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Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Jokerpilled Drudge posted:

if its an mmo it will suck hth

Someone will get it right someday.

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Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
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Buglord

I feel like an actual game wouldn't outsell beat saber. Beat saber is the game you buy a VR helmet to show to everyone you show your vr helmet too. Like someday there will be some intricate complex MMO or something but everyone will still buy beat saber as the flashy easy to grasp music game you can hand to your nephew or girlfriend or whatever. Like everyone that owns any sort of Vr just eventually ends up buying beat saber at some point just for that in a way a real game will always only be bought by people that want to play that game.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Prediction: 3D porn plus a lot of people getting 3D helmets being kids is going to raise a generation of people that have a fetish for women being scaled weird. Like deviant art is going to be 95% women who are way too big or way too small (instead of being like 40% that)

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

explosivo posted:

I think RE8 already got people most of the way there from the sound of it

I was reading the 1884 book "A rebours" recently and there is a section he lusts after a big muscular acrobat woman because she is like a hercules that could 'crush him into jelly"

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

I do watch some subtitled stuff 2d in VR because my eyes are garbage and there is only one chair near the tv that is close enough for me to read the screen comfortably. So I can just go in vr and make the screen huge and a foot from my eyeballs.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Big screen is less actually good and more fun to watch pirated movies while randos yell at the screen and lobbies that seem like 10 years older than the group chat demographic(but still pretty bad)

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

m.hache posted:

So I'm looking forward to Zenith and just assumed I'd have to get it on PCVR but it looks like it's on the Oculus store too. Any difference/reason to not get it on the oculus? I like the idea of being to move around with my headset

The graphics between the two are extremely different:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G9l1CZSLM5w


It's actually interesting how they did it, in some places it's just "turn the graphics slider down for the quest" but you can tell at other points they went to a totally different art style. Which is actually kinda neat. Like it's the same game, playing together but the PC version goes with more realistic shaders and the quest version uses more cartoony style on some things.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Man, I kinda don't like skyrim to begin with and playing it in VR is more awkward than fun but jesus christ with some 200+ "ultimate VR" mod pack it really does feel uniquely like a videogame from the far future in a way other VR games don't.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

beep by grandpa posted:

I'd like to hear a little bit more about your experience with this if/whenever you're up to it. I've never played skyrim ever but testimonies like these always grab my interest and might be something I'd check out

I played it all through in 2011 when it leaked pre-release and you could be a cool kid with a stolen copy like 3 weeks before it came out, I always kinda hated it but did play it pre-any patches with no DLC and no mods.

I've put 10 hours in the last few days in VR and I'll say I still kind of don't like it as a videogame, but as a VR ~experience~ it's leaps and bounds ahead of anything else in VR. I caught myself at work taking a bathroom break solely so I could go on a wiki and look up where I could buy a certain spell because I was thinking so much about playing the game when I got home.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

PAK CHOOIE UFF

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

some good skyrim VR content: jumping your way down a mountain.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
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Buglord

Manager Hoyden posted:

Skyrim VR is... Not great. Even with the FUS modpack. I was hoping for something along the lines of Blade and Sorcery but instead it's more like a VR tech demo laid on top of regular Skyrim. Also it looks terrible - I think it's the lowest resolution game I've played so far and I cannot for the life of me figure out how to change it

Did you follow the instructions while installing FUS? it has some steps you have to do to activate the reshaders and rendering stuff. It looks janked up if you skip the steps.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

house of the dad posted:

I understand a lot of the complaints about Zenith but I'm still really enjoying myself. It's an incredibly simple game but it's a fun world to run around in.

It kinda feels like zenith is a pretty bad videogame but just the whole idea of a VR MMO is so compelling on it's own it doesn't really matter if it's sub 2002 wow in actual gameplay. Just an MMO in VR is the gameplay people want.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

I feel like the first few times you use VR it's very "real", your brain interprets it as a real place and in the first few hours you will do the stuff like 'try to put your real hand on a virtual table" and get really dizzy from a fast motion. Like you have a really strong sense of place and being there.

