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Herstory Begins Now posted:Literally the only people I've met who really seem to conceive of being rich as 'doing nothing and quitting their job' are fuckup children of the very rich who just want to play videogames all day and give companies thousands of dollars in microtransactions. IDK who else the idea of doing nothing really, meaningfully exists for. People try to find meaning in their lives because the alternative is depressing to them. I'd argue that it's worse for someone to work when they don't have to. It's selfish they're taking money from someone else who would be in that job. Don't get me wrong I don't work because I don't want to work but working doesn't necessarily make you some how better than someone who chooses not to (sure you can consider yourself better if it's charity work). Got to produce. PRODUCE MORE! What a great capitalistic move convincing people to see their own self worth as a reflection of their work. That's fine, like it's fine if that's what you want but judging others for not? No that's crap to make yourself feel better. I don't need a "meaningful" existence, and that's perfectly fine. Also people seem to see retirement as a goal, so I'm not so sure "doing nothing" is such an alien ideal. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 02:10 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 01:50
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Lots of people don't want to fully retire and most people in retirement do have hobbies. Otherwise they become bitter old assholes who watch Fox News all loving day and get estranged from their families. Many retired people volunteer or garden or knit or cook or write or paint or travel or take care of the grandkids or do all sorts of things to keep themselves occupied. Not wanting to do anything at all is a symptom of mental illness. It's not because everyone is searching for meaning in vain or some poo poo, it's because doing things is, like, the main point of being alive. I get people who say "I wish I could play video games all day" inasmuch as I believe they mean "I wish I had the option of playing video games all day" not necessarily that they would actually do it. And it's not capitalistic to say that people typically enjoy doing poo poo. One of the great things about socialist societies is that they offer a great deal of supports to the arts, to athletes, etc. so people can pursue their passions and talents. Honestly, one of the best and most unique things about being rich is that you can do the things you want to do regardless of how they're compensated by a capitalist society. And you can afford the barriers to entry to pretty much anything! I mean, that's a wonderful thing, and anyone in that circumstance is so incredibly lucky compared to most people who exist or who have ever existed. But if you told me my only options were to watch TV and/or play video games, I'd consider suicide. Those things, though I do enjoy them, are recreation, not something I could do for an extended period of time. PT6A fucked around with this message at 02:22 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 02:19
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PT6A posted:Lots of people don't want to fully retire and most people in retirement do have hobbies. Otherwise they become bitter old assholes who watch Fox News all loving day and get estranged from their families. Many retired people volunteer or garden or knit or cook or write or paint or travel or take care of the grandkids or do all sorts of things to keep themselves occupied. Not wanting to do anything at all is a symptom of mental illness. I hadn't realized knitting and cooking were acceptable activities while TV/video games were not. Please tell me how much of x activity I can do a day I'd hate for some judgmental rear end in a top hat on the internet to think I'm doing it wrong. You know what I think? If what you're doing is enjoyable to yourself and doesn't harm others then it doesn't matter what it is you enjoy. I'm sure I could find some exceptions to this, and what exactly qualifies as harm could be argued but I feel it's a good general rule. Anyway I'm on season 4 of Bob's Burgers and think I might continue that, or maybe I'll watch some youtube videos, or maybe I'll just masturbate. Hmmmm choices. edit: Looks like I'm going with surf the internet some.
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Nov 19, 2019 04:39
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Yeah, things with an actual result of some sort are qualitatively different from things without one, I'm sorry you can't appreciate that distinction. It's why Roger Ebert was different from a guy that just watches a bunch of movies, and why professional gamers are different from people who poopsock WoW. I mean, I suppose as long as you aren't harming anyone, you can do whatever you like, but frankly an existence consisting of nothing with any goal or end product sounds absolutely miserable to me. PT6A fucked around with this message at 04:53 on Nov 19, 2019 |
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Nov 19, 2019 04:51
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It is worth bringing up though--posters on this forum sometimes lose this perspective. Posters have unironically posted stuff about how their white collar job is more taxing than manual labor and have posted stuff about how the life of a medieval European peasant was better than a low class/middle class American today. I think a lot of politics posters on this forum get caught up in all of this stuff about how they and everybody else is a victim of society (which to be clear, is definitely true to some extent) and as a result they develop a bit of a persecution complex.
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Nov 19, 2019 13:46
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I don't quite get the connection between pointing out someone being a hypocrite for buying a luxury product that has many other options in the marketplace and only demands high pricing mainly due to marketing an "image" (instead of their profits going to the factory workers), and literally having to work to survive. If anything it's almost insulting to compare the two. Unless that's the joke?
