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buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

Got missed but what do you guys think about the R5 3600 paired up with a RTX 3070 for 1440p gameplay? We're right at the edge of the budget and the 5600X being +$100 makes it seem like a no-go, especially if there isnt going to be a $200 CPU in the 5000 series any time before Cyberpunk 2077.

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hambeet
Sep 13, 2002



At 1440p you're relying almost entirely on the graphics card so I would think that the 3600 would be fine.

MrKatharsis
Nov 29, 2003

feel the bern


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Iím moving a bunch of poo poo to a new case/mobo/PSU this week. Anything I should know about moving the CPU over? That looks like itís gonna be the riskiest part. Iíve only ever installed new CPUs into a motherboard, never transferred one to a new build.

Itís a lot easier to pull off a cooler from a warm CPU than a cold one. Donít be like me and bend pins trying to force it out. Mad props to Jayz2cents for showing me how to straighten them though.

Harry Privates
Oct 10, 2007



Going to pick up most parts from Microcenter tomorrow does this seem good?

Kingnothing
Aug 2, 2007




Harry Privates posted:

Going to pick up most parts from Microcenter tomorrow does this seem good?

Ask about open box stuff.

Most of their open box stuff is good, has a good discount, and their return policy is good so you should be fine regardless.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Harry Privates posted:

Going to pick up most parts from Microcenter tomorrow does this seem good?

Personal preference but I am paranoid so I would check for QVL compatability for MOBO/RAM

REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS
Oct 3, 2003

What do you think it means, bitch?


Hey PC build thread, looking for a good basic option for my mom. Not opposed to even something off the shelf, but just need basic web browsing (ability to do zoom etc) and basic office functions (Not even sure SSD or anything is necessary (nor a ton of storage anyway). She wonít likely change or upgrade for a long time so something solid and steady would be best.
Do want the ability for wireless, lots of what Iíve come across doesnít really say, a card w/ antenna shouldnít be too bad though.

REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS fucked around with this message at 16:03 on Oct 18, 2020

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:

Hey PC build thread, looking for a good basic option for my mom. Not opposed to even something off the shelf, but just need basic web browsing (ability to do zoom etc) and basic office functions (Not even sure SSD or anything is necessary (nor a ton of storage anyway). She wonít likely change or upgrade for a long time so something solid and steady would be best.
Do want the ability for wireless, lots of what Iíve come across doesnít really say, a card w/ antenna shouldnít be too bad though.

Iíve had fantastic luck looking locally on OfferUp and Craigslist for used office machines. Theyíre in generally good condition given that they were used in a corporate environment and generally beat out the performance of a $300 entry level desktop off Best Buy.

Kingnothing
Aug 2, 2007




REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:

Hey PC build thread, looking for a good basic option for my mom. Not opposed to even something off the shelf, but just need basic web browsing (ability to do zoom etc) and basic office functions (Not even sure SSD or anything is necessary (nor a ton of storage anyway). She wonít likely change or upgrade for a long time so something solid and steady would be best.
Do want the ability for wireless, lots of what Iíve come across doesnít really say, a card w/ antenna shouldnít be too bad though.

Always always go ssd. The increase in basic observable speed is astronomical compared to the additional cost, even for the most basic of users.

That being said, for a desktop of that low use you should by some kind of inexpensive prebuilt, refurb, or decommissioned workstation. Throw a ssd/wireless card/ram if needed and be done.

nitsuga
Dec 31, 2006

It's the only way to live.

