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Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
the per aspera demo is back up? nice! i'm looking forward to that one, like a very heavy logistics focused surviving mars that spans the entire planet and has narrative events

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Mad Wack
Mar 27, 2008

"The faster you use your cooldowns, the faster you can use them again"
that song of syx game is not good, sorry

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Mad Wack posted:

that song of syx game is not good, sorry

Explain.

Hub Cat
Aug 3, 2011

Trunk Lover

I think maybe if you post some bullet points of what you didn't like it would be appreciated.:shobon:

Hub Cat fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Oct 9, 2020

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy
song of syx is definitely unfinished but i like the approach to scaled up colony building. real indie jank though

Mad Wack
Mar 27, 2008

"The faster you use your cooldowns, the faster you can use them again"
yeah it's just too unfinished at this point but it might be good in 2-3 years

the ui is really really bad, the game doesn't explain itself at all

it's telling that community seems to only be able to produce guides up to building a few farms and a warehouse... beyond that it's just trial and error

i also felt like building things was really obtuse and it wasn't clear what was needed to actually make a building, some of them require furniture placement and there's no way to tell where the furniture should be or what the outlines are

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Mad Wack posted:

yeah it's just too unfinished at this point but it might be good in 2-3 years

the ui is really really bad, the game doesn't explain itself at all

it's telling that community seems to only be able to produce guides up to building a few farms and a warehouse... beyond that it's just trial and error

i also felt like building things was really obtuse and it wasn't clear what was needed to actually make a building, some of them require furniture placement and there's no way to tell where the furniture should be or what the outlines are

Now that's a post I can agree with. I think there's a lot of promise in it but it's, well, whoof.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

I managed to decipher enough of the bullshit to get a town of ~750 people going with a nice little castle wall but yeah the game is rough and needs a lot of time to finish. I'm done with it now because there's not much else to do but think it's a good framework for what could be a great game someday.

Monowhatever
Mar 19, 2010


Songs of syx: I've managed to get a town of about 1.6k people going, once you get all the plates spinning It seems hard to knock them off and have your city fall apart. The ui is hot garbage but I got really high and just stumbled though it with trial and error. still find it kinda fun but I would hold off buying it for a year or two if anyone was looking at it still, it's being made by one guy so could take awhile. I'm probably gonna keep at it until I can look at the tax stuff then shelf it and wait.

Oxyclean
Sep 23, 2007


I got gifted Graveyard Keeper awhile back and I'm thinking about finally getting around to playing it - is the DLC worth grabbing before starting a playthrough, or is it more of a late game thing?

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

Play without it, it wouldn't come up until later in the game. I loved the game but was kinda sick of it by the time I would've done the DLC stuff so I never bought it. You might get your fill without it depending on how the game grabs you

Womyn Capote
Jul 5, 2004


I actually really like overcrowd but agree with the other posts, it's simply overtuned at the moment. Speed up the income a bit, slow down the rep changes, maybe spread out the scenarios and that will do a lot for the balancing.

FreelanceSocialist
Nov 19, 2002
Ditto on the Graveyard Keeper DLC. I regret buying it because the main game was so grindy that I burned out before I ever really got into the new content.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

Mayveena posted:

Hey someone play the new shapez.io update and tell us what it's like. I'm afraid if I tried, my head would blow up :)

I checked this out last night loading up an old save and I dunno I just couldn't get back into it. I think for some reason looking through the list of new stuff in this wires update has me intimidated to go on any further because I don't really have any desire to gently caress with any circuitry or and/or gates or any of that stuff that was added so I just vaped a bowl while watching my factory make widgets and then quit a few minutes later after realizing I didn't know what I was doing anymore and didn't feel like starting a new factory over.

FreelanceSocialist
Nov 19, 2002
I have that problem with 90% of the management games I get into. They just have zero replay value for me because re-learning all the stuff just feels like too much work.

explosivo
May 23, 2004

Fueled by Satan

I think for me it really depends on the game, I've come back to Factorio a handful of times and it's always been fun to get a little better at it and progress through the tech tree faster knowing what I know from the last attempt. Shapez.io is fun to play but it just didn't grab me as hard past the first few nights because there's no real tangible goal outside of make more complex shapes more efficiently. Which I suppose simplifies a lot about the genre and is fun in its own way because of that however without a carrot on a stick like eventually having an automated factory controlled by drones in Factorio I just lose steam.

