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CannonFodder posted:Thanks for the LP Psycho Knight! I'm sad that I was the lone Farun vote, but oh well. If it was 3 it would have been Farun, Alfie, and Reone. I think Farun was already somewhat estranged from her family, and had been wandering for a while. As for her swinging between worldly traveler and flustered girl, I'll chalk that up to fate or kismet where she was totally fine until Itsuki showed up and her cool demeanor got flipped. Hope you enjoyed it! I didn't have anything in particular against Farun, it just felt like the writers didn't know what they wanted to do with her. They had hints to her backstory and that there might be some reason why she disowned her hometown and avoids talking to her parents, but they didn't bother to get into it. Farun just decides at one point to write back because she's in love now and Itsuki encouraged her to do it. I preferred her when she was the worldly traveler at the bar and was cool and collected. Her getting flustered by Itsuki wouldn't have been a big deal, except that the game cranks it to 11 whenever they do it. It makes it feel like Farun has two completely different personalities. And it's not even like she has "Work Farun" and "Normal Farun". Some of the scenes where she gets giddy and insane happen at the bar. As for the rest of the thread, I'm still a little dumbfounded that she only got a single vote. There was a point during her final bonding events where the thread seemed totally on board with her. I guess I overestimated the seemingly positive impressions. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- As for the LP, I'm finishing up my thoughts on the game itself now. It's not going to be a major update; I'm just going to list some pros and cons and stuff like that. The last update, at which point I will consider the LP done and over with, will hopefully be in a few days. It's just going to be a wrap-up of the final three episodes of the anime.
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Apr 12, 2020 20:25
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Psycho Knight posted:Hope you enjoyed it!
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Apr 12, 2020 21:50
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Extra Update 2: Final thoughts on the game So that was Conception Plus: Maidens of the Twelve Stars. There are only two more things left for me to do with this LP. First is to talk about the game itself. Second is to finish off that abomination of an anime adaption. But let’s do the game first.  ~Positives~ + I liked the small tweaks made to the gameplay from CII. Difficulty was still an issue, but at the very least the enemies in the game didn’t all immediately fall to a single attack. CII was a never-ending curb stomp from start to finish. There was really only one boss in that game that approached anything resembling a threat, and if you read that LP, you know which one I’m referring to. Conception PLUS strikes a better balance in terms of difficulty, although it’s still not great. The problem with difficulty in this game is the same as the problem in CII: the enemies aren’t smart enough to use the battle system. So while I appreciated that the enemies were a bit tougher and didn’t fall over from a stiff breeze, I still wish that the developers would work on the AI. At the very least, give the enemies some more tools as the game goes on. None of them have ranged attacks that can take advantage of the positioning heavy battle system. They’re also always limited to only 3 or 4 spells/abilities (which they rarely use). But still, there was at least some challenge in this game. I made much more use of gameplay features like MECUNITE and Chain Drive than I ever did in CII. Also, the changes made from original Conception to things like the number of bonding events per day is nice. Sure, it doesn’t save a ton of time, but any little bit helps. Honestly, I’m not sure why they bother limiting the bonding opportunities per day in the first place. It’s not like there’s any time limit on story events. + The endings: The endings may not have all been winners, but they were still a hell of a lot better than CII. At the very least we got some dialogue between Itsuki and the Maidens, as opposed to the 2 or 3 sentence summary and a single line of dialogue that a lot of the CII heroines got. + Character designs: I like the designs of most of the characters in the game, especially the heroines. One of the problems with main character design in CII was the fact that they were all wearing school uniforms. The only differences in their designs came from the little strips of colour that differentiated class status. The heroines and Wake all got battle costumes which allowed them to have a touch of personality to their looks, but for the most part everyone looked very samey. I said before that I loved the design of the AngelMarker uniforms, but the problem is that that was a uniform, not an individual look that made a particular character stand out. Conception did a much better job in that respect. Every character has their own unique look. Their costumes are entirely their own. Even Mahiru, who is wearing a school uniform. Mahiru’s only issue is that while her look is unique among the heroines, it’s kind of boring. Still, I appreciate that everyone had their own thing going on that wasn’t simply “change the hair colour and maybe put on a hair accessory”. That said, they weren’t all winners. I think Lillith/Lillie’s design is pretty bad. Their costume is stupid (they’re wearing a literal belt around their chest. Like they just got through auditioning for a Nomura game) and the weird arrow whatever that wraps around their head doesn’t make any sense or tie into the rest of their design. I think it’s just meant to be a reference to their personality switching, which isn’t a bad idea; I just don’t think that it was the best way to do a reference like that. Tarua’s design also didn’t click with me. I know her outfit is supposed to be sporty because she runs a lot, but it just looks really dull. Maybe it’s the colour combination. ~Neutral~ = The music: It was nothing special. Some of the character themes are nice, as I discussed in the update where I went over them. That’s about it though. Nothing stands out or sticks in my mind. Despite all the time spent playing the game I can’t even recall the main battle theme, and I played the game just yesterday. All of it just became background noise that was eventually tuned out. There was not a single track in this game that came close to the main battle theme of Conception II. That was catchy as hell and I still listen to it to this day. The CII music for creating Star Children was also something that stuck in your head. Conception Plus never had anything like that. = The story: Once again, nothing special. It had some potential and there was more than enough gameplay to make it happen if the developers wanted, but they didn’t. The story is just that Itsuki got pulled in from another world to beat impurities and save Granvania. The only twists or turns that we discovered over the course of the game were Mana’s origins and Shang’s backstory, which are both thrown out and quickly forgotten. Seriously, Shang’s backstory could have easily filled the story portion of one of the 12 Labyrinths. Where did he come from? What did he experience on Earth that made him want to stay in Granvania (WWI, Spanish Flu, genocide, personal issues in his life)? He was a God’s Gift himself, so what happened to the Star Maiden that he worked with? There was a lot of material that they could have used, but didn’t. Instead, what we got was a bog standard “save the world” story that couldn’t even carry all 12 Labyrinths. CII’s was also generic, I’m not about to argue otherwise. But at least CII’s story had some reveals and motivations and an actual antagonist. Conception doesn’t have a villain; it just has an evil MacGuffin that marks the end of the game. Shang is the closest we get to an antagonist, and he’s more of a well-intentioned extremist. He is a good guy in the sense that he wants to save the world and the people in it. The only real issue we have with him is being an rear end in a top hat about it to Itsuki when his methods are uncovered. Same goes for Narcisstes. ~Negatives~ —Alfie: The reasons why are obvious if you read the last Extra Update and my ranking of her. Alfie is a fun and interesting character, but she is horribly implemented. She is so lazily included in this game that I would have preferred that the developers didn’t bother. Whatever associated budget went into her could have been better spent elsewhere. Alfie doesn’t show up in the opening animation, she doesn’t have as many Bonding Events (story or generic) as the other Star Maidens, she doesn’t get to take part in any of the seasonal events like Flower Viewing or the Autumn Festival, and she isn’t integrated with the story in any way despite being the Star Maiden of the Labyrinth that acts as the source of all the Impurity problems. She was created specifically for this purpose and yet she’s never used for it. She exists outside the plot. Alfie was completely wasted and I’m very disappointed to see that she’s apparently nothing more than a marketing bullet point that SC could add to the back of the box in order to make it seem like they made big changes. What makes this even worse is the fact that it is not difficult to make new events for this game. All of the pieces are already there. If the PC version wasn’t locked into an .exe then I have no doubt fans would be able to create entire scenes that look just like the game and mod them in. All of the animations for the Star Maidens (both the 3D and 2D models) are pre-made. You can even go to the database and go through them:  The generic voice clips are even in there. With the CG backgrounds, you would have everything you needed to create entire events. So, if all the tools were there to piece together event scenes, then why did Alfie get so few of them? —Performance issues and script errors: I’ve been documenting the frankly stupid number of spelling, grammar, and translation errors (with help from Polsy on the last one) that this game contains. I’m not even talking about common errors like mixing up “your” and “you’re” or “they’re” and “their”. I’m talking about poo poo that standard word processors would catch. Does it ruin the game? No. I’ll admit that it’s nitpicky. But this is a professional company that wants people to fork out $60 (close to $80 for me in Canada) for this product. Errors like that don’t reflect well on a company and it sure as gently caress doesn’t make me interested in buying new SC releases. If that’s the level of work put in to the game, then it’s going to be sitting on the shelf until an appropriate price point comes along. That’s just scripting stuff. Let’s not get into the performance issues with the PC version. The low resolution cutscenes that had to be patched out after release and replaced with High Quality versions. The fact that the launcher didn’t work for the first week, which meant not being able to configure graphics settings or resolution. The fact that the game will randomly lock up for about 30-40 seconds and come back to a wonky framerate. Then there's the persistent issue with sound not working when the game is started, requiring multiple relaunches until the game finally figures out how to screw its head on straight. It’s sloppy. And yes, I know that the SC North American office is a small team. Spike Chunsoft itself is a relatively small studio. I know that they are probably doing their best, so I don’t want to tear into them, but this just hasn’t been an experience I’d recommend. I can’t lie through my teeth and say that a great job was done when all of these little holes are clearly visible, not for something that costs this much. —Star Children: Let me be clear about this, I AM NOT REFERRING TO THE STAR CHILDREN THEMSELVES. I have said multiple times that the Star Children are my favourite part of this game (and CII) and I mean that. Why I’m listing this as a negative for CP is because of how little attention the Star Children get. CII wasn’t great about this either, but the Star Children did make more cute comments than they do in CP. They talk about loving their dad and moms, and how some of them are worried about ending up looking like their parents (namely Serina). But in CP it felt like they only ever commented on gameplay stuff. Finding equipment, getting hit by traps, telling you to be careful about enemies. I think I saw a single comment throughout my entire play time where a Star Child said something like “I love dad.” Even in Alfie’s route, where the Star Children actually get to be involved in some scenes, they always refer to Itsuki as “God’s Gift”. He’s never “dad” or “daddy”. The Star Maidens don’t even get mentioned, but I would imagine they would just be called “Star Maidens” and not “mom” or “mommy”. Part of me was hoping that CP would have been a little better about this. That they would have learned something from CII and gave the Star Children a bit more attention. But they didn’t. They didn’t even bother to include the new Star Child classes that CII introduced. That was something they could have slapped on the box as an added feature, and yet they didn’t (CII had Witches, Mercenaries, Gun Saints, Bulletteers, Snipers, Dark Knights, Gamblers, Divas, Minstrels, and Tricksters). Artwork and skills and all that stuff was already done. All they had to do was make the 3D models look nicer. So that’s why I have it listed as a negative. Because the game didn’t do more with them. I can’t imagine that Japanese fans dislike the Star Children. They’re cutesy and fun after all. So I don’t know why SC seems against the idea of giving them more attention. Let’s be honest, it’s not as though this game didn’t have room for extra scenes like that (we went through 8 dungeons without any accompanying story scenes). — Extras: This is a weird one. CP had some extras that CII didn’t, but also didn’t have extras that CII did. One of the things I complained about in CII was the fact that the heroines and Wake had a bunch of possibilities for extra costumes that never got used (Narika has a costume modeled in 3D, but you can’t see it outside of the event it shows up in. Others, like Ellie, have costumes in CGs that don’t exist in 3D). CP did give us extra costumes in the form of the Yukata (they also had swimsuits, but CII did that as well), but they only did that for a handful of characters. You also couldn’t have the Star Maidens wearing the Yukata in regular events. However, there was an option to put them in their swimsuits for all scenes. That option was also DLC for some reason I can’t even begin to rationalize (the swimsuits are in the game. They are used for events that occur in the game. The “DLC” literally just adds a menu option to tell the game to use that model for all event).  