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Nov 19, 2019 14:53
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I think the main point being made is that partaking or enabling an unjust system doesn't magically nullify criticisms of it. I'm from a pretty privileged background and I've got a few relatives who always respond to me suggesting that the current tax system isn't fair or that socialist politicians could improve people's lives with 'it's easy to be a socialist when you've got money, working people want to do well'. The Apple example leaves the guy with other options but the fact that he gave money to Apple for one of their products doesn't mean his criticism is invalid or should be silenced. It's an easy deflection that is just designed to shut down the discussion or make it about the person criticising the unjust system/practices instead of those injustices. *With the universal caveat that there are cases where this kind of attack is justified where it shows clear bad faith in the part of the criticiser e.g. Trolling
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Nov 19, 2019 15:28
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Everyone with an iPhone, of course, buys a brand new latest model at full price right (Or do some posters not understand how poor people acquire phones, hmmm)
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Nov 19, 2019 16:19
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silence_kit posted:It is worth bringing up though--posters on this forum sometimes lose this perspective. Posters have unironically posted stuff about how their white collar job is more taxing than manual labor and have posted stuff about how the life of a medieval European peasant was better than a low class/middle class American today. To be fair, office jobs in poo poo working environments absolutely can be far, far worse than a manual labour job. There are a lot of manual labour jobs where you finish the day feeling tired but healthy, have a shower, then have your full mental faculties to enjoy the evening. Finish your thirteen hours in an open plan office and you might well be an exhausted wreck who has not done anything more strenuous than lift a coffee mug all day but is functionally spent.
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Nov 19, 2019 18:24
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Got to go to the luxury lodge owned by a friend of a friend in his early 30s who out of high school started an online auto parts company and made bank. Fun for a while to hang out until he expressed outrage at that “n-word” expecting him to pay taxes for the Affordable Care Act. Not a good guy!
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Nov 19, 2019 20:11
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MrNemo posted:I think the main point being made is that partaking or enabling an unjust system doesn't magically nullify criticisms of it. I'm from a pretty privileged background and I've got a few relatives who always respond to me suggesting that the current tax system isn't fair or that socialist politicians could improve people's lives with 'it's easy to be a socialist when you've got money, working people want to do well'. But how is it wrong to call someone out for supporting a company that does things they don’t agree with? It’s like someone saying how they support gay rights while eating chick fil a, someone can and probably should call them out on it when there are plenty of viable alternatives that don’t contribute to questionable causes (yeah I know, no ethical consumption and all that). I realize that it’s much harder with technology like smartphones since the alternatives are just as bad. The car analogy is a bad one because adding safety features were probably selling points and therefore became popular with consumers, the companies that did not install them would go out of business. It’s the opposite for phones as the manufacturing is behind the scenes, as long as consumers continue to buy them then there is no incentive for companies to improve conditions and refusing to buy the product is the only real way we can make any real impact. But again, those are products where people can find alternatives. If a poor person living on minimum wage is complaining about how tough life is, that’s not hypocritical since he likely has no alternative except to quit and be in an even worse position. It just seems very insulting comparing the two.
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Nov 20, 2019 00:52
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Original_Z posted:But how is it wrong to call someone out for supporting a company that does things they don’t agree with? It’s like someone saying how they support gay rights while eating chick fil a The fact that that person supports that company doesn't make what they're saying wrong though. You can criticise them for supporting that company, but it's not a counterargument to whatever they're saying. The example given on Wikipedia is of a smoker advising others not to smoke as it's bad for them. They're right, and the fact that they don't take their own advice doesn't change that. You can call them a hypocrite if you like, but that doesn't mean they're wrong.
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Nov 20, 2019 01:05
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jonathan posted:[...] for most people who get rich, the money itself is secondary to the goal of being productive. And even when the money comes in, they see the money as a tool. Like it's a piece of farm equipment or a pry bar. Was going to post an anecdote relating to this. I worked for a ~$500 million dollar company for a little bit where I got to know some of the people in upper-management and C-level quite well. The CEO was in his late 40's, worked his way up over 20 years and been in the role for 5, was getting a bit under $1 million per year along with bonuses around $2-3 million a year. So more than enough to retire comfortably (and at a good age) but speaking to him and his C-level colleagues I realised the same thing: the work and career progression up the ladder was the reward unto itself and the reason they were still putting in 12 -hour days at the office. Like the office/work was their WoW addiction figuratively speaking. As for the whole "I wish I could play video games all day", I think it's more a figure of speech. I finished up my last job in July with a bit in savings but then quickly realised I've still got to: pay rent, look for another job, be in town for said job interviews, do my share of house duties etc. I had the time and money to jet off to Malaysia or Mexico for a few months and just go diving every day and drink beers by the beach (which I really wanted to do) but I was constrained by the fact that I had no secure income for the future. That's really the crux of it, when you're rich the future is a secure and managed thing, and therefore the present can be whatever you want to be. You can play WoW all day/enroll in a Fine Arts degree/try go pro in some obscure sport, but barring a medical disaster it doesn't matter what the outcome of those activities is. Where-as I'd end up on the street if I had jetted-off and come back with no savings and no secure job. Jomo fucked around with this message at 06:15 on Nov 20, 2019 |
