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SalTheBard
Jan 26, 2005


I forgot to post my food for USPOL Thanksgiving but that's okay too!




Fallen Rib

Sanity check:. I can get an msi rx 6700-xt for $800. I have a 1070, would I be a dumb gently caress to buy a 6700xt when I've never really dabbled in the AMD environment?

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CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


roomforthetuna posted:

Man, those SN550 *are* reasonably priced. Last I heard EVO was always the thing to do for SSDs, is that information also a decade out of date?
eh it's still a solid choice it's just the SN550 is that price/performance sweet spot.

quote:

So I was playing around on pcpartpicker trying to scope out the vague ballpark of what I want, and now I have more questions.

Last time I had a desktop PC the way of things was the motherboard had a lovely GPU on it. Now I see people are talking about whether the CPU has an integrated GPU - does that mean motherboards don't, or is it just different tiers of lovely? I was looking at this ASRock B550 which in the specs says "Integrated AMD Radeon Vega Series Graphics in Ryzen Series APU*" but then the asterisk says "Actual support may vary by CPU", what does that even mean?

think you have a slight misconception - it's not the motherboard that has an integrated GPU (or iGPU, as contrasted with a dGPU or discreet GPU), it's the CPU. when it comes to ryzen the rule is if it has a G in the title it has integrated graphics, otherwise it does not. a chip without integrated graphics can't even send a video signal, you always need some kind of dGPU paired with it. motherboards will list that they are compatable with iGPUs (and this is why they have video outputs) but unless your chip has the functionality it's not used for anything.

quote:

How do you tell if a PSU is any good these days? Another thing pcpartpicker was keen on doing was saying the PSU I selected didn't have a 4 pin connector that the motherboard wants and maybe that's okay. I was selecting Antec because ten years ago that was how you get a PSU that won't burn your house down, but to get one with that connector I ended up selecting a "Power Master", which sounds like a terrible idea.

someone already linked the LTT list, that's what you wanna pick from imo.

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!


CoolCab posted:

think you have a slight misconception - it's not the motherboard that has an integrated GPU
Thanks, that's what I thought it probably meant now.
(I was saying it *used to be* that the motherboard had a GPU on it, this was >10 years ago, everything is clearly different and confusing to my old man brain. Having motherboard descriptions saying they do GPU stuff is extra confusing because last time I was looking at these things that was true, I started out pretty sure now it's not, but those descriptions were making me doubt my understanding of the way things had changed.)

Ugly In The Morning
Jul 1, 2010

So pat yourself on the back and give yourself a handshake
'Cause everything is not yet lost




Pillbug

SalTheBard posted:

Sanity check:. I can get an msi rx 6700-xt for $800. I have a 1070, would I be a dumb gently caress to buy a 6700xt when I've never really dabbled in the AMD environment?

Itís a graphics card for less than a thousand dollars. It may have some driver problems but I would go for it ASAP.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


Ugly In The Morning posted:

Itís a graphics card for less than a thousand dollars. It may have some driver problems but I would go for it ASAP.

also that's RRP for that card (or 790 usd as far as i can figure)- it's a really high end 6700 XT although that's kind of an atypical configuration it seems like? in the current madness it's closer to a good deal for sure - ouch it's 300 dollars more than the stock 6700 XT but cheaper than a scalper.

Bofast
Feb 21, 2011



Grimey Drawer

roomforthetuna posted:

Man, those SN550 *are* reasonably priced. Last I heard EVO was always the thing to do for SSDs, is that information also a decade out of date?

So I was playing around on pcpartpicker trying to scope out the vague ballpark of what I want, and now I have more questions.

Last time I had a desktop PC the way of things was the motherboard had a lovely GPU on it. Now I see people are talking about whether the CPU has an integrated GPU - does that mean motherboards don't, or is it just different tiers of lovely? I was looking at this ASRock B550 which in the specs says "Integrated AMD Radeon Vega Series Graphics in Ryzen Series APU*" but then the asterisk says "Actual support may vary by CPU", what does that even mean?