CP had a bunch of funny items and weapons that reference stuff (like the Polyoshka, the enterbrain weapons, the Sho badge), which I don’t think CII did (except for the Monokuma badge). On the other hand, CII had Monokuma from the Danganronpa franchise as a bonus boss. CP had no bonus bosses at all. — Supporting cast: CP has no supporting cast. Sure, there’s Mana and Narcisstes, but those two are basically good for nothing but moving plot elements forward. CII had quite a few supporting characters, both in the main story and also in the heroine routes. Narika had Sasami, Chloe had Watts, Ellie had that little shitbag whose name I can’t remember at the moment, Fuuko had the ghost girl, Torri had Kirks, and Feene had both her childhood friend and also that thirsty Starball captain girl that definitely wanted to bang the ever-loving poo poo out of her (plus the cat, if you want to count the cat). Those were characters that reappeared throughout the heroine’s route and interacted with them/Wake. Not to mention the major side characters like Chlotz, Mark, President Marker, Enzea, Ruby, Alec, and Luce. CP doesn’t have that. Seiya only makes a single minor appearance for one of Lillith’s route. The little barefoot girl only shows up once and then is only mentioned in passing. The Old Man in Mirei’s route shows up a few times, but he’s just a generic NPC without any personal connection to the heroine or protagonist.  By the way, here are those 3 weird ??? entries in the Others section that I was trying to figure out. Human Mana makes sense, but why the gently caress were Matyroshka Alfie and Bond Eater locked until the end of the game? CP has Shang, Narc, and Mana. Shang’s only contributions are in terms of plot matters. Itsuki never just hangs out with him or talks to him about his daily life/his past (which you think he would considering Shang is another person from Sora). Mana is supposed to be the “best friend” character of Itsuki, but she’s irritating, and her character never develops. She’s the exposition fairy and the source for perverted “humour”. Narc gets a few moments, but he also doesn’t do a lot of hanging out with Itsuki. He's just there to answer questions and reveal plot developments. I mentioned this in the anime, but having Seiya act as a foil or possibly even an idiot friend would have been great. Sure, the thread probably would have hated him, but at least we would have had some kind of interaction between Itsuki and people that weren’t the main heroines. At least we could have had Itsuki socializing with someone else and revealing new aspects of his character and his views. The other issue with having no support cast is that few of the Maidens feel like they have lives outside of Itsuki. They all have jobs or work that keeps them busy, but none of them have a social circle. Ruka is the closest, as she has the children at the orphanage. But Reone? She supposedly is friends with Mirei, although we rarely ever see or hear of them interacting with each other. Femiruna? She has servants, but she’s specifically shown to have difficulty finding a friend. Yuzuha? Reone visits her with medicine, but that’s the extent of their relationship. Arie mentions in a generic event that Ruka helps out and goes shopping with her sometimes, but we never see the two of them together. It’s a far cry from CII, where Narika and Fuuko hung out regularly, Fuuko mentions hanging out with friends and getting lunch together in some of her events (friends that aren’t main characters), and Serina is shown out on the town with two of her own friends. Stuff like that makes you believe that the heroines have lives outside of the protagonist. It’s important, because if you have a character whose life revolves entirely around the player avatar, then that makes for an extremely boring person. — Pacing: The game has none. There are only 4 main story events in the game outside of the intro/ending. One story event happens per seasonal dungeon you complete for the first time. As we saw in this LP, Mana actively mentions that Itsuki/the player should try and switch up the labyrinths each time rather than clear a seasonal labyrinth entirely before moving on. The game even has a mechanic to encourage switching seasons (enemies getting stronger when the season outside matches the season of the dungeon). For any typical player, that steers them towards the idea of "clear a labyrinth in Spring, then clear one in Summer, then clear one in Autumn, then clear one in Winter, then repeat". The problem is that doing this burns out the entire story within 4 dungeons and you're left with 8 more dungeons to clear where absolutely nothing happens. I never tested what happens if you rush the Ophiuchus Labyrinth immediately, but I would imagine that the enemies and final boss would crush you. The weird thing is that there is also no true benefit to sealing every labyrinth. The story even tells you (once the Ophiuchus Labyrinth appears) that sealing all the remaining labyrinths is pointless. This game doesn't have a bad ending or a true ending, so there's no reason at all to not do the final dungeon as soon as you can. It makes everything feel like a waste of time. So if you go in blind to this game, you'll most likely wind up getting what you saw here in the LP. You'll see all the main story events after the first four to six dungeons that you complete, then you'll probably go and grind through the remaining dungeons because "Hey, there's got to be some benefit or reward for doing it all!" By the time you get back to story stuff, you've probably forgotten what the hell is even going on. This shouldn't have been a difficult thing to do. If all you have are 4 main story sections and there are 12 main dungeons, then just have a story segment trigger after "Cleared Dungeons = 1/4/7/10". Say what you will about Conception II's story, but at least we didn't have a gap of 8 dungeons before the story decided to stumble back out.  So yeah, you may notice that the positives are few and the negatives are many. I didn’t hate this game. If I wasn’t LP’ing it, I still would have played through it. I definitely wouldn’t have spent 40 something hours on it, but I would have gone through the story (I’ll be honest, I probably would have just rushed the boss after Labyrinth 4). I liked some of the characters enough to want to see their bonding routes all the way through. It’s also a game that I could easily play while watching a video off to the side (for the dungeon crawling portions). But it’s a very generic JRPG. It’s also a very generic visual novel. I wouldn’t tell anyone to pick this up at full price. If you asked me what price I would recommend it at, I’d say $20 at most (and only if you were super bored or otherwise a diehard JRPG/Dating-sim person). As for comparing it with CII, I’d take CII any day of the week over this. CII wasn’t amazing, but at the very least the story had some semblance of pacing and there was a decent supporting cast. Wake was also a more enjoyable protagonist than Itsuki. Wake had some passion (also bloodlust). Itsuki starts off with a few hints that he’s the hero type (as in thinking he’s an RPG/TV hero), but shortly afterward he’s lost to the background of the plot and little to nothing is said or shown to advance that. In terms of the heroines, regardless of whatever complaints I had about Ellie and Torri, at least things happened in their character routes. The things that happened kind of pissed me off (especially in Serina’s case), but at least I felt something, unlike with Tarua in CP. CII also had catchier music and the fact that the heroines accompanied the protagonist into battle made them feel like more active forces within the story. So, yeah. That’s about it. I didn’t hate my time with CP, but I sure as hell didn’t enjoy it as much as CII. I had a lot more fun doing the CII LP. Maybe SC could look into remastering that someday. Please… for the love god, Spike Chunsoft. Don’t actually remaster that someday. Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 18:20 on Apr 23, 2020 |
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Apr 12, 2020 22:33
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Psycho Knight posted:Alfie was completely wasted and I’m very disappointed to see that she’s apparently nothing more than a marketing bullet point that SC could add to the back of the box in order to make it seem like they made big changes. Yeah - Alfie and Mahiru dialogue aside I don't think they really did anything besides update the graphics - hell, even the official website says 'Deepen your bonds with the Star Maidens to birth a new generation of Star Children with updated graphics from the original Conception on PSP™!' In partial fairness the updated 3D models are pretty good, but as previously noted most of the 2D art looks like it was just touched up a little. Extra events and the like would have been a good addition but it isn't really that kind of remaster. Psycho Knight posted:
I guess it's technically route spoilers for Alfie and if you didn't have a 'unlock at this certain point on Alfie's route' option set up already you might just tie it into the 'unlock after completing the game' option that already exists. You know, if you weren't putting too much effort into adding Alfie.
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Apr 13, 2020 00:43
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What, no mention of the horrendous/wonky pacing? :p
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Apr 13, 2020 05:52
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Raitzeno posted:What, no mention of the horrendous/wonky pacing? :p Figures I would miss something. Thanks. Polsy posted:Yeah - Alfie and Mahiru dialogue aside I don't think they really did anything besides update the graphics - hell, even the official website says 'Deepen your bonds with the Star Maidens to birth a new generation of Star Children with updated graphics from the original Conception on PSP™!' In partial fairness the updated 3D models are pretty good, but as previously noted most of the 2D art looks like it was just touched up a little. Extra events and the like would have been a good addition but it isn't really that kind of remaster. I guess, but this clearly isn’t just a graphics update. They started adding stuff and tweaking existing characters. If you're going to do that, then don't half-rear end it. That’s a fair point I suppose. I did mention that it was technically possible to completely miss Alfie. It’s just weird that those didn't unlock after we went through the associated event.
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Apr 13, 2020 14:55
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Special Update V: Let’s finish this. Please – Conception: The Anime (Episodes 10-12) The game part of the LP is over, I’ve rambled about my stupid thoughts on the game and the characters, and we were presented with the terrible knowledge that there is an ending where Mana becomes a human girl and follows Itsuki to Earth while taking on Mahiru’s life (including magically making Mahiru’s parents believe that Mana is totally their daughter).  But, before I can finally We left off on Episode 9, where Itsuki gets led to believe that he has to do the Love Ritual with a dude only for Mana/The Star Maidens/Narc/Seiya to reveal that it was all a big prank to get Itsuki to… realize something… possibly… It was unclear and stupid and also a waste of an entire episode that could have been used for anything else, namely character building. There’s only episodes 10, 11, and 12 left. My guess is that we’ll be focusing on Alfie for this episode, then we’ll spend the remaining two episodes drunkenly wandering towards the final confrontation with Chaos/13th Phantom.  Episode 10 starts with Itsuki wondering about who the 13th Maiden is. He considers Mana, but writes her off because she’s lewd and fat (Itsuki says that not even he would go for that. Don’t fat-shame, Itsuki). Mana is secretly listening in on this and gets pissed off. I personally enjoyed Itsuki poo poo-talking Mana. Him going all “No fat chicks” is the only thing that ruined the moment. Then we cut to him training with Alfie after the opening is finished (Mana says he only has the 12th Labyrinth left to seal). Gonna assume that we’re about to speedrun Alfie’s bonding route.  Love you guys.  Actually, this training thing goes differently than in the game. Itsuki pretends to get hit by Alfie and falls down, and the Star Children are then asked about what they’re supposed to do in a situation like that. There’s a cute scene where the Star Children (not confidently) suggest different things (like treating the wound or going after the Impurity). Paladin eventually shows everyone how it’s done by responding that everyone has to carry out their role (for example: rear guard heals Itsuki, second line defends the rear, front line counterattacks). Alfie gets a look of pride as the Star Children all start coming together about tactics. God, I didn’t even think about it, but I hope this entire episode is just “Alfie, Itsuki, and the Star Children”. At the Stardust Labyrinths, we find out that Sagittarius is the last Impurity God that Itsuki needs to defeat. Shouldn’t be too hard for them.  Although things go pear-shaped for a bit when Archer trips and Itsuki has to take a hit to protect her.  Seriously, I would have loved for this to have been half the series. Just Itsuki and the Star Children fighting together and strengthening their teamwork while having to constantly make adjustments to account for new additions to the team. The next chunk of the episode is all the stuff about the Ophiuchus Labyrinth appearing and Mirei/Alfie having a brief run-in where Mirei is worried about her (because she knows that Alfie is the 13th Maiden) and Alfie being happy to finally go and meet Itsuki as the Ophiuchus Maiden. The big difference between the game and the anime is that here in the anime, the 13th Maiden seems to be required in order to tackle the 13th Phantom. Mirei is worried, but she doesn’t seem to be as opposed to Alfie becoming the Ophiuchus Maiden as she was in the game. So hey, at least Alfie has some actual plot relevance in this version.  