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Nov 20, 2019 06:07
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Patrat posted:To be fair, office jobs in poo poo working environments absolutely can be far, far worse than a manual labour job. There are a lot of manual labour jobs where you finish the day feeling tired but healthy, have a shower, then have your full mental faculties to enjoy the evening. Finish your thirteen hours in an open plan office and you might well be an exhausted wreck who has not done anything more strenuous than lift a coffee mug all day but is functionally spent. This is pretty emphatically not true in the least. Manual labor loving destroys peoples' bodies in a matter of years. What you're thinking of are people in the trades who, while they have some manual component to their work, are usually doing a fraction of what actual laborers do. Even they still very frequently end up with health problems, too and it's about as mentally draining as anything else really. quote:you finish the day feeling tired but healthy, have a shower, then have your full mental faculties to enjoy the evening. Yeah that's really not how you feel at the end of a day and like I'm 99% sure I've never heard someone doing unskilled labor describe feeling that way at the end of the day. It's more likely, 'my feet and hands and back hurt, im hungry, pissed off, and exhausted, I had to deal with a dipshit boss, and I'm not even making enough to pay basic fuckin bills.' There's a reason why basically anyone who does manual labor resolves in a very serious way to stop doing it/specialize into something less lovely as soon as they remotely have the means and opportunity to
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Nov 20, 2019 13:56
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Jomo posted:Was going to post an anecdote relating to this. I worked for a ~$500 million dollar company for a little bit where I got to know some of the people in upper-management and C-level quite well. The CEO was in his late 40's, worked his way up over 20 years and been in the role for 5, was getting a bit under $1 million per year along with bonuses around $2-3 million a year. So more than enough to retire comfortably (and at a good age) but speaking to him and his C-level colleagues I realised the same thing: the work and career progression up the ladder was the reward unto itself and the reason they were still putting in 12 -hour days at the office. Like the office/work was their WoW addiction figuratively speaking. You're not rich but us poors actually don't have the means to spontaneously fly off to a third-world country and live like a king for a while. I don't mean "because I have bills to pay" I mean "there has never been enough money to do that in my bank account at one time." Finishing a job with savings or getting a diving cert are loving dreams down here in prole land.
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Nov 20, 2019 15:40
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Herstory Begins Now posted:This is pretty emphatically not true in the least. Manual labor loving destroys peoples' bodies in a matter of years. What you're thinking of are people in the trades who, while they have some manual component to their work, are usually doing a fraction of what actual laborers do. Even they still very frequently end up with health problems, too and it's about as mentally draining as anything else really. Not even only unskilled labor. My partner is a skilled craft worker with two decades of experience, that involves a lot of manual labor, and he is wiped at the end of the day, and has physical health issues that are either a direct result of or worsened by the work. Combine that with working with a pack of assholes on the floor, and while he enjoys the actual craft itself enough to do side jobs for the hell of it, he is trying to get into one of the office jobs for the same company now that one has opened up, because his body and mind just can't take it full time anymore.
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Nov 20, 2019 16:46
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Not even only unskilled labor. My partner is a skilled craft worker with two decades of experience, that involves a lot of manual labor, and he is wiped at the end of the day, and has physical health issues that are either a direct result of or worsened by the work. Combine that with working with a pack of assholes on the floor, and while he enjoys the actual craft itself enough to do side jobs for the hell of it, he is trying to get into one of the office jobs for the same company now that one has opened up, because his body and mind just can't take it full time anymore. Yeah you're 1000% right and I was mostly trying to be charitably not a dick in calling that post out for being comically out of touch. There's a reason why the vast majority of people will preferentially take any old lovely office job over going into the trades (much less into manual labor). Office jobs might destroy your body through inactivity, but all labor with a physical component destroys your body either acutely in accidents/injuries or through repetitive use injuries that may just destroy your ability to work at any time.
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Nov 20, 2019 23:35
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Herstory Begins Now posted:Yeah you're 1000% right and I was mostly trying to be charitably not a dick in calling that post out for being comically out of touch. There's a reason why the vast majority of people will preferentially take any old lovely office job over going into the trades (much less into manual labor). Office jobs might destroy your body through inactivity, but all labor with a physical component destroys your body either acutely in accidents/injuries or through repetitive use injuries that may just destroy your ability to work at any time. I agree. I have friends who've had their bodies essentially destroyed even by skilled manual labour, and now they're getting "tapered" off the Oxycontin that helps them function in daily life because a bunch of people have a drug problem. That being said, a lot of white-collar workers have awful working conditions that are mentally destructive in their own way, and instead of making this a discussion of who has it worse (it's the blue-collar workers, no question) we should be talking about how to make sure everyone has jobs that care for their physical and mental health. No one should suffer a job that destroys them in any sense. and we shouldn't have a fight over who has it worse, because none of us should have it that bad.
