Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Post
  • Reply
Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Episode 7:


- I should have figured out earlier that there was something seriously fishy about Cal, and their vague story. But I don't think I could've foreseen him being Doctor Manhattan in disguise.

- Should have also figured out that the Cyclops people had something to do with Dr. Manhattan, even though they were around decades before Dr. Manhattan came around. But I'm pretty sure we're heading for some wibbly wobbly timey wimey stuff anyway.

- On that note, I can't help but read "[Sister Night] does look like you" as a deeper comment than "yeah, she does have black skin". If this wraps around to Angela being a clone of the original Sister Night, or traveling in time to be Sister Night in the 50s or 60s that's gonna be a thing. With the revelation that Lady Trieu's daughter is actually her cloned grandmother, that wouldn't even be that shocking at this point.

- It was heart breaking when Angela's freshly discovered grandmother keeled over dead just as she was about to rescue Angela from the Vietnamese sweat shop. But it also does reveal that Angela's line about just randomly happening to come to Tulsa was 100% bullshit, which it obviously was from the beginning but hey, proof is proof.

- Elephant, huh. OK then!

- So I guess Veidt's stuff is happening in the past, or a parallel universe, or some place where time doesn't work right, because they had a 365 day trial for him while in the rest of the show only a few days passed.


Also big thanks to the dudes just dropping loving unmarked spoilers in the thread at a time when a bunch of people are watching the show for the first time.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



Episodes 8 and 9:


- Well I really liked the very ending. Cutting just before they revealed whether or not Angela can walk on water now was great. Just leave it at that.

- But if she DOES have Doctor Manhattan's powers, it'd be interesting to see what she did with them, considering how she openly expressed disapproval at the big things Manhattan had done.

- Overall I really liked the show. Some of the mysteries fell a bit flat, like Veidt being on Europa just because Dr Manhattan sent him there upon request, and the Game Warden just being one of the Dr Manhattan Babies he'd asked to act as his adversary, but the big parts worked fine, and I liked how it was layer upon layer upon layer of people thinking they'd been playing someone, only to realize they'd been getting played all along.

- Can't say I hated the idea of a bunch of old rich racists getting nuked to dust, while the mega-racist was turned into sludge.

- A small touch I quite liked: as Angela & co are walking away from the theater, the remaining letters on the theater's sign read "Dr M".

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro



Thanks! This thread got bitter af and this was a breath of fresh air!

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019







Der Shovel posted:

Also big thanks to the dudes just dropping loving unmarked spoilers in the thread at a time when a bunch of people are watching the show for the first time.

Vader is Luke's father.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



Don't read threads for shows that are already completed if you don't want to read spoilers.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012




Oven Wrangler

How about don't be a dick?

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


just gonna go right back into it aren't u thread

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



Spoilers.

Only registered members can see post attachments!

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Does anyone watch The Matrix and go "whoa I wasn't expecting that" when it turns out Neo is the one? Who the gently caress was it going to be? Switch?

ruddiger
Jun 3, 2004

Crook County

If you like the show, it’s a GOOD thing that it’s finding a second audience, why try to discourage that by posting unmarked spoilers after someone said they’re watching it for the first time and then getting indignant when called out on it?

If you don’t like it, why are you still in this thread 165 page in?

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


It's just one person, maybe making a mistake but then being an rear end in a top hat. Anything left to talk about?

Der Shovel
Dec 26, 2003

*blep*



I mean it's not a huge deal, and I get that for a show that aired last year the general atmosphere re: spoilers is a lot looser, but it was still kind of sucky to be watching the show for the first time and get a "character X dies in episode Y" spoiler out of the blue.

One thing I super loved about the show that doesn't need spoiler tags was that the sound design and especially the soundtrack were amazing. The theme is a god drat banger, but pretty much all the music Trent Reznor composed for the show had this amazing mix of industrial and synthwave elements.

Dude should compose more music.

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



TychoCelchuuu posted:

Does anyone watch The Matrix and go "whoa I wasn't expecting that" when it turns out Neo is the one? Who the gently caress was it going to be? Switch?

Also, "Dil is a man" is probably not an accurate description of the character.

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



PeterCat posted:

Also, "Dil is a man" is probably not an accurate description of the character.

No. It's almost like there are words now to describe such a person's identity in ways that are affirming and respectful.


Agreed on the soundtrack. I loved this show in general until the last episode, but the score killed it so goddamn hard all the way through. And it involved one of the best Bowie covers I've ever heard.

Which is remarkable, because HBO also did another stellar Bowie cover this year (a violin cover of "Space Oddity" in Westworld S3.) Between Ramin Djawadi and Reznor/Ross, even mediocre TV shows are just far and away better musically than they deserve. The music is one thing that didn't disappoint in late Game of Thrones.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019







Arist posted:

How about don't be a dick?

I agree, complaining and trying to blame others due to spoiling a show for yourself is a major dick move.