We also get a look at Alfie’s room as she digs out a “special magic book” that she obtained from Sola (titled: Maiden’s Charm – My Birthday). Also, yes, those are off-brand Amazon boxes off to the side. We’re in Japan, there’s no skirting around that. You may as well just have the Tokyo skline visible over a nearby mountain range. I guess that book is a book on love superstitions, because we then get scenes of Alfie trying to secretly do stuff to Itsuki that will supposedly make him realize the truth about her. For instance, she takes a strand of her hair and ties it into a bow, then attaches it to Itsuki’s back without him knowing and says that if he doesn’t notice it in three days, then I guess he’ll realize he loves Alfie or something. I’m not sure what she’s getting at because her thought gets cut off as Mana immediately notices the strand of hair and cleans it off. Then she tries another trick from the book where she writes “Itsuki loves Alfie” on an eraser and states that it will come true if she can use the entire eraser without anyone else touching it.  Which fails because Tarua shows up with a delivery. Alfie signs for it in pencil, Tarua tells her she has to use a pen; then, while Alfie is looking for the pen, Tarua uses the eraser to erase the signature for Alfie. I’ll be honest. We’re just about halfway into this episode and I legitimately love it. I love the Star Children scenes that started us off and I love seeing Alfie be a dork that’s trying all these superstitious ideas to make Itsuki awaken to his love for her. Alfie loves romance dramas and pop idols, this is exactly the kind of innocent stuff she’d be doing to try and flirt with/get Itsuki’s attention.  The last thing she tries is to write “Itsuki loves Alfie” on a big sheet of paper, tear it in half, roll it up, and then swallow it… which causes her to barf it back up and admit that she’ll have to nut up and tell him in person. Meanwhile, Itsuki is just standing on a street corner with Mana (holding up an Ophiuchus sign) and trying to recruit someone to be the 13th Maiden, as though that’s how it works. To be fair, they also mention that the 13th Maiden will have a particular symbol on them, so it’s not as though they are willing to just accept anyone who walks up.  Could this be the one episode of this series that I actually enjoy? …There’s still 10 minutes left for everything to go horribly, so let’s not get ahead of ourselves. During this scene, Alfie tries to call out to Itsuki but him and Mana don’t notice her (she’s trapped in a crowd of girls that is swarming Seiya). Normally I would think this is stupid because Itsuki is being a blind idiot openly stating things like “Gosh, if only there was a woman who has been supporting me this entire time and helping me from the shadows that might possibly be the mysterious 13th Star Maiden”, but in this case (and maybe I’m being too generous to the writers here) I actually like it because this is playing out exactly like one of those romance dramas that Alfie is into. You know, where the guy is an oblivious moron and random circumstances keep getting in the way of the big lovey moment.  We do find out that Mana discovers Alfie is the 13th Maiden though. Other people heard Alfie shouting about it from the crowd and told Itsuki/Mana, but presumably only Mana figures it out based on the people’s description (Mana shows up in Alfie’s room and gets pissed at her that she’s trying to use love charms instead of just going right up to Itsuki). Alfie doesn’t want to do that though, because encounters have to be “sudden or trendy”. Alfie also shows her a video tape that her father left her. Unlike the game, the anime gives this former God’s Gift a name: Otabito. Well, possibly. The tape is labeled "Otabito's diary", so that may just be the name of the show that's on the tape. She says that she is supposed to show Itsuki that tape if she is to become a Star Maiden. Mana then goes back to Itsuki with the tape and tells him about Alfie. There’s also more lovely fourth-wall breaking where Mana talks about how the 13th Maiden was obvious because Alfie shows up in the OP (don’t draw attention to the fact that you wasted an entire episode on a stupid non-mystery that the audience already knows the answer to, Conception: Anime). Anyway, let’s find out what’s on that tape.  No, that isn’t Alfie’s dad. The tape is actually a recording of a bunch of cheesy romance drama shots. You know, the kind of shots they’d have in a trailer (people shouting about their love interspersed with “sad” scenes like standing alone in the rain).  This leads into Mana telling Itsuki to make things trendy/lovey-dovey for Alfie. Which I guess involves Itsuki sporting some shades and cruising down Itsuki ditches that idea and just takes Alfie back to her room, though. He says he wants to get to know the real her instead of being part of some made-up “drama” like what Mana was putting them through. This is where we get Alfie’s whole backstory, although she’s careful not to mention that her mother and father were a Star Maiden and a God’s Gift/Visitor. Alfie asks about Itsuki’s parents and he tells her about how they passed away, which isn’t something that game Itsuki ever really touches on (except briefly with Ruka and I think Reone). There’s also a really nice scene where Alfie reveals a (very professionally done) book she made that documents all the things she was doing to get the Star Children prepared to fight with Itsuki (tactics, notes on each Star Child’s strengths/weaknesses, notes on Itsuki’s equipment) and Itsuki gets a little teary-eyed because of how much work Alfie was putting in to keep him safe (he says that he has worried about if he would ever return home alive). Mana also gets pissed off (outside Alfie’s window) because she believes she’s been looking after Itsuki 24/7 and yet he’s not throwing himself on her. I like when we get to laugh at Mana. I hate Mana.  Itsuki also gives her a dress that he prepared because he thinks that the pure idol image suits her better than a trendy idol from the past (respectfully disagreeing with what her father seemed to imply by leaving that videotape behind). Mana keeps crying and bemoaning the fact that she wasn’t the “Cinderella” in this story as well despite everything she’s done. I still don’t feel bad for Mana. gently caress Mana. Unfortunately, this sweet scene is ruined by the show doing a diarrhea joke. Just as Alfie and Itsuki are about to kiss, Alfie complains about her stomach and then seems to pass out. Mana mentions afterward that it was just loose bowels because she had swallowed some paper at some point (I guess she didn’t spit it back out earlier).  You were so very close, Conception: The Anime. Still, this is by far the best episode of this loving show that I’ve seen so far. Anime Alfie does diverge from her game counterpart a bit (namely, there’s no mention of her only recently awakening to what “love” is, or any of that contempt for love due to the Bond Eater subplot), but I can’t really complain too much about this particular case because Alfie wasn’t in the original PSP version. The game was still in development during the production of the anime, so it’s not as though the anime studio would have any frame of reference for her outside of “is the 13th Star Maiden” and “is a Star Child”. Besides, I don’t dislike this characterization of Alfie. She still has the love of romance drama and the slightly dorky behaviour. Plus, these scenes of Alfie are very sweet and not perverted in the name of (what this show considers) “humour”. That’s about the best I could hope for. Can you imagine if the other episodes were closer to this? The anime still would have been generic, but at least we could say that it was heartwarming. Now let’s see if this show can ruin that feeling, shall we? It hasn’t had any trouble with it yet and the post credits stinger for Episode 10 seems to be suggesting a Mana-centric episode, so… poo poo.  Episode 15 opens with Itsuki loving Alfie… or however the Love Ritual works in this adaption. Mana is assuring the audience that this isn’t a porn video that will steal personal information or infect our computers with viruses… I started a virus scan shortly after she said that. So forget about all that sweet stuff from last episode, the show is going to pervert the hell out of Alfie now. Itsuki is shown… well I can’t really call it sex, because he appears to just be laying face down in her chest like he died. He pulls her dress off, but both of them are still just laying there and not moving at first.  Either way, the 13th Star Child does get born. She’s… different (that’s definitely not a warrior outfit she’s wearing). Itsuki notes that she doesn’t look like the other Star Children and Alfie looks a little down, then she passes out. The Star Children are worried, but Itsuki just tells them that she’s tired (she is most certainly not tired. Something is wrong). There’s a quick scene of Narc telling Shang that the 13th Child has been born and Shang being ominous by talking about “revealing the truth”. I hope to god that the anime isn’t about to put their own spin on the ending of the game by having that 13th Star Child be the sacrifice. Don’t pull that poo poo, anime! You stay away from the Star Children!    Oh sweet Jesus…Yes, as if the parallels to Japan couldn’t be any clearer, Itsuki wanders around during Starmas and finds an “Idol Goods” gift stand where he meets a wota. Granvania is totally into Japanese Idols from Sola, despite the fact that their only exposure to it would come from God’s Gifts that arrive only once every 10 years. So either Alfie’s dad used Mirei’s mind camera thing to create enough idol material from memory that it was able to form an entire fandom, or every single God’s Gift that gets plucked from Earth is a Japanese Idol superfan. Ugh… A world of magic and fantasy, everyone! Look at all the magic and fantasy going on in this alternate world that is totally different from Japan! Whatever… Itsuki grabs something for Alfie as a get-well present but Narc stops him for the big ominous reveal.  Thankfully my fears about that 13th Star Child are unfounded, as the anime sticks to the “Itsuki is the sacrifice” deal. Mana learns of this in advance in this adaption though (she overhears Shang/Itsuki/Narc outside the throne room). The next chunk of this episode proceeds similarly to the game with Itsuki being bummed out (there’s no Mahiru Mysteries though). Mana also pretends like she didn’t overhear it (she’s bummed out too, and at a loss as to what she should say to Itsuki). Itsuki goes and gets gifts for each of the Star Maidens or does something nice for them, such as playing Santa for Ruka and the orphans (which anime Ruka is overjoyed about, as opposed to game Ruka) or getting Reone a candied apple, or—    …I… I don’t have words… I just… don’t. I can’t believe they actually did this as a scene.  Moving on from… that. We get an extended scene between Mahiru and Itsuki, then switch back to Alfie. Sadly, anime Alfie’s backstory is more tragic than game Alfie. Alfie’s Star Maiden mother was apparently killed in this adaption. Also, Alfie is said to be a Star Child and that her immortality and Star Child strength were lost when she became a Star Maiden, but I think they imply that Alfie may have been the child of a God’s Gift and a Star Maiden (as in biologically, not magically). She hasn’t said anything about any experimentation or secret “Artificial Star Maiden” project and there’s not a lot of time left to this episode. There’s also no mention of her having a 10 year lifespan now, although that could be dropped at any moment I guess.  I don’t even know how to describe what happens next. Alfie’s tragic backstory leads straight into this weird gag where the walls of her room are pulled away and she does this “one-man routine” where she’s the host of a JPOP ranking show, and then she’s an idol singing a love song, and then she’s dressed in all these other costumes telling Itsuki that he’s just gotta do it. Even Itsuki has no loving idea what’s happening. The scene just cuts after that scene I screenshotted above. If I didn’t screenshot that, I would swear that I simply suffered a stroke and imagined that whole thing. Anyway, Itsuki somehow gets the determination to save the world and the rest of the episode is him preparing and Mana being a tool. Itsuki also seemingly fucks Mana.  Remember this horrifying screenshot? It wasn’t an imagine spot by Mana. It happens. And on that disgusting note, we reach the end of Episode 11.  Let’s flush this turd. I’m gonna blow through this because the end of my suffering is in sight and I am eager to be done with this series. As nice as Episode 10 was, it doesn’t make up for the rest of the series, namely episodes 5 and 6.  Shang and Narc are notably slightly less assholish in this portrayal. They actually tell the Star Maidens about the Great Star Ward plan upfront. Itsuki and Alfie have already left for the Ophiuchus Labyrinth, but at least the Star Maidens aren’t learning about the plan from Star Jesus at the last possible second before Itsuki is sacrificed.  Unlike the game, Anime Star Children most certainly do understand the concept of love. They easily recognize what’s going on between Mana/Itsuki/Alfie. Granted, despite the Maidens being told about it in advance, we then immediately cut back to Itsuki telling Alfie “gently caress that noise, I’m not sacrificing myself. I’m just gonna kill that thing.” I appreciated that, because it’s what I wished official Itsuki would have done. He basically tells Mana on the way through the Ophiuchus Labyrinth “Yeah, sacrificing myself would be the safe option and save Granvania, but I kind of like living, so I’m just gonna do that instead.” Of course, that praise is counterbalanced by the fact that Mana in the anime has apparently become the unofficial “14th Maiden”. She’s glued to Itsuki’s face during this little monologue of his and talking about them having a happy life together.  