I'm thinking about putting together a CPU/RAM/MB combo instead of reviving an old Intel system I bought not too long ago. Here's what I'm thinking:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Best Buy)
Motherboard: ASRock A520M-ITX/ac Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($53.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CXM 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($79.98 @ Amazon)
Total: $438.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-10-18 15:12 EDT-0400

I'm a casual gamer and would be running them on a 1080p/60hz display. Otherwise, I'd use the PC for storing a bunch of music and messing around with Python/WSL/Ansible/AWS stuff. I've already got a SATA SSD, GTX 970, and good enough ITX case to go with it. So any reason I'd regret an A520 board or any other red flags? I don't think PCIe 4.0 is anything I really need to plan for personally, but I'm no expert. Also, I wouldn't mind some guidance on parsing a QVL memory list. It looks like they list specific chips, but I'm not quite sure: https://www.asrock.com/mb/AMD/A520M...ex.asp#MemoryMS

School of How
Jul 6, 2013


Is this the thread for getting help picking out an Intel NUC model? Currently I'm using a 6-core machine I built recently. During the day I'm booted into Ubuntu doing work (web development), and by evening I boot into Windows to do gaming. Its getting annoying to keep rebooting all the time, so I'm trying to switch over to having the Gaming PC be Windows only, and having a NUC model (or something similar) be an always-on ubuntu machine that is my work computer during the day, and in the evening, I'm using a KVM switch to transfer my mouse/keyboard/monitor over to the windows machine for gaming.

I'm thinking of getting a barebones model that has M.2 and sata support. The CPU needs to be strong enough to handle desktop use and Plex/FTP/torrents/pi-hole/etc in the background, but also have relatively low power consumption, because it's going to be always-on.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust


Grimey Drawer

I'd wait for the TIger Lake NUCs since they will have the integrated Xe graphics. Though that only really matters for gaming.

The current NUCs are kind of anemic.

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

Don't look at me-
I'm ugly in the morning
When the headaches gone
The sun is not.
Forgot to turn the alarm
On - on




Pillbug

Kingnothing posted:

Always always go ssd. The increase in basic observable speed is astronomical compared to the additional cost, even for the most basic of users.

That being said, for a desktop of that low use you should by some kind of inexpensive prebuilt, refurb, or decommissioned workstation. Throw a ssd/wireless card/ram if needed and be done.

Agreed. Iíve had to buy a bunch of office computers for a few different places and always just put together proposals that are ďbulk buy Dell prebuilts on NeweggĒ and itís always gone great.

Stan Taylor
Oct 13, 2013

Touched Fuzzy, Got Dizzy

In terms of CPUs for gaming, whatís the best bang for buck/longevity between the zen 2 and 3 lines? Save a hundo with a 3600 or go for a 5600 or use that same money on a 3700?

Some Goon
Jan 6, 2013

A golden helix streaked skyward from the Helvault. A thunderous explosion shattered the silver monolith and Avacyn emerged, free from her prison at last.




Stan Taylor posted:

In terms of CPUs for gaming, what’s the best bang for buck/longevity between the zen 2 and 3 lines? Save a hundo with a 3600 or go for a 5600 or use that same money on a 3700?

There's no 5600 benchmarks yet. If a 6C/12T processor will become threadbound in its useful life is one of the great debates in pc building and no one knows for sure.

Kingnothing
Aug 2, 2007




School of How posted:

Is this the thread for getting help picking out an Intel NUC model? Currently I'm using a 6-core machine I built recently. During the day I'm booted into Ubuntu doing work (web development), and by evening I boot into Windows to do gaming. Its getting annoying to keep rebooting all the time, so I'm trying to switch over to having the Gaming PC be Windows only, and having a NUC model (or something similar) be an always-on ubuntu machine that is my work computer during the day, and in the evening, I'm using a KVM switch to transfer my mouse/keyboard/monitor over to the windows machine for gaming.

I'm thinking of getting a barebones model that has M.2 and sata support. The CPU needs to be strong enough to handle desktop use and Plex/FTP/torrents/pi-hole/etc in the background, but also have relatively low power consumption, because it's going to be always-on.

Why not run unbuntu in VM? That seems infinitely simpler than rebooting constantly or having two physical machines.

Monoclinic
Dec 10, 2005



Kingnothing posted:

Why not run unbuntu in VM? That seems infinitely simpler than rebooting constantly or having two physical machines.

Yeah, I used to have a dual boot system but now I just use Windows Subsystem for Linux in Win 10. It's great for Ubuntu functionality without as much hassle.