Anime Store Adventure
May 6, 2009


It’s weird how subtle replayability and longevity can be in these sorts of games.

Between my actual IRL career and training and game interests, I should love Factorio, Satisfactory, and equivalent games, but I can hardly break into the middle tiers of production and playing either again sounds like a painful exercise. As much as it plays exactly to the type of thing I both enjoy figuring out and am good at understanding, I avoid Autonauts and Factory Town.

Where something like Tropico, where I can place some parks and make some perfect looking and operating neighborhood is absolute crack cocaine for my brain despite the underlying mechanics being either or both much simpler but also more difficult to observe/understand because of lack of relevant info. Sometimes I feel like I have no idea why some piece of my logistics is breaking or something is going wrong, but man I love laying out my little island nation.

At the same time I can’t really replay Surviving Mars despite its Tropico similarities because I’ve “beaten” it.

I suppose the thread for me is some kind of abstract “creativity/aesthetic” concept or allowance, but it’s hard to pin down and worse when you’re eyeballing so many of these indie/small games. I just tried the Snowtopia demo and it made it clear to me that it wasn’t going to scratch that itch, despite telegraphing all of the signs that it would. And not to accuse it of lying: it just didn’t quite feel like what I’d want to play once I tried it’s gameplay loop for extremely subtle reasons.

WarpedNaba
Feb 8, 2012

Being social makes me swell!
I just want to take a small place and make it prosperous. Where people are happy and they like me.

totalnewbie
Nov 13, 2005

I was born and raised in China, lived in Japan, and now hold a US passport.

I am wrong in every way, all the damn time.

Ask me about my tattoos.

Anime Store Adventure posted:

It’s weird how subtle replayability and longevity can be in these sorts of games.

Between my actual IRL career and training and game interests, I should love Factorio, Satisfactory, and equivalent games, but I can hardly break into the middle tiers of production and playing either again sounds like a painful exercise. As much as it plays exactly to the type of thing I both enjoy figuring out and am good at understanding, I avoid Autonauts and Factory Town.

Where something like Tropico, where I can place some parks and make some perfect looking and operating neighborhood is absolute crack cocaine for my brain despite the underlying mechanics being either or both much simpler but also more difficult to observe/understand because of lack of relevant info. Sometimes I feel like I have no idea why some piece of my logistics is breaking or something is going wrong, but man I love laying out my little island nation.

At the same time I can’t really replay Surviving Mars despite its Tropico similarities because I’ve “beaten” it.

I suppose the thread for me is some kind of abstract “creativity/aesthetic” concept or allowance, but it’s hard to pin down and worse when you’re eyeballing so many of these indie/small games. I just tried the Snowtopia demo and it made it clear to me that it wasn’t going to scratch that itch, despite telegraphing all of the signs that it would. And not to accuse it of lying: it just didn’t quite feel like what I’d want to play once I tried it’s gameplay loop for extremely subtle reasons.

Maybe it's exactly because the mechanics are so transparent in Factorio, etc? At that point, it's just a math problem (excel spreadsheet), repetitive placement of stuff, and waiting for craft, etc. So in that sense, you've "beaten" the game because you understand exactly what is happening and what needs to happen, which is now no longer interesting because you're not problem solving, just going through the motions.

dogstile
May 1, 2012

fucking clocks
how do they work?
I go back to factorio occasionally because now i know the problem, i can just speedrun it. That's fun in its own way.

FreelanceSocialist
Nov 19, 2002

WarpedNaba posted:

I just want to take a small place and make it prosperous. Where people are happy and they like me.

That's all any of us want :smith:

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

WarpedNaba posted:

I just want to take a small place and make it prosperous. Where people are happy and they like me.

This is honestly why I'm still playing Tropico 3 even though I've beaten it at this point. The missions get harder but not really because once you get tobacco/sugar up for the cigar/rum factories you win, but drat if I don't feel good about giving my tiny island social security and same-sex marriages and enough food and money to keep everyone happy.


As for Factorio I enjoy it to a point, because I suck at math/planning but enjoy working on one problem at a time. Satisfactory captures this perfectly because the 3D layout encourages dumb spaghetti and nonsense belts as you slowly get all the pieces in order so you can make new item 52.

