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Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






This was loving insane.

I have to watch it again ASAP because holy poo poo that was fun.

I think I can think of at least one plot hole, but I'm not 100% certain that I'm not just thinking of it wrong / having a hard time rationalizing it.



edit: brb, gonna read 14 pages of this poo poo

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Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Ruffian Price posted:

Yes, P has already met him after he spent years inverted (remember how twitchy he was in their first scene?), but he (in the future) has yet to meet P. Hence the beginning of a beautiful friendship for P and the end for Neil.

lol I thought that was because he was withdrawing from alcohol. Which makes sense if he watched a ton of videos of Hitch like someone previously stated.

quote:

The opera setpiece is there to fill out the square and that's it I thought the balcony throw was setting up a small time loop since it looked significant but it wasn't relevant later

Yea, when the Protagonist inverts himself the first time, I thought we were about to go backwards through the entire film, which would have been loving awesome. I'm more than satisfied with what we got instead though.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






General Dog posted:

The guys running into battle backwards absolutely felt like parody. I honestly couldn't tell who was coming and who was going the whole time, despite some effort to establish who was who with the colored armbands.

That was clearly the point. The only way you could tell is by if they were moving backwards or everyone else was (or the arm band if you could keep remembering). It was suppose to be confusing and hectic.

And because it was asked more than once already: the temporal pincer move was not referring to a pincer maneuver on a battlefield, but in time -- so you had one team attacking normal but then also from the goddamn future. Basically, each team only had to win half the battle, because their counterparts were leading an assault from either one hour in the past or one hour in the future, and they converge at the moment the nuke is supposed to detonate.

Ruffian Price posted:

That vehicle box-in scene looked like a massive money sink and they probably had to run the scenario multiple times. Knowing Nolan the CGI was minimal

e: lmao can't believe I already forgot about the plane

Well yes, that was quite expensive I'm sure. But so was detonating a nuclear warhead. You think Nolan just stops after car chases?

Abalieno posted:

A few weeks ago I "broke" Dark, this time I prove Tenet is sloppy and poorly built with a simple experiment.

Both Dark and Tenet are built on the same foundation, they are only different in appearance. Therefore...

Tenet defeated

Letís take two devices, one that is wholly normal, and proceeds linearly through time, that we name Billy. The other instead is reversed, and we name it Tom.

Billy, the linear time one, is equipped with a microphone, and programmed so that if it hears one beep, it activates a projector that shows the color red on a wall. If instead the microphone hears two beeps then the projector will show the color blue on the same wall.

Tom, the one that is reversed, is instead equipped with a camera and a sound emitter. The camera is pointed at the wall of the first device, and Tom is programmed so that if the camera sees the color red on the screen, then the sound emitter will produce two beeps, if instead the camera sees blue, the emitter will produce one beep.

Letís establish then two discrete points in time. Time 1 and Time 2. They are labeled in linear order. So in common linear time first we have Time 1, and then Time 2 follows. Tom, in reverse, experiences Time 2 before Time 1.

Summary:
Billy (normal), one beep = red, two beeps = blue.
Tom (reverse), red = two beeps, blue = one beep.

Since Tenet establishes that the past cannot be changed, and everything is inscribed already in the same timeline, then it means Tom, at Time 2 will have to perceive a color, because it has always already also proceeded to Time 1 and emitted a sound. But of course this opens the contradiction because if it sees red, then it emits the two beeps that will cause Billy to project the color blue, and so Tom cannot see red, it sees blue. But if it sees blue at Time 2, then at Time 1 it will emit only one beep.

Conclusion: this contradiction cannot be solved, because the fundamental principle Tenet is based on is flawed.

Caveat: thereís a small loophole that can be exploited, and that wants that Billy doesnít show anything, and Tom, not seeing anything on the wall, doesnít emit anything. This can be easily patched up with an added rule that if Tom reaches Time 1 without the camera seeing a color, then it is programmed to emit either one or two beeps randomly. This makes sure than in all cases Tom will see a color at Time 2, and so wonít have to use the random function at all.


The colors would be inverted.

suck it.

Grandpa Palpatine fucked around with this message at 22:30 on Oct 10, 2020

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Aeble posted:

I was really wishing for subtitles; understanding a time travel plot when chunks of the dialogue can't be understood is not helpful! What was the goal in going to the Freeport where they first encounter the turnstile with the plane crash plot, and why was it filled with gold in the first place? I could not hear or understand that. Something to do with that drawing, but ???

