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Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Incelshok Na posted:

It's not something that makes sense through a modern lens at all, but if we put ourselves in the shoes of a black New Yorker in the 30s it makes a lot more sense.

It actually has far more recent precedent* than the 30's, at least in New York City. I'm specifically referring to the Crown Heights riot that took place in the early 1990's, which erupted after a traffic accident between a Hasidic Jewish motorcade and two black Guyanese children on the sidewalk. After the accident, medical services are alleged to have supported the Hasidic Jewish driver instead of providing aid to the two black kids (one of whom died, and the other was seriously injured.) The black community there rioted, and existing anti-Jewish resentment within their community played a huge role in how ugly it got.

You can still see echoes of that today. That part of Brooklyn is very Caribbean black, but is very close to a huge Hasidic population center. So, it's not uncommon to see arguments and altercations on the street between both groups.

*e: originally said “provenance.” This was the wrong word and was dumb. Sorry to all.

Xealot fucked around with this message at 23:11 on Jul 3, 2020

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Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!


I mean, it's been ongoing since forever. The Golden Age from 1955-1966, inasmuch as it existed and the CIA-mediated fracturing of the Civil Rights movement which folded a lot of the antisemitic elements into the Nation of Islam (and BHI, lol) at the same time Jews were becoming more "white" in the postwar era as part of American national mythmaking put things on a low simmer. It's not like Hymietown came out of nowhere.

Crown Heights riots aren't a start. They are part of a long history of friction. Baldwin and Hamid lived in Harlem.

Mantis42
Jul 26, 2010



It's kinda like how older black voters didn't vote for Bernie even though he was objectively the best candidate.

Arist
Feb 13, 2012



Oven Wrangler

Jesus christ, please, gently caress, no

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Mantis42 posted:

It's kinda like how older black voters didn't vote for Bernie even though he was objectively the best candidate.

Yeah, I don’t want to do that. A decade ago, I also had a sort of Marxist arrogance where I believed all race issues are actually just class issues, but if the last few years have taught me anything, it’s that racism exists apart from classism...there are very valid reasons black Americans may not trust white progressives.

Sleeveless
Dec 25, 2014

I AM TRULY ONE OF THE WORST POSTERS ON THIS SITE. LOOK UPON THIS GUY MANN REREG AND DESPAIR.


The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol"

tarlibone
Aug 1, 2014


Am I a... bad person?
AM I??


Fun Shoe

Sleeveless posted:

The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol"

Nice. I was hoping the punchline would be worth it.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!


Sleeveless posted:

The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol"

This is amazing.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Sleeveless posted:

The streets are extended gutters and the gutters are full of blood and when the drains finally scab over all the vermin will drown. The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the whores and politicians will look up and shout "Save us!"... and I'll look down, and whisper "Shouldn't have voted against your own interests lol"

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!


The sleeper hit is the "Well, actually, the poor relationship between black and jewish New Yorkers only dates back to a specific incident in 1991, fully seven years after Jesse Jackson tanked his presidential campaign by talking about 'Hymietown' for apparently no reason."

Most racially ignorant thing I've seen on these forums since pre-Iraq when people were still using the N-word "ironically".

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007


Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952





Xealot posted:

Yeah, I don’t want to do that. A decade ago, I also had a sort of Marxist arrogance where I believed all race issues are actually just class issues, but if the last few years have taught me anything, it’s that racism exists apart from classism...there are very valid reasons black Americans may not trust white progressives.

On the one hand, no war but class war. But let's win the race war right loving now. It has to happen first; our black brothers and sisters need the help, they deserve the help, they need it now, and that will break the divide and conquer strategy being played by the capitalist class.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!


mllaneza posted:

On the one hand, no war but class war. But let's win the race war right loving now. It has to happen first; our black brothers and sisters need the help, they deserve the help, they need it now, and that will break the divide and conquer strategy being played by the capitalist class.

If people haven't read Black Marxism, now is a good time.

If you (the generalized you, the reader. Not the person I am quoting) discovered Black Wallstreet through this show (no shame, we all have stuff we need to learn) that should be the next book you purchase. Your local lefty bookstore or your local black owned bookstore should be happy to buy it for you. Amazon has it too, I am sure, though I feel like that is cheating.

Incelshok Na fucked around with this message at 08:11 on Jul 3, 2020

Xealot
Nov 25, 2002

Showdown in the Galaxy Era.



Incelshok Na posted:

The sleeper hit is the "Well, actually, the poor relationship between black and jewish New Yorkers only dates back to a specific incident in 1991, fully seven years after Jesse Jackson tanked his presidential campaign by talking about 'Hymietown' for apparently no reason."

