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danbanana posted:You're posting this in an X-Men thread. My Hot Take: the ratio of good-to-bad for FF probably isn't far off from the X-books. And the sheer volume of bad X-books is crazy. Maybe, just because when X-Men books are bad there's like 6-12 x-books being published a month. Lee/Kirby Fantastic Four is probably the pinnacle Silver age comics, then it's alternately boring and loving horrible until Waid's run. Then you have a great Morrison mini, a decent Mark Millar run, then loving Hickman. X-Men runs super hot and cold. Lee/Kirby again to start and that stuff is "fine." Invented a lot of characters we love, but we love them for stuff (mostly Claremont) did with them later. Then you have the Claremont Era which I think is the best example of Bronze age comics, then Leifield and Lee got on the book and the loving 90s happen. But then we had Morrison, we had Whedon (who I hate as a person, but his Astonishing was a good book), Mike Carey, Matt Fraction, Kieron Gillen, other people I'm forgetting. But there's probably more good short bursts of X-comics in that era than Fantastic Four, but there's also more bad ones because Fantastic Four is 1 book a month, or two when they publish Future Force, and after 1991 there's between 2-12 X books a month.
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May 6, 2021 23:25
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I think the important thing that we can agree on is that there is way more good X-books and F4 than there is good Avengers
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May 6, 2021 23:32
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OnimaruXLR posted:I think the important thing that we can agree on is that there is way more good X-books and F4 than there is good Avengers I don't remember the code for the fist bump emoji, but fist bump emoji.
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May 6, 2021 23:35
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Am I completely misremembering or didn't Fabian Nicieza have an Avengers run that was pretty good? Rick Remender's Uncanny Avengers was good (you could argue this is an X-Book), as was Ewing's USAvengers (you could argue this is an X-Book as well because Sunspot steals the show as always). There was an Avengers run from I think the early 90's that I liked back when I was a child, but I remember literally nothing of it now, which...actually probably means it was terrible.
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May 7, 2021 01:21
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Gologle posted:Am I completely misremembering or didn't Fabian Nicieza have an Avengers run that was pretty good? Rick Remender's Uncanny Avengers was good (you could argue this is an X-Book), as was Ewing's USAvengers (you could argue this is an X-Book as well because Sunspot steals the show as always). There was an Avengers run from I think the early 90's that I liked back when I was a child, but I remember literally nothing of it now, which...actually probably means it was terrible. Pre Hickman Busiek and Bendis are pretty much the only good Avengers writers in the last thirty years. Post Hickman there's been a lot of good Avengers books.
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May 7, 2021 01:29
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Gologle posted:Am I completely misremembering or didn't Fabian Nicieza have an Avengers run that was pretty good? He had a very short run (#317-325) in between Byrne and Larry Hama (also a very short run). The first two issues wrap up Byrne's stuff, then the rest are a vaguely time-killery arc about the Avengers messing around with the Peoples' Protectorate and Alpha Flight and Atlanteans to fight a different group of Russian people (the Peace Corpse!!) and some kind of evil dimension. In my opinion it's nothing to write home about and I've rarely seen it discussed though-- maybe you're thinking of Kurt Busiek?
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May 7, 2021 02:19
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I am indeed probably thinking of Busiek. I miss Busiek and Nicieza together 
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May 7, 2021 03:16
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Skwirl posted:Pre Hickman Busiek and Bendis are pretty much the only good Avengers writers in the last thirty years. Post Hickman there's been a lot of good Avengers books. All of those are over thirty years old, but that itself is a weird thing with those two exceptions, as Busiek was the main Avengers writer from December 1997 to July 2002, Bendis was the main Avengers writer from July 2004 to November 2012, and Hickman started the following month. So that three decades of lovely Avengers comics is like... the middle part of the 1990s and two years of Geoff Johns and Chuck Austen between Busiek and Bendis. Busiek and Bendis wrote the Avengers for almost fifteen years combined. If you're going back thirty years from when Hickman took over, then you get all of the aforementioned Stern comics. The sheer volume of X-Books over the past 35-40 years is going to guarantee there are more good X-books, more bad X-books, more mediocre X-books, just more of them in general.