Don’t worry, I may be eager to escape this series, but I’ll never forget you guys. The Star Children are great.Something else I don’t think was a solid plan: Itsuki going to fight the 13th Phantom by himself. Alfie says for the Star Children not to worry and there’s a flashback of Itsuki telling the Star Children to protect everyone and for Alfie to look after the kids. Alfie also does this thing where she quotes Itsuki saying something like “Please watch over them Alfie, the woman I love the most. Take care of the proof of our love.” And while Alfie is lost in her imagination, the Star Children are questioning whether or not Itsuki actually said that while also talking about how [Insert Star Maiden here] is their mom, not Alfie (Fighter says that Mahiru is his mom, while Bondsman says that Femiruna is his, in case you’re wondering). Alfie tells the Star Children not to worry about the details, then talks about how this must be what housewives feel like while waiting for their husbands to get home. This causes the Star Children to misinterpret Alfie’s meaning as her being a cheater or seductress (they all have different moms after all). When Alfie asks where they heard a stupid idea like that, the Star Children tell her that Mana told them. Of course Mana would corrupt our pure and innocent Star Children. God, I hate Mana. Back at the castle, Mahiru is apprehensive about doing the Star Ward spell thing, but the other Maidens silently encourage her to go through with it. Unlike the game, the anime shows that all the Star Maidens contribute to the Great Star Ward spell, it’s not just a Mahiru only deal (although she does lead the group for it).  They also don’t even have to be present for it. They are doing the spell from the castle and Itsuki just gets speared with light over in the labyrinth (where he’s firing off attacks at the 13th Phantom who is just kind of standing there no-selling each one. Or should I say floating there, since the 13th Phantom is nothing but a blob of purple evil energy with glowing eyes. Not as impressive as the game version). Mahiru bails on the ritual, though. That part hasn’t changed. Kind of weird that the Star Maidens were so willing to go along with it, although I guess that’s more realistic than the game where they’re willing to risk the entire world on the chance that maybe Itsuki can do it without being sacrificed. Then, after Mahiru bails on the ritual and says that saving the world at the cost of Itsuki’s life isn’t worth it, and I poo poo you not about this next part, she asks if there’s any other way to save the world and Shang goes “Well, what do you say, Narcisstes?” Narcisstes then says that “Huh, well, I guess there is another way that doesn’t involve sacrificing somebody. Mirei?”  Yes, Mirei is just aware of the “true bonds” thing that Star Jesus told us about in the game. NOBODY MENTIONS THIS AT ANY POINT UNTIL THE LAST SECOND. Shang does the equivalent of a shoulder shrug and goes “Well, I mean, we already told Itsuki that he had to be sacrificed. Would be a shame to not just carry it out, but I guess we can try the alternative method that doesn’t involve condemning someone to eternal torment for the sake of a world that isn’t their own.”  So loving stupid. Ugh… well, I guess on the bright side this makes Shang look like less of an extremist jackass. Narc says that it’s too much of a gamble because of how little the document says about how to actually use the power of love, but Shang says that they have to at least try it. So everyone runs off to the Ophiuchus Labyrinth and does their prayer thing which powers up all the Star Children (the 13th Phantom has breached the labyrinth at this point, so the Star Children are preparing to fight it in order to protect the world, as Itsuki told them to do). The children also tell the Ophiuchus Star Child to protect Alfie, since she’s scared and doesn’t know what to do in order to help.  Then, it’s MECUNITE time!   Itsuki is buried in the rubble of Ophiuchus by the way. That’s why I haven’t mentioned him. Nobody believes he’s dead though.  Mana expended all her Star Energy in order to shield Itsuki, but of course they’re only going to joke about Mana dying or fading away. We already know that the game robs us of that miracle (in one ending), so it’s obvious they are going to use the Harem/Mana ending as an excuse to keep her alive.  Itsuki arrives on the surface just in time to save the Star Maidens from getting blasted. He declares that he wants to be with everyone, so I guess we all know what ending this series will show (then again, it should have been obvious from the start that they’d do the Harem Ending).  The MECUNITE’d Star Children protect the Star Maidens from attacks, but Itsuki isn’t able to completely defend himself, which causes Alfie to jump in and take the hit. This goes about the same way that Alfie’s bonding route goes, where she dies at the hands of the Bond Eater. She does the “thanks for teaching me about love” and “I’m glad I became a Star Maiden” sentimental stuff as well.  Alfie dies and worryingly there is no Matryoshka left behind. Itsuki (and Alfie’s Star Child) get pissed and the Ophiuchus Sign appears over the field.  Then everyone sort of repeats the scene from earlier where they pray and glow, except this time their Star Signs appear. So I guess Alfie’s death is what gives them the resolve to truly join together… or some crap like that.  Then some Sentai rear end poo poo happens where all the MECUNITE’d Star Children join together to form MECUNITE Megazord or something, which Itsuki gets pulled up into and starts piloting.  Shooting it with the Megazord beam finally brings out the boss we saw from the game. I was starting to think they weren’t showing him because he was too hard to draw or something. Chaos is actually a bit more argumentative in this appearance. It’s implied in the game, but the anime version of him clearly asks “Why are you rejecting me? I’m Impurity incarnate, but you humans are what created me in the first place.” Either way, Itsuki and Chaos trade laser beams and stuff. The crux of Chaos’ argument is that Itsuki must have felt comfort and joy when he was “defiling” the Star Maidens. I can see how the anime is trying to tie the idea of sex and impurity together by making it sound like it’s evil or and inherently selfish or something, but it’s flimsy reasoning. We all know how this villain rant ends: Love is pure and good and shut up.  13th Star Child becomes a golden trident of light and Itsuki proceeds to loving demolish Chaos by goring him to the depths of the Ophiuchus Labyrinth.  Where the Star Children seal it away forever, telling Itsuki that it’s their duty and thanking him for giving birth to them…  Shang is shown in the castle thanking Itsuki, along with the Star Maidens. Mahiru talks to Itsuki on the balcony that night because he’s clearly conflicted about whether or not to return home. Mahiru actually says that she intends to go back home, though. She says that it’s where she belongs and that she also wants to see her mom and dad. gently caress it, you all know what this leads to.  And so all the Star Maidens disappear from Granvania without a trace or single word of goodbye to their friends and family. The decision to go with Itsuki is made on the fly in this version, not planned out in advance. Ruka just says she can't bring herself to say goodbye and runs to the gate, then everyone else follows her lead. Yes, Alfie, Human Mana, and all the Star Children just inexplicably fall from the loving sky when everyone jumps into the Gate of Light. No explanation is given. Alfie and the Star Children just say they were revived somehow and Mana says that she was showered with everyone’s love and the woman inside her awakened. Thank god there’s only like 50 seconds left to the episode. This will probably just end with everyone declaring that they’ll be together and some ham-fisted title drop by—  …Okay, I guess the Star Children are going to school now. Also, Mahiru invited everyone to her house. Good luck explaining this to Mahiru’s parents. Their loving nephew and daughter returned after disappearing for who knows how long and the nephew comes back with 13 women and 13 children. poo poo, forget Mahiru’s parents, how are they going to explain this to the government? How are any of them going to make a living without residency cards? They literally popped into this world’s existence!   …Well, I guess they somehow do it. Either that, or Reone is a back-alley unlicensed doctor now.      That child has a sword stuck through her head. Is nobody in modern day Japan going to question that?  And I guess Alfie and Mana just become housewives, which I suppose is on point for Alfie. Anyway, it’s all over now. Thank god. The game itself was only mildly frustrating, but this anime really drained me. I don’t think—  No! gently caress you! We’re done! Harem endings are stupid! How in the name of Christ is this going to fly with anyone?! This loving teenager is marrying 14 women (technically 15 if you count Lillith/Lillie as two)! At least 3 of those are underage! But you want to know what really drives me up the loving wall? You want to know what the cherry on this poo poo sundae is for me?  How dare you drag Wake into this you loving shitbags! I like Wake! Don’t include him in this bullshit! Fuuko is… well, I don’t dislike Fuuko… she wasn’t my first choice… or second… or third… but at least she wasn’t Serina!We’re done here. LP over. All of you go home and do your best to forget this happened. PK out. Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 00:22 on May 5, 2020 |
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Apr 14, 2020 23:48
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quote:That's a bit overly-masturbatory, even given the subject matter. Like they couldn't do the box for like ZTD or something? quote:lmao
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Apr 15, 2020 00:12
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Psycho Knight posted:
They just had to, didn't they? Anyways, congrats on being truly done with this monstrosity, PK!
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Apr 15, 2020 00:39
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Seraphic Neoman posted:That's a bit overly-masturbatory, even given the subject matter. Like they couldn't do the box for like ZTD or something? Given how little actual fanservice this show had, that scene was probably the only instance of masturbation this anime produced. Seriously, who was the target audience for this show? -People who want to watch ecchi stuff instead of just going full hentai? They won’t be interested in this because the show only occasionally has light fanservice that is heavily censored. It talks a big game, but the furthest they ever go is the stair climb thing in the bachelor episode and half of the Love Rituals involving a bit of skin and suggestive groaning/positions (Mahiru, Sue, Mirei, Reone, Farun). -People considering the game? The anime barely matches what the game is. Characterizations are off and there’s barely any time spent in the labyrinths. Seiya also has no involvement in the game. -Fans of the PSP title looking forward to the remake? The horrible adaption of their favourite character will likely turn them off from the series and the game. It’s a bad series, a bad fanservice show, and a bad marketing tie-in. It fails in every possible way. The Flying Twybil posted:They just had to, didn't they? I guess they momentarily remembered that they were supposed to be marketing a game. Still, I've never seen something like this. A magic fantasy world in another dimension where a character got their hands on a PS4 and HDTV to play a game that is about the life they are living at that exact moment.
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Apr 15, 2020 01:36
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Lmao, you've got balls, anime, I'll give you that. Amusingly meta.
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Apr 15, 2020 02:58
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I'm at least actually happy that the harem ending includes all the star children also leaving Granvania and living their best lives. Genuinely, not as bad as it seemed from the start, except for its extreme low points. They even greatly improved on things like Seiya and even Alfie and the star children.
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Apr 15, 2020 03:44
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Well uh.... I guess there were some good things in this. Episode 10 wasn't bad. The star children continued to be good. Shang wasn`t as much of a dick in the anime, so he got to live. And at least Wake didn`t go for the harem ending in this world. Looks like you were right when you hoped that episode 6 would be the worst of them.
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Apr 15, 2020 05:14
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Ugh, that was total dogshit. gently caress that anime. It's an absolute shitshow that failed at every level. The only good thing about it (the Star Children) were an afterthought, and it actively sabotaged the few things the game did right.
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Apr 15, 2020 06:17
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I went back and rewatched the thing where I had first heard of the conception anime, the one that spoiled me on the kidnapping plot and had me bracing for it all game, and it had an incredible line: "Conception is a testament to what a group of people can really do when they all band together and collectively give up"
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Apr 15, 2020 07:03
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Psycho Knight posted:Seriously, who was the target audience for this show? Wouldn't be surprised if it was actually all of these but without focussing on any of them in particular. Mild ecchi and you kind of liked the game 8 years ago? Sure, here you go. Much like the lists in the character profiles, the things the anime goes with are aspects that were in the game but boiled down, and then re-expanded (in divergent ways), so if (if) those summaries are all you remember you probably wouldn't be too offended.
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Apr 15, 2020 12:51
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Maybe the anime studio was only handed those summaries and did the expanding themselves. Also, remember when Shang was the cool king who handed Itsuki a literal blank check to equip himself with? Too bad he had to be a dickbag in the end.