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Nov 21, 2019 03:22
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Not every blue collar physical job is working in a mine or whatever, that’s a lot that doesn’t destroy your body. I delivered packages for a while and it was enjoyable if mindless work that kept me on my feet for 8 hours a day but didn’t give me any kind of lasting health problems. If compensation was equal between that and some cube drone job I’d rather do that. E: above poster is right though, this is in many ways a dumb digression. \/ I guess what I meant to say is that there are blue collar jobs that are not worse for your body than the health risks that come with a cube job (RSI, heart disease, etc.) Fill Baptismal fucked around with this message at 21:48 on Nov 21, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 08:35
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Kill Bristol posted:Not every blue collar physical job is working in a mine or whatever, that’s a lot that doesn’t destroy your body. I delivered packages for a while and it was enjoyable if mindless work that kept me on my feet for 8 hours a day but didn’t give me any kind of lasting health problems. If compensation was equal between that and some cube drone job I’d rather do that. My understanding is that yes a life delivering packages does indeed do damage to your body. Really do whatever makes you the most happy (overall, including you know needing money to survive/support family), but do be aware of the health risks given your profession. Sitting around in a chair all day isn't the most healthy thing. (I say as I sit around in a chair all day posting on the internet). Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 22:34 on Nov 22, 2019 |
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Nov 21, 2019 19:10
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Herstory Begins Now posted:/\ Yeah that all rings extremely true. The stuff about a lot of them not being able to handle even the smallest inconveniences really brought a lot back. I've seen grown adults throwing tantrums over the tiniest things, like their children giving them birthday presents wrapped incorrectly 'you know I like bows, why didn't it have a bow!' Yeah, sorry for the delay in replying to this. I'm in the process of changing out of my stable job to go back into freelance chef work, and I felt this deserved a reply that wasn't typed out in stickies on my phone on the train  I have no idea what you did for that kind of work, but I at least kind of was "compartmentalized" due to the nature of well, I was the cook/chef/whatever you want to call it (I've long since stopped caring about those titles). But like the EA's or other executive level assistants, or the estate managers? No idea how they did their job everyday without either being totally manic, or just xanax'd out 24/7. The profile for EA's that I saw was usually a 20-something year old attractive male/female that was definitely of above average intelligence, a logistics elemental, and kinda thrived on the just "controlled chaos" of it all. Most estate managers I've met seemed to really have their internal dialogue about everything pre-sorted though, and treated it like a job they were highly dedicated to. I still keep in touch with a few I've interacted with and get drinks once or twice a year. After almost a decade in Michelin kitchens, I still don't think even the best Chef's I've worked for have poo poo on an OG estate manager that's basically responsible for making sure someone with unlimited resources (their employer) doesn't do anything that reflects poorly on them, while simultaneously running their lives for them and keeping that relationship with the Principal intact/positive. RE: Desperately needing the work/not worth being around. For me personally, absolutely. But I'm also a hippy at heart, have fantasized about living "off the grid/land" since I was 15 years old, and really only got out of kitchens because my wife of 9 years is super rad, and one of my brothers had a life altering injury that just totally changed my perspective and priorities in life. Like to me what I used to get out of tweezer food, I get out of hanging out with my family now. Kind of hosed up it took what it took to get here, but that's a different tangent. But back to the point, I think for people who genuinely don't have outside ties it's a phenomenal opportunity on multiple fronts to work for some of these people. If you can separate the poo poo you see and treat it with a punch in/punch out kind of mentality, it can literally mean class mobility in ways I haven't really seen in many other sectors of American society outside of like, tech. But then again, I've spent the better part of the past 20 years working 80+ hours/week in kitchens so maybe I just haven't seen much. I dunno. RE: Random thoughts Oh yeah, if the Trump voting CHUDs saw how the people he gave this last round of tax cuts to LIVE DAILY? Hahahahahaha. The "personal freedom/taxation is slavery" argument would be moot. Full loving stop. There wouldn't even be a debate. It's one thing to think "oh billionaires etc etc", it's *totally* different to see it day in/day out, as it seems like you know better than I do. They're basically what they think "coastal elites" are, or whatever. gently caress if I want to understand the mind of a CHUD. The physical abuse poo poo is pretty wack. I'm not sure how I'd have reacted to that. Who the gently caress do you even report that to? Like the cops? LOL. Dude, I can't even imagine the cops rolling up to be greeted by private security at the 2 households I worked for. Like, first off, both houses were loving urban compounds. The first couple I worked for, short of court order there's no way cops would have even been allowed/physically capable of forcing their way in to speak with the couple. The second family, if someone had called the cops it'd have been an "instagram stories" kinda event, where everyone's drinking wine and asking the cops about their jobs while they bullshit and have me make them passed apps while they do their "interrogation". It's a crazy bubble to be in. It certainly wasn't the "private chef" holy grail work I'd heard it hyped up to be prior to actually getting thrown in the mix. I dunno. Still to this day I half wish I was just wired differently, because the peripheral perks/benefits to both of those jobs were *insane*. Like I could have for real been the first step in changing my family's economic status/wealth into something entirely different if I had stuck with it. But I just couldn't, both jobs made me a total mess on a variety of different levels. I dunno, now when I hear cooks fantasizing about "the dream" I don't say poo poo, kinda chuckle to myself, and think "Careful what you ask for. 'Buy the ticket, take the ride' and all that. Sometimes that can get pretty fuckin' weird."
