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Wolfsheim posted:I think its actually a nice touch that the rich family's failings are mostly presented as ignorance, because how could they realize they're terrible when society is kinda made for them? I know IRL wealthy people who are exactly like that. Just the dumbest people on the face of the earth. Will believe any dumb poo poo that reinforces how special them and their kids are.
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Nov 6, 2019 17:37
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Fritzler posted:
I took that scene as a character moment. The point is that we don't know who it was, because none of the family are willing to rat each other out.
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Nov 6, 2019 17:58
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When the Kim daughter interviews the Parks she uses some very common textbook psychological tricks that psychics/mediums use. My dad went to Yonsei U. I don’t know if it’s still the case but back in the day I think it was the second best school in Korea. The fact that the Kim kids use American names communicates the idea that they grew up in the US or went to school in the US. Asians in general love sending their kids to the US for school. It’s a status symbol. This is very helpful in selling Mrs Park on her bonafides. Speaking English is sort of the aspirational language of being successful There’s a pervasive idea that things in the US are automatically better, an idea that Bong Joonho seems to hate as he has railed against this mindset in several of his movies Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 21:36 on Nov 6, 2019 |
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Nov 6, 2019 20:30
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Majkol posted:That's...quite an interpretation. I... did a bad job communicating what I really meant. My b Wolfsheim posted:I think its actually a nice touch that the rich family's failings are mostly presented as ignorance, because how could they realize they're terrible when society is kinda made for them? This was closer to the point I was trying to get across. From a strictly neoliberal, capitalistic perspective, nothing the rich family does is "wrong". They're job creators, they're stern managers, they keep their professional relationships professional, their concerns go about as far as their immediate family and no further. This is all society asks of them, and as such, they are fundamentally "good people" as defined by the systems of ethics and incentives in which they reside. Mrs. Kim essentially laments that she has no ground to stand on in wanting to dislike Mrs. Park because nothing within her known moral system gives her any leeway to do so. Mrs. Park is "nice". Her surface-level flaws were "ironed-out" by her wealth. That's as far as it goes. When I said it was a refreshing take on wealth, I meant that it is a tired cliche in our media to villainize the wealthy through emphasize on petty character flaws alone, deftly avoiding digging any deeper into the true root cause of their evil: their wealth. This decades-long propaganda song and dance is what gives liberals a leg to stand on and point to "good ones" like bill gates or whatever.
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Nov 6, 2019 21:39
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fancy stats posted:This feels to me like the movie Pardon the over animated Youtube guy talking to camera video, but this guy does a really great job of both analyzing Parasite and comparing it to Joker. Skip to 7:30 to get past him talking about Joon Ho's other films https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HWswz0EsI4s I really loved this. It was funny, heart breaking, surprising, and thoughtful on top of the gorgeous production and expert direction. Also regarding wealth making it easier to be nice in a lovely way; the dad was definitely intentionally portrayed as actively bad and not just naive like the rest of the family. He scoffs and literally turns his nose up on those beneath him, literally and figuratively, as well as the throwaway lines about "loving" his wife. it's so metaphorical! Bottom Liner fucked around with this message at 23:51 on Nov 6, 2019 |
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Nov 6, 2019 23:48
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I saw this in the theatre last night and the subtitles disappeared when the murder happens. I think I understood the rest from context but just to confirm: the father disappears into the basement, the son is put on trial(?) but gets off due to mental issues brought on by being hit in the head real bad, the mother is not put on trial(?), a white family moves into the house for some amount of time (years?), the father contacts the son using Morse code, the white family moves out and the mother and son con their way into viewing the house and save the dad. Is that about right? Overall an excellent movie. There's some relatively subtle imagery but it isn't necessary to understand the movie. I'm sure I'd catch a few new things on a second viewing.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:43
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Close. The son tells the dad he’s going to make a lot of money and buy the house one day, which leads us into that scene in the future where it looks like he is legit doing so, then it cuts back to him writing the letter so it’s ambiguous if that’s a dream/fantasy or not.
