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Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Thanks for putting in all the work for the new OP, ItBreathes! Consolidating down to general advice should help longevity, too. Looks good!

KingKapalone posted:

I have two pretty old 1TB HDDs I keep random stuff on in my PC and was thinking I could consolidate into a bigger, newer one. Any recommendations to keep an eye out for on Black Friday?

How much are you thinking about spending and how big do you want to get? For TB/$$ you can't beat an 8TB WD Easystore or Elements. The Easystore often goes down to $130-140 so I wouldn't be surprised if it's that low or lower for Black Friday, but it might not beat the Elements' current deal at Amazon $125. The 12TB version of the Easystore will be $180 for BF.

If you're just using them as storage, external is fine. You can also remove (shuck) the drive and use it internally (Easystore, Elements), though you may need to disable a pin before it will spin up in on a standard SATA power connector (I just bent the pin back using an x-acto knife, but tape is less destructive).

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Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Doh004 posted:

What do we think?

I know you said that you're not interested in cutting costs, but you could save nearly enough for another drive:

CPU Cooler: Stock is fine for your workload. There's also no reason to use an expensive low-profile cooler in a Node 304 since you have clearance for any air cooler. If you want an aftermarket cooler, a Gammaxx400 is much cheaper and would likely perform better.

Memory: 16GB is a massive overkill for NAS/plex (as is 3000MHz). 4GB would be fine, but dropping to 2x4 would save you $33.

SSD: 128/256GB would likely be sufficient for the SSD depending on what you're planning on using it for. The 240GB Corsair MP510 is $44 and the 512GB HP ex920 is $64.

That's up to $130. You could save a bit more switching to a Ryzen 1600 + ASRock B450, though you'll only have four sata ports instead of six. If you have a Microcenter nearby you can save an additional $30 with the motherboard/cpu combo (and maybe more if they agree to price-match the B450's newegg price).

I'm not a NAS/plex expert, but I suspect you could drop down to a cheaper Pentium/Athlon processor if you're using a gpu for transcoding. I've seen Xeon+ECC RAm configurations recommended before, but I'm not familiar enough with the options to make recommendations - hopefully someone can chime in.

Finally, be aware that many of the white-label drives support TLER (time-limited error recovery), but it needs to be re-enabled each boot.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Mustache Ride posted:

Building on the ITX post from last thread, what does everyone think of this?

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600X 3.8 GHz 6-Core Processor ($234.37 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus ROG Strix B450-I Gaming Mini ITX AM4 Motherboard ($134.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: HP EX920 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($114.97 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Zotac GeForce RTX 2070 SUPER 8 GB MINI Video Card ($489.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Fractal Design Define Nano S Mini ITX Desktop Case ($92.24 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: SeaSonic FOCUS SGX 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular SFX Power Supply ($119.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1326.54
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-12 10:11 EST-0500

Also, huge miss on the thread title to call it "He has Ryzen"

It looks good, just a few comments/suggestions:

CPU: The 3600x is tough to recommend for $40 over the 3600. The performance boost is tiny (~3%) and if you're gpu-limited they'll be no difference for gaming. The cooler upgrade is nice, but you could get a much nicer cooler for $40, which would help a 3600 overclock up to 3600x levels (but neither has enough overclocking headroom for it to be worthwhile).

Motherboard: ***No B450 itx motherboards are guaranteed to be compatible with 3rd-gen Ryzen out of the box***. If you're buying from a brick-and-mortar store you can check to see if it has a "Ryzen 3000 compatible" sticker (or see if the store offers free bios upgrades, like Microcenter), but otherwise you'll need a plan to upgrade the bios. That means either finding a loan cpu from a friend, finding a local shop that'll do it cheaply (many charge $40+), or getting a loaner cpu from AMD. If you're playing at 1440p+ or on a 60Hz monitor and not turning down settings to max fps, you're going to mostly be gpu-limited and dropping down to a 2600 would also be a valid option. You won't see much of a difference in performance right now and you can drop in a 3rd or 4th-gen Ryzen upgrade in a few years when it actually starts affecting performance. There's also X570 itx options, but the extra $80+ makes them tough to recommend.

Outside of compatibility issues, you might also want to consider the ASRock B450 itx. After rebate it saves $45 over the ASUS. The Asus has a bit better VRM, though both would be fine for a 3600 or 3600x (and the ASRock would still be fine up to a stock 3900x). It also has 2xM.2 slots vs one on the ASRock, but otherwise they're functionally identical (and the ASRock even has a USB-c port, which the Asus lacks).