I do think over time your brain does go more and more "oh yeah, this is a screen". Like the first few hours of playing direct motion skyrim I felt like I was going to puke nonstop because I had a distinct feeling it was ME moving, that if I went up a hill I should tip backwards and that I was going so fast when I ran. like 30 hours in and I don't get sick anymore but I also don't feel connected to the movement as much, it just feels like scrolling in a videogame, my brain has disconnected it from feeling like it's a real thing happening. Which is good and also sad.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

lowwayman posted:

Is there a good breakdown somewhere on why the Quest 2 is best available VR setup right now and how exactly everything that is good about it works?

-It's extremely cheap

-It's got optics and screens as good or better than a lot of helmets that cost twice as much

-the controllers are above average and better than most vr controllers (worse than only the truly top of the line ones)

-It's stand alone and has it's own game store of games it can run without a computer.

-it can also plug into a computer anyway or even stream over wifi to be cord free computer gaming.


Basically it's a 299 headset that is better than every headset that costs less than 2000 dollars, but also is a stand alone thing where you can play beatsaber without any computer at all while still being able to use it to play steam games, without any wires or lighthouses or anything external.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

null_pointer posted:

Hearing all the love for the quest 2, in here, I'm starting to feel that my Index was not the best purchasing decision :smith:

Index came out June 28, 2019, Quest 2 came out October 13, 2020

VR is still new enough the newest thing is always likely to be the best one.

Like PSVR 2 will be a cheap introductory level headset in a year that has eye tracking, where right now that is a top end feature you can barely get in a few top end headsets. You just aren't going to buy anything that stays top of the line very long

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

gandlethorpe posted:

Can Zenith be played asocially? I play GW2, and even though I'm in a goon guild, I prefer spending 99% of the time roaming the open world solo. I like fleeting moments with other players in world events, but not forced partying.

It lets you, none of the apparent content is very hard. It really does seem the main appeal is that it's VR chat plus some light stuff to do. The combat is all fine, but nothing super interesting or groundbreaking, the fun is stuff like the fact that if you want to give someone a food buff you can't just hand them food or do any sort of "USE" command, you have to like, hand feed them and put the food in their mouth which is a very funny game system.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Inzombiac posted:

No, it's very light and simple on content. If it were a flat-screen game, no one would play it.

Melee is fine but is the worst sword fighting in VR I've experienced.

This exactly, if it was an MMO on a computer no one would buy it. If it was a single player VR game no one would play it.

A VR MMO though is still just novel enough I am having enough fun to justify the fairly low price. But it's not more than that right now.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

TIP posted:

I think you're comparing AAA games with games that are mostly made by tiny teams and solo devs

Lots of indie games look stunning though.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
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Buglord

njsykora posted:

I bought Zenith and ran down an entire Quest battery charge playing it.

Like an hour and 45 minutes?

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Inzombiac posted:

Skyrim VR (with the FUS mod pack) adds a ton of additional magic options and functionality.

Blade and Sorcery magic is a lot of fun and modding the game is extremely simple.
Grab the Earth magic mod and become Toph from Avatar!

Skyrim vr with fus really makes the inventory system the best part of the game. Skyrim has always sucked for menus but there being like eight competing equipment add ons in that thing is legitimately great.

Like casting spells with in game runes then also with button holding gestures then also having the floating cloud menu but then also being able to glue weapons to my body and then pick them off.