How do you tell if a PSU is any good these days? Another thing pcpartpicker was keen on doing was saying the PSU I selected didn't have a 4 pin connector that the motherboard wants and maybe that's okay. I was selecting Antec because ten years ago that was how you get a PSU that won't burn your house down, but to get one with that connector I ended up selecting a "Power Master", which sounds like a terrible idea.

You might still see server boards with integrated graphics on them, but on the consumer side it's pretty much all on the CPU these days.
The "Actual support may vary by CPU" part just means that since the board supports APUs (CPUs with integrated graphics on them) and regular CPUs (without graphics) the integrated graphics part depends on what CPU you pair it with.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

roomforthetuna posted:

Man, those SN550 *are* reasonably priced. Last I heard EVO was always the thing to do for SSDs, is that information also a decade out of date?

It's dangerous to make far reaching conclusions based on brand when it's pretty trivial to check from reviews what is the current reality. This applies to all computer components.

My understanding is that up to the 850 models Samsungs were one of the best performing models, trustworthy and about the best price-performance ratio, so they were the preferred drives. Later models were still just as good, but they were judged to be overpriced compared to the competition so they fell out of favour. In only the past year their prices has fallen enough at least on sales, that they have gained some of their favour back. But I remember also seeing opinions in the SSD megathread that their price has fallen because the performance isn't quite where it should be. From the Anandtech SSD 980 review:

quote:

Compared to its most important competitor, the year-old WD Blue SN550, the Samsung SSD 980 clearly hits better highs but also has more serious pitfalls. Both drives are DRAMless SSDs optimized for workloads that don't handle too much data at once. When a workload strays outside those limits, the WD Blue SN550 is the clear winner that holds up better under heavier workloads. Which of the two drives is preferable will largely come down to pricing.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



I hate to dive-bomb the thread like this but what the gently caress happened to low/mid-range GPUs? How is a 1660S 70*? Did a fab catch covid and sink into a swamp?

Alucard
Mar 11, 2002


Pillbug

Schadenboner posted:

I hate to dive-bomb the thread like this but what the gently caress happened to low/mid-range GPUs? How is a 1660S 70*? Did a fab catch covid and sink into a swamp?



A high tide raises all scalpers

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



Alucard posted:

A high tide raises all scalpers

This is the part of the post where I say that (while excelent) a 1660S is simply not able to provide 700 bucks of value and that the scalpers will all die hubristic and ironic deaths, crushed under collapsed piles of their own unsellable inventory but we all know that's not true.

Killer_B
May 22, 2005


Butterfly Valley posted:

You get two dedicated gen 4 lanes on b550 boards - one to an NVMe slot, one to the primary PCIE slot.

What's going on with your storage? You might as well just get a 1 or 2TB SN550 instead of buying a smaller one and then an additional SSD.

I personally don't think there's much point upgrading your RAM if you already have 32GB of 3000 speed. If you are dead set on upgrading it, I'd want at least CL16 3600 RAM to see a noticeable difference, but it's still only going to be a low single digit fps increase. I'd save the money for the hypothetical future GPU fund.

So far as simple file storage, I've got a 4TB Hitachi that will get the job done, I guess I didn't think about just getting a single larger SSD drive.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


Schadenboner posted:

I hate to dive-bomb the thread like this but what the gently caress happened to low/mid-range GPUs? How is a 1660S 70*? Did a fab catch covid and sink into a swamp?



we have a whole GPU thread you'd be welcome in but long answer short - demand has never been higher for a bunch of good (covid related extra money sloshing around, gamers having skipped the previous generation for being poor value, ludicrous pricing hype this gen was insane before tariffs, etc) and a bunch of utterly terrible (shortages due to drought/covid, global silicon production bottlenecks and, this is a big one, a new crypto boom).

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!


So taking what I've learned so far from this thread, which I'm sure is not enough, I've proposed this bucket of bolts - what horrible mistakes have I made?

Dubious assumption 1: Ryzen 3 3.6GHz with 4 cores would perform almost-comparably to a higher-end 3.6GHz Ryzen with 6 cores for most tasks, and at approximately 2/3 the performance for highly parallelizable tasks.
Dubious assumption 2: Integrated graphics won't significantly impact CPU performance.
Dubious assumption 3: The case is basically irrelevant if you don't care what it looks like, so long as air-flow isn't a disaster.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/22WKTJ

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



CoolCab posted:

we have a whole GPU thread you'd be welcome in but long answer short - demand has never been higher for a bunch of good (covid related extra money sloshing around, gamers having skipped the previous generation for being poor value, ludicrous pricing hype this gen was insane before tariffs, etc) and a bunch of utterly terrible (shortages due to drought/covid, global silicon production bottlenecks and, this is a big one, a new crypto boom).

