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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Looking forward to this one. I've only beaten Sekiro fairly recently and while I still think it is a step back from the Souls games in some areas, it is definitely a massively satisfying experience.

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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Lord_Magmar posted:

So quick point in episode one, it’s not a tengu but a Nightjar that attacks if you defeat Genechiro. Specifically you get hit by a shuriken in the back and Genechiro proceeds to cut your arm off anyway.
Fairly sure they wear tengu masks, both seem valid descriptions to me.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 11:35 on Oct 20, 2019

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

vdate posted:

Presumably they've considerably tightened up/standardized consistency on what the parry-windows for attacks are as part of that refocusing, same way Metal Gear Rising did for its parries.
The parry window is very generous compared to Souls; it's one of the reasons the combat works as well as it does. The other is the already mentioned fact that failing to deflect results in a block as opposed to damage unless it's a perilous attack.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Aw, I was hoping to see some competent Mist Ravening since its upgrades sound cool as hell but I never really thought of using it as opposed to the standard parry/dodge.

Anyway, that ninja right there is a right bastard at the beginning due to his unconventional moveset but once you decipher the way he telegraphs his attacks, he can be defeated pretty simply. Or you can do what apparently most players I talked to do: just lure him to the cliff's edge and jump into the river. Before you climb back up, he will lose interest and start a leisurely stroll back to the pagoda, letting you backstab him easily.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
It's so they can boast about beating you with one arm tied behind their backs.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
To be fair on your first playthrough you can't really tell if the flashback area is for keeps and so there was fear of locking yourself out of whatever he's guarding.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
But also keep in mind they have not yet a difficulty spike yet. One is very close, though.

It's a great game and very much worth trying anyway.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
The English dub is really good, it just isn't such a good fit for the atmosphere.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
It also helps that you can actually stealth deathblow this one by dropping on him from above, making the fight considerably shorter. I figured it's better to learn the moveset of these guys where you can actually see it.
Gotta admit that fighting Lone Shadows feels absolutely amazing on NG+ when you already know their tricks, though.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 16:23 on Nov 25, 2019

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Dominicius posted:

So what exactly is the end goal here? Are we trying to destroy the Ashina clan?
Free your master, imprisoned by the Ashina.
It will get a lot more complicated.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
What the hell. Had no idea that was a thing.
Any chance for beam-parrying in the LP or do you have it all recorded?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Crystalgate posted:

That's the shinobi way of stealth. If you kill everyone, it's perfect stealth because it's the same as if nobody ever saw you.
The burning of Hirata Estate? 100% stealth ranking, perfect marks in ninja school.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

RareAcumen posted:

Ain't that a kick in the head?
This actually really threw me off in the early stages of the game - I assumed there was an input delay that wouldn't let me attack immediately after deflection and it turned out Wolf was still guarding. The result was not being hurt when I would have been if the attack happened, but it was pretty frustrating.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Alavaria posted:

Suddenly I feel a need for Insight and more eyes.
There's plenty of hosed up poo poo to be discovered, but Sekiro's story is much more grounded in mythology and history than in fantasy - after all, unlike the other named games we know the time and place (Sengoku Japan) it's taking place in.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

The Lone Badger posted:

That's because whatshisname is ressurecting him. It's the boy who does it, not Wolf.
The trouble is what this process inflicts on those around you - like, say, being a vector for a plague.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I had absolutely no idea Snap Seeds do that.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
You might also want to consider that there is very little reason to murder any of the NPCs we have ran into so far - there are no weapon or armor drops and if the creepy crazy doctor seems untrustworthy to, you can just decide to not send anyone to him.

I mean, is there a need for vulnerable NPCs?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
That video really makes Genichiro look a lot easier than he is. When you're actually playing for the first time and struggling with learning how to dodge and counter him, that third phase out of nowhere is a massive dick move, especially since this is the first time you encounter the gimmick he uses.

e: Still, it's a great example of how Sekiro does (most) bossfights - utterly impossible-seeming at first but ultimately fair and feeling utterly awesome when you finally nail the bastard.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Dec 29, 2019

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

RareAcumen posted:

Oh, I totally thought there were two of them.
There's actually four types of DANGER attacks: thrust (dodge/mikiri counter), sweep (dodge/jump counter), grab (get the hell away) and lightning (lightning deflection).

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Ciaphas posted:

Incidentally ThornBrain you did exactly the opposite of what I did with the Monkey Party: I saw them and thought "there's no way I'm not getting stuck in" and leaped into the middle of them, sword a whirlin

it ended badly
I just snuck up and flamethrower'd the poo poo out of them.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
This is my favorite area in the game and the extremely hosed-up backstory is a huge part of it. The moment you figure it out hits comparably to Dark Souls' "oh, that's what I've been walking on at the bottom of New Londo".