I thought the idea of sending messages to/from the future was really neat. The mechanics of the inverted bullets were kind of needlessly complex, though - just sticking to whole-sale inversion seems to make more sense. But how does an inverted person drive a non-inverted car? Or does the car also become inverted somehow by being piloted by an inverted person? Hmm.

Was a nice spectacle. Lots of nice suits. Agree with it being a Bond movie, basically. I'm not sure it needed to be as long as it was, I think the gimmick started to become a bit too predictable once they first went through the turnstile, because then the cliche time-travel tropes of the ~mysteriously masked people showing up in the right place~ applies, and it's not so mysterious anymore, but I was still entertained.

Aside from that, having the cinema being half-deserted due to corona is eerie as hell.

Also! I can recommend 5D Chess to play games in the dimensions of time and timelines. It's really not that confusing.

If you're in a parking space:
1) Put the car in Drive.
2) Step on the gas pedal and ease off of it (to accelerate in reverse)
3) Watch where you're going out the back window.

4) Apply pressure to the gas to brake.
5) Look forward to where you'll be driving.
6) Shift from Drive to Reverse.
7) Ease off the gas to accelerate.

Grandpa Palpatine fucked around with this message at 01:38 on Oct 17, 2020

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9OLCMn_2s

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Simone Magus posted:

There's kinda no way at all to explain the driving

yea you'd have to accept that the car was inversed as well

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Bioshuffle posted:

If previous releases are an indication, what's the earliest this movie will come to VOD? I'm assuming the theatrical run will be cut short due to its performance.

I am not willing to risk getting a deadly virus to watch this movie, but I will order and watch the poo poo out of this movie at home with subtitles.

Cut short? They're gonna keep this film in theaters for like a year. It's going to be like Titanic.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






salt shakeup posted:

Yeah on reflection I agree with this. There's a rip floating around so I might watch it again with subtitles. On a second viewing it might make more sense, but yeah the climax is confusing and you're trying to figure out WTF is going on which takes you out of the movie. I also thought it would end back at the Opera house.

It was made to watch more than once.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






The Kingfish posted:

Does it actually make sense if you watch it twice?

Yea. Like I didn't really understand all the crap about the Goya painting the first time around but picked it up on the second viewing. Ironically it wasn't even a matter of time fuckery. I had just turned my brain off the first time around.

The main thing that had confused me the most was the car chase and the interrogation with the loudspeaker translating it. I felt like a doofus that I hadn't realized that he shot her before even threatening to do it when I saw it the first time.

Also the temporal pincer move made a hell of a lot more sense for the climax because my brain was able to process that the narrative keeps moving between present and an hour in the future in order to show both teams assaulting as if they're storming the site at the same time. Additionally, I hadn't realized that Neil abandoned his team and went through the turnstile to un-invert himself mid-way through the fight so that he could rescue them. Then he inverts himself again to run into the hypocenter and slam and lock the door.

I was also able to fully appreciate when the collapsed building built itself back up and then explode at the top. That was fun as hell. And for some reason I had also completely missed the dude getting obliterated by the exploded wall sealing back up.

Finally, I noticed how loving insane it must have been to film that entire final assault. You literally see dust collapsing down to the dirt, particles and projectiles going backward while people were sprinting forward, so that means that they had to loving film everyone sprinting in reverse but have it look like their posture / momentum was going the other way and that's just goddamn nuts. Especially with all of the squibs and explosions happening. It reminds me how Jackie Chan said that Americans don't appreciate the art of action cinematography because it requires infinite patience, and in his Hong Kong films they would do as many takes as it took, wasting kilograms of film in order to get the shot right. I CANNOT WAIT for the behind the scenes of this thing.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Android Apocalypse posted:

Windows Movie House will be showing Tenet tomorrow, likely around 10pm EST/7pm PST.

what is this

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






D-Pad posted:

This movie was great and I should have expected there would be a subset of goons who don't understand it so that means it's a bad movie.

Edit: Although to be fair I had headphones and was able to understand most of the dialogue despite the terrible mix.

Goons are literally the most predictable children when a good & popular film comes along.

Here's a good video to dissect why the haters are completely wrong,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3h9OLCMn_2s

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






The Kingfish posted:

crybaby simpletons.. obsessed with understanding dialogue.

sorry your theater / tv has lovely speakers

go see it in imax or get some decent headphones

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






It literally doesn't say that. I think you need help. Maybe get one of your parents to watch it and explain it to you?