Sorry, I'm finally getting around to a refresh of my home machine after having to scrap a planned build a year or 18 months ago and goddamn: the sticker-shock.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


roomforthetuna posted:

So taking what I've learned so far from this thread, which I'm sure is not enough, I've proposed this bucket of bolts - what horrible mistakes have I made?

Dubious assumption 1: Ryzen 3 3.6GHz with 4 cores would perform almost-comparably to a higher-end 3.6GHz Ryzen with 6 cores for most tasks, and at approximately 2/3 the performance for highly parallelizable tasks.
is the 3200g the specific chip, sorry? for a technical reason i don't fully understand you can't really shop on just mhz anymore, at least not for gaming. you have to look at thread count (this one is 4 threads which is kind of low)and uh, my brain is saying "IPC tasks" but i don't know where i picked that up, lol. i've heard good things about this chip but it's pretty budget, depends what you're looking to spend.

quote:

Dubious assumption 2: Integrated graphics won't significantly impact CPU performance.
no i think it does but like, in most GPU tasks it's going to bottleneck itself quite severely i think? not sure on this one.

quote:

Dubious assumption 3: The case is basically irrelevant if you don't care what it looks like, so long as air-flow isn't a disaster.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/22WKTJ

mostly yeah - the front IO (usb ports and stuff), ease of building in and poo poo like cable management runs or w/e or other nice to have features are OK but have no functional purpose.

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust



A Ryzen 3 3200g and 64gigs of RAM is an odd combo. You also have the wrong WD SSD. You want the SN550 which is an NVME drive. Not the SATA version like on your list. What was this pc for again? I think you can save some money on the motherboard and psu as well but just want more info.

Mu Zeta fucked around with this message at 15:15 on May 1, 2021

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


yeah unfortunately ryzen is a generation behind with their iGPUs, although they're still miles better than what came before. they sell higher end ones but only in prebuilds, it's a PITA.

taqueso
Mar 8, 2004









Schadenboner posted:

Sorry, I'm finally getting around to a refresh of my home machine after having to scrap a planned build a year or 18 months ago and goddamn: the sticker-shock.

It's pretty much the worst time to try buying a graphics card, ever.

njsykora
Jan 23, 2012

Robots confuse squirrels.

If you find an old card in a box somewhere while cleaning up like the 750Ti I found a few days ago though it's great.

Schadenboner
Aug 15, 2011

I MEAN, TURN OFF YOURE MONITOR, MIGTH EXPLAIN YOUR BAD POSTS, HOPE THIS HELPS?!



This is goddamn absurd, I might just end up buying a crappy desktop from Dell or something until the world gets its poo poo sorted-out.

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!


Mu Zeta posted:

A Ryzen 3 3200g and 64gigs of RAM is an odd combo. You also have the wrong WD SSD. You want the SN550 which is an NVME drive. Not the SATA version like on your list. What was this pc for again? I think you can save some money on the motherboard and psu as well but just want more info.
Ah, I thought M.2-2280 implied it's not SATA - thanks for catching that. (Updated to https://pcpartpicker.com/list/vJjbYg )

The main intent of the PC is for software development - most likely I'd be running several android emulators, compiling stuff and running the IDE. I like a lot of RAM for compiling stuff because, well, it's never a bad thing anyway of course, but I also like to also configure stuff so the temporary files go on a RAMdisk, which speeds up compiling by a lot and also eliminates some unnecessary wear on the storage. 64GB might be a bit overboard even with that in mind, but I think it can probably help out with spinning emulators up and down too. Maybe the odd virtual machine as well.