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Apr 15, 2020 13:25
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Ibblebibble posted:Lmao, you've got balls, anime, I'll give you that. Amusingly meta. I guess that’s the one thing you can say about that. It took balls to go for it. HerpicleOmnicron5 posted:I'm at least actually happy that the harem ending includes all the star children also leaving Granvania and living their best lives. Genuinely, not as bad as it seemed from the start, except for its extreme low points. They even greatly improved on things like Seiya and even Alfie and the star children. The show does do some things right, and I've pointed out what those things are. But those things are such small parts of the show. They are fleeting moments that never last. Most of the Star Children scenes only last a few seconds for example. Doing better than the game is also an extremely low bar to clear. Alfie and the Star Children are mostly forgotten about in the game, so giving them even minor story importance is a huge improvement. It's hard to praise them for putting in 10% more work than the game. BlazeEmblem posted:Well uh.... I liked episode 10, I really did. It had the Star Children, it had sweet scenes with Alfie being a dork, it had a lot of making GBS threads on Mana, and it avoided a lot of the usual weird stuff where they try and pretend that this show is going to really get raunchy. But that was 1 episode out of 12 that I can say that about. As for Wake, if you want to look at that appearance as being actual Wake then it's not clear what ending he went with. He and Fuuko are still rocking their school uniforms, so he seems to still be in the middle of his adventure. And I’m glad I was right about nothing being worse than 6. I'm bad for tempting fate like that. Raitzeno posted:Ugh, that was total dogshit. gently caress that anime. It's an absolute shitshow that failed at every level. The only good thing about it (the Star Children) were an afterthought, and it actively sabotaged the few things the game did right. Yeah, if I was a big fan of thos series I would be pretty pissed at this adaption of it. The few things it does right are overshadowed by everything it does wrong. I only wish we could have cut out the Star Children and planted them in the game. The stuff that the anime does with them is exactly the kind of stuff I've been wanting Spike Chunsoft to do in these games (and the stuff I tried to do with them in CII when I wrote my own scenes and dialogue for them). Make the Star Children into characters of their own. Give them stuff to do that makes the player get attached to them. Being able to name them isn’t enough, because due to level limits and new classes, you’re pretty much guaranteed to swap them out constantly. They aren't like Pokemon that you get and train and carry with you from beginning to end. Ashsaber posted:I went back and rewatched the thing where I had first heard of the conception anime, the one that spoiled me on the kidnapping plot and had me bracing for it all game, and it had an incredible line: That person knows what's up. I wish I could use that for the LP, because it captures the essence of this anime (and also of this game, in a way). Polsy posted:Wouldn't be surprised if it was actually all of these but without focussing on any of them in particular. Mild ecchi and you kind of liked the game 8 years ago? Sure, here you go. I guess, but even then you probably wouldn't watch this. It doesn’t hit any target. I'd really like to know if SC was happy with this. Like, do they have any intention of working with Gonzo again after this? I sure as hell wouldn't. Man, imagine other stuff they could have done with this game if they had trashed the anime idea and just used that budget for Plus. Commander Keene posted:Maybe the anime studio was only handed those summaries and did the expanding themselves. See, that seems like the obvious explanation. The problem is, some characters in the anime talk about very minor details that you'd only really get by having the full details of the game route. They know the name of Sue’s animals, they know about Yuzuha’s coffin thing, they know about Seiya being obsessed with Lillith, all stuff that probably wouldn't be included in summary materials. Shang was a dick, but at least he paid for it. That’s enough for me to forgive him. ----------------------------------------- Anyway, thanks to everyone that followed along with this. I have a little work to do to get this Archive ready (including collecting Polsy and AnAnonymousIdiot's contributions into their own posts to include as an "update"). After that, I don’t know. I liked the idea of doing VC3, but that’s already been done by someone else and I typically want to show off new stuff. I thought about Growlanser some more, but ripping my hair out doesn’t sound like fun at the moment. I guess I'll look over the request thread again. Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 14:13 on Apr 15, 2020 |
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Apr 15, 2020 14:08
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Could the audience be the budget? Something designed to tie up money that was supposed to go into the game?
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Apr 15, 2020 20:13
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~Astrology Corner with user AnAnonymousIdiot~ A discussion on Fire, Water, Air, and Water signs – Bonding Updates I through IV Fire Signs (Aries, Leo, Sagittarius) - All of them at least have some manner of passion or belief they're sticking to. The Leo is being a Leo, which is to say trying to be the center of attention. Arie and Sue though are surprisingly more muted despite their zodiacs. The former is usually a lot more impulsive and extroverted, along with having a faulty brain-to-mouth filter. Sag are supposed to be more adventurous and wonderstruck; they say a group of Sag's are a Basejump after all. I don't know if those impulses will creep up if we look any further into either Sign. I don't expect the Leo to experience much development besides finding some way to channel her passions into her ideal position and make them into something positive without being obnoxious. That's kinda the traditional hurdle for that particular sign. Earth Signs (Taurus, Virgo, Capricorn) - All three characters seemed grounded in a prior life or occupation, Tarua being a courier, Mahiru being a student and whatever relationship she has with Itsuki, and Farun being an entertainer. Tarua is being a Taurus to a T with how she's acting about her lot in life and stubbornness; Mahiru reminds me of the standards Virgos set for themselves, and how they simultaneous want things to go as they think them without saying a drat word about it; Farun is a contradiction to her Zodiac, conservative, business-type she is not, though she seems to have her poo poo together. Have to wonder if what we're gonna look at is having the preconceptions of all three challenged, reevaluated, or reinforced. Virgo and Cap are straightforward enough, but the Taurus is gonna be the hardest sell because they are famously resilient to change and require something apocalyptic for any kind of response. Not the actual apocalypse mind you, more an inexplicable inconvenience. After that, if you're not in the crosshairs, pray. If you are, run. Air Signs (Gemini, Libra, Aquarius) - Nothing but ideas, headiness, and a not-insignificant detachment from the rest of us, though in different ways. The "Twins" remind me of what people think/expect of Gemini; roguishness that borders on adventure game sociopathy, i.e. Try Everything, Take Everything; I am dead certain Mirei is supposed to be Aquarius since she exhibits being certain about her way of things and wanting to examine other perspectives, which are outta Libra's wheelhouse. Libras are usually social, diplomatic, and tend to hem and haw about things. The former two show themselves more in Collette than Mirei. They all have ideas but those live in a vacuum, while they and others do not and cannot. I have to wonder if all three are gonna be attempts to reach out to them and respond to other people around them. Libra might have it easy, but that depends on doing more than just keeping up on supply. Twins are gonna have self-righteousness to defend their flightiness, and Aquarius is gonna need some coaching for emotional intelligence. Water Signs (Cancer, Scorpio, Pisces) - Emotions. All three have 'em, and require setting boundaries for themselves. Cancers are usually caring maternal creatures that tend to get upset if their emotions are spurned or criticized in some say. Scorpios' emotions are like staring into an abyss with how simple yet intense they are despite appearances. There's also want for experiencing the emotions of others so they can feast upon them. Pisces are caring, intuitive, and unpredictably moody. May have a tendency to get lost in multiple daydreams and may be upset if you distract them from said daydreams. Interacting with a water sign carries the challenge of being aware of the other person's emotions and why, and reflecting that back like a mirror so you don't wind up stepping on an emotional mine and get blown to kingdom come. And you're not gonna know when the explosion comes, only that it will, and that it may be something you won't expect. I could say more about the Cardinal, Fixed and Mutable groups and common threads, but... I'm still working on that, and there may not be that much nuance in their commonality. Basically the Fixed Group has an overly simple perspective; the Mutable Group has a hard-to-grasp perspective; the Cardinal Group all have jobs that require large congregations. This has been a confusing exploration and I can't help but wonder if I should go back on pondering whether thoughts are a state of matter in this world, and how a mind-meld creates a Child. An individual examination of the Star Maidens and their signs – Bonding Updates V through VIII PK Note: AnAnonymousIdiot mixes up Mirei and Collette’s signs here. Mirei is the Libra Maiden, while Collette is the Aquarius Maiden. This may have been intentional on AnAnonymousIdiot’s part, because they maintain that Mirei and Collette are not following the typical traits of their signs. Arie/Aries: Before the last two updates, I wasn't quite sure where the trademark Aries Impulse is. With Aries you expect them to be running off of something they thought up and now want to do. We get snippets of what that Impulse might be when she talks without thinking - that brain-to-mouth filter problem is kicking in it seems - but now I'm wondering where the writers are taking this tangent. The traditional problems Aries face is letting their passions and impulses run them without any forethought or reflection, and being frustrated at Things Not Working, or their Impulses being denied or questioned. But if I'm reading the plot right, is the arc about Arie accepting her own Impulsiveness? Tarua/Taurus: The Taurus is still being a Taurus. That is all. The Twins/Gemini: Some people pointed out on the thread Gemini's two-faced reputation. Part of it comes from the fact that this zodiac isn't direct. They'll meander rather than get to the point. They aren't consistent. But this is how you get someone who relies on their wits at the moment and prefers the now, rather than the then or later. I'd say we'd get some of that in the Twins, but they don't want to be grounded, and they're having self-righteousness to defend their flightiness. I'm more worried that the writers want to have the Twins situation being treated as a benign thing that requires nothing but time to themselves. Ruka/Cancer: We're seeing more of Cancer's caring nature show itself in Ruka. However, we are also seeing the dark side of this zodiac's compassion. Something I forgot to bring up is that when there are large gatherings, it's as much a maelstrom for the Cancer as Ruka is to Itsuki. Too much of an emotional plurality to keep things together. Curiously, she seems to be trying to get over the Cancer's usual challenge: to speak up about things instead of stewing in what possible feelings they concoct. That avoids the meltdown that can happen, though she's doing it unintentionally which makes me wonder what her Moon Sign is. I have to wonder if part of her behaviour may be her trying to cultivate a safe space for herself in trying to care for others. Femiruna/Leo: The Leo is still being a Leo. I'd say that is all, but her sudden urge to have Itsuki be forceful with her raises eyebrows. It's outta left field - and I wonder if this is meant to be a zodiac 'joke' - but the way she's handling this is very much a Leo way. I should also point out that Leo suffers from living in a vacuum, forgetting that there are other people around her with different wants, feelings, and goals from her. On the one hand that we can see that she wants friends and why. On the other hand, it's also like watching a toddler learn how to walk. Then we have her relationship with her parents... It's not pretty and again, I can see why she wants friends now. Mahiru/Virgo: All earth signs have stories that they stick to, but act in different ways. Tauruses tries to press on regardless of whatever change may happen; Capricorns cultivate an image of confidence and respectability to people, and Virgos try to read the room and be the most useful to others. With Virgos, there's this deep-seated want to be dependable, though not authoritative like Capricorn. They also get upset when there is something they can't do themselves. I can see some of this want and stymying in Mahiru easily, as well as her own refusal to explain herself. Remember that Virgo's don't want people to see them crack. I wanna say she's chastising herself, just as she's chiding Itsuki. Collette/Libra: Flighty like the others though clearly having a goal in mind. Libra is being Libra and I suspect Collette might catch on to her issues in time. Personally I have to wonder if she forgot to put the Closed sign to Open in her shop. Reone/Scorpio: Before those new Bonding Scenes came up I had hoped that Reone could acknowledge that her own relationship with her brother and that with Itsuki were two separate things. I'm surprised and disappointed that she's compounding them, though I'm really hoping she's pretending in order to get a reaction from Itsuki. Scorpios tend to use emotion as a medium for reading and transmitting messages, as much as they use words. Primarily, they look for nuance. Almost anything is to try to get an emotional response out of people. Then we get the usual stereotypes of Scorpios: passionate nymphomaniacs who have nary a taboo they're willing to break. At this point, I wanna complain to the writers about using this stereotype. Yes, I get why the stereotype exists. Yes, they look to love and sex with a spine-chilling intensity. But again, they speak in and listen for emotional sentiments, and sex is just another language. Not because they're thirsty as hell. But anyway... Scorpio's usual roadblock is knowing when to tone themselves down simply because few people operate on the same wavelength as this sign. Sue/Sagittarius: Sue flummoxes me. If anything she's what Sag's don't want to find themselves in. I suppose her enthusiasm for animals and bluntness is something you'd expect from that Sign, but it's like she's constrained into something she likes but hates. Farun/Capricorn: I... may have misspoken about the Capricorn personality traits. I remarked that they were supposed to be conservative-looking business-types. But that itself is a stereotype of the Sign. Capricorns pay attention to keeping up the appearances they want to keep, sometimes burying their feelings or saving them for another time. This isn't to say they bottle things up; more they want to express them on their terms. Almost rehearsed so that nothing is misunderstood. The best example of a Capricorn confession would be Misery Business by Paramore. The one thing I'd say about the Sign compared to Farun is that they fret over serious matters, and we're seeing them here. Don't know if she's trying to be master of her own destiny while wrestling with her own feelings of family. Caps do have traditions they acknowledge, albeit grudgingly. Mirei/Aquarius: ... This was what I was talking about with Aquarius' detachment from others. They should have the capacity to care for others, but really need to work on that and not be afraid of putting themselves out there. That she seems willing to disregard others for her own wants - even if she has some sensible goal in mind - shows how badly she needs coaching on this. Otherwise, you get locked up in your head and people aren't going to understand the Aquarius' perspective. Yuzuha/Pisces: The Pisces is being a Pisces, nothing to see here. They tend to be detached like an Air Sign, but more because they're perceiving 'mysteries' around themselves, and others. They can be surprisingly introspective though they can also be locked in their own heads. They also have this tendency to reflect any emotion they're perceiving from others. It may not be right, but being made aware of what other people in a room are feeling can be pretty stressful. On the Ophiuchus sign - After Special Bonding Update I So... Ophiuchus... Psycho Knight hit the nail on the head regarding Ophiuchus; it is the cognitive dissonance and doctrinal dispute of the zodiac, where the systems we've used start to break down and have no way of reevaluating the zodiac's premise. Not only does the timeslot for the Serpent Bearer seem particularly small, but the other issue for Astrologers is also that the discovery of its' existence is new. Ophiuchus itself was discovered in the dawn of the 17th century; and while it may have existed in another name in the Babylonian Zodiac, any source on the sign is going to be esoteric, even for the zodiac. Keep that in mind for below. Sources on Ophiuchus used the flimsy shorthand, "a hybrid of Scorpio and Sagittarius." That too is a stereotype within the zodiac, like Tauruses are stubbornly slothful, or Aquariuses are like Spock. Despite the vague description, people made a legitimate effort to pin down what qualities the sign itself had. Things like a passion, idealism, and a romanticist leanings. Sources also describe the sign as arrogant, temperamental, and have a predilection towards mystery. The best way to think about the Ophiuchus mindset is as Romance Novel Logic. If they're basing a Star Maiden off the Serpent Bearer, I'd predict the writers might make her so romantically left-field, it hits you like a dodgeball. On the darker aspects of the star signs - After Update VIII Arie/Aries - I'm more and more convinced that Arie's arc is about accepting her own Impulses, and having them play out. I don't have much else to comment on, so let's talk about the problem with Aries and their Impulses. They are a temperamental sign. Aries gets explosive and direct when they snap, yet it doesn't last very long, not when some other Impulse or cool thing comes along. See Arie's reaction when Itsuki wants to see the secret room. When you have an Aries who lets their Impulses run them, they get bossy and assertive, especially when they get denied. Not like Femiruna, like where it comes from a place of self-importance, but more because it's an itch that the Aries wants to scratch. The result can get messy if the Sign doesn't rein themselves in. Sometimes it's just not the time to do the cool thing they just thought up. Tarua/Taurus - The two biggest things regarding Taurus at their worst are, their anger and their borderline hedonism. While Aries rage is like a shotgun going off, Taurus rage is like an earthquake. It's loud, destructive, physical, and terrifying. Also unlike Aries, there's no telling when the Taurus settles down once enraged. Thankfully, it takes a lot to make a Taurus see red, and most would prefer to plod on. The other problem they have is a want for things. Their love of a steady routine along with an appreciation for the things around them leads to a focus on having, hoarding, and indulging simply because it's the natural thing to do with the things they have. Whether these things are money, a cozy home, chocolate cake, cannabis, whatever they want, they want to have. And they struggle with the idea of what they have being taken away from them. Considering Tarua though, I think we're more likely to see the anger rather than materialism. The Twins/Gemini - Gemini at their worst? Look at them! Ruka/Cancer - I mentioned earlier that Ruka is approaching the darker part of Cancer's care and nurturing qualities. It's where those instincts start to smother and constrict the object of their affection. Sometimes the Cancer doesn't realize what they're doing. Other times they knowingly condition their charge to act in a certain way, whether it's self-serving or to correct behavior the Sign finds objectionable. Then we get to when their care gets demeaned or snubbed. Cancers care about how they care for others and being refused hurts them something fierce. That can curdle into resentment towards the people they care about, and themselves for caring for someone who didn't appreciate the Sign. Then again, we're looking more at what might happen instead of what is happening. Femiruna/Leo - I've already touched on Leo's narcissism, self-awareness issues, and want for people around their orbit, but I'll say it again. Leos at their worst think they're the center of the universe and don't think anyone else around them matters. This is how you get an entitled man-child who doesn't understand or care to understand how the world works. They're the star of their own show and you'd better clap. If I'm being honest, I've seen snippets of that aspect in the beginning, but that's been lessening as Femiruna's arc continues. Mahiru/Virgo - Virgo starts to fray when the Sign locks themself in their head. It's when they make assumptions about their situation and other people instead of asking for clarification. They get passive-aggressive in their help and say nothing about what's bugging them. There's also the real possibility in trying to react to what everyone's doing that they burn themselves out and stew in their own disappointment. In fact, that might describe Virgo at their worst: perpetually disappointed in everything. I see that a lot in Mahiru and in the many things she's trying, from the Seven Wonders to her other side projects. Libra - The trouble with Cardinal Air is an analysis paralysis due to not wanting to get something wrong. Libra is someone who wants to keep their center and be sure about what's happening in front of them. They deliberate, find other points of view to the point where it can make them passive, and events and people move on regardless of whether or not the Libra has an understanding. By that point they do, safe things, things that won't get one person angry with the Libra. Collette has a lot of hemming and hawwing, and if you squint, maybe you can see the 'safe decisions' with Mirei. Reone/Scorpio - I've said this before, and I'll say it again. Scorpios are intense in everything they say and do. And they read between the lines in what's being said and expressed. If the Sign comes to the conclusion you hate them or consider them a bad person, they'll act and react accordingly, whether or not you do think badly of the Sign. They can get judgy, they can get vindictive, and they don't care if you are uncomfortable around them. I worry when that happens to Reone, besides her usual behavior. Sue/Sagittarius - Normally Sagittarius tend to be out of left field in their passions and in how they interact with people. They don't think how they, their actions, or words will be understood by others. They can get insensitive despite their compassion and best interests. They don't think they need to mince words, which could lead to people reaching the wrong conclusions about Sag. Sue and my struggling to understand her may very well be just that in action. Farun/Capricorn - I've mentioned a while back that Capricorns focus on appearances, and I think I may have found the problem with Farun. She's trying to find the character that makes Itsuki trust and confide in her, and will not break that character for anything. This is a normal hurdle for the Sign. Capricorns like to be authoritative and respected and only talk about things that make them feel like the one who has their act together. I've said they don't intend to bottle up their feelings, but when they cannot express something on their terms, well they don't express it at all. At their worst, they get cagey, and not want to confide anything while hoping you may confide in Capricorn. Aquarius - Getting locked in your head can cause a spiral where everyone doesn't understand you, and you don't understand everyone. That is something the Aquarius can fall into if they're not careful. Sometimes you get people of this sign who play up their weird tendencies or exaggerate their behaviors just for kicks. They'll do anything to mingle with others if they cannot bring themselves to communicate. Collette is trying to explain things, but there are personal things she's keeping secrets; that's fine. Mirei may be learning, but considering things with Alfie, she still has a long way to go. Yuzuha/Pisces - I've mentioned it previously. Their biggest danger is if a Pisces gets too caught up in their own fantasies, they might stop paying attention to the real world. Or worse, they might prefer their dreams to reality, and be upset when they're taken out of their dreams. Alternately, they start treating people in the real world like their dream counterparts, which gets confusing at best, and uncomfortable at worst. Ophiuchus/Alfie - Compared to the other Signs, Ophiuchus is going to be an exception. A curveball in describing the Sign itself is that the Serpent Bearer has no element, nor category, nor a planet, not even an opposing Sign like the other Twelve. Some look at this and go with the idea people born under Ophiuchus would be unique compared to others. That said, there are consistent personality Traits. I've touched on the traits in an earlier post but I'll expand on that. By nature, the Serpent Bearer is curious and driven to find answers to the questions that come up in their lives. In fact you could say they want to know everything about the world around them from day one. Unlike Aquarius though, Ophiuchus is more intuitive and less impartial. The Sign's more likely to hold onto preconceptions even as they explore their world, keeping a sense of mystery to their preconceptions; the Sign believes in following a narrative. They also can dither and put off things due to trying to understand something before doing it. Anyway, that's kinda Alfie to a T right there. Can't really imagine an arc or hurdle for the Serpent Bearer, but considering how there are fewer events for Alfie, pondering the Sign's problems might be a moot point. A follow up to a previous post - After Bonding Update IX-XI So, I've decided to cheat a little. I made an earlier post where I've listed the 12 Signs when they go bad and gave a follow up on the Ophiuchus sign. Some of the entries are gonna be quoted from that post, the rest maybe a little more ad hoc. Arie/Aries - The big takeaway from the last couple of scenes is that Arie might be allowing herself to finally follow her Impulses. Buckle up. Tarua/Taurus - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "The two biggest things regarding Taurus at their worst are, their anger and their borderline hedonism. While Aries rage is like a shotgun going off, Taurus rage is like an earthquake. It's loud, destructive, physical, and terrifying. Also unlike Aries, there's no telling when the Taurus settles down once enraged. Thankfully, it takes a lot to make a Taurus see red, and most would prefer to plod on. The other problem they have is a want for things. Their love of a steady routine along with an appreciation for the things around them leads to a focus on having, hoarding, and indulging simply because it's the natural thing to do with the things they have. Whether these things are money, a cozy home, chocolate cake, cannabis, whatever they want, they want to have. And they struggle with the idea of what they have being taken away from them. Considering Tarua though, I think we're more likely to see the anger rather than materialism." Y'know... Tauruses also have a bad tendency to sound like broken records when they get locked into a routine... The Twins/Gemini - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "Gemini at their worst? Look at them!" I mean what I say about that remark, but at least there may be an attempt by the Twins to try grounding themselves. The moment where Gemini gives themselves to the present and disregards everything else is when you have the two-faced stereotype in action. Call it short-term memory loss, call it embarrassment, call it whatever you like, but they don't like thinking about the past when it doesn't suit their present self. Ruka/Cancer - At this point, she's letting religious propriety and ostracism get in the way of things she cares about. I'd say she has something in common with Arie in this, though Ruka doesn't have the Impulse as Arie does. Considering what Cancers traditionally want though, this might be the cause of her own problems. Femiruna/Leo - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "I've already touched on Leo's narcissism, self-awareness issues, and want for people around their orbit, but I'll say it again. Leos at their worst think they're the center of the universe and don't think anyone else around them matters. This is how you get an entitled man-child who doesn't understand or care to understand how the world works. They're the star of their own show and you'd better clap." If I'm being honest, I've seen snippets of that aspect in the beginning, but that's been lessening as Femiruna's arc continues. Ooh, enthusiasm! That's a Leo thing! This is what I'm referring to when Leo channels that into something positive. Mahiru/Virgo - Between the lore dump and side details, there's still the question of what she thinks Itsuki wants with her when the two of them meet. Mahiru still seems disappointed in the relationship she has or thinks she has with him. That she's trying to shoot questions back at Itsuki is a much a Virgo play as reading the room. The plot seems focused on resolving this, and Mahiru is on holding patterns from putting herself out there and being upset that Itsuki does the same thing. Libra - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "The trouble with Cardinal Air is an analysis paralysis due to not wanting to get something wrong. Libra is someone who wants to keep their center and be sure about what's happening in front of them. They deliberate, find other points of view to the point where it can make them passive, and events and people move on regardless of whether or not the Libra has an understanding. By that point they do safe things, things that won't get one person angry with the Libra. Collette has a lot of hemming and hawwing, and if you interpret those scenes, maybe you can see the 'safe decisions' with Mirei." I'm not convinced Mirei really is Libra, and the writers aren't really doing a good job selling that. If anything it seemed like they were trying to fix that with her dialogue with Alfie's scenes. Though assuming she's Libra she seems to dodge the trademark indecision and decision by committee, altogether with her own subplot and her appearances in Alfie's scenes. Reone/Scorpio - Oh right, I forgot Scorpio was a fixed sign. Once set on something, they stick to it; this not just applies to Scorpio, but Leo, Aquarius, and especially Taurus. With Fixed Water, you get someone whose emotions are locked down and under control. Scorpio does not let other people in on how they're feeling unless they want you to know. And here we get to the big conceit; they are emotionally intense and receptive to other people's feelings, and they assume that everyone else operates on that same scale. My guess is Reone found some sentiment in Itsuki that she didn't like in that scene. Not the worry, but wanting to include himself into a personal matter. I'd pin that on Reone reading Itsuki's and our discomfort in being compared to her brother and is responding accordingly. Sue/Sagittarius - Last post I mentioned that Sag's have the capacity to get random and tactless. That's... kinda what I expected. I'd think she'd have common grounds