SpaceSDoorGunner
May 4, 2018



Kingnothing posted:

Why not run unbuntu in VM? That seems infinitely simpler than rebooting constantly or having two physical machines.

Yeah ubtunu runs great as a VM even on my 2014 laptop.

Even if I was going to use Linux full time Iíd probably run it in VM inside mac or windows since it offers so much flexibility and you can switch machines for extra security or different tool sets, I have one Ubuntu machine for making GBS threads up browser games with goons, one for banking stuff and a Kali machine to learn networking and security stuff.

Basically the whole reason Iím here is so that I can start to run those machines concurrently with metasploitable and stuff.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013



I built my new computer on like Thursday and it's been running great. Had some issues updating Win10 from my pro install that I had from like, years ago, but had to manually download and install it and it's been going just fine!


I'm also real dumb so I don't know how temps work and if they are good:

playing ff14 at maximum, at 2k resolution, the cpu is pretty much at like 50-55 range.

is that good or should I try to cool down the case more or get a better fan

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

Thats incredibly good and I wish my CPU could stay that low. My average temps in my small form factor case are 68-78. Above 80 is when I start to feel uncomfortable and 90 is definitely not good and 100 is usually where the processor will slow down to save itself (though usually it will be doing that on its own to prevent getting to that point to begin with). Technically high heat wont kill a modern processor , but its generally an expensive component so people want to take care of it so it lives as long as possible, even though it'll likely be obsolete before it "burns out".

Kingnothing
Aug 2, 2007




Asema posted:

I built my new computer on like Thursday and it's been running great. Had some issues updating Win10 from my pro install that I had from like, years ago, but had to manually download and install it and it's been going just fine!


I'm also real dumb so I don't know how temps work and if they are good:

playing ff14 at maximum, at 2k resolution, the cpu is pretty much at like 50-55 range.

is that good or should I try to cool down the case more or get a better fan

50-55 at decent load is fantastic.

Asema
Oct 2, 2013



that makes me feel much better lmao, the fans are so loving quiet compared to my old pc and i've been worried about them even being on (they are) so monitoring the temp has been a back and forth of keeping the ryzen master thing on the second monitor making sure it wasn't getting too hot

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

REMEMBER SPONGE MONKEYS posted:

Hey PC build thread, looking for a good basic option for my mom. Not opposed to even something off the shelf, but just need basic web browsing (ability to do zoom etc) and basic office functions (Not even sure SSD or anything is necessary (nor a ton of storage anyway). She wonít likely change or upgrade for a long time so something solid and steady would be best.
Do want the ability for wireless, lots of what Iíve come across doesnít really say, a card w/ antenna shouldnít be too bad though.

I would recommend a refurbished laptop from Newegg. I've gotten them for family who don't game and they always work great!

Black Friday is also coming up, and you should be able to get good laptops at Best Buy or the other big brick stores for super cheap.

Stan Taylor posted:

In terms of CPUs for gaming, whatís the best bang for buck/longevity between the zen 2 and 3 lines? Save a hundo with a 3600 or go for a 5600 or use that same money on a 3700?

Ryzen 3600 or 3700 is the sweet spot right now. The 3700 is a bit better than what is in the 9th Gen consoles, so that should be ~future proofed~ for the next few years. If you are okay with tick-tocking your build, you could save money on a 3600 now and leave room to upgrade to Zen3 when prices/availability stabilize. The 5600 will almost certainly be better, but by how much or whether that will be needed for mainstream is unknown.

I went with the 3700 last month and it owns bones and I am not at all worried about being CPU limited. If that does happen because...idk, Star Citizen actually gets released ( yeah right: 2010 wants its graphics back) then I can always upgrade to a 5800 in a year or two...

Asema posted:

I built my new computer on like Thursday and it's been running great. Had some issues updating Win10 from my pro install that I had from like, years ago, but had to manually download and install it and it's been going just fine!