Memory: 16GB is fine for gaming now but memory is cheap enough that 32GB could be a worthwhile choice on boards with only 2 ram slots, especially if you multitask a lot. This particular G.Skill kit isn't QVL for B450 motherboards, though, and I we've had some people have issues with faster non-QVL kits in the past, especially 32GB kits. I'd seriously consider getting a QVL kit, at which point you might want to consider dropping down the 3200 version since the real-world performance difference is negligible.

Video Card: Zotac support has a pretty poor reputation and the Nano S will fit bigger cards with better coolers. If you're sticking with a 2070 super, I'd get a Gigabyte windforce or EVGA black instead. You didn't mention your target resolution/refresh rate, but a 2070 Super is overkill for 1080p/60Hz gaming right now. If you're targeting 1440p+ and/or high refresh, you might also want to consider the 5700 XT (the Red Dragon and Pulse are good options). No raytracing, but $100 less for similar performance.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


ItBreathes posted:

Out of the box Zen 2 is only guaranteed to be supported by X570 boards, the yet-to-be-launched B550 boards, MSI MAX B450 boards, and any board with a “Ryzen 3000 ready” sticker on its box, if you live near a computer part retailer. Additionally, all the MSI B450 boards offer CPU-less bios flashing, allowing for them to be updated to support Zen2 with only a flash drive. Any B450/X470 boards manufactured after Zen2 launched should support them out of the box, but you can’t be sure what you’re getting when you order online. By now I have to imagine most of the old stock has been moved, but I can’t promise anything.

Unfortunately, not all MSi B450 boards have cpu-less flashing. The bottom-end boards and the itx boards don't have it. In fact, no B450/X470 itx boards have guaranteed 3rd-gen compatibility

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


KingKapalone posted:

Hmm I probably only need 2 TB, but I think 4 is a more common size? I have a whole NAS with about 12TB capacity already.

The 4TB or 2TB WD Blue are probably your best $$/TB consumer options without dipping into refurbished drives. External drives are similarly priced at those capacities.

If it's for game storage, you might want to consider a 2TB Adata su800 SSD (or Intel 660p if you have a free NVMe M.2 slot). Two 1TB su800s would be slightly cheaper, but more cables!

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Any B450/X470/X570 will work with a 2400g or 2200g. A 3400g would need a bios update on B450/X470, but X570 would still work out of the box.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Whitest Russian posted:

Basically gaming at 1440p, ideally over 120fps. I think I'm going to hold onto my 1080TI until the next generation Nvidia cards come out.

This is also the memory kit that I have. Is it worth updating for Ryzen?

There are a few games that are starting to have frame rate stability issues with 4c/4t processors, but most are still just fine and the 6600k is pretty much king of 4c/4t. In order to see any performance boost you'll need to cpu-limited, which for newer games at 1440p means you'll probably need to turn down some settings to boost frame rate, even with a 1080 Ti. Even then, single-core performance hasn't improved that much since the 6600k, so you'll only see a small performance boost for most games. Your ram should also be fine: 3200 is still the sweet spot for price/performance+compatibility and there's very little real-world performance difference between ram in the 3000-3600 range.

Unless you're running into frame pacing issues in a particular game and you know that 4c/4t is the cause, I wouldn't bother upgrading now.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Enos Cabell posted:

Thanks, read too many contradictory comments in user reviews and got myself all confused.

Putting together a small PC for my dad, haven't built an AMD machine since my old Opteron 165 / NForce2 PC years ago.



Looks pretty good! I'd get an Inland Premium or Adata su800 over the WD Blue, though. They're both a step up in performance and a step down in cost!

If you'd like a cheaper option and you're sure he won't want a discrete gpu at some point, the $150 ASRock Deskmini A300 is tiny and includes a motherboard and 300W psu. It uses 260-pin laptop memory, though, so a comparable build would look something like:

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2400G 3.6 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($119.00 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($85.98 @ Amazon)
Storage: Inland Premium 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Case/Motherboard/CPU: ASRock Deskmini A300 ($149.99 @ Amazon or @ Newegg)
Total: $459.96

The 2400G's stock cooler will fit if you remove the fan shroud!

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Butt Ghost posted:

I really, really need to get a new pc.