with Yuzuha in that both seem to meander about what they want, but while the latter has dreams, the former has impulses. Not like Arie's Impulses, but they're there and they aren't that big of a deal, more something to discover rather than always there in the back of their mind. Sag is a fire sign, but one that isn't that singularly driven by their passions the way Aries and Leo are. Adventure is the key word here. Farun/Capricorn - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "I've mentioned a while back that Capricorns focus on appearances, and I think I may have found the problem with Farun. She's trying to find the character that makes Itsuki trust and confide in her, and will not break that character for anything. This is a normal hurdle for the Sign. Capricorns like to be authoritative and respected and only talk about things that make them feel like the one who has their act together. I've said they don't intend to bottle up their feelings, but when they cannot express something on their terms, well they don't express it at all. At their worst, they get cagey, and not want to confide anything while hoping you may confide in Capricorn." The Cap is being a Cap. The moment that Itsuki buys into 'Big Sis' as an equal is when Farun normalizes. Calling it now. Aquarius - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "Getting locked in your head can cause a spiral where everyone doesn't understand you, and you don't understand everyone. That is something the Aquarius can fall into if they're not careful. Sometimes you get people of this sign who play up their weird tendencies or exaggerate their behaviors just for kicks. They'll do anything to mingle with others if they cannot bring themselves to communicate. Collette is trying to explain things, but there are personal things she's keeping secrets; that's fine. Mirei may be learning, but considering things with Alfie, she still has a long way to go." I remain unconvinced that Collette really is suited for Aquarius. And that last update with her demonstrates that she doesn't have problems with communicating her passions and ideas to others. Yuzuha/Pisces - AnAnonymousIdiot posted: "I've mentioned it previously. Their biggest danger is if a Pisces gets too caught up in their own fantasies, they might stop paying attention to the real world. Or worse, they might prefer their dreams to reality, and be upset when they're taken out of their dreams. Alternately, they start treating people in the real world like their dream counterparts, which gets confusing at best, and uncomfortable at worst." I say it again, Pisces love their whimsy and dreams. It's a crapshoot if it flits into empathy or being off beat. My guess is that the plot is gonna involve making one of Yuzuha's dream real and see how it fares Ophiuchus/Alfie - Gotta say this has been more of a lore dump rather than character development. Most of Alfie's curiosity towards love and other quirks check out. Serpent Bearers enjoy engaging the world on their terms, to the point where they carry a personal narrative in the backs of their head. They have a temper and get judgy whenever that worldview gets tested. Not so much because of being slighted, but trying to engage the thing and understand said thing. Star Signs in Love - Bonding Updates XVIII - XXII With each sign regarding love, here’s a one-word summary for what the twelve signs - minus Ophiuchus - have in common. Fire Signs is passion; Water Signs is emotion; Earth Sign is physical; Air signs is mental. Aries/Arie - They follow whatever Impulse that comes to mind with a singular determination; and they’re not afraid of letting others know that. With that in mind, it’s a no-brainer what an Aries in love would be like. For one, the gift the Ram is most likely to give to their partner is themselves; they’ll put their heart on a platter, and be eager to give and take. The biggest roadblock is stamina; not for the Aries, but for the partner who might get overwhelmed by the amount of focus the Zodiac is giving them. That has been Arie for her arc when she started acting on her Impulses, and especially when her mouth says things her brain hadn’t caught.. Taurus/Tarua - Something that should be noted about the Bull in love is that they prefer to be the one being chased rather than doing the chasing. For one, Taurus doesn’t like putting themselves out there for anything; they are very serious and don't know what to do when they’re pointed towards something they’re unfamiliar with. This is how the Zodiac can be really bad about responding to change; they run in the opposite direction if they think they can. Put all that together and the Bull in love is like staring into an abyss of uncertainty waiting to see if it stares right back. Another thing to be mindful about Taurus is that once they commit, they really commit; they’re long-term relationship havers and don’t do anything halfway; they will not say no to their partner, which can be a problem if it affects the Bull’s well-being. Loyalty is one of the big words for describing a relationship with a Taurus. Luxurious is another word as the Sign is drawn towards pleasurable things; and they want to share those things they enjoy with their partner. Think a day at the spa, or a lazy cuddle in bed. Tarua got the ‘bad at new things’ part down pat - see her run away from things, literally and figuratively - but it wasn’t as if we got the other facets of the Bull in love; Femiruna got the luxurious part in parts of her story, and Mahiru got the in-for-a-penny mindset in her relationship with Itsuki. Unfortunately, the writers really didn’t show anything else with her beyond the *ugh* ...running gag. Gemini/Twins - Gemini is the opposite of Taurus in that respect; they are not afraid of making their feelings public, but commitment is a challenge. Unlike Aries this Zodiac has trouble recognizing love in themselves or others; love is a four letter word. The better thing to focus on is the ideal partner, and to Gemini that is someone who would constantly engage them; stability and routine tire them out and then they go running off with your clothes over the horizon. One could even go far as to say that Gemini loves the chase more than the object of their affections. Then again, the Zodiac has trouble grounding themselves, like the other Air Signs; it’s as likely that Gemini cannot distinguish being in love and ‘playing the game,’ so to speak. With the Twins, the lack of grounding shows up again and again with how different the two personalities are, and the rules in place between them. The idea of both being settled in a relationship would demand a lot more spontaneity from Itsuki, if only to keep Lillie from getting bored. I dunno if they’re gonna start competing for time with him, or if both of them are gonna be tired of this thing and run off. Very little about the Twins’ arc seems resolved and things could easily shift when something new happens. In other words, it’s Gemini to a T. Cancer/Ruka - I’ve talked about how Cancer is like an aspiring mother in how doting and sensitive they can act around others. It actually makes falling in love difficult for them as they seek someone they can trust, someone familiar. Much like Taurus, they too commit long-term, but while the Bull has problems with making their feelings known, Cancer doesn’t want to pick someone that’ll falter or snap. They can have infatuations, but again, picking out a partner for life is serious business, and they don’t want to have their heart broken. And of course, they cling; being with their loved one is serious business. Ruka is so much a Cancer that it hurts, from her emotions, to her instincts, to her insecurities about letting them out. Leo/Femiruna - Much like Leo’s want to be the center of the universe, they also want their love life to play out like a movie. They see drama, action, and well, Romance with a capital R, and consider that part of the package with being in love. If there ain’t drama, the Leo won’t have it. Fortunately a Leo can attract someone by sheer force of personality, and see what they can do. And the Zodiac will reciprocate; Leo may be the audience, but that doesn’t mean it’s one-way. Of course, not everyone sees love the way the Zodiac does; sometimes being put on a pedestal with your ideal lover, and hundreds of admirers ogling at you isn’t the most rewarding thing you could be doing. Femiruna certainly has the want for drama and pageantry, though aspects seem curiously walled off, unless you count Itsuki offering to take her to earth. I think now that her ‘masochism’ may just be a Leo tactic, reverse roles as a way to show affection, but it’s a roundabout way of doing that. In summary, she’s an awkward fit for Leo despite the elements of her character fitting the stereotype. Virgo/Mahiru - Something that we’ve seen in Mahiru is a constant tut-tutting of Itsuki, which is itself a Virgo stereotype, especially in love. They have high standards, though like Taurus they’d like to commit to the right person for the long term. This creates someone who will flirt back, but will always be on the lookout to see if you may in fact be ‘the one.’It makes Mahiru’s interest in Itsuki as a ‘backup’ just plain weird, and might say something about either her own standards, or Itsuki as a person, of if she just saw potential. Virgos have a habit of being in love with someone on the grounds that they could change them into something better. Brief tangent aside, she’s almost a walking stereotype of the Virgin; the only exception is her being a ‘school idol.’ The standard Virgo doesn’t like attention and prefers to stay in the background, building someone else up while finding some way to benefit from them. Libra - Try to imagine Gemini knowing when they’re in love, and you’ve got a starting point for the Scales. They’re not afraid of pursuing someone or being pursued, but while Gemini might refuse someone because they’re bored, Libra’s on the lookout for ‘the one’ and may hold off from committing. And it isn’t an excuse; this Zodiac wants to find their one true love and is willing to wait till they find them. The moment they do is when they commit, which leads to an issue other signs may need to confront. Libras in a relationship can find themselves codependent, defining themselves by their relationship and not by who they are. After being neutral and deliberating for so long on their lonesome, it’s tempting for the Scales to lie back and have their partner do the thinking instead. Part of it comes from preconceptions of love and romance; part of it is also their tendency to get indecisive when they’re trying to be fair and balanced to others, and said partner. I… can’t find that in Mirei, and I can only find a smidgen of that in Collette. As unsettling as the latter is for her age and personality, she’s acting the part of a Libra, or at least a Gemini in love; always be talking. And that’s all I will disclose on that. Scorpio/Reone - Again taking the time to mention to stop stereotyping Scorpios as sex-obsessed. People who do that miss the point of why people refer to Scorpio as ‘the sex sign’ in the first place. If there’s anything you learn from my astro-rambling it’s that Scorpios use read and speak emotions like a language. It’s how you get people who can be from one extreme to another with no cognitive dissonance. Scorpio doesn’t see being devoted to family and infatuated with someone as mutually exclusive. Something I haven’t talked about is how their reading between the lines can make them a private person when it comes to love; much time is spent on how to make that happen, and with whom. They do want a long term partner, and they’re a tad surprised when someone throws themselves out there for this Zodiac. Of course the moment that other person cracks or doesn’t read the Scorpio’s messages gets readily dismissed. Reone is a stereotype. Facets of the usual emotional intensity and secrecy, are there from start to finish, but the writers fall back to the stereotype to distract us from Reone herself. Sagittarius/Sue - Like every other Fire Sign, they have passions but compared to Aries and Leo, these urges aren’t as all-consuming; sometimes they’re just trapped in ideas. Try to imagine wanting to do things with your partner, physical, emotional, or otherwise, along with trying to frame them as something cleansing, enlightening, or just whimsical. The other thing about Sag passion is that it’s not constant; Aries and Leo may burn like the brightest star or forever respectively, but Sag may die down, and the sign is left looking over the relationship they’re trying to cultivate. They can suffer a little from what can blind Virgo - looking at someone for their potential - though not as badly, nor with that sign’s high standards. Usually, those signs need to reexamine their passions so that they don’t try igniting them on ashes. Sue seems to have gone in reverse as a Sag in love, going from contemplative and shy at first to whimsical and playful at the last. Capricorn/Farun - When a Cap is in love, they’ll want you to notice how often they’re in your presence. Then show dedication to you; then say they love you. Like the other Earth Signs, Cap wants to commit, but they aren’t as choosy over who they pursue; it’s easy for them to fall in love if they know that person for a long time. When they’re in a relationship, they can act out of character for their partner; you get the Zodiac sign unfiltered without any omissions on their end. You also get someone who will move mountains to make this relationship work, on top of every other ambition they’re carrying out now. I’m surprised that they didn’t try making new Mahiru a Capricorn and treat the childhood marriage crush as looking beyond her ‘character.’ As it stands, Farun is obnoxiously a Cap, almost bringing up the character she’s supposed to play, and dropping later on, in her conversations. Aquarius - The sign is a wildcard when they’re in love; you have the interest in connecting on a cognitive level, but Aquarius is locked up in its head and needs to be coaxed out of it. As I’ve mentioned in previous posts, the sign has a strident idealism, but they don’t know how to express it. Connection matters to this sign; how long or short that connection lasts, or how that connection takes form is secondary. The writers don’t know what they’re trying to impart; Granvania is a terrible place to live; I say Mirei is more suited as an Aquarius than a Libra; all these statements are true statements. Much of her arc had been spent trying to pull her out of her head and getting her to express what’s on her mind. Even the nature of her falling in love was out of context - unless Classmating really does alter a person’s psyche. Collette meanwhile doesn't seem to have such preconceptions, barring her bread fixation. Pisces/Yuzuha - Compared to the other Water Signs, Pisces loves them some Drama and Capital R Romance (excuse the pun), but real life gets in the way with that. And considering Pisces is as locked up in their own heads as Aquarius is, there exists the real possibility of the Fish loving an idea of that partner, rather than the partner themselves. They can hop from one partner to another if they see something in someone else that’s enticing; sometimes they alternate depending on what sets the Fish’s mind ablaze. We get the one foot in a dream feeling from Yuzuha, and if you squint you can see the want for drama; if she likes Itsuki knowing how precarious her life is, then that’s textbook Pisces Romance. It just makes her uncomfortable to be around. Ophiuchus/Alfie - I’ve mentioned that this Zodiac buys into a personal narrative right? When that narrative involves someone the Serpent Bearer loves, where do they fit in? Where does Ophiuchus fit in? What would it mean for both of them? All these questions, and more buzz in Ophiuchus’ head on the subject of love and romance. They’re idealists and love to find meaning in their lives. If it turns out they love someone, they’ll gravitate towards that person and plumb their depths for that meaning whatever it may be. If this sounds vague or familiar with Alfie, remember that we really don’t have that much to work with for the sign, and you must take whatever I say, and what you may find, with a grain of salt.