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Nov 23, 2019 05:10
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tokyo reject posted:Yeah, sorry for the delay in replying to this. I'm in the process of changing out of my stable job to go back into freelance chef work, and I felt this deserved a reply that wasn't typed out in stickies on my phone on the train I think you're giving too much credit to Trump supporters. They're just temporary displaced billionares and will surely get there if it wasn't for minorites, liberals, whatetever hate filled reason. The American dream is a joke these days. Duck and Cover fucked around with this message at 19:38 on Nov 23, 2019 |
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Nov 23, 2019 19:14
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Rich, I guess, is subjective based on where you live. I grew up where there wasn't much wealth so, while I had an a middle to upper-middle class family in a nice neighborhood, we had more than most and the fact we traveled projected the image that we were loaded. The reason we traveled as we did was in large part because of my mom's health, as her attitude was very YOLO following Stage IV breast cancer in 1994 (which a local surgeon erroneously called terminal and wouldn’t treat; she went to OSU for treatment and beat it). She also started buying investment properties to distract her from tests every 3 months which could've revealed another diagnosis, a distraction which slowly created wealth. I never wanted to have a "rich kid" image, tried to be nice to everybody and, other than some ribbing from one friend (who was a smart-rear end in general), I had friends and was accepted. One of my best friends from childhood came from dysfunction, which I was sensitive to (our moms got along really well in spite of the financial difference). There were certainly families with more; they indulged with bigger houses or Country Club memberships, a Club we never joined because my grandpa had the means to apply at one point, only to be turned down because he ran a machine company and was blue-collar. I also despised the Club group because one of the kids started a rumor that the aforementioned friend and I were a gay couple which, in my hilljack town, got you looked at funny even though both of us were, in fact, straight. So, fast-forward 20 years: PT6A posted:My lifestyle is very similar to being middle class, except there's exceptionally low pressure by comparison. I don't have to worry about missing loan payments or credit card interest or dealing with unexpected expenses (though it still requires cutbacks in other areas, obviously -- you don't stay rich for long if you don't have some sort of budget), but I can't just spend money on anything that attracts my fancy. I've seen people richer than me blow through all their money on stupid poo poo and I don't want that to be me, so I keep my expenses reasonably low and I still hold down one normal job and do some freelancing on the side. ^This^ is basically me. The first 2-3 investment properties my mom bought became a full-blown business over time, which I jumped in just before graduating high school (2006). The money is nice and sufficient to support myself, but not massive, and I can’t overindulge (probably just as well, as I’m a cheap-rear end). I bought a new, low-end (in terms of price, not features) luxury car earlier this year. I pay my own health insurance. If we someday transferred operations to a management company, I could possibly collect checks and do nothing (if done right) but, as PT6A said in another post, I’d also lose my loving mind if I had nothing to do. The business allows me to create my own schedule and lifestyle…which made me question my sanity when I picked up a part-time job at a college to a) get to be around aviation, which I love and b) give me a bit more of a social life. Fortunately, that job well exceeded my expectations and created a cool, albeit busy, dynamic of wearing two different hats (for a while). Money doesn’t buy happiness, though. I have my first-ever counseling session the Monday after Thanksgiving. Why? My mom has had health problems since May which only recently have been attributed to extreme stress. My brother has Lupus but was (and still is) an abusive, family-hating rear end in a top hat who couldn’t get out of his own way years before his diagnosis, which causes stress. We think my dad is starting dementia. The side gig has soured, as I’ve basically become an afterthought excluded from everything from free shirts to trips to conferences, but haven’t had the heart to quit (though I could very easily give them two weeks notice and be just fine). The “wins” I’ve had this year feel more like bullet dodges. I almost left the side gig for another, related position, but turned it down- it turned out to be a clusterfuck for my friend who did take it. And then there’s dating, which has been a dumpster fire my entire life. Since October 1st, I’ve been rejected twice, once for dating and once relationship. The girl who said no to a relationship with me said yes to one with somebody else less than a month later, which was brutal in spite of me being OK with the rejection after “the talk”; she's aware I'm having a rough go of it and has reached out with well wishes a couple times when I've been under the weather, which I've genuinely appreciated, but she's also (probably) unaware she's unintentionally the trigger which influenced seeking therapy. The girl I asked out initially accepted, strung me along for 2 weeks, and then reversed course. I’ve thrown everything but the loving sink at trying to find someone and nothing ever leads anywhere. In that span, I've been sleeping more, sometimes 13 hours on Saturdays (10-11 hours overnight, 1-2 hour nap) and have shed 10 pounds since September. TL;DR- Extra money doesn’t guarantee better quality of life. I live in a weird dynamic where life is good, but it’s not a cake walk, but I feel like I have no reason to complain because it could be much worse. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 16:54 on Nov 26, 2019 |
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Nov 24, 2019 02:02
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tokyo reject's posts reminded me of another thing readers of this thread might be interested in: Richistan, by Robert Frank. Presented as a pseudo-anthropological study of what Rich People, and the country they live in, are like. It was pretty funny when I read it back in 2012 or so, to read all these comments from people in 2007 going "Man, the economy is doing really well right now, you know?"CBJSprague24 posted:I have my first-ever counseling session the Monday after Thanksgiving. I lost about 20 or 25 pounds in the second half of 2017 just through loss of appetite, and only got into regular therapy sessions in mid-2018. It's good that the turnaround time for you is shorter. Some tips: the real thing isn't like a movie portrayal, and part of the process is learning how to use the process; it's not magic, and the results are not magical, so keep your expectations in line with merely having a good conversation; it's entirely possible that you and your counselor aren't a good fit, and you'd be best served by finding a different person. It helps. It's worth doing, and can be supportive and clarifying when you're having a difficult time, which it sounds like you are. I was fortunate enough to find, essentially by chance, a therapist who was a good fit on my first attempt. I hope you are as well.