I'm also real dumb so I don't know how temps work and if they are good:

playing ff14 at maximum, at 2k resolution, the cpu is pretty much at like 50-55 range.

is that good or should I try to cool down the case more or get a better fan

That's really good.

If you really want to wear the CPU in, turn on SuperPi for 30 minutes or so, leaving the CPU at 100%. My 140mm Noctua tower cooler keeps mine under 60 at full load!

Just to : anything below 75 is perfectly fine, 80 is when you start to pay attention, and anything over 85C needs to be addressed with additional/better cooling. After 85C, best case your CPU will throttle to cool off, worst case it strokes out to save itself. The latter is pretty rare/next to impossible in modern CPUs, but "poo poo happens," as they say.

And yeah, modern fans and coolers are pretty amazing. At idle/netflix levels, my rig is basically silent. At full load, it is about as loud as my last rig was at idle.

schizophrenic
Jul 29, 2004
<3

Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

Just to : anything below 75 is perfectly fine, 80 is when you start to pay attention, and anything over 85C needs to be addressed with additional/better cooling. After 85C, best case your CPU will throttle to cool off, worst case it strokes out to save itself. The latter is pretty rare/next to impossible in modern CPUs, but "poo poo happens," as they say.

And yeah, modern fans and coolers are pretty amazing. At idle/netflix levels, my rig is basically silent. At full load, it is about as loud as my last rig was at idle.
Oh man, jealous of your temps. My 3700x with a Noctua U14S in a Meshify C idles in 40s and sits at 72C under load.
Modern cases, coolers and fans are indeed great, just built a new work comp in a Define C. So much better designed then old poo poo.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

schizophrenic posted:

Oh man, jealous of your temps. My 3700x with a Noctua U14S in a Meshify C idles in 40s and sits at 72C under load.
Modern cases, coolers and fans are indeed great, just built a new work comp in a Define C. So much better designed then old poo poo.

I was really surprised by how a lot of the high-end case specs I remember from 10+ years ago are now standard: removeable panels, snap-in HDDs slots, big finger-screws everywhere, and lots of rubber holes so I can sweep all of my terrible cable management under the rug! It looks like a professional build (as long as you don't pull off the back panel)!

I went with a big Phanteks full tower: the three 120mm fans on top just dump room-temp air right onto the U14S.

It'll spike to 63 sometimes.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

Remember that Mac Minis for whatever ungodly reason run like at 95C

Asema
Oct 2, 2013



how much is throwing a 3080 going to loving destroy this temp, like the card should be able to cool itself down right and the airflow shouldn't be around the cpu?

CaptainPsyko
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


buglord posted:

Remember that Mac Minis for whatever ungodly reason run like at 95C

The "ungodly reason" is because when presented with "Quiet" "Small" and "Reasonable Thermal Design" and told to pick two, Apple is basically the most predictable company in the world.

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

Asema posted:

how much is throwing a 3080 going to loving destroy this temp, like the card should be able to cool itself down right and the airflow shouldn't be around the cpu?
If Iím reading your post history right, you already have a 1080Ti so the temp difference might not be too much?That card draws around 400 watts on load(anandtech review), the 3080 appears to be slightly lower than that at 338 watts (guru3d review). I have every reason to think youíll be fine with lots and lots of thermal headroom to spare.

e: phoneposting so I canít check, but I vaguely remember the 3080 reference design not having a huge impact on processor heat when reviewed. That changes a little bit Iím SFF/ITX builds where space is limited and where youíre probably stuffing everything into a ďsandwichĒ layout like the DAN A4 (where youíre likely heating up the GPU more than the processor in that case). Again I think youíll be fine if you already have temps this low with the current CPU and 1080Ti.

buglord fucked around with this message at 04:22 on Oct 19, 2020

A good poster
Jan 10, 2010


I'm planning on buying a new motherboard with an M2 slot or two to start using an M2 SSD, and I was hoping to keep my current socket 1151 CPU. Do they still make new CPUs for that socket so I can just throw in a new one when I want to upgrade, or are new processors moving to other socket types so I'd wind up having to buy a whole new mobo again?

buglord
Jul 31, 2010




Buglord

Short answer is yes, you'd need a new motherboard. As far as intel goes, even if the socket doesnt change, the chipsets (B150/B250/B350..etc) do and Intel tends to not support the chipsets very long. I have a i7 8700 from 2018 which is the same socket as you have, but a Z370i chipset motherboard. If I wanted to upgrade to this year's 10700k, I need to replace my my motherboard to a 400 series one (like a B450/Z470). Its kinda bogus.