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Apr 19, 2020 16:10
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~Japanese Version Comparisons with user Polsy~ Regarding the “Heart of Serving” line from Arie’s Level 1 Bonding Event   The heart of serving… That sounds like a difficult concept to grasp.Polsy: I would've been willing to put this down to 'separate people were translating each half of this conversation' (for some reason) and one of them decided 'the heart of serving' was bad, if it wasn't for the fact she then goes ahead and says it anyway later on. More literally her first line here is something like 'If it's for the sake of someone else, as long as you have a heart of serving* putting in the effort isn't a problem' so really their translation of that line would be fine, if they'd actually written the others parts to be consistent with it. * this should probably be something like 'the will to serve' regardless, but there's plenty of options to make this sound less weird that they didn't take Regarding Farun’s accent/dialect + The fate of animals at Sue’s ranch Psycho Knight posted: “I don’t know Japanese well enough to tell if Farun’s lines are written with a “Kansai Accent” in mind, or if they are just generally informal. The localization seems to treat it as such though, with the way that Farun’s lines have been translated.” She's just informal and I feel like the localisation is leaning on that a little too hard. Granted it's not as easy to be explicitly informal in English but even so. Speaking of the Sue scene Psycho Knight posted: “Whoa, whoa. Hold up. What about the cow that is clearly there in the background? Does she not have a name?” The Japanese guy whose video I was looking at noted the very audible pig also disappears here. Kind of weird considering there's a second named sheep later on anyway. Odd word choice for describing Sakura Petals – Flower Viewing Event Intro during Update IV PK Note: This refers to the part where Itsuki describes Sakura petals to Mana as being a “pale crimson” colour and I questioned why Itsuki doesn’t just say “pink” right away. Polsy: Unsurprisingly this is down to translation and could have been worked around better. Japanese Itsuki never says pink*, his backup plan is to say 'it's like a pale peach colour'. * there's actually no native Japanese word that exactly means 'pink' but even in 2012 using the English loanword was very common so I don't know why they didn't just go with that. Other than to line up another pervert Mana gag. The dialogue confuses the localisation team and Mana ends up addressing Itsuki for no reason – Happens during Update V PK Note: Mana randomly says “Oho, you seem happy that Mahiru was complimented about being the best in class. And by that cheesy teacher of hers too.” The problem is that Official Itsuki had just responded to Mahiru with “Can’t argue there.” So, Mana ends up addressing Itsuki with a nonsense comment that doesn’t follow the flow of the conversation. Polsy: I'm pretty sure Mana's line is meant to be directed at Mahiru. Japanese grammar effectively removes the 'you' and 'hers' from that sentence so it's technically ambiguous, but - as noted, it doesn't make sense - Mahiru is the one who replies to this - in Conception (this was taken out in Plus, I assume for Mahiru personality reasons) Itsuki has a longer response to the 'it's just to get back to our world' line, which Mahiru responds to, which means she's also the last one to speak before Mana says that. An example of the kind of cuts that were made to Mahiru in order to rework her personality for Plus PK Note: The weird cuts made to Mahiru’s events happen throughout the game, but the particular moments below are referring to her first few bonding events. Polsy: There was definitely more dialogue between 'I'm learning how to make sweets' and 'can I take your order' otherwise I would've noticed those were basically the same comment about her speech. M - I’m helping out with the register while learning how to make sweets. I - It looks like you're really enjoying life in Granvania M - I'm just trying to pass the time. There's no point brooding over it M - So, can I take your order, sir? I - Gonna be honest, it’s pretty nice to have you address me like that. Nice change of pace. M - Just shut up and give me your order ticket I - I didn't come here to eat, I came to see you M - More like you came to get in my way I - I didn't. Am I in the way? M - Look behind you and you'll understand (slightly edited in the Plus dialogue) I - Where the hell did they all come from? M - If you don't want anything then move aside. Otherwise you'll make me angry I – Sorry M - Next customer please. Thank you for waiting [continues as normal] There's probably more edits to the bonding events than I expected if I went through them line-by-line, the parts I'd looked at before now were basically identical but I guess it varies depending on what's story-critical and untouchable (the promise, presumably) and what they want to edit for personality reasons. Actually most dramatically (this was very confusing when I was trying to find this event in Japanese just now), in Mahiru 3 the entire block between 'Is your class done for today'? to 'the cake in the cafeteria is delicious' is replaced by: M - Yeah. What are you doing here? I - I came to see your face M - Wow! I'm so happy! I - Wait, really? M - No, I was joking. I - I figured M - Well, it sounds like you're at a loose end, so They then remove the entire dialogue chunk about rehashing the promise, then after that is some additional missable dialogue about how she wants to experience Granvania cooking and Itsuki doesn't know what a patissier is, before going back to agreeing to go for the cake to improve their bond. Different presents for Itsuki – Happens during Update VII PK Note: To start with, there’s a part where the Star Maidens are giving Itsuki their presents and Mahiru talks like she’s giving one of her own, but doesn’t. I figured it was a mistranslation and that Mahiru was trying to imply that she pitched in for one of the gifts. M: Itsuki, happy birthday. I hope you like my present too. I: It’s not going to kill me, is it? R: All right. I’m next. Here’s something from me. You don’t have to force yourself to like it. Oh… But please water it. Polsy: Yeah, Japanese Mahiru just says 'present' here, no ownership implied (and no 'too' either). She's probably meant to be talking about the bear still. Additionally, Conception Plus cut a line earlier in this scene, before Yuzuha says 'oh...thought so', where Mahiru yells at Itsuki for not being enthusiastic enough (yes, on top of the "you're supposed to look happier" earlier). PK Note: Polsy also found that the gifts that the Maidens give Itsuki look different in the original PSP version of the game.    Mahiru takes credit for something she didn't do - This happens during the story portion of Update IX PK Note: This happens during the scene in Update IX where Mahiru declares that she's brought some helpers for Farun at the tavern. Only problem is that Narcisstes is the one that convinced the Maidens to go and help out at the tavern. Itsuki/Mirei/Reone are already headed to the tavern to help Farun by the time that Mahiru appears in the scene. Polsy: Interestingly there is an edit just before here but it doesn't make this line better, it makes less sense if anything. After Tarua says she has to go (actually she says 'I'll definitely help out next time' but it's inconsequential either way) - Reone shows up and tells Tarua to make sure she looks where she's running, so she doesn't run headfirst into a wall like the last time - Tarua says 'yeah, I know' and runs offscreen, followed by the sound of shattering glass - Mirei then shows up to say 'She never learns' - Tarua reappears to say 'Ha ha, at least it wasn't a wall this time', then runs off again. - then Mana finally gets to say 'She’s full of energy, as always', then end scene Mahiru never appears here and Reone and Mirei are clearly still with Itsuki, so Mahiru definitely isn't responsible for anybody being there. Another example of a "Mahiru Cut" - Happens near the start of Update X PK Note: This happens immediately in Update X, after Mahiru wakes Itsuki up and drags him out for rumor hunting. When they get to the Granvania streets, they seem to already be halfway through their conversation. Polsy: Yes - in original Conception this scene starts with Mahiru saying 'There was something I realized after'. There's a cut just after 'Today, we solve the mystery of the headmaster's room' where Itsuki is extremely reluctant to join in with this and Mahiru subsequently drops a huge guilt trip on him about her having to go alone and missing this opportunity to increase their bond while (very) slowly walking out of the door. Eventually Itsuki gives in and she says to herself 'ha, he's so easy to manipulate'. Doesn't really work with "nice Mahiru". Example of dialogue changes between Conception PSP and Conception Plus - Happens during Bonding Update XVI PK Note: This happens in Mahiru's summary. It's an example of the kind of random rewriting that seems to have been done for Mahiru in Plus. Polsy: Honestly the parts where they just rewrite a whole block of dialogue are less weird than when they just change a line or two and it's like why even bother. Just for a quick example, in the first scene on the field, it's identical until Itsuki shows up, then--  I have no idea what that middle section was added for other than 'yes, Mahiru is popular in case the first half of the scene didn't clue you in. An explanation on why "Visitor" is used in the anime, instead of "God's Gift" PK Note: This is a reference to the first anime update. The game refers to Itsuki and Mahiru as "God's Gifts", the same as Wake in CII. However, the anime calls Itsuki and Mahiru "Visitors". Polsy: Visitor is a valid if rather abbreviated translation - really it has fancier implications. "God's Gift", like Classmating, was an invention of the translators for Conception 2 and carried over into Conception Plus. Amusingly the reverse also applies, in Japanese Conception 2 Wake is also referred to as 'Visitor' even though it doesn't really make sense. Between this, Sola, Liris, and anything else it's kind of curious that they didn't actually have anyone on the game translation team (assuming it had progressed that far) review it for terminology. Crunchyroll streams are officially licensed so they would certainly have been aware. Polsy talks about how Mahiru's final bonding event plays out slightly different PK Note: This is one of Mahiru's final bonding events. Specifically, it's the one where she goes to Itsuki's room and cooks for him, only for Mahiru to get drunk and pass out from the wine used in the food. The ending is quite a bit more suggestive compared to the Plus version. Polsy mentions that the dialogue is a lot more suggestive, with Mahiru waking up in the morning and talking about "looking at Itsuki's sleeping face", being really tired out "after all that", not having slept much, and "Not having any regrets" when Itsuki gets a little apprehensive about something they did. Mahiru also directly states that she has loved Itsuki "since long ago" in this version. It's a lot more direct than what we get in the English version of Plus. Slight clarification on Character Profiles PK Note: Finding videos of the Japanese versions of the game(s) for smaller details, like the character profiles, was more difficult. However, Polsy did manage to find some of them and made some notes on the terms used. Polsy wrote: For Arie: Defiance is more literally 'going against teachings' so yeah, probably the church thing. Preacher is more literally 'spreads teachings', so, right, it's probably meant to be non-aggressive. For Farun: Boorish would probably be better than 'senseless', she probably gets a lot of that in a bar though I'm not sure why it'd be the last unlock particularly. For Alfie: her dislike is indeed specifically 'romantic' love, but yes, regardless of how you take that it seems kind of weird when you just went through her final bond event. More usefully, 'straight' should actually be 'straightforward'. Itsuki randomly quoting 19th-century American poets PK Note: This happens in Update XIX, where Itsuki is meeting with the Star Maidens and trying to reassure them (also possibly saying secret goodbyes to them because he's about to die). During Arie's event, Itsuki (badly) quotes a 19th-century American poet and acts like it's just a common saying back on Sora. Polsy: I did not like my chances of finding a thing which requires a) someone to actually finish the game and b) happen to record the correct one of a limited-run event. But, I got lucky here. This is even more surprising because it's only three in the PSP game, matching the maximum 3 events per week. Anyway - he says their (he says "Star God's and Airi's" rather than just "Star God's") protection is like giving a metal rod to a demon - ie, making him even stronger - not so much poetry as a common idiom. Of course, this also makes the followup line make more sense. Psycho Knight fucked around with this message at 18:42 on May 12, 2020 |
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Apr 19, 2020 17:19
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