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Please do not announce your inner monologue aloud.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






I think this movie is too smart for most posters itt

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Too high brow for these kinds of posters

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Watch a better version ffs. Are y'all paying by the megabyte?

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Groovelord Neato posted:

If I'm remembering it right he unlocks the door, walks in, and takes the bullet.

No. He's inverted. He runs in, closes the door and locks it, and gets shot.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






The reason why they can't just go back later and dig up the algorithm: the minute it gets buried in the dead drop, it will be there for the future generation. The present would get annihilated instantaneously because it's effects propagate backwards through time. That was the whole point of the question about the grandfather paradox. Sure, they might be wrong and it won't affect them, but if they aren't wrong, the entire universe and existence itself is destroyed instantaneously.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPA3CZpsPU0

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






JazzFlight posted:

I don't understand that. I think that would only make sense if they never knew where it was buried or what the villain's plan was to begin with.

Or is this some Bill & Ted "let's make sure to leave the key right here for ourselves" or "put a trash can on the ceiling to drop on our dad's head" stuff and then it just happens because they're the victors and they made sure to come back and do that.


I already said it: if the dead drop succeeds, everything gets annihilated. They talk about it in the shipping container. Protagonist asks if the fact that they're still there means that they will succeed. Neil answers that it depends on the various theories, etc, but they have to still act as if it's possible that they will lose.

You can also reason that digging it up would take an enormous amount of time and resources, leaving them vulnerable to attack and leaks about the location of the algorithm pieces. For Christ sake, there's literally a suggestion that they suicide after burying the pieces at the end.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Groovelord Neato posted:

They'd do that so nobody knows where they buried it. They know where Sator buried it.

I know. That's my point. Read what I said again.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






It's a dead drop being defended by a private military. The way it plays out happened because it's the easiest way to recover the algorithm.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Amarcarts posted:

Yeah I think the concept can be fun until you really start to think about deadly wounds made through inverted means. The movie gets away with it because they focus on non-fatal injuries, but ultimately they are not consistent with the way things interact. A knife wound may conceivably heal on it's own as the movie showed in reverse, but you can also just as easily die from one. If you're shot in the head with an inverted bullet and it lodges in your brain how are you ever alive to make it to the occasion where you are killed when you are going through life with an inverted bullet in your brain?

Pretty sure it just annihilates all the brain mass it passes through before it makes it back to the shell casing.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






DeimosRising posted:

Are you sure youíre thinking of primer, because itís uh...not an action movie at all

Primer is an incredible musical / comedy

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Shaocaholica posted:

Ok and the Indian lady what's her deal? I don't recall them explaining why/how she knows the things she knows or her motivations. Also the way they meet seems so coincidental. Some bullets at the lab were made with metals that probably come from a region of India therefore this specific arms dealer must be a key character in this convoluted time travel plot? That gets settled with no exposition in like 2 cuts.

She's one of the most notorious arms dealers in the world who deals with exotic poo poo. Mission: Impossible literally did this same thing.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Shaocaholica posted:

I think I'll need to rewatch some parts. I don't get how a notorious arms dealer has anything to do with time travel McMuffins. Does she have some relationship with Sator because he's also an arms dealer(?). Is she/has she always been part of Tenet?

She would be the person to go to in order to find inverted munitions. What is there to explain beyond that?

Why is she involved with person X or Y? Because she's got the connect. Jesus.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Android Apocalypse posted:

My random playlist spit out this classic & I've been listening to the album a lot lately.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZE5zXLOyEOQ

Going with Ludwig Göransson was a bold choice.

Yea, Posterity is a banger. Same with the Concert Hall track (the first one) and Trucks in Place.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






gregday posted:

I don’t know why you think a normal car can just become inverted mid scene for the backwards crash. This movie has paradoxical plot holes but that ain’t one of them.

As always, it's best to just ignore SMG. He exists to make connections that aren't really there and to wear down your spirit in CD threads.

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






Time to unsubscribe now that SMG has shown up...

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






SMEGMA_MAIL posted:

Am I missing some sort of in joke here or history I'm missing, or did you come in here out of nowhere just to say you were leaving because of your posting enemy.

Amazing

He quite literally makes every film thread unbearable, and you can't ignore him because for some drat reason everyone replies to his insanity.

For Christ sake he argued the Empire is actually communist in the SW threads

Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






CineD needs a pictures thread like CSPAM has...



edit: not my horrible grammar

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Grandpa Palpatine
Dec 13, 2019






gregday posted:

Eh? Where’s the future P in this scene?

It doesn't. He's wrong.

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