Itís such a little thing but itís been my favorite vr experience somehow, just having like a million weapons and spells in like five different systems and legitimately getting good at whipping out big combos of using a bunch of stuff super fast.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Man VR Emu is the coolest thing ever made except every single action is like 20% more annoying to do than it should be.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

TIP posted:

I feel like nothing feels truly huge in VR ever since they started setting the focus plane to 2 meters on headsets

back on the first rift dev kit you focused to infinity and huge stuff felt properly gigantic to me, unfortunately it meant that anything too close to you was uncomfortable to look at

so 2 meters is probably the best trade-off with current tech but I'm very excited for varifocal to show up in consumer devices because I think it's what's needed for huge stuff to feel properly epic

Wanna talk about VR messing with scale? I got gal gun VR for cheap with some other games, Japan being horny for school girls is really gross on it's own but it's just kinda how all japanese media is since forever, but god playing it in VR is some sort of nightmare where the girls are all like 4 feet tall and then during gameplay the way they scale in levels are like 3 feet tall sometimes so the already gross "highschool girls who must be like 14 if you think about what ages mean" end up additionally strongly registering as some sort of hosed up toddler. Extreme uninstall speedrun

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

I feel like years and years of media have built up "fantasy MMO" as what VR is. Everything from sword art online to kim possible had VR being a fantasy RPG. I think pretty much 90% of media makes putting a VR helmet mean going to some dungeons and dragons thing.

I think zenith is a neat little game, it's fine for the price, but I think a LOT of people bought it on the idea that it feels like the whole world is holding it's breath waiting for whatever becomes world of warcraft VR, where that will be the real start of VR. like even if zenith isn't that game, I think everyone will buy anything heading towards that one game that all media has shown VR as.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

like if you think about it (ignoring the murder part) SSO wouldn't actually be a fun game. none of the weird vague fictional games from media specifically would be.

But so so much media over the years have cribbed a very specific "you will put on a VR helmet then you will be a barbarian and a wizard and the girl with be an archer and you will stand in a market and the ground will be yellow" that I think everyone just wants that game now. I think if people got it it wouldn't really fill the dreams projected on it, but I still think anything that even hints at being that will outsell anything else until people get that game.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Jokerpilled Drudge posted:

pretty sure .hack as depicted in the show would be a great mmo but I am not holding my breath at all. Zenith had a big marketing push via streamers and reviewers, that might be where people are getting this idea that some thought it would be the next thing

I feel like .hack was the exact same game as sword art online, I feel like every single fake MMO is that same basic game. It's like ultima online gameplay, sort of final fantasy dungeons and dragons aesthetic, then extremely unrealistic amounts of player characters being most of the NPCs and the concept of people being adventurers being a seemingly smaller part of the population while most people like, bake bread or else are part of guilds that have most people being castle guards or something.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

I think a lot of games struggle with the massively multiplayer part. Most MMORPGs kinda could be reworked to be a multiplayer game with a lobby and not change much.

Minecraft is the most "hey, combat exists, but just do whatever" and you have a bunch of people that play for hundreds of hours and never really engage significantly in combat. but I think massively multiplayer minecraft would be hard. I mean at a technical level but also at the level that things like the hermitcraft servers where everyone is building towns and cities and being merchants and inventors and stuff really requires that being it's own server and not touching the servers of people that wanna just break stuff or don't care about farming.

Like it would devolve into those anarchy servers where the whole ground is just floating blocks after a few days, or would have a bunch of stuff the game lets you do but would be constantly buzzing with rules of people telling you not to do anything except play in a super specific way. Like it has to be not massively multiplayer to work.

The guy role playing as a baker would have to be on a server with people that want to role play as a baker, or else it's going to be some guy minmaxing bread strats at bread level 99 making it not fun to be a level 25 baker, or just people walking in and using their power washer on your bread nonstop to make it fly around.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
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Buglord

NRVNQSR posted:

Not Fantasy and not VR, but A Tale in the Desert has been ticking over fine for almost 20 years now as a 3D MMORPG with no combat and no adventuring. I don't imagine the devs are ever going to do a VR version of it but there's no reason the same game structure wouldn't work in a VR MMO.