I want a build that can emulate ps3 titles, is capable of ray tracing and upscales to 4K. That resolutions seems to be the direction games will be going once next gen hits.

Someone sent me this, and the price is fine. I can get a new monitor later if I need to. I just wanna know if this looks solid and if anything should be changed.

https://pcpartpicker.com/list/TztDx6

As far as Iím aware the rtx line is the only one capable of ray tracing. However Ryzen cpus seem to be capable of ps3 emulation for cheaper. But Iím not sure how much of a performance hit Iíll take for that or how future proof it is. Iíll pay more if it means my rig is significantly more sustainable.

orange juche posted:

If you need something capable of PS3 emulation, go buy a PS3. They're like $50-60 at Gamestop or whatever. Emulation of newer consoles (anything newer than PS2 or OG XBOX, Dolphin is a weird case because Gamecube and Wii were not an especially high-powered system) is always going to be problematic/hacky, and the amount of hardware and asspain required to make it work is not worth the cash outlay.

If you're doing 4K gaming at high/ultra quality, a 9900K is not going to give you an appreciable edge over a 3900X build. What is going to be key is the 2080TI. Gimme a bit to look at it, and I'll see if I can't save you a bit of money. I'll repost in about an hour or 2.

Just to add on here: if you're gaming on a 60Hz monitor there's not going to be an appreciable difference between a 9900k, a 3900x, a 3700x, a 3600, or even a 2600, regardless of resolution. A 2600 is more than capable of driving any current game at >60fps and when it starts affecting performance you can drop in a 4700x or something. I'd probably still go with at least a 3600 on a larger budget, but there's no significant gaming difference between a 3600, 3700x, and 3900x right now.

E: If you haven't tried a 1440p/144Hz IPS *sync monitor, I'd check one out at your local Best Buy/Frys/Microcenter. 1440p is much easier to target and I personally prefer running games at 90-120Hz over the extra resolution.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 05:04 on Nov 13, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Do you need the ODD bay and giant HDD stack? Because the Fractal Design R6/Meshify S2 (which come in a variety of flavors) or the Cooler Master H500P Mesh are fantastic cases with excellent airflow and plenty of room, and putting them up on a small platform to would help reduce dust a bit, too!

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


That's the one, whoops! If you definitely want to stick to taller cases, you might also like the Phanteks Enthoo Pro, Thermaltake Core X71, or Be Quiet! Dark Base 900 (you'd want to remove the door on that one).

Stickman fucked around with this message at 16:15 on Nov 13, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


You can't really go wrong per se, but I'd probably avoid Zotac since their support has a terrible reputation and single-fan cards since they'll be hotter and louder. The MSi Ventus doesn't have a zero-rpm mode to stop the fans at idle, if you care about that feature. The EVGA SC Ultra has a weird giant stack of thermal transfer pads on the vram (but it still seems to perform okay) and the Gigabyte has plastic backplate (but it's thermals are still fine). The MSi Gaming X and the triple-fan Gigabyte are good, but pricier.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


AAAAA! Real Muenster posted:

That is because I did some looking around and that CPU is on sale on Newegg and also Real Good so I upped it from a non-hyper threaded i7.
I have two Dell Ultrasharp 24 inch Infinity Edge Monitor - U2417H, Full HD 1920 X 1080 at 60 Hz. Prior feedback told me that these are not the best monitors for gaming, but I just got them recently and think they're great. I dont need ultramax settings on all my games, I care more about them running smoothly and being able to alt-tab out and not have the computer turn into a paper weight. I also would like the ability to run a game on one screen and occasionally stream a football game or something on the other, but if this is asking a lot of any computer and I'm just an idiot then I can stop trying to do both at the same time.

Powerful cpus are really only necessary for pushing very high frame rates in demanding games. Pretty much every modern 6-core+ processor will run any current game at 60+ fps, so you can save a lot of money without seeing any performance difference:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600 3.4 GHz 6-Core Processor ($117.68 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B450 Pro4 ATX AM4 Motherboard ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: G.Skill Aegis 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 1660 Super 6 GB SC ULTRA GAMING Video Card ($233.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RM (2019) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($94.98 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 10 Pro OEM 64-bit ($25.00)
Total: $621.62


A 2600 is fine for gaming right now, and the Pro4 is fine for upgrading to a 3600 or 3700x (or 4th-gen Ryzen equivalent) down the road. A Ryzen 3600 is a ~15% cpu performance boost, but gaming performance will be equivalent right now. If you'd like to just start with the 3600, though, get the B450 Tomhawk MAX motherboard for out-of-the-box compatibility.