The lower-powered CPU seemed to be the only way to get a CPU with integrated graphics, which seemed to save a lot of money by not requiring also spending $100 on a graphics card that's not worth $20. If there's a better idea on this front I'd be happy to take it.

roomforthetuna fucked around with this message at 17:10 on May 1, 2021

Mu Zeta
Oct 17, 2002

Me crush ass to dust



It sounds like you could really benefit from a faster processor like a 5600 or even the older 3700x. But yeah with video cards right now it's all hosed. But the 3200g is so ancient I'd pick the Intel 1100 over that. Hope someone else chimes in.

Butterfly Valley
Apr 19, 2007

Begone Trump, hello cool dog, you're welcome. And be ein good goon.


roomforthetuna posted:

The lower-powered CPU seemed to be the only way to get a CPU with integrated graphics, which seemed to save a lot of money by not requiring also spending $100 on a graphics card that's not worth $20. If there's a better idea on this front I'd be happy to take it.

See if you can find the 3400g rather than the 3200g, for double the threads

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




If your thirsting for iGPU with a decently Powered processor, then youíre looking at intel.

Probably a 10 or 11 series intel, maybe 11600k or 10900k if you can find a reasonable price. People here poo poo on intel because theyíre generally priced higher for worse performance, but iGPU limits you.

You donít have ANY GPU laying around? Or friends that may have one? Frankly, in your shoes Iíd buy a 5600x or 5800x, then go into a local shop and buy any GPU under $100 and youíll come out ahead.

If you live near micro center, youíll find something. Otherwise Best Buy, local computer shops, GameStop (seriously), or anything else that may have one.

spunkshui
Oct 5, 2011





Schadenboner posted:

This is goddamn absurd, I might just end up buying a crappy desktop from Dell or something until the world gets its poo poo sorted-out.

Dont support dell. They use weird parts and have terrible practices like hiding subscriptions in their pc sales.

Dell has been consistently terrible about these things the last few years even with the community calling them out on them.

They don't seem to care.

Also they like to ship things with 1x stick of ram.

CoolCab
Apr 17, 2005

OH WOW! Have I shoehorned my INCREDIBLY BORING story about how I met James Corden at the Greggs at Chievely services on the M4 into this thread yet? Of course I have because that's LITERALLY the most interesting thing about me.

PLEASE TELL ME (and James Corden) TO EAT SHIT


honestly i'll provide a contrary opinion here and say: you can find some cheap POS gpu on facebook market or something, like a 1050ti or something goes on sale sometimes - anything good but not good enough to mine on is, well, still insanely priced but you'll only be blowing fifty bucks or whatever if you can find it cheap.

e: and that would allow you to go hunting for like a 3100, a 3300x if you're very lucky or a secondhand 3600 or that intel equivalant or something. tons of good, price competitive chips this generation don't have iGPUs.

vanilla slimfast
Dec 6, 2006

If anyone needs me, I'll be in the Angry Dome




For software dev, the 5600X (6c/12t) or 5800X (8c/16t) are going to be great choices, depending on your budget

MonkeyFit
May 13, 2009


SalTheBard posted:

Sanity check:. I can get an msi rx 6700-xt for $800. I have a 1070, would I be a dumb gently caress to buy a 6700xt when I've never really dabbled in the AMD environment?

So I got a MSI 6700XT 12GB at the beginning of April, but was able to return it this week and get a 3090 instead. About $750-$800 is MSRP on those right now, and it appeared to be a solid card. I wouldn't expect to do 4k gaming on it, but it should handle 16:9 1440p pretty well. I don't have any super brand new games, but I was able to max out graphics on everything I do have at 1200p without issue. Unless you're dead set on getting something better, and paying more as a result, that's going to be a reasonable price right now.

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!


vanilla slimfast posted:

For software dev, the 5600X (6c/12t) or 5800X (8c/16t) are going to be great choices, depending on your budget
I'm leaning towards being cheap, because I've been developing on laptops for the last 10 years so y'know, as long as it's faster than a [checks current CPU] "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)", I'm not going to be especially upset by it.

So new picks based on suggestions here, going Intel because of the iGPU as suggested by some, and because cpubenchmark.net puts this one at the top of the list for "sorted by value" (determined by rating-per-dollar). I think the suggestion "Intel 1100" was probably supposed to be "Intel 11400"?