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Nov 7, 2019 17:48
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Bottom Liner posted:Close. The son tells the dad he’s going to make a lot of money and buy the house one day, which leads us into that scene in the future where it looks like he is legit doing so, then it cuts back to him writing the letter so it’s ambiguous if that’s a dream/fantasy or not. Thanks! That makes the movie even better! I will definitely have to rewatch when it comes out on Netflix or wherever.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:02
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Chicken posted:I saw this in the theatre last night and the subtitles disappeared when the murder happens. As far as the legal stuff - both the mother and son are found guilty of fraud, but only receive probation. The son has the issue of laughing inappropriately due to the head trauma, but it's unclear how serious or permanent it is.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:08
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The shot of the basement guy peaking out and looking at the child has to be one of the most unsettling frames Ive ever seen in a movie. Its rare anything in a film genuinely freaks me out but that actually sent shivers down my spine. Probably my favorite movie of the year so far, it just works on every conceivable level and is absolutely representative of cinema at its finest. The flash flood/rain storm sequence as they decend from the heights of wealth to the desparity of poverty has to be one of the best visual metaphors Ive seen in a film.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:15
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AccountSupervisor posted:The shot of the basement guy peaking out and looking at the child has to be one of the most unsettling frames Ive ever seen in a movie. I love that shot so much. Even knowing in advance that the "ghost" was actually just the basement guy doesn't make the way he appears any less unsettling! Takes real talent to pull that off convincingly.
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Nov 7, 2019 18:34
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God Hole posted:
I couldn't forgive him or like him, but I saw that what he had done was, to him, entirely justified. It was all very careless and confused. They were careless people, Tom and Daisy – they smashed up things and creatures and then retreated back into their money or their vast carelessness, or whatever it was that kept them together and let other people clean up the mess they had made
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Nov 7, 2019 18:44
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Perpetual posted:As far as the legal stuff - both the mother and son are found guilty of fraud, but only receive probation. The son has the issue of laughing inappropriately due to the head trauma, but it's unclear how serious or permanent it is. Man I'm so tired of these Joker origin movies.
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Nov 7, 2019 19:50
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I’m curious what symbolic meaning his laughing has because that’s screaming symbolism
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Nov 7, 2019 19:51
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Steve Yun posted:I’m curious what symbolic meaning his laughing has because that’s screaming symbolism I interpreted it as the gap between the rich and poor being so absurd that it's almost comical. Like you have billionaires fighting over percents of their fortune, which they'll never actually use, but could be used to find universal health care. Like the real cost for the rich to help the poor isn't financial, but just to act with some semblance of decency, and that's not a cost most, if any, are willing to pay. In contrast, this seems like an almost opposite reaction from the rich https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1192295796982636545
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Nov 7, 2019 20:17
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Bottom Liner posted:Close. The son tells the dad he’s going to make a lot of money and buy the house one day, which leads us into that scene in the future where it looks like he is legit doing so, then it cuts back to him writing the letter so it’s ambiguous if that’s a dream/fantasy or not. there is a little more to it: He starts the letter by saying he has a "plan" to get the money to buy the house. That specific wording means it's almost certain he never actually will, because as the movie has already established, having a plan doesn't work.
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Nov 7, 2019 22:13
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I’m 99% sure it’s meant to be taken in the darkest interpretation possible (it’s a daydream and not a glimpse of the future) because who amongst us has not daydreamed about what kinds of nice things we’ll do for others when we’re rich and how many of those daydreams haven’t amounted to squat
Steve Yun fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 7, 2019 |
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Nov 7, 2019 23:07
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Looking over his whole filmography, somebody should put their hand on Bong Joonho’s shoulder and ask him if he’s okay: - you can’t trust America to fix things for you - you can’t trust other people to fix things for you - you can’t trust people who love you to tell you the truth or do what’s in your best interests - you can’t trust paper records to be facts - you can’t even trust your own brain to distinguish what’s the truth
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Nov 7, 2019 23:17
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Both ari aster and robert eggers were asked that in their AMAs Ari said "nope" Robert said "ask my therapist"
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Nov 7, 2019 23:57
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Steve Yun posted:Looking over his whole filmography, somebody should put their hand on Bong Joonho’s shoulder and ask him if he’s okay: 
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Nov 8, 2019 00:29
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Nov 8, 2019 03:41
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This is 100% going to be my favourite movie of 2019. The first half is like a delightful comedic romp about scamming and then it completely shifts into something else, something insane and unpredictable. I'm so glad I went into this unspoiled. I'm not a huge fan of the epilogue. I think I would have preferred something more realistic (albeit unhappy) rather than "and they were reunited and lived happily ever after" as the ending but I'm not mad at it.  JESSICA ONLY CHILD FROM ILLINOIS CHICAGO I’M A CLASSMATE OF YOUR COUSIN
Shneak fucked around with this message at 05:17 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 05:04
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Shneak posted:I'm not a huge fan of the epilogue. I think I would have preferred something more realistic (albeit unhappy) rather than "and they were reunited and lived happily ever after" as the ending but I'm not mad at it. Uh, did you miss the final scene after the fake happy ending? They're still in the same apartment, the son has brain trauma, the daughter is dead, and the father is in hiding at the end.