The 3200 MHz RAM kit is QVL for either motherboard so it has guaranteed XMP compatibility (to run at the listed speed). At 60Hz, your also not going to see a difference between 3200 and 3600 ram.

You can get a copy of Windows 7 Pro on SAMart for $25 and use that to activate Windows 10 Pro. If you have any Windows 7/8/10 keys from previous computers that you aren't using anymore, you could also just reuse one of those keys!

E: My go-to non-flashy mid-tower case is the Fractal Design Meshify C (which also comes in windowed variants).

EE: Do you need a SSD?

Stickman fucked around with this message at 20:19 on Nov 13, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Pizdec posted:

Is this the right place for external HDD recommendations? I'm thinking of buying a non-SSD one in the 1-2 TB range that will last me a good couple of years. Not looking for speed, just reliability. Should I just go with WD ELEMENTS as previously suggested, or are there more reliable options?

Also, what's the story with this?

When crypto took off in 2017, miners started buying up gpus and prices skyrocketed by ~2-3x



Even after the crash and mining moving to ASICs it took until 2019 for prices to fall back below 2017 levels (for 2-year old cards), and NVidia fought like hell to keep prices as high as they could with Turing's pricing structure. It was pretty annoying for people like me who needed to build in the middle of the bubble, though I got lucky and managed to trade up a few times on the falling edge.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


If you end up going for 2TB, the Rocket is great but the MyDigitalSSD BPX Pro is $20 less and literally the same drive (as in the Rocket is a rebranded BPX Pro)!

You could also consider ditching your spinning rust drive and getting a 2TB Intel 660p for your second M.2 slot.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


BIG HEADLINE posted:

Phison E12 drives are Phison E12 drives are Phison E12 drives, but MyDigitalSSD hasn't updated their website even news-wise in months. They also haven't put out a F/W update in well over a year.

I can't in good conscience recommend a company that can't even put up a "hey, we're still around and functioning" message on their website.

And of course, just as I look, they've at least tweeted they have new products, but still no new support info. The Inland drives are evidently coming with ECFM F/W version 22.4 out of the blister pack. No one's uploaded a F/W update tool yet or ascertained if it'll be another destructive update.

Thanks! It sounds like the firmware is probably cross-compatible between MDSSD and Corsair, but that's an unsupported pain in the rear end :/



Thanks for writing all this great stuff out! At the beginning where you talk about asking the thread, I'd mention that prices change and there are a lot of interchangeable parts, so there's a good chance that asking will shave a bit of the cost the build. I'd also mention the motherboard/cpu combo deals at Microcenter for US folks.

In the budget builds, the Corsair CX (2017) basically the same price as the VS for a newer, higher-quality design.

For the ultra-budget build, the 3400g and 2400g have close to identical gaming performance and dropping down lets you move to a cheaper (but still upgrade-capablee) motherboard. I also switched to the cheaper Masterbox Q300L, which really needs the extra intake fan but still comes out cheaper and more compact. That'll either save $70 or give headroom for upgrade to a 1TB drive. It might also be worth mentioning that swapping out to Ryzen 1600 + 1650/570 is just ~$100 more and would vastly improve performance in more demanding games, but that might be better relegated to thread advice.

MSi's Armor cooling was still terrible when the 580 was released, so I'd avoid that particular model. Unfortunately, 580 prices aren't what they once were and the cheapest model I'd recommend is only $20 away from a decent 1660 (the Ventus doesn't have fan-stop, but it's cooling is fine).

E: For the "Flex" build, I'd probably just go ahead and throw in a Meshify C. It's a decent build-quality upgrade over the P400 for only $20. I'd also just stick to 3200MHz RAM - G.Skill lists that 3600 kit as only qvl for a few top-end x570 boards, so it could potentially have XMP issues.

I'd also probably mention that the 2080 Super is a "splurge" upgrade - it's a pretty marginal ~15% performance boost for $300 over the XT (or $200 over the 2070 Super).