Disappointing Pie
Feb 7, 2006
Words cannot describe what a disaster the pie was.
What is the best Tropico? I think I own dang near every one from various sales.

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Disappointing Pie posted:

What is the best Tropico? I think I own dang near every one from various sales.

I've played 1, 3 and 4 so far and own all of them. I think 3 is one of the best ones to start with as you get Juanito and Betty Boom as the radio DJs. And 4 is basically 3.5 with more stuff, so starting from 3 lets you really appreciate what they added in 4.

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Just go 4, it's better than 3 in pretty much every way. :v:
2 is... different. Personally I refunded 6 and that was my best decision with that one. 5 is ok to good. It has some steps forward and some steps back, but you can play multiplayer if that's something you wanted to do (it also runs cooler on the computer). I've tried that once with a friend and you each build a city on the same island and can send armies to attack each other while competing for objectives. Surprisingly it's not terrible.

I don't understand why some people like Juanito, all he does is shout. Penultimo and Sunny are the best radio hosts by far. Especially since most of the other characters also come on the radio. For example the opening of a museum of modern art is done by General Rodriguez and Father Esteban will happily come on air to express his joy over a new pub or rum distillery (also makes an anonymous call in to say that god is most displeased if you enact a prohibition).

Anime Store Adventure
May 6, 2009


I actually like 6 the best, but that’s for a few personal taste things. 4 is probably the “objective” best? It’s good too.

Mayveena
Dec 27, 2006

People keep vandalizing my ID photo; I've lodged a complaint with HR
I will be streaming Factory Town today at 3pm Pacific. My channel name is Mayveena. I'm a spotty streamer at best, so you'll not be asked to subscribe or anything like that. Hope you can make it!

StrixNebulosa
Feb 14, 2012

You cheated not only the game, but yourself.
But most of all, you cheated BABA

Poil posted:

Just go 4, it's better than 3 in pretty much every way. :v:
2 is... different. Personally I refunded 6 and that was my best decision with that one. 5 is ok to good. It has some steps forward and some steps back, but you can play multiplayer if that's something you wanted to do (it also runs cooler on the computer). I've tried that once with a friend and you each build a city on the same island and can send armies to attack each other while competing for objectives. Surprisingly it's not terrible.

I don't understand why some people like Juanito, all he does is shout. Penultimo and Sunny are the best radio hosts by far. Especially since most of the other characters also come on the radio. For example the opening of a museum of modern art is done by General Rodriguez and Father Esteban will happily come on air to express his joy over a new pub or rum distillery (also makes an anonymous call in to say that god is most displeased if you enact a prohibition).

Juanito is so ENTHUSIASTIC it's wholesome, he's so into you being EL PRESIDENTE and I enjoy it! It contrasts nicely with how much Betty Boom HATES MY GUTS. hates them. "god will forgive you. the revolution will not."

I'm working on the original campaign in 3 and loving it a lot even though I've "solved" it and when I'm done I'll do 4 and then move up. It's not a hugely original game but it does what it needs to and is fun.

Trivia
Feb 8, 2006

I'm an obtuse man,
so I'll try to be oblique.
Tropico 3 had fun scenarios and the DJs were fun.

Four was just a rehash if three.

I skipped five because of my disappointment with four, but I liked six because they changed up the mechanics so it's a bit more difficult and the answer to everything isn't just RUM.

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

Disappointing Pie posted:

What is the best Tropico? I think I own dang near every one from various sales.

either 4 or 6. my ranking is:

4 > 3 > 6 > 5 > 1 > 2

with 4 being not super great and 2 being not that bad but just ok

i think the transition between 4 and 5 added more bad stuff than good stuff, where the jump between 3 and 4 added more good stuff than bad stuff

the classic tropicos are still good if dated, but 2 just doesn't work as a game as well as 1 did

6 is just an iterated version of 5, like 4 is just iterated 3

i group tropico into three 'eras'. the classic era, the freeform era, and the grid-based era. all have their pros and cons, but i personally prefer the freeform era as being the most unique city builder of the lot with sufficient things to do but not too many gimmicky mechanics

the worst part about the grid-based tropicos is that the background music is not quite as good as the series traditionally has

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

luxury handset posted:

the worst part about the grid-based tropicos is that the background music is not quite as good as the series traditionally has
Yeah definitely. If you play 5 you want to turn that music OFF and put on the soundtrack of an earlier game.