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Crazy Achmed posted:

Yikes but that last fight looked rough, I had a enough of a bad time in dark souls 2 getting tag-teamed by the small and big knights in Heide (the little guys would bash away at me while the big dudes wound up for a swing, there was never an opening where I had stamina for an attack).
It's... really not as bad as it looks. Mostly because of the first fight - by the end of that, you're essentially guaranteed to be an expert at fighting apes.
I think Guardian Ape 1 was genuinely the most difficult fight in the game for me. Well, along with Lady Butterfly, but that's just learning the ropes.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
You can keep the friendly shinobi in the Lone Shadow fight alive by deathblowing and re-Pupeteering him, that restores his health. He's quite useful for drawing the miniboss' attention.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Crazy Achmed posted:

As blatantly a bad idea as it is, it's nice that they give you the choice.
The thing is, those two bossfights and the sword technique are unique to the ending. If you're going for completion you kinda have to choose it.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Dominicius posted:

The demonic transformation in the end makes it framed like this was a choice between good and evil, when really it was set up as a choice to ask to ask the player which of Sekiro's two masters more deserve his loyalty.
We don't have all the info on Owl and the Dragon's Lineage yet. I think it makes sense for the pursuit of it to corrupt Sekiro (as it indeed did to Owl and Genichiro and the Senpou Monks), not to mention being torn by loyalty between his father and his master. I think it is easy to see where he breaks.
The fact Shura is not really well-defined doesn't really help in this situation, but going Shura is presented as going out of (self-)control and giving into bloodlust, something that doesn't seem too far-fetched when you're a killer who just got the only code he lives by twisted and broken.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 10:50 on Mar 10, 2020

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
Wolf isn't pursuing it, Owl is (and has been for a while but that is spoiler territory). Wolf is pledging himself to his cause (however short-lived it turns out to be) in this ending and he has already achieved (limited) immortality. At the end, there's nothing really left of him - he betrayed his master, killed his father, broke his code; all he has is rage.

I think the important part here is that Wolf has access to some part of Dragon's Legacy already, which is what keeps bringing him back when he dies. This kind of power can and will corrupt (as we saw at Senpou with the centipede monks) and breaking his oath to Kuro just pushes Wolf over the edge.

Not sure if any of that makes sense, tbh. Your interpretation may be just as valid or more.

e: I keep getting the name wrong: Dragon Blood.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 10, 2020

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
gently caress
So yeah, this is the first time I'm finding out the resurrection statues can be used mid-fight; I thought they just refill the node without resetting the timer.
I think I might have had a more difficult time with this game than what was strictly necessary.


e: Update on previous page, folks!

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Lord_Magmar posted:

what happened in Hirata
Fairly sure we haven't seen that yet; maybe spoiler tags are in order?

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I'd still wait until we've seen the cutscene in question but hey, whatever floats your boat.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
The real bad part of the Shura ending is that you don't get to experience this place. Best level in the game.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Crazy Achmed posted:

Oh yeah, peak From right there - everything and everybody is irrecvocably hosed up and corrupted, and the only release is death. DEEEAAAAAATTHHHHH.
Fairly sure peak From in that regard is Metal Wolf Chaos.

Anyway, is the whole carp/transformation/immortality story based on something real? I thought they were just kept for decoration, but this game seems to be fairly well-grounded in Japanese history, tradition and mythology...

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Precambrian posted:

I'm guessing Kuro's facing someone's plan to kill him to steal his dragon heritage on top of Genichiro trying to take Wolf's place as his immortal protector.
Genichiro doesn't give a poo poo about Kuro himself, he's doing it for Ashina. Letting him get his hands on Kuro for a longer time would most likely just lead to more Senpou-style experiments on extracting the immortality.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Dzhay posted:

It seems to be mostly made out of cliffs and ghosts. I don't know why anyone's so keen on conquering it.
Pest control.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

Ciaphas posted:

I love the Divine Dragon encounter, especially as a dramatic climax to the arc of preparing for immortal severance. The difficulty of the gameplay is scaled way back, so you can put on a good pair of headphones and sink into the visual and (beautifully-mixed IMO) aural spectacle. Whole thing feels cathartic in a way
I also like the fact it's a fake-out; it's a very final-feeling area, you've got all the hints about dragons and snakes and immortality and you're expecting one hell of a fight given the buildup. Then it's a simple, easy, but very memorable experience.

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
My take on Fountainhead was that it was originally just an ordinary palace that went to poo poo once the Dragon appeared (and possibly forcibly relocated the Palace - we know there's buildings at the bottom of the lake so the dragon could've made quite an impact). The dragon is wounded, missing an arm, which seems to me to imply it did not end up there of its own accord - maybe a crash landing? Analogy to spread of Buddhism in Japan? Meditation on the old ways (the small, black, dragons that seem to be worshipping the big one) being replaced by new ones?

Either way, immortality seems to corrupt in the long run no matter what: the people in Fountainhead had access to the genuine article so I'd put their descent into what they are now down to simple stagnation and decadence. Asshina is a different case: their version of the water has been polluted somewhere on the way there (we've seen the effects in Mibu village and I can't think of any other explanation for why Mibu's folk are different from the ones in the Palace), possibly in the Palace itself (all those immortal carps can't be healthy) or, on a more spiritual level, by the folk of the Palace abusing the immortality - we don't even know if the dragon offers immortality willingly or it is a side effect, maybe of its wound.

I guess that would make the question of what the hell is the Dragon's Heritage and what connection does Kuro have to Fountainhead and frankly I have no idea.

anilEhilated fucked around with this message at 15:36 on Apr 20, 2020

anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer
I love how our final enemy's attitude is basically "I respect what you did and wouldn't mess with you if it was up to me but this was my idiot grandson's last wish so HAVE AT THEE".

e: Really bad page snipe. Final boss video at the previous page.

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anilEhilated
Feb 17, 2014

But I say fuck the rain.

Grimey Drawer

a cartoon duck posted:

so if the divine child and sekiro are on a journey to the west, does that make sekiro a monkey, a pig, some kinda river demon, or a horse?
This is kind of an interesting analogy since the way the Dragon arrived (from the west) and pushing the local gods out of favor (the serpents in their shrines, Senpou monks turning from worship to obsession with immortality, maybe even the little old dragons that serve it) could be seen as an image of the spread of Buddhism in Japan (although this obviously took place much earlier than Sekiro's time).

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