the ground and you're crouched, tuck up a little extra so you can get over an edge." If you put your head on the ground, you can see your feet pull up enough, but now you can't reach further down in order to push yourself over the edge. If you hold jump, you can see your legs tuck a little further when your hands are touching the ground and that lets you get up and over.

My point is that in a game where they are trying to be as realistic as possible, making it so certain moves are only possible by pressing buttons feels weird and bad. I initially thought it wasn't possible to vault yourself up over edges because I had virtual crouch disabled, because why would I use that if I plan on crouching in real life?

Yeah. If I had my way I'd make it so your body is a bit more forgiving on if it can clip through things. It already can, even if poo poo gets wobbly and weird when you do it, just make it so physics bends a bit more for the body you can't control outside of a joystick movement.
I'm not sure if I care that I have a full body in Boneworks, vs if there was just floating hands. Lots of times I'm bending over something to look over an edge and the game assumes I'm crouching because it doesn't know where my feet are. Kinda gets in the way.

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