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Nov 8, 2019 05:20
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Bottom Liner posted:Uh, did you miss the final scene after the fake happy ending? They're still in the same apartment, the son has brain trauma, the daughter is dead, and the father is in hiding at the end. Did I? I'm referring to the son and mom standing trial, him growing up and becoming rich enough to buy the house, and the last scene is the dad coming out of the bunker to them
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Nov 8, 2019 05:33
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Shneak posted:Did I? I'm referring to the son and mom standing trial, him growing up and becoming rich enough to buy the house, and the last scene is the dad coming out of the bunker to them No, the last shot after that cuts back to him writing that letter saying that's what his plan was, but showing that it was just a fantasy of how he hopes it would play out (it won't)
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Nov 8, 2019 05:37
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Shneak posted:Did I? I'm referring to the son and mom standing trial, him growing up and becoming rich enough to buy the house, and the last scene is the dad coming out of the bunker to them Yeah, that part is revealed to be a daydream sequence and we go back to Ki-woo reading the letter he was writing to his dad.
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Nov 8, 2019 05:38
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Movies that lie to you by presenting imagery are my jam. If you have a strong stomach for torture and haven’t already, watch Audition. Also recently watched Steven Universe. They fake you out so many clever ways with imagery.
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Nov 8, 2019 05:58
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That was the most intense comedy I've ever seen. The daughter dumping peaches on the former maid after the constant implication that people are going to get horrifically murdered any moment had me laughing hysterically.
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Nov 8, 2019 15:28
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Bottom Liner posted:No, the last shot after that cuts back to him writing that letter saying that's what his plan was, but showing that it was just a fantasy of how he hopes it would play out (it won't) My theatre never showed that 
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Nov 8, 2019 17:32
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As far as "class conflict stories involving an underground lair" movies go, I can't help but think Parasite isn't quite as good as Us. Even though the plot is more logical and grounded, the characters and setting in Parasite are treated more as instruments to advance its central idea. They lack the personality and interiority of the characters in Us. Parasite is a movie meant more to satisfy, while Us is meant to actually challenge its audience.
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Nov 8, 2019 17:35
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Shneak posted:My theatre never showed that wtf!? did it go straight to credits? pospysyl posted:As far as "class conflict stories involving an underground lair" movies go, I can't help but think Parasite isn't quite as good as Us. Even though the plot is more logical and grounded, the characters and setting in Parasite are treated more as instruments to advance its central idea. They lack the personality and interiority of the characters in Us. Parasite is a movie meant more to satisfy, while Us is meant to actually challenge its audience. I think it's more effective than Us in making the audience consider the content because Us is too obfuscated for most. I really like Us (even more than Get Out), but this was better at tackling the social issues it raises because it actually confronts them.
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Nov 8, 2019 17:37
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Bottom Liner posted:wtf!? did it go straight to credits? I kid you not it cut to black when the dad and son went in for the hug. Straight to credits.  I appreciate this drat movie more and more every day.
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Nov 8, 2019 17:42
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Is Joon Ho loving with us?