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Nov 24, 2019 07:51
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my moisturiser cost $265, i bathe in dom perignon, and every morning my handmaid polishes my anus with a stone made from the horn of an extinct sumatran rhinoceros
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Nov 24, 2019 11:38
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Vavrek posted:tokyo reject's posts reminded me of another thing readers of this thread might be interested in: Richistan, by Robert Frank. While reading the first chapter about house hold mangers, I kept waiting for the shoe to drop in return for those $120k salaries: what kind of hours are those? It can't possibly be for 40 hours a week. Given that you always need to be available to respond, it seems like being a devop for a cheap company where youre always on pager duty to fix hopelessly out of date software/hardware well beyond your job description. 40 hours on paper is more like 80 or more and the expectation that your expertise matches the now retired engineer who originally set it up. That chapter alone left me wondering about a follow-up. Especially the part about how hard it was to find people willing to do the job in 2012 and the expectation of being a computer geek capable of keeping up with today's ever increasing IOT which I imagine attract the rich like moths to a light.
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Nov 24, 2019 15:00
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Vavrek posted:I might send this as a PM, but apparently you aren't rich enough for plat. Thanks for the input. I listened to a podcast with Dale Earnhardt, Jr. and Michael Waltrip a few months ago where mental health came up in conversation- Dale talked about chemistry sometimes not being there, while Waltrip said he probably should've gotten therapy several years ago and didn't. Fortunately, I'm using it basically as an insurance policy/security blanket; the last couple weeks haven't been bad, but I'm looking forward to strategizing managing things when they are bumpy. I had Plat, lost it when I accidentally posted a banme (somehow clicked that tag instead of NHL for a GDT a couple years ago) and haven't bought it back yet because CBJSprague24 posted:I'm a cheap-rear end ...and I keep forgetting it's an option.
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Nov 26, 2019 16:40
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Cheesus posted:Thanks! I'm gonna totally check this book out hahah. I think the desirability of being an estate manager depends entirely on the Principal. It's beyond full time, you're not only managing the Principal but also everyone else who works for the client. A big part of this I saw a lot of as well are situations where the Principal loves XYZ executive assistant/housekeeper/chef/whatever but that person happens to be highly incompetent at their job. I saw a estate managers doing a lot of other people's jobs because they couldn't get rid of/hire someone to replace the person who was supposed to be doing XYZ because the client likes them personally. Which while that happens at every job, it's highly magnified when your job is to basically lead a team to cater to someone/groups' every want and need. It spirals out pretty fast. Now imagine they own half a dozen homes, all with staff. The client travels for work, etc. Has a needy family/entourage. I mean, basically imagine if you could outsource/delegate every mundane or unpleasant task in the entirety of your life, that's on the estate manager to either handle or delegate. And a lot of these people are quirky as hell, extremely particular, and not all that rational to deal with by everyday standards. I have respect for people that can remain calm and effective when they deal with that 24/7. They also make a lot more than 120k. The guy that ran the first household I worked for got a straight up 100k bonus for Christmas when I was working there on top of his salary.
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Nov 27, 2019 02:04
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tokyo reject posted:I have respect for people that can remain calm and effective when they deal with that 24/7. They also make a lot more than 120k. The guy that ran the first household I worked for got a straight up 100k bonus for Christmas when I was working there on top of his salary. How long do these managers last? Maybe I could see giving up a few years of my life entirely for someone else at $500k+ a year, but I'd think that after certain point, no money in the world would be worth what I was giving up and putting up with.
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Nov 27, 2019 16:36
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Cheesus posted:How much did you see (or guess) that they made for salary? I don’t know what the “standard” is, but I think the word “standard” becomes situational/arbitrary at a certain point as well. Between the two households I worked for fulltime and several one off/semi-frequent-re-occurring clients I had, what was relayed to me that I trust/was totally believable was between 90k-180k/year pre-bonus (or even bonus at all.) The 100k bonus I know was fact because we were super tight and going through a huge staff turnover and went out one night and spilled our guts after I covered for a huge fuckup on his part, he just opened his Wells Fargo app after telling the story, and there it was. He was also I want to say kind of an exception, but more just like in that top tier of experience that’s managed to be on good terms and do long stints with the right people. Like his job prior to them was for a well known billionaire, for almost a decade. It’s a weird cross section of people who are experts in their fields, people who worked for someone the Principal trusts for whatever reason, and just people who basically did the equivalent of the corporate ladder. It’s not glamorous work, despite the glamorous moments. But yeah, nobody is making 500k+, I think that 250-300ish is your absolute cap outside some weird trust dynamic situations.