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May 7, 2021 04:01
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Yeah, I mostly meant 90's Avengers was poo poo.
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May 7, 2021 10:13
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Aphrodite posted:In any case, Dan Slott ain't one of the good ones. On anything. Hey now, his She-Hulk run is pretty good. And let's not forget about his uhhhhh... I guess that's it, really.
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May 7, 2021 13:29
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JordanKai posted:Hey now, his She-Hulk run is pretty good. And let's not forget about his uhhhhh... His Silver Surfer run with the Allreds was a sweet, fun little series.
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May 7, 2021 13:44
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Okay maybe, but that was also just Doctor Who.
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May 7, 2021 13:51
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Aphrodite posted:Okay maybe, but that was also just Doctor Who. Yeah it was great
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May 7, 2021 13:54
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I don't get why people bring up his Silver Surfer being superficially similar to Doctor Who as a knock against it. 1) It's not like Doctor Who is super easy to write for. I've seen a lot more dumb and boring episodes of it than I have good ones, even if I think the good ones are often really special. If Dan Slott is in fact good at writing Doctor Who, that's great for him, it seems like a hard but rewarding thing to be good at. 2) Responding to good, say, Fantastic Four runs with like, "yeah, nice Fantastic Four run... too bad it's just Challengers of the Unknown" doesn't say much of any substance, I don't think, about either the Fantastic Four or the Challengers of the Unknown, it's just positing that similarity and derivation are a priori bad, which is an awfully strange thing to believe in a genre so heavily predicated on homage, riffing, and narrative bricolage.
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May 7, 2021 14:38
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How Wonderful! posted:I don't get why people bring up his Silver Surfer being superficially similar to Doctor Who as a knock against it. I read very little of Slott's Silver Surfer and the entirety of my firsthand knowledge of Doctor Who is watching old Tom Baker episodes with my dad as a kid, so I don't know how similar the two properties are, but my general impression of "Doctor Who" is that it's not very much like the Silver Surfer as handled in the six decades prior to Slott's run. If you liked the Silver Surfer before Slott, it's possible that seeing all of the praise being heaped upon Slott's run for 'finally making the Silver Surfer work!" when it bears little semblance to the character/concept they're 'fixing' can be annoying. I know this has happened a lot over the years and is part of doing a big shared universe, and there have been a fair number of "I finally get the appeal of [Hawkeye/Vision/Moon Knight]!" books in recent memory, but I could also see how someone would get annoyed if they just completely revamped the character of Gambit so that he's a mob boss having anxiety attacks and secretly seeing a shrink about it and hiding it from his families. It could be a really well written book, people wouldcomplain that it's just doing The Sopranos but with Gambit, others would say "yeah but The Sopranos is great, so who cares?" and the first group would still be annoyed that it doesn't resemble the character of Gambit that they like. Other people would insist that this is the first time they've ever cared about Gambit, so Gambit fans should be grateful anyone is reading a Gambit book. Being super reductive to the level of "uhh a superhero who is a lawyer? Daredevil was created in 1963, anything after that is just a lovely ripoff" is obviously nuts though.
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May 7, 2021 15:11
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From what I recall the similarities between that Silver Surfer run and Doctor Who were basically "a gentle space wanderer takes a human girl around on episodic space adventures" which is, you know, not necessarily baked into the character's premise from day one but has a pedigree going back to at least his dynamic with Alicia Masters.
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May 7, 2021 15:37
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How Wonderful! posted:From what I recall the similarities between that Silver Surfer run and Doctor Who were basically "a gentle space wanderer takes a human girl around on episodic space adventures" which is, you know, not necessarily baked into the character's premise from day one but has a pedigree going back to at least his dynamic with Alicia Masters.
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May 7, 2021 16:37
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I can't point to any one story and say "Slott stole that from Doctor Who" but the fairytale vibe that pervaded a lot of the stories in general, and Dawn's arc in particular, felt very much like something Davies or Moffat would've written for the Doctor Who revival.
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May 7, 2021 16:52
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Beginning of volume 8 shares a lot with the final Tennant episodes, but also Sauron's plan not to cure cancer.