I realize benchmarks are weird and not necessarily indicative of real performance, but given how much trouble I have making any sense of what it means to have more threads / cores / MHz, I figure benchmarks are probably a better approximation than me guessing, and going with the 11400 with iGPU more than doubles the benchmark score for somewhat less than doubling the price I was previously looking at, and means I can get a cheaper motherboard too so the total price is only slightly changed, for about a 2.5X benchmark score improvement. (Though the motherboard change also goes from ATX to micro ATX and loses the spare RAM slots - but 64GB seems like I'm unlikely to need to go up further so that's okay.)

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TP9X7X

(Would it be worth going another $40 up on the motherboard for more RAM slots and the addition of a USB 3.2 Gen2x2 header and 2.5Gbps ethernet? I don't have anything that uses those things right now, but future-proofing in the direction of peripherals seems more reasonable than other kinds of future-proofing.)

Doctor Spaceman
Jul 6, 2010

"Everyone's entitled to their point of view, but that's seriously a weird one."


Looking to upgrade my TV box (used for 1080p gaming, streaming etc).

Currently have an i3 so I'll need a new CPU, mobo, RAM. Also going to get a new SSD. Everything else I can carry over from the current build (mid-tower case, RX470 video card, etc).

Given those requirements (and being in Australia) how does this look:
https://au.pcpartpicker.com/list/mRdyGc
?
CPU: Ryzen 3600
Mobo: MSI-B550A
Drive: WD SN550 Digital Blue 1TB

DerekSmartymans
Feb 14, 2005

The
Copacetic
Ascetic


CoolCab posted:

we have a whole GPU thread you'd be welcome in but long answer short - demand has never been higher for a bunch of good (covid related extra money sloshing around, gamers having skipped the previous generation for being poor value, ludicrous pricing hype this gen was insane before tariffs, etc) and a bunch of utterly terrible (shortages due to drought/covid, global silicon production bottlenecks and, this is a big one, a new crypto boom).

Donít forget CPUs for car manufacturers and EVERY MOTHERFUCKIN HDD on the shelves because of the Chia pets.

Pilfered Pallbearers
Aug 2, 2007




roomforthetuna posted:

I'm leaning towards being cheap, because I've been developing on laptops for the last 10 years so y'know, as long as it's faster than a [checks current CPU] "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)", I'm not going to be especially upset by it.

So new picks based on suggestions here, going Intel because of the iGPU as suggested by some, and because cpubenchmark.net puts this one at the top of the list for "sorted by value" (determined by rating-per-dollar). I think the suggestion "Intel 1100" was probably supposed to be "Intel 11400"?

I realize benchmarks are weird and not necessarily indicative of real performance, but given how much trouble I have making any sense of what it means to have more threads / cores / MHz, I figure benchmarks are probably a better approximation than me guessing, and going with the 11400 with iGPU more than doubles the benchmark score for somewhat less than doubling the price I was previously looking at, and means I can get a cheaper motherboard too so the total price is only slightly changed, for about a 2.5X benchmark score improvement. (Though the motherboard change also goes from ATX to micro ATX and loses the spare RAM slots - but 64GB seems like I'm unlikely to need to go up further so that's okay.)

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TP9X7X

(Would it be worth going another $40 up on the motherboard for more RAM slots and the addition of a USB 3.2 Gen2x2 header and 2.5Gbps ethernet? I don't have anything that uses those things right now, but future-proofing in the direction of peripherals seems more reasonable than other kinds of future-proofing.)

Ignore those lovely benchmarks, but If thatís your price range, intel 11400 is for sure the way to go.

Do you use Ethernet, and will you actually take advantage of 2.5 gbps speed?

Do you use any USB connected peripheral that could utilize anything faster that USB 3.0 (IE a very expensive external SSD or extremely specialized hardware youíd already be aware of)?

If the answer is no to both of those, then itís not worth the cost upgrade. I also doubt above 64gb of ram will be worth it before DDR5 anyway.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

roomforthetuna posted:

I'm leaning towards being cheap, because I've been developing on laptops for the last 10 years so y'know, as long as it's faster than a [checks current CPU] "Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7300HQ CPU @ 2.50GHz, 2501 Mhz, 4 Core(s), 4 Logical Processor(s)", I'm not going to be especially upset by it.