While AMD is generally better at not forcing customers to upgrade their motherboards as often, I believe their upcoming processor lineup is the last which will be on the current AM4 socket. So if you went the AMD route and bought a CPU & mobo today, you'd also have to upgrade to a new motherboard since they'd be on the new socket after this gen.

buglord fucked around with this message at 08:12 on Oct 19, 2020

Whiskey A Go Go!
May 7, 2007

So if I break a bone, I get a cookie? Good deal!



I been running the same power supply for the past 7 years (EVGA Supernova G2 750W). With the 3080's huge power requirements and the new Ryzen 3700x and X570 motherboard I just installed a few months ago, is it worth while to get a new power supply sooner rather than later? I been eyeballing the Corsair Rm850x as it usually drops in price during Black Friday and it reviewed extremely well. I am not having any issues with my current one, the age of it is my major concern as it is the oldest part in my PC at the moment .

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

Begone Trump, hello cool dog, you're welcome. And be ein good goon.


You can run a 3080 and a 3700x on a 600w power supply so don't change for that reason, 750w is more than enough for that system. General advice about PSUs is use them for as long as they're guaranteed for then look to replace them after that. Looks like your PSU has a 10 year warranty so you're good for another few years at least.

sean10mm
Jun 29, 2005

Only dead doggos
follow the stream.



Whiskey A Go Go! posted:

I been running the same power supply for the past 7 years (EVGA Supernova G2 750W). With the 3080's huge power requirements and the new Ryzen 3700x and X570 motherboard I just installed a few months ago, is it worth while to get a new power supply sooner rather than later? I been eyeballing the Corsair Rm850x as it usually drops in price during Black Friday and it reviewed extremely well. I am not having any issues with my current one, the age of it is my major concern as it is the oldest part in my PC at the moment .

You don't really need more than a 750W PSU, but depending on how long your PSU's warranty is you might want to replace it if it's close to expiring.

A 3700x stock has a peak power draw of like 88 watts. Throw in everything else but the video card and you're like 150w total maybe?

jammyozzy
Dec 7, 2006

Is that a challenge?

jammyozzy posted:


PCPartPicker Part List

Motherboard: MSI MAG B550M BAZOOKA Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard (£119.99 @ Box Limited)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case (£86.49 @ Scan.co.uk)
[
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-10-09 23:14 BST+0100

This is from a few pages back but I went ahead and ordered this, albeit with a 1660 rather than a 2060 I originally specced. Every EVGA authorised seller was out of 1660 Supers which was kind of a bummer, but the plain 1660 is still such a huge upgrade for me I'm well pleased.

Everything went together without a hitch, except trying to connect the front USB plug to the the mobo. The rubber grommet around the cable port in the case presses on the plug and tries to bend the front edge of the board down when you connect it. I ended up unhooking part of the grommet where the cable passes and have it hanging awkwardly halfway out of the hole. It looks kinda goofy but is better than having the header constantly trying to bend the mobo.

Similarly the SATA ports are offset vertically from the cable ports, and I don't think the upper two ports are usable at all without some serious cable abuse. Luckily I still have the lower two ports available and only two SATA things I need to plug in, but it might be a concern if you're considering this case + mobo combo and want to use more ports.

Spacedad
Sep 11, 2001

We go play orbital catch around the curvature of the earth, son.