El Destructo
Jul 28, 2004

The football is in my path.
In 12 seconds' time she pulls
it away. I'm already lying there, 12 seconds into the future.



Decided to give this series a try and couldn't believe how they loving went there with the 1-2 punch of the Tulsa Massacre followed by white folks lashing out against "Redfordations." I'm not a comics nut, but I do know that these funny-costume stories resonate the most when they tackle real world issues. Watchmen started there and kept running. The HJ origin ep: What a statement! After that I couldn't wait to see where they took me.

But then eps 8 and 9 landed with one-dimensional cartoony heroes and monologuing megalomaniacs, abandoning the systemic issues tackled before. It was as though the series lost its powers and shrunk to the unremarkable stature of other superhero movies and series. The ending was still somewhat enjoyable but had none of the previous impact and power. It felt silly by comparison.

Watchmen is still a must-see series for me but I can't help wondering what might have been if they stayed the course. Maybe Will said it best: "...he could have done more."

El Destructo fucked around with this message at 07:08 on Jul 1, 2020

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

El Destructo posted:

Decided to give this series a try and couldn't believe how they loving went there with the 1-2 punch of the Tulsa Massacre followed by white folks lashing out against "Redfordations." I'm not a comics nut, but I do know that these funny-costume stories resonate the most when they tackle real world issues. Watchmen started there and kept running. The HJ origin ep: What a statement! After that I couldn't wait to see where they took me.

But then eps 8 and 9 landed with their one-dimensional cartoony heroes and monologuing megalomaniacs, completely abandoning the systemic issues it was tackling before. It was as though the series lost its powers and shrunk to the unremarkable stature of other superhero movies and series. The ending was still somewhat enjoyable, but lacking any of the impact and power that came before. It felt silly by comparison.

Watchmen is still a must-see series for me but I can't help but wonder what might have been if they stayed the course. Maybe Will said it best: "...he could have done more."

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

So is everyone mad that the show took on the topic of institutional racism or that a tv show couldn't solve institutional racism in the real world in nine episodes?

Not picking on you, but everyone made fun of Guy and this was totally a thing critics also said...

BB2K
Oct 9, 2012


Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

Not picking on you, but everyone made fun of Guy and this was totally a thing critics also said...

I don't quite get what this post is getting at

Its not okay to be disappointed with how the last few episodes went? Because critics didn't?

I felt almost entirely the same

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

A lot of critics were upset with the show for not having more to say about racism, my response to that was quoted above.

I guess my question is what could the show have done in the last two episodes that wouldn't have been careless and possibly harmful with ~solving racism~ in the final stretch? Are shows not allowed to bring up these topics without, in the same breath, offering actual solutions to realworld problems which have existed for centuries? I'm just confused as to what people wanted from a comicbook show beyond raising more awareness, which is often more than we can often hope for from entertainment products...

Darko
Dec 23, 2004



BB2K posted:

I don't quite get what this post is getting at

Its not okay to be disappointed with how the last few episodes went? Because critics didn't?

I felt almost entirely the same

If you rewatch, you see the show was always the same thing from the start - asking how the Watchmen comic would work if it actually cared about black people and adding them into it. Tulsa and racism just work the same way the Cold War works in the original comic and frames how that would work around superheroes.

Eiba
Jul 26, 2007




Saying the show was about really good interesting stuff, and then the last couple episodes were about something else is pretty fair though.

The action bit where they had to stop the villain to save the day, dealing with the consequences and arbitrary rules of this one guy from the comic did not quite land with the same weight as the personal story of Hooded Justice, or have the same compelling, distressing verisimilitude of people in an alternate history dealing with prejudice and abuse of power in a different yet familiar ways.

The end of the comic drove home the themes of impotence and global destruction. It recontextualized the concept of heroes and the concept of mass death, both things the comic had been dealing with from the start.

The TV show's climax didn't really say anything about power abuse other than, "don't let the bad people do it," it didn't have anything to say about racism other than, "it would be sweet if we gruesomely melted racists." Which, you know, fair enough. But the rest of the show said a lot more about how people deal with these things, and that was a lot more interesting as a result.

I actually think Doctor Manhattan is pretty neat, and the way they depicted him was pretty nifty in this show. But it wasn't the main appeal of this show. And it was what drove the climax.

I think the ending was fun. I liked the stuff before the ending scenario a lot more though.

emanresu tnuocca
Sep 2, 2011

Clarke has more acting talent in her brows than most other actors, including herself, have in their entire body.



I still maintain that the finale would've been much better had the cut been before Angela drinks the egg, rather than before she steps on water. Her choice is what the viewer should be left to ponder, it's the "I leave it completely in your hands" moment, does Angela think this power should exist, would she want to go down the same path Jon did, that's the meat of it.