I feel like second life was also that. Like you did most of the crafting outside the game in real art programs, but it was basically a crafting based game.

(I think second life also highlights that if you let people build what they want what some groups want may dominate and drive out people that want to not have that)

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
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Buglord

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

You could do a full 3D video that you can pan around using a metric poo poo ton of cameras in a dome shape, but I feel like nowadays you could probably use slightly less than a poo poo ton and fill in the gaps of different angles with AI. You know, maybe!

I feel like for a concert specifically you have a lot of latitude to capture some stuff for real then fill in the rest with whatever crazy special effects you want. Like no one on earth would complain if some concert had the singer in 3d from a few real cameras then the rest of the stage was a thumper background or an earthbound battle or something mixed with rendered plants or something crazy.

The idea of going to a VR concert and it just being a lame 3D recording seems worse than anything else you could do in VR.

Like you can name everything wrong with the fortnite concerts but fortnite kinda got the general right idea for what a digital concert should be

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wYeFAlVC8qU

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord


yikes "According to third-party Steam user activity, it only managed a max of 846 users at launch on Steam, going down to a mere 111 two months later. When the game launched on Quest in 2019 (including cross-play), it only managed to attract 533 Steam users concurrently."

I can see why they would stop support. I always know VR is a small ecosystem but man it is SMALL small.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
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Buglord

Organza Quiz posted:

I played it on Quest 1 and found it *extremely* physically uncomfortable to read the small text in it - I don't usually notice the screen door effect when playing games but it was really bad for reading in that game. I wonder if that also stopped other people?

I think text in VR is uniquely hard.

For most scenes I think your brain is okay with the VR effect being generally close enough. With text I think your eyes want to so specifically focus on it but eye focus doesn't do anything in VR so you end up having to hold a weird far focus to read nearby text and it gets actually physically uncomfortable.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
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Buglord

Shinjobi posted:

Anyone with first hand experience on zenith? I admit I'm curious

Itís a bad video game that no one would notice or play if it was 2d, but the vr mmo thing really is novel and itís fun enough itís worth it for the price.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
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Buglord

BrainDance posted:

People keep saying that "if it was 2d" thing but I don't think that's fair, about any VR game. Cuz, it's not 2d, VR is a different medium and different things work in it. A lot of great VR games wouldn't be all that great without VR, and I don't think that's because the games are bad but because different things work.

Eh, I think people are way more meaning it's a primitive game that has very heavy "my first unity project dot exe" and does not match modern standards for an MMO in most ways, but as the only example of a VR MMO currently really out it's kind of able to capitalize of being the best in it's field without really being very well done. Like it is first to market on a very fun type of game, but is largely quite half baked as a game (although it at least feels like it has developers with vision of what they are trying for instead of being a soulless asset flip)

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

beep by grandpa posted:

are we really arguing that a vr game would not be as enjoyable if it were non-vr in the vr thread

I don't think anyone is saying that.

I think people are saying that VR is still in a rough formative time. Most games aren't fully baked games. Most are short or buggy or primitive or unfinished or lacking features or otherwise feel much more like tech demos than fully complete games.

Like zenith is neat, but it's neat because it's in VR. If you are just talking about it as an MMO it's kinda more like something like ragnarok online than FF14 in gameplay. It's a good VR game because VR games kinda get a pass to be a little stinky right now because VR is still hard to do well.

People are basically saying "This game is good, but remember I mean good for the lower standards of VR, this game would be seen as unacceptably low quality by the normal standards for games"

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

flavor.flv posted:

Alyx isn't as good a game without vr, and hl2 isn't as good if you take out the physics engine, and portal is just mediocre if you take out the portal gun, and if you let your ice cream melt it isn't a very refreshing beverage

If you took the portal gun out of portal it would still be a masterclass of writing, voice work, visual style, game humor. Half life 2 without physics would have sold very well I'm sure as a standard shooter of the time.