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Nov 8, 2019 17:47
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Maybe the theater thought that ending was too much of a downer and took matters into their own hands
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Nov 8, 2019 18:03
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pospysyl posted:As far as "class conflict stories involving an underground lair" movies go, I can't help but think Parasite isn't quite as good as Us. Even though the plot is more logical and grounded, the characters and setting in Parasite are treated more as instruments to advance its central idea. They lack the personality and interiority of the characters in Us. Parasite is a movie meant more to satisfy, while Us is meant to actually challenge its audience. I disagree. I thought the Kims were fantastic, as was the dynamic between the housekeeper and her husband. They were incredibly humane. The central conceit of Us doesn't really work because the underclass serves no purpose there. They just exist to make the plot happen. How are they exploited by capital? What labor do they do? The explanation given by the unreliable narrator is that they are used to control the people above ground and the events in the film seem to confirm that there is some connection between them. So, wait - the lowest of the low are used somehow to control everyone else? The power dynamic makes zero sense. *like one of the central themes of Parasite is that the Kims genuinely love and care for each other, so do the housekeeper and her husband ( to the point of making massive sacrifices for each other ). Contrast that with the reactions of mr. Park to the Kim's chatter about loving your wife Majkol fucked around with this message at 20:06 on Nov 8, 2019 |
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Nov 8, 2019 20:00
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Yeah, not to dive too deep into another movie here, but Us didn't connect with audiences because the theme was too abstract and nebulous in a way that Get Out wasn't. You can't watch Get Out and not understand that it's about racism, but a looooot of people just didn't get Us on any level. I think Get Out is too direct with its message and Us is too obfuscated, and Peele really needs to find the happy medium to take his work up to the level of greatness he's so close to. Sad that this movie won't get anywhere near the number of viewers because of subtitles, being a foreign film, etc, because it's the kind of movie general audiences can connect to and will resonate with.
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Nov 8, 2019 20:13
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Bottom Liner posted:Yeah, not to dive too deep into another movie here, but Us didn't connect with audiences because the theme was too abstract and nebulous in a way that Get Out wasn't. You can't watch Get Out and not understand that it's about racism, but a looooot of people just didn't get Us on any level. I think Get Out is too direct with its message and Us is too obfuscated, and Peele really needs to find the happy medium to take his work up to the level of greatness he's so close to. Yeah, I hope I didn't come off overly critical, I like Us and am happy that it exists. I just think Parasite is one of the best films of the decade, possibly an all-time great. Us is just really really good with some obvious flaws, at least for me.
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Nov 8, 2019 20:19
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Majkol posted:I disagree. I thought the Kims were fantastic, as was the dynamic between the housekeeper and her husband. They were incredibly humane. I actually do agree with you that Us isn't a perfect depiction of class conflict, but I appreciate it more because of that. I found that Us' messiness was more evocative than Parasite, even if Parasite is a more "correct" depiction on the same kind of theme. For instance, I don't disagree with your example that the Kims have a more authentic familial relationship than the Parks. However, the way it's depicted in the movie is kind of rote. You see the Kims show authentic signs of affection, while the Parks do weird roleplay and there are scene where Mr. Park all but explicitly says, "I don't really love my wife." The point is made - and it's an interesting point, don't get me wrong - but it just feels like those scenes are not depictions of characters, but an aesthetic argument. The Kims are point, the Parks are counterpoint. I found that Us has a stronger sense of who its characters are, and because of that its themes are a little less clear and more engaging. For example, the crux of the whole plot is that the Wilsons' Tethered are holding them accountable for a crime they didn't know about. That immediately raises an ambiguous situation. The fact that they're permitted to live comfortably while the Tethered aren't is a problem, but at the same time the Wilsons are affable, kind, and thoughtful people. We want them to not be responsible Can ignorance be a defense for them? If them movie was more like Parasite, they would have been depicted in a much more negative light, I think.
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Nov 8, 2019 20:22
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Bottom Liner posted:No, the last shot after that cuts back to him writing that letter saying that's what his plan was, but showing that it was just a fantasy of how he hopes it would play out (it won't) It doesn’t cut to that, it fades to black, then fades up to him writing the letter. It’s a simple trick but good lord it gives such a massive punch to the gut, since everything points to the film ending on that fade-to-black. And... apparently there are theaters who thought it really did, lol.
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Nov 8, 2019 20:24
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I mean, it's not like theaters roll a separate file for credits, if the film ended at that fade and didn't show the last part, that's just how the file delivered to the theater was 
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Nov 8, 2019 20:38
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