Yeah, I phrased my initial post stupidly, mis-using “provenance” when I meant “precedent.” Obviously it’s a tension with more than a century of history behind it. I meant to say that, contrary to the assertion it’s some vestigial thing dating back to the 30’s or earlier, there are very recent events that inform that tension in recent history. As well.

Another poster implied that anti-Jewish sentiment among the black community might seem odd or unprecedented if viewed through a modern lens, and I was arguing that this is untrue; it’s also a tension that continues to reaffirm itself in younger generations now. I’ve met people from that community who are younger and black, and that incident is the thing they pointed to to justify an anti-Jewish bias.

Xealot fucked around with this message at 22:56 on Jul 3, 2020

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Incelshok Na posted:

Most racially ignorant thing I've seen on these forums since pre-Iraq when people were still using the N-word "ironically".

This was Dave Chappelle's fault for not explicitly explaining to The Whites that it wasn't for them.

Incelshok Na
Jul 2, 2020
Probation
Can't post for 24 days!


Xealot posted:

Yeah, I phrased my initial post stupidly, mis-using “provenance” when I meant “precedent.” Obviously it’s a tension with more than a century of history behind it. I meant to say that, contrary to the assertion it’s some vestigial thing dating back to the 30’s or earlier, there are very recent events that inform that tension in recent history. As well.

Another poster implied that anti-Jewish sentiment among the black community might seem odd or unprecedented if viewed through a modern lens, and I was arguing that this is untrue; it’s also a tension that continues to reaffirm itself in younger generations now. I’ve met people from that community who are younger and black, and that incident is the thing they pointed to to justify an anti-Jewish bias.

That makes way more sense.

When I lived in the Bronx, my Dominican neighbors had some *choice* words about Jews. The core renter/landlord dynamic is still very real and breeds a lot of resentment.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

The show also explicitly talks about the roots of Hooded Justice's pro-German leanings with the scene where he gets the leaflet from the Germans when he's a soldier in World War I. It makes sense that he would be sympathetic to Germany from that point onwards.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on


Pillbug

TychoCelchuuu posted:

The show also explicitly talks about the roots of Hooded Justice's pro-German leanings with the scene where he gets the leaflet from the Germans when he's a soldier in World War I. It makes sense that he would be sympathetic to Germany from that point onwards.

That was his father

Escobarbarian
Jun 18, 2004

an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol an idol



Grimey Drawer

Yeah, he only knew of the flyer because his dad wrote the “look over this boy” message on it. I imagine he probably read it many times, though.

Rewatching this show and it’s still so fuckin great

Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

Am I the only one who thinks Dr Manhattan wasn't supposed to actually be dead? Along with all the parallels to the end of the comic, it seemed pretty heavily to hint that the machine was destroyed before his essence or whetever was transferred. Veight disintegrated him, too, and he chastised him that it would only slow him down because he's Dr. Goddamn Manhattan, putting himself together is his oldest trick. The egg could just be his way of creating a being like himself so he's not an eternal lonely naked man anymore.

TychoCelchuuu
Jan 2, 2012

This space for Rent.

Ugly In The Morning posted:

That was his father
Yeah, sorry. His father got the leaflet and gave it to him, along with presumably some thoughts on Germany while he was growing up, until the massacre.

KoRMaK
Jul 31, 2012

Easter was an Inside Job


Wild T posted:

Am I the only one who thinks Dr Manhattan wasn't supposed to actually be dead? Along with all the parallels to the end of the comic, it seemed pretty heavily to hint that the machine was destroyed before his essence or whetever was transferred. Veight disintegrated him, too, and he chastised him that it would only slow him down because he's Dr. Goddamn Manhattan, putting himself together is his oldest trick. The egg could just be his way of creating a being like himself so he's not an eternal lonely naked man anymore.
Absolutely agree

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Wild T
Dec 15, 2008

The point I'm trying to make is that the only way to come out on top is to kick the Air Force in the nuts, beart it savagely with a weight and take a dump on it's face.

KoRMaK posted:

Absolutely agree

I think the biggest clue was the glowing Dr M remaining after the climax concluded, hinting that he was still a part of the story. If that's the case, it's also a nice bit of character growth for John. He has his powers forced on him a second time, again because of his love of a woman. But this time instead of eventually isolating himself from her and ultimately humanity, he offers her a chance to voluntarily become like him and help him become a better deity.

Presumably his foresight is messed up around the time of his capture because of the tachyon emitters the Cavalry used, but he knew to deliberately foretell her about the eggs and the swimming pool. That's enough to tell the audience that he's aware of events after he 'dies', implying he'll eventually return.

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