Lots of games are very good on a lot of metrics.

VR games tend to do the VR thing then get the rest of the game off the unity asset store. A VR game can be fun, dicking around in blade and sorcery is really fun, but it's hard to pretend it is nearly as well made as even a bottom of the barrel standard game. Outside of being fun because it's VR.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
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Buglord

Zet posted:

I feel like y'all are talking about VR games/differences similar to when the Wii came out and everyone tried to shoehorn in motion controls.

I think it's funny the wii kinda soured everyone so bad on motion control it basically ceased to exist for a decade, then VR started to get big again and it turns out motion control is super good now. Like the jump from wiimote to quest controller is night and day and it's funny how the wii poisoned the whole idea of motion control so much barely any of the intermediate steps exist in products.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Manager Hoyden posted:

I feel like this is a weird thing to be arguing. A game doesn't have to be universally good in every theoretical medium and control scheme to be a good game.

Wii Sports is one of the best games of all time and absolutely needs the motion controls to be good. Yes it would be terrible if it was played on a controller with "press X to bowl a strike" as the only interface. The game is the motion, not the action.

I don't think anyone is saying that.

People are saying like.... Zenith is an MMO with about 9 hours of content, no real writing or voiced characters, very basic quests, some art work but a lot of asset store generics outside the first zone, fairly poor PS3 level graphics, many bugs and crashes, a lot of placeholder looking text, systems with parts blatantly missing, no customization, etc. It largely feels like a pre-alpha game.

But people, me included, are still positive about the game, because VR is still new enough just doing anything is inherently fun. It boots up and is VR so it get an A+ for fun, but it's clearly not actually an actual good game compared to any other standard. you should buy zenith today and you will have fun, but you should know it's a bad videogame by videogame standards and in it's current state is only fun because it's VR, not because of mechanics or story or polish or anything like that. It will either have to evolve to be better or will lose appeal as VR becomes less new and it is not the only show in town for an MMO.

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

Doctor_Fruitbat posted:

And even where motion controls do exist, no-one loving uses them. PlayStation has included 6DOF for three generations now, and still nothing uses it. Even with the Switch out and several high profile games using gyro aiming, literally every single person I've spoken to IRL isn't aware of any of it. It is absolutely infuriating, and I'm hoping that VR can start changing some minds.

It's funny, every console motion tracking thing is still a twitchy jumpy mess. Some of the games are fun but the technology just seemed barely functional. Then VR came out and motion tracking is so good you barely even remember it's happening. It's just baked in that your controllers track perfectly with near zero jitter.

I really think the wii burned everyone out so bad on motion tracking the whole industry froze on basically the same level of technology then never revisited it again, then VR needed to figure out their own tracking stuff and were like "oh yeah, this actually got better in the last ten years, everyone just forgot to check"

Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

I hate that quest hand tracking works so well but is totally useless because the little beam is at a fixed narrow angle. I keep starting to use it while watching some full screen video because it transitions after a few minutes not touching the controllers but then end up grabbing the controller to do anything because itís wrist breaking to point at the controls at the bottom because it wonít let you just point down with hands

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Owlofcreamcheese
May 22, 2005
Probation
Can't post for 4110 days!


Buglord

raditts posted:

Squandering opportunities at innovation is what Microsoft does best!

I was just thinking yesterday about whether there would be any applicable use for Kinect with VR, like if it would be possible for someone to write up some third party software to integrate full body tracking or something like that. I guess even if they could, who the gently caress still has a Kinect anymore besides the one I've got collecting dust in a bin somewhere.

The oculus development kit has had inaccessible options for full body tracking for a while. Where it seems to exist but is inactive. And seems to be based on the idea of standing in front of a large mirror so the camera can see you, which sounds like it would probably be a thing they could get to work fine, but then leave inactive because it's kinda stupid.

Someone make a game where one person is in the room controlling the body and the other person can control the eyes and the hands.

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