Butterfly Valley posted:

You can run a 3080 and a 3700x on a 600w power supply so don't change for that reason, 750w is more than enough for that system. General advice about PSUs is use them for as long as they're guaranteed for then look to replace them after that. Looks like your PSU has a 10 year warranty so you're good for another few years at least.

I've got me a beefy big-boy 850w gold power supply you folks suggested to me due to my animation profession and it's great that I actually have enough overhead to put a 3090 in there if I ever have a need & budget for it.

Also I recently found out that 3090s fit in meshify c cases. (My case.) WITH the front fans on.

That said, my plan right now is to get a 3080 when the stocks and prices stabilize, and a new display. (There's some impressive options that combine art-oriented color accuracy with gaming capability lately too.)

Whiskey A Go Go!
May 7, 2007

So if I break a bone, I get a cookie? Good deal!



Butterfly Valley posted:

You can run a 3080 and a 3700x on a 600w power supply so don't change for that reason, 750w is more than enough for that system. General advice about PSUs is use them for as long as they're guaranteed for then look to replace them after that. Looks like your PSU has a 10 year warranty so you're good for another few years at least.

Looking at my warranty is showing that i have 1615 days of warranty so I am good for 4 years. Glad to see that this advice still holds strong since 2013.

sean10mm posted:

You don't really need more than a 750W PSU, but depending on how long your PSU's warranty is you might want to replace it if it's close to expiring.

A 3700x stock has a peak power draw of like 88 watts. Throw in everything else but the video card and you're like 150w total maybe?

I am not overclocking anything, other than my ram's XMP profile to work at 3600. I was seeing reports of people with good power supplies having their whole systems reset when they were using the 3080 but digging into their claims showed they were stress testing the card to the max and overclocking the CPU and GPU. Normal power draw on hte 3080 doesn't look that bad compared to my 1080ti so I can upgrade to the 3080 with confidence. IF I can get one in 2021.

Toxic Fart Syndrome
Jul 2, 2006

*hits A-THREAD-5*

Only 3.6 Roentgoons per hour ... not great, not terrible.




...the meter only goes to 3.6...



Pork Pro

Whiskey A Go Go! posted:

I been running the same power supply for the past 7 years (EVGA Supernova G2 750W). With the 3080's huge power requirements and the new Ryzen 3700x and X570 motherboard I just installed a few months ago, is it worth while to get a new power supply sooner rather than later? I been eyeballing the Corsair Rm850x as it usually drops in price during Black Friday and it reviewed extremely well. I am not having any issues with my current one, the age of it is my major concern as it is the oldest part in my PC at the moment .

That's a really good PSU, from what I understand, but, me personally: I would be worried about putting that much new hardware on an ~older~ PSU. Still within the warranty, so if anything happens you should be covered , but a new PSU is 10-15% of the cost of the CPU/Mobo/GPU you mentioned, so why risk it?

I am old, so 10-year warranties as standard still gives me side-eye...

spunkshui
Oct 5, 2011





Its worth considering how hard it is to get a new PSU, and how important it is for your computer to turn on.

Do local stores have one if yours dies? Can you wait for one in the mail? Right now they are popular to buy.

Upgrading a PSU early gives you access to an old emergency PSU you can toss in if another one fails down the road.

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your friend wicka
Jun 28, 2007

Huski Chocolate is a lifestyle, not only a product. It's about adventure & expedition. Living life to the fullest. It's a perfect recovery drink after training, because of the healthy carbohydrate and protein content, easy to digest and perfect for replenishing tired muscles.



Toxic Fart Syndrome posted:

That's a really good PSU, from what I understand, but, me personally: I would be worried about putting that much new hardware on an ~older~ PSU. Still within the warranty, so if anything happens you should be covered , but a new PSU is 10-15% of the cost of the CPU/Mobo/GPU you mentioned, so why risk it?

I am old, so 10-year warranties as standard still gives me side-eye...

Back in 2002 my friend's power supply died and took his brand new Ti4200 with it. I will never stop being paranoid about power supplies no matter what anyone tells me.

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