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Nov 28, 2019 05:28
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Similarly, nannies for the ultra rich are in very high demand and to be competitive for that requires a number of things, but if you're good looking, have some education relevant to child development, preferably multilingual, etc. and have several years of experience and good references and a clean record the money gets pretty drat good and you definitely get to at least experience hints of the lifestyle. Still probably wildly isn't worth it, but I've heard it can be a good way to get some savings built up, though it definitely involves dealing with some of the most entitled children on earth. Most work with the ultra rich is good paying, but more along the lines of extremely good pay in trades, not like partner at a big law firm pay. Only people really getting a percentage are probably financial advisers or ex-husbands/wives
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Nov 28, 2019 11:40
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Germane to this discussion is an essay I read by Jon Ronson, examining the lives of people at six different points of income. Ostensibly each person examined has a worth six times greater than the previous subject: a dishwasher of hispanic extraction in a fancy restaurant in Miami; a suburban couple in Kansas; the author himself; a Broadway Producer; the guy who lent Jeff Bezos the cash to start Amazon; and a guy who owns about a billion self storage units. The dishwasher lived in abject poverty and given the opportunity would leave his situation in a heartbeat. The suburban couple were basically normal people who could afford to take a holiday somewhere local once a year if they saved up; not happy, but just about getting by. The author himself earned high five figures, but noted that selling a book to George Clooney to make a movie out of had substantially increased his net worth. He had plenty of middle class guilt about the whole thing. The producer was interesting: worth a small amount of millions, happily paid lots of tax, and had no illusions about her (rich) life (able to see the best specialist for her cancer treatment) and the (wealthy) life of someone like Michael Ovitz, who could keep heart surgeons on call. She opined that having more money than she had would be a source of annoyance (people wanting you to take them on holiday etc.). Jeff’s buddy realised how lucky he was. He paid basically no tax (and found it ridiculous) and did whatever the gently caress he wanted and seemed pretty smart. When asked if people ever pestered him to take them on holiday with him, he laughed and explained he hired a jumbo jet every year to take everyone he knew on awesome holidays for free and it loving ruled. The billionaire was a ‘bootstraps’ proto-boomer who believed that billionaires would just naturally give more money away than they would ever pay in tax, so should be exempt or something. The only person who seemed objectionable in any way was the billionaire.
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Nov 28, 2019 21:21
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Vavrek posted:I might send this as a PM, but apparently you aren't rich enough for plat. Thanks again for the protips. I apparently got REALLY lucky, as the counselor I was paired with seems great and she was able to get me in for a second session next Monday, plus with an NP in January. She's pretty much ruled out depression, with it probably just being general anxiety, I felt much better chatting with her and knowing additional appointments are coming, especially focused on the biggest frustrations, was a boost. Again, being well-off doesn't make you exempt from struggles/adversity/hardships/bullshit. e- Also, and I can't emphasize this enough and it's empowering to say it out loud: if you feel as though you need mental help for anything affecting your enjoyment of life, loving do it. CBJSprague24 fucked around with this message at 17:21 on Dec 4, 2019 |
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Dec 4, 2019 17:15
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Shut up Meg posted:True. That's super bizarre. You would think that they would try to do something more meaningful with their time, once they no longer have to live paycheck to paycheck. But anyway, my grandpa got somewhat rich late in his life for a while (dunno his net worth, but would guess somewhere around 5M). He had multiple vacation homes, a boat, other fancy poo poo. And I stayed with him for vacation a few times. It made me think being rich is overrated. What do you really need a big house for? It just means a bunch of extra space that's not being used. My youngest uncle (the only one who grew up rich because of a huge age gap between him and his other siblings, he's only a year older than me) went to private schools & all sorts of extra curriculars like music lessons & signed up for sports teams etc. But he grew up to be kind of a gently caress up and the least successful of his siblings (who all grew up poor), he basically always had everything he wanted handed to him and I guess never developed any internal motivation to do anything. After like 10 years of working minimum wage dead end jobs, he just recently got a job as an elementary school teacher (dunno if he'll even stick to it, he hasn't stuck to anything he's done in his life). But the real kicker is that because he was always surrounded by really rich people, due to living in a rich neighborhood and going to private schools, the dumbass had the mentality that he grew up poor. I remember I would want to punch him in the face when I talked to him and he would complain about other people having more than him growing up (because I actually DID grow up poor and had to deal with all the disadvantages that went along with it, with parents that were immigrants working minimum wage jobs, and could never help me with homework and poo poo since they couldn't speak English). When I went to his wedding, I met a bunch of his friends who had seriously rich parents. They were all nice, but were so out of touch with reality that it was insane. I think being born into a mega rich family messes with a kid's development and most of them don't know how to grow into productive adults (such as my uncle's friends). But some people who grow up in that environment go the opposite way. Like a lot of my grandpa's friends grew up super rich but they were also super down to earth and wise (But they also grew up in Korea. So maybe the difference is due to growing up super rich in America vs growing up super rich in other parts of the world?) I think if you have enough money to pay the bills & a little left over to cover for emergencies & savings, your quality of life due to money is not going to change much with more money, unless you get into super rich territory. I mean, what would I change in my life if I got a job paying me an additional $100k a year? Probably get a nicer car and then put the rest into savings. But even having a nicer car probably wouldn't matter after a while, I'd just get used to it
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Aug 16, 2020 11:53
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AngryRobotsInc posted:Not even only unskilled labor. My partner is a skilled craft worker with two decades of experience, that involves a lot of manual labor, and he is wiped at the end of the day, and has physical health issues that are either a direct result of or worsened by the work. Combine that with working with a pack of assholes on the floor, and while he enjoys the actual craft itself enough to do side jobs for the hell of it, he is trying to get into one of the office jobs for the same company now that one has opened up, because his body and mind just can't take it full time anymore. I think that's the worst part for me. I worked minimum wage jobs while paying for school/after school when I couldn't get a job cuz of the recession. And by far the part of my job I hated most was the shitheads I worked with. Almost all of them were shitheads and I hated being around them. But once I got into the corporate world, the general quality of people I worked with was so much higher.