Just end the show 30 seconds earlier.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


Yea, the show really somehow didn't understand how to end, unlike the book which ended with a republic villian monologuing in a protracted punching fight, while a giant blue man punched open a roof

wowee

Arist
Feb 13, 2012




Oven Wrangler

"The Watchmen show isn't releva--"

https://twitter.com/TheRyanParker/s...346015393804294

PriorMarcus
Oct 16, 2008

ASK ME ABOUT BEING ALLERGIC TO POSITIVITY


I think the biggest disappointment about the ending was that it was relatively low budget and clearly straining against that. Dr M killing the Seventh Cavalry in the penultimate episode was equally disappointing.

The idea in it are fine, its just that whatever money they had to throw at it wasn't enough.

Kazy
Oct 23, 2006

THIS DOG CAN DRIVE!



What the show doesn't tell you is the actual "reparations" the citizens of Greenwood got was "economic development" in the form of a sports stadium built in their neighborhood.

grate deceiver
Jul 10, 2009



How are those two situations even remotely comparable other than 'policeman wear mask of similar color'. Did we watch the same show?

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


You mean the cops that ignored due process and just started busting heads? What else may they have in common

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004




Grimey Drawer

Pirate Jenny and Red Scare spinoff when

fancy stats
Sep 9, 2009

A man's man, wears a lot of denim, tells long stories and has oatmeal saved from this morning.



https://twitter.com/KBJR6news/statu...407533200388100

Oh, come on

WHY BONER NOW
Mar 6, 2016


Pillbug

Lubeless???

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


grate deceiver posted:

How are those two situations even remotely comparable other than 'policeman wear mask of similar color'. Did we watch the same show?


un loving incredible

seriously getting worried about the universe and how dumb it is
https://twitter.com/CrookedKnight/s...416397698314241

PeterCat
Apr 8, 2020



I never did figure out how Lube man fit into the story.

Martman
Nov 20, 2006

SEXY... defines my posts and my ride


PeterCat posted:

I never did figure out how Lube man fit into the story.
he fit very easily tbh

because of the lube

Samopsa
Nov 9, 2009

Krijgt geen speciaal kerstdiner!


this must be a viral campaign for watchmen 2: snyder returns or something

https://twitter.com/sepinwall/statu...4267620353?s=20

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014
Probation
Can't post for 7 days!


It took like a week to go from "people aren't talking about this show now, this proves I was right and the show was bad" to "everyone is talking about this show now, this proves I was right and the show was bad"

https://twitter.com/BordeauxBlues/s...774368382517248

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


called the dc one when it happened two weeks ago. Whres my twit likes

Alec Eiffel
Sep 7, 2004

I like the way they think.

Lol who the gently caress isn't abusing other people's Nostalgia pills? Like gently caress I'd do it all drat day

pyrotek
May 21, 2004





I thought the first 2/3 of the show was exceptional and the last 1/3 was bad.

But, it was interesting the whole way through even if I didn't like it all. Even with the ending that was disappointing to me, it is still a show worth watching.

Compared to something like Star Trek: Picard, this looks like a miracle.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 28 days!


I'm surprised that during the earlier "There is no way wheelchair guy can be Hooded Justice because Hooded Justice had sympathies for the Third Reich" no one mentioned that the relationship between black people and jewish people in NYC has a long and very frosty history. Sufi Abdul Hamid, who would have been a contemporary of Hooded Justice, was virulently antisemitic. Meanwhile, the Nazis would use black children in the Hitler Youth as propaganda.

It's not something that makes sense through a modern lens at all, but if we put ourselves in the shoes of a black New Yorker in the 30s it makes a lot more sense. Both Hooded Justice and the Nazis felt that they are being kept down by the system and for both of them Jews would have been the ultimate symbol of that system, as per Sufi Abdul Hamid's belief that Jews are the worst kind of white person.

It doesn't even have to be a crazy antisemite like Abdul Hamid. Look at what James Baldwin wrote: "In Harlem.... our ... landlords were Jews, and we hated them. We hated them because they were terrible landlords and did not take care of the buildings. The grocery store owner was a Jew... The butcher was a Jew and, yes, we certainly paid more for bad cuts of meat than other New York citizens, and we very often carried insults home along with our meats... and the pawnbroker was a Jew—perhaps we hated him most of all." A black man who has sex with men would have absolutely been familiar with Baldwin and that's on top of his own lived experience which would mirror Baldwin's.

We think of Nazis as a sort of ur-racist now with a deep seated hatred of all other races. That's not unfair, they were horrific bastards. It doesn't take much imagination to realize that a black man wouldn't have faired much better under a victorious Third Reich than a Slav. But racial biases being what they are, thinking "The Nazis are gonna stick it to the Jews, the French and the Slavs in roughly that order and gently caress all those people" is something I could see Hooded Justice thinking.

I also dug how the titles were in Dr. Manhattan order. She was literally killed by space junk.

  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
  • Post
  • Reply