LonsomeSon
Nov 22, 2009

A fishperson in an intimidating hat!

3 is when they nailed Tropico down into a good formula, 4 iterates on that, 5 adds some things but also tinkered with stuff just to be different. I think that combining workplace maintenance and wages is definitely the greatest Tropico misstep after “what if Presidente was a colonial-age pirate king for the whole game?!”

I haven’t played a lot of 6, but it seems like it broadly does for 5 what 4 did for 3. I really like the archipelago-ish map design; it gives more of a sense of outlyingness to the remote villages. I don’t put a lot of time into aesthetically manicuring my city-builder stuff like I’ve seen some people do, but it’s very easy to lay out services, fill in spaces with some gardens, connect it all to the ferry with a single road, and fill in housing to create a very natural-feeling out-island town which appears to have grown up around a couple of mines, or some good land for a cash crop, without too much busywork.

It does seem like the monument-theft mechanic, though conceptually hilarious, takes a needs and politics system already known for actually being pretty easy and stable then just casually breaks large parts of it ~

Dirk the Average
Feb 7, 2012

"This may have been a mistake."

LonsomeSon posted:

It does seem like the monument-theft mechanic, though conceptually hilarious, takes a needs and politics system already known for actually being pretty easy and stable then just casually breaks large parts of it ~

The monument theft mechanic is basically their replacement for customizing El Presidente, since the default abilities available tend to be extremely minor. You do also get foreign relations penalties, which can actually be an issue at times.

Mr. Fall Down Terror
Jan 24, 2018

by Fluffdaddy

LonsomeSon posted:

3 is when they nailed Tropico down into a good formula, 4 iterates on that, 5 adds some things but also tinkered with stuff just to be different. I think that combining workplace maintenance and wages is definitely the greatest Tropico misstep after “what if Presidente was a colonial-age pirate king for the whole game?!”

yes absolutely

removing gender-based jobs is fine. it made the other games a little more tinkery in terms of labor management but it was largely ignorable and a bit sexist. like if you're not going to lean entirely into gender roles then just get rid of it

(it's also bothered me that tropico is so white. i get that the game is made by europeans now but there's like zero afro-carib people at all in any of these games which is bizarre)

removing the ability to tamper with wages on a granular level streamlines things but also removes some of the player agency in an already easy game series

i kind of like the era mechanics but they just don't quite work. the main benefit here is that it forces the player to build an 'old town', otherwise who would ever build an opera house?

both the research/tech tree mechanics and active military units on the map were complete missteps imo

Poil
Mar 17, 2007

Military in squads was not a good move. Especially since they move at a snail's pace, buildings are fragile, enemies will attack move while your troops will move and only engage if they are near their target area.

Not being able to socialize housing really blows. The AI is also really stupid and tropicans will unhappily move into shacks rather than homes they could easily afford.

The budget system makes everything better if you throw money at it. Everything. For example increasing the budget of the docks from completely negligible to almost completely negligible makes ships arrive significantly more often. It's not exactly balanced.

Shooting Blanks
Jun 6, 2007

Real bullets mess up how cool this thing looks.

-Blade



I just noticed that Tropico 6 was on humble bundle right now for cheap. Was thinking about getting it, but if it's worse than 4 then maybe I'll look elsewhere.

PerniciousKnid
Sep 13, 2006

PerniciousKnid posted:

Just in case is of interest to anyone, Tropico 6 and Autonauts are in the October Humble Bundle.

kanonvandekempen
Mar 14, 2009

PerniciousKnid posted:

Just in case is of interest to anyone, Tropico 6 and Autonauts are in the October Humble Bundle.

How is autonauts?

Unreal_One
Aug 18, 2010

Now you know how I don't like to use the sit-down gun, but this morning we just don't have time for mucking about.

kanonvandekempen posted:

How is autonauts?

It has serious issues with scaling up once you're north of 100 bots.

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FreelanceSocialist
Nov 19, 2002

Unreal_One posted:

It has serious issues with scaling up once you're north of 100 bots.

You mean performance wise or gameplay-wise?

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