So new picks based on suggestions here, going Intel because of the iGPU as suggested by some, and because cpubenchmark.net puts this one at the top of the list for "sorted by value" (determined by rating-per-dollar). I think the suggestion "Intel 1100" was probably supposed to be "Intel 11400"?

I realize benchmarks are weird and not necessarily indicative of real performance, but given how much trouble I have making any sense of what it means to have more threads / cores / MHz, I figure benchmarks are probably a better approximation than me guessing, and going with the 11400 with iGPU more than doubles the benchmark score for somewhat less than doubling the price I was previously looking at, and means I can get a cheaper motherboard too so the total price is only slightly changed, for about a 2.5X benchmark score improvement. (Though the motherboard change also goes from ATX to micro ATX and loses the spare RAM slots - but 64GB seems like I'm unlikely to need to go up further so that's okay.)

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TP9X7X

(Would it be worth going another $40 up on the motherboard for more RAM slots and the addition of a USB 3.2 Gen2x2 header and 2.5Gbps ethernet? I don't have anything that uses those things right now, but future-proofing in the direction of peripherals seems more reasonable than other kinds of future-proofing.)

How have you identified that amount of RAM is the bottleneck on your current system. Based on your usage description my gut instinct would have been to concentrate on CPU performance and core count instead of RAM. I haven't done large scale compiling, but I wouldn't expect it to need that much RAM. Android emulators might change the situation, but do they need that much RAM and how many of them would you want to run simultaneously.

How I usually understand it is, that there is some amount of RAM you need. If you are under that amount you will have a bad time with all the swapping, but going above that will show only minimal benefits. It mainly increases the size of file cache, but with a NVMe drive you shoud have reduced need for that. With CPU performance and cores it's much more linear. There's certain amount of cores you can effectively use, but going under it won't reduce performance that badly and going above should show at least small improvement.


Your case don't seem to have support for USB 3.2 Gen2x2 header, so that won't provide you any benefit. Unless you install extra cable and route it to somewhere in the back or front of the case, but that may be a bit janky solution. Of course you could switch your case, there looks to be couple models for $70.

5436
Jul 11, 2003

UGGGGH MOOSE

Hey guys, my friend needs a rig for data science/ML. He wants an nvidia card for CUDA/Tensorflow stuff. His budget is $1,000, a little higher if there is value. Really looking for the performance/price sweet spot.

It's been about a year since I built mine, if anyone has a build they've done that would be really helpful!

Alucard
Mar 11, 2002


Pillbug

Dunno what kind of power he's hoping to get but here's a quick example of the poison in the rear end it is to get CUDA cores generally. I suspect even the data science GPUs are getting bought up by scalpers/miners as well...



Depending on what kind of GPU he wants, you're probably going to have to wait a while for anything close to MSRP or pay at least $500-800 for a midrange card.

I was eyeing a sub-$1000 build for gaming and I think I'll be lucky if I can stay under $1200 now.

Alucard fucked around with this message at 14:27 on May 2, 2021

franchise1
Jun 5, 2006


My CPU cooler fan is driving me mad. It's held onto the side of the heatsink with two metal clips with some rubber pads to separate the fan from the hs. Over time the pads slip away and the fan makes a loud rattle as it comes into contact with the metal. I keep fixing it but getting to the point where replacing the heatsink might be the better option.

Could anyone recommend to me a good cpu cooler that would work ok with this board = https://pcpartpicker.com/product/KgJkcf/asus-motherboard-z170progaming

I'm open to water cooling but haven't done much research, I assume the all in one kits don't need any extras, I don't really understand the radiators etc.

roomforthetuna
Mar 22, 2005

I don't need to know anything about virii! My CUSTOM PROGRAM keeps me protected! It's not like they'll try to come in through the Internet or something!