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Aug 16, 2020 12:08
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DrunkPanda posted:I think that's the worst part for me. I worked minimum wage jobs while paying for school/after school when I couldn't get a job cuz of the recession. And by far the part of my job I hated most was the shitheads I worked with. Almost all of them were shitheads and I hated being around them. I'm not rich but I kind of want to share some of my experiences here. Growing up we were very poor, food stamps, gubberment cheeze, evicted from HUD subsidized housing (which is turbo hosed if you think about it, who the gently caress authorizes a program that evicts a working single mother of three from subsidized housing? Where do you think they are going?) and so I started working on fishing boats when I was around 15. That crew, from the youngest (me) to the oldest's (50's?) fondest goal was to get off the boat and buy a case of beer and drink it before going back out on the boat again. I'm not talking deadliest catch 10 grand in 2 weeks. I'm talking 80 hour trips for 250 bucks cash-in-hand (and yet probably marginally legal after deducting taxes, meals and etc...). Real hard menial labor doesn't leave you with a feeling of accomplishment. You haven't accomplished anything that wont need to be done again tomorrow or the next day or the next and on forever. The people you work with at that level are absolutely ready to gently caress you over for nothing. Need a couch to sleep on? Yeah sure. Your clothes falling apart? Maybe someones got an old shirt or pair of jeans you can have. Last 10 bucks in your pocket when you take off your jeans to shower? Gone. Injured on the job (fish poisoning for example)? Hope someone (parent?) will keep you alive long enough so that you can recover. Sometimes the boat owner would buy the antibiotics or pay for the stitches if there was absolutely no one else. Long story short: enlisted GI Bill, college, engineering degree, high quality research and execution, now I am in the top 5% of incomes in the US and no reason I won't retire comfortably even though I didn't really start until my mid-30s. That's not rich by US standards of rich but it's absolutely comfortably well off by most standards. So the OP asked how do you get rich? Well, you know who owns those thousands of ski houses and beach houses? Not the huge ones, just the plethora of pretty nice ones? When you see a Porsche or Bentley whose driving it? Some old guy right? Director level corporate/engineering/banking managers, senior lawyers and medical specialists (surgeons mostly). Depending on how well you climb those ladders you can certainly retire with low 8 figures and have started from nothing. It's by far the highest percentage play to real, potentially generational, wealth. There are 10's of thousands of those positions in the US.
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Aug 17, 2020 20:52
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I think that being rich really warps people's values (in most cases) and it is very hard to raise kids who aren't gently caress-ups. I used to want to be rich but the older I get the more I think that not having to worry about money and having a decent work/life trade-off is the ultimate. i am very lucky to be basically in that position and I am fully aware of how privileged I am. By not worry about money, I don't buy designer clothes, but I get them on ebay because I like good stuff. We go on nice but not extravagant holidays. We fly economy, but ticket costs don't stop us going on trips that we want to. We don't worry about going i to overdraft at the end of the month. The worry abut money that I remember well is gone, and my god, it feels great. I used to think that this wasn't being rich bui I think it definitely is, but not mega-rich. With the very rich, of whom I know a few, I see how it messes up their values, and also how many worries it brings.
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Aug 30, 2020 20:50
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My doctor friend's parents own a second house that looks like a hotel (several poorer friends can attest this is not hyperbole). They have a couple on-staff at the property at all times in addition to a gate and several cameras/alarms. My friend calls it his town house and acts like it is not a big deal. Drives me nuts. He also tried to get is to go to like an upscale steak house for lunch while we were in college. Good job, kid. Anyway, I'm genuinely fine with my Kentucky middle class life and if it weren't for the occasional bank account getting too low I probably wouldn't worry about money anymore. America is wild though and I feel like even if I made 8x as much as I make right now I'd never feel comfortable just due to how wild medical and legal bills can become.
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Aug 31, 2020 18:27
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You know that feeling when it's your last week at a job and you've already got the new one arranged, and you don't have to give any fucks because consequences don't matter? It's like that, only the consequences don't matter in any aspect of your life because you can afford to buy your way out of any fuckup imaginable.
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Sep 1, 2020 10:51
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therattle posted:We don't worry about going i to overdraft at the end of the month. I remember this all too well. My bank charging me money because I don't have enough money. What psychopath came up with this?
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Sep 2, 2020 00:11
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