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May 7, 2021 17:04
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I feel compelled to stick up for the Simonson and McDuffie runs on FF, sadly short though they are.
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May 7, 2021 17:19
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I think the 'X-Men aren't heroes' thing comes from a (right or wrong) perception that the Krakoa era has them downplaying helping humanity other than the vague powerplay stuff with the drugs. I can certainly see how a vibe of them only helping people if they're mutants can be offputting, especially when readers likely have a visceral reaction to it, seeing as we're, y'know, humans and it sucks if you feel like the heroes in your superhero story wouldn't help you just because of your genes.
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May 7, 2021 18:05
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Dawgstar posted:I feel compelled to stick up for the Simonson and McDuffie runs on FF, sadly short though they are. In the same vein, Millar's short run on FF is one of the few things by him I actually enjoy.
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May 7, 2021 18:38
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Dawgstar posted:I feel compelled to stick up for the Simonson and McDuffie runs on FF, sadly short though they are. Yeah, I realized I left those out after I made my post. I wish both runs were longer.
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May 7, 2021 18:56
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https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1390739650348818440 Looks like some poo poo's going down post-Gala.
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May 7, 2021 20:47
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Well, thanks for spoiling it, Marvel Twitter.
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May 7, 2021 21:53
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Gaz-L posted:I think the 'X-Men aren't heroes' thing comes from a (right or wrong) perception that the Krakoa era has them downplaying helping humanity other than the vague powerplay stuff with the drugs. I can certainly see how a vibe of them only helping people if they're mutants can be offputting, especially when readers likely have a visceral reaction to it, seeing as we're, y'know, humans and it sucks if you feel like the heroes in your superhero story wouldn't help you just because of your genes. Having read a lot of the last few arcs of X-books, though, a lot of this is just kind of... geostatic rebound. I wonder if some of the reaction is because people have mostly known X-books, for well over a decade, to be about torturing and genociding mutants and the X-Men just pressing on on autopilot despite that.
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May 7, 2021 22:04
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Have you been reading Marauders? A huge point of that book is that they help everyone in need, both mutant and human. The King in Black tie in was them saving a bunch of humans being human trafficked at the expense of Cyclops and Storm staying venomized.
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May 7, 2021 22:12
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Skwirl posted:Have you been reading Marauders? A huge point of that book is that they help everyone in need, both mutant and human. The King in Black tie in was them saving a bunch of humans being human trafficked at the expense of Cyclops and Storm staying venomized. they also helped during Empyrian the reason people think they didn't is, all those events were poo poo and people just dropped them
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May 8, 2021 15:15
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Imagining Sopranos but everyone has a Cajun accent
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May 8, 2021 17:35
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danbanana posted:https://twitter.com/Marvel/status/1390739650348818440 "Double jeopardy, bitch." And Magneto c-walks out of the courtroom.
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May 8, 2021 23:36
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Wasn’t the first trial thrown out because of deaging shenanigans?
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May 8, 2021 23:43
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Open Marriage Night posted:Wasn’t the first trial thrown out because of deaging shenanigans? Yup.
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May 8, 2021 23:49
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Endless Mike posted:Imagining Sopranos but everyone has a Cajun accent
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May 8, 2021 23:56
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They’ll finally nail Magneto on tax fraud
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May 9, 2021 00:46
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It might also be possible instead of like, a legal trial, it's more of a physical trial that he has to go through.
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May 9, 2021 02:05
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How many hot dogs can Magneto eat in 1 hour?!
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May 9, 2021 02:14
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Abroham Lincoln posted:How many hot dogs can Magneto eat in 1 hour?! Does Eric keep kosher? That might limit the type used.
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May 9, 2021 02:35
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thetoughestbean posted:They’ll finally nail Magneto on tax fraud And the dark secret of mutant/Krakoa society comes to light: they have a flat tax.
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May 9, 2021 02:38
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It’s a nice touch bringing back John Romita Jr as a link between this and the first trial.
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May 9, 2021 03:35
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https://twitter.com/KrakoaWelcomes/status/1259530492912832512?s=20
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May 9, 2021 17:25
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