Saukkis posted:

How have you identified that amount of RAM is the bottleneck on your current system. Based on your usage description my gut instinct would have been to concentrate on CPU performance and core count instead of RAM. I haven't done large scale compiling, but I wouldn't expect it to need that much RAM. Android emulators might change the situation, but do they need that much RAM and how many of them would you want to run simultaneously.
Generally I need to support at least 3 android emulators because I'm making multiplayer stuff and want to be able to test the communication layer does the expected thing with >2 players. But it's probably only 2GB per emulator at the most. But then also probably 6-10GB for a ramdisk so I can put the virtual machine images on there for faster startup/teardown, and for the compiling of intermediate files (which I've found to be a huge performance improvement, because compiling typically involves two rounds of read-from-one-file-write-to-another-at-the-same-time - having the intermediate files on different storage makes that process much cache-ier, and having that different storage be a ramdisk is obviously faster still).

So it's not so much that I think RAM is a bottleneck, as that it can be applied to remove *other* bottlenecks. I'm not generally doing that large scale of compiling, so it's definitely not RAM being its own bottleneck, and even with that ~16GB of expected allocation I'm not sure 32GB total wouldn't be fine. Even with all that and also another 2GB assigned to the iGPU, 32GB would still leaves 14GB for the compiler and IDE and operating system and a bunch of chrome tabs, which is probably plenty. But it's closer than you'd have thought.

Comatoast
Aug 1, 2003


What about if you nix the ramdisk and the extra ram, and instead upgrade to a top of the line ssd with 2000-3000mb/s read and write. The SN550 you have chosen has 1/3 of that write throughput.

Saukkis
May 16, 2003

Unless I'm on the inside curve pointing straight at oncoming traffic the high beams stay on and I laugh at your puny protest flashes.
I am Most Important Man. Most Important Man in the World.

roomforthetuna posted:

Generally I need to support at least 3 android emulators because I'm making multiplayer stuff and want to be able to test the communication layer does the expected thing with >2 players. But it's probably only 2GB per emulator at the most. But then also probably 6-10GB for a ramdisk so I can put the virtual machine images on there for faster startup/teardown, and for the compiling of intermediate files (which I've found to be a huge performance improvement, because compiling typically involves two rounds of read-from-one-file-write-to-another-at-the-same-time - having the intermediate files on different storage makes that process much cache-ier, and having that different storage be a ramdisk is obviously faster still).

So it's not so much that I think RAM is a bottleneck, as that it can be applied to remove *other* bottlenecks. I'm not generally doing that large scale of compiling, so it's definitely not RAM being its own bottleneck, and even with that ~16GB of expected allocation I'm not sure 32GB total wouldn't be fine. Even with all that and also another 2GB assigned to the iGPU, 32GB would still leaves 14GB for the compiler and IDE and operating system and a bunch of chrome tabs, which is probably plenty. But it's closer than you'd have thought.

Yeah, it's a difficult question to figure out which would be more optimal for you, i5-11400 with 64GB or something like i7-10700 with 32GB. It's probably not trivial to extrapolate from your current less powerful computer. You might look at running your normal operations singly, monitor their resource usage and then total those that could be running simultaneously. But that's not straightforward either, when you are running the emulators heavily you are probably not running heavy compiles at the same time. But at least with RAM it's easy to upgrade if you get 4 slot motherboard and two sticks of RAM, just buy an extra pair. If you at some point notice you would like more CPU power it is a significantly bigger hurdle and afterwards you're left with an unneeded old CPU. There is an unfortunate extra expense with the motherboard, but at least it's easy to justify it for yourself with upgradeability

Another variable is the NVMe drive, maybe it would be fast enough you would do your compiles on the drive. RAM disk would certainly be faster, but maybe not enough that you would bother to copy files around.

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Helter Skelter
Feb 10, 2004

BEARD OF HAVOC



franchise1 posted:

My CPU cooler fan is driving me mad. It's held onto the side of the heatsink with two metal clips with some rubber pads to separate the fan from the hs. Over time the pads slip away and the fan makes a loud rattle as it comes into contact with the metal. I keep fixing it but getting to the point where replacing the heatsink might be the better option.

Could anyone recommend to me a good cpu cooler that would work ok with this board = https://pcpartpicker.com/product/KgJkcf/asus-motherboard-z170progaming

I'm open to water cooling but haven't done much research, I assume the all in one kits don't need any extras, I don't really understand the radiators etc.

You could try just replacing the fan with a new one and see if that helps.

Otherwise, Scythe Fuma 2. It's $60 and dead quiet.

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