EE: Apparently the su750 is dramless so I'd probably just recommend spending the extra $5 for an su800 to avoid the extra wear-and-tear.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 07:46 on Nov 14, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Here To Help posted:

Hey folks,

I've been putting together a part list for a new PC build, including eventually a monitor that should perform solidly at 1440p. I'm planning to start picking up the parts around the black friday sales when I can hopefully chop a little bit off the total price tag. I'm posting this as a sanity check - am I making a clearly inferior pick on a certain part, are there good alternatives to consider, etc.

What country are you in? USA
What are you using the system for? Gaming
What's your budget? Flexible but keeping it around ~1500 before monitor as a goal.
If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? Currently 1080p, but expecting to upgrade to a 1440p monitor

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($309.99 @ B&H)
CPU Cooler: Scythe Mugen 5 Rev. B 51.17 CFM CPU Cooler ($48.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte X570 AORUS ELITE WIFI ATX AM4 Motherboard ($209.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport LT 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($74.29 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Gigabyte Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB GAMING OC Video Card ($403.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT H510 ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.98 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA P2 650 W 80+ Platinum Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($133.08 @ Amazon)
Monitor: LG 32GK650F-B 32.0" 2560x1440 144 Hz Monitor ($346.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $1707.28
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-14 01:44 EST-0500

When it comes to the Motherboard I'm also looking at the x570 tuf with wifi, along with the b450 tomahawk options that seem popular. I'll make a decision based on pricing vs features closer to black friday. I may swap the GPU to a sapphire pulse again depending on prices. Storage is mostly a placeholder but I'll be looking in the 1tb (and roughly $100) range when the time comes. I want a platinum rated modular PSU but again, not wedded to a brand. Finally for the case I'm also considering the fractal meshify C.

Anyways, taking this list as a sort of outline for a PC, is there anything that just doesn't make sense? Should I consider going to 32gb ram? Any options I've overlooked or brand recommendations for specific parts? Thanks.

This looks good and it sounds like you have a handle on the options. For gaming right now a 3700x will perform similarly to a 3600, but it's not too expensive of an upgrade.

The Tuf and Elite are pretty similar - the main difference is that the Tuf has a USB-c port on the back but no front-panel usb-c header while the Elite has a front-panel header but none on the back. Since the H510 has a front-panel usb-c port, you might prefer the Elite.

For your SSD, look for deals on the HP ex920, Inland Premium, Sabrent Rocket, Corsair MP510, or Silicon Power A80. The WD Blue is a SATA drive rather than proper NVMe, but there's not really a noticeable difference in gaming performance. The Crucial MX500, Samsung 860 Evo (not QVO), and Adata su800 are all good SATA drives that are worthwhile if they offer a bit of savings over the NVMe options.

The Mugen 5 is great, but isn't strictly necessary. The stock cooler on 3700x is sufficient for cooling, though it's a bit too loud for some people.

I'd consider leaving the H510 in it's stock negative-pressure configuration (2x exhaust, no intake). Gamersnexus found that it reduces gpu temperatures at the cost of slightly increased CPU temperatures, and gpu temps are what's most important for gaming.

E: You're selected monitor is a VA panel, which tend to have a noticeable amount of ghosting due to their slow pixel response time. There's several good 1440p/144Hz IPS options available right now in the same price range - I'd ask for recommendations over in the monitor thread!

Stickman fucked around with this message at 07:42 on Nov 14, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Yeah, $100 for a newish case, PSU, and a 970 is a good deal for her even if she ends up replacing the drives/cpu/mobo/ram (which she could do for $250-$350). You could probably get a little more on Craigslist or parting it out, but thatís a good friend price.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Agrajag posted:

I'm not really going to be buying new parts within the next few months but looking at 2020 onward will my pc still hold up for gaming? Im thinking games like Cyberpunk 2077, Death Stranding, and I suppose RDR 2 at 1440p 144hz? Currently I only play Destiny 2. The reason I'm asking this is because I recently picked up the 1440p monitor and I'm noticing that I'm not even pushing max refresh rate for the monitor in Destiny 2. I think I'm averaging anywhere from 80-110's.

My system is:

Intel i5 7600k (oc'ed to 4ghz iirc)
16gb ram
EVGA GTX 1070
(I'm already using NVME for the OS and another SSD specifically for games. Might look into Samsung's QVO for mass storage)

You definitely won't push max refresh rates in AAA games, but even a 2080 Ti / 9900k won't for most of them. Destiny 2 in particular has a hard cap around 90-120 in firefights that no hardware can push past. On the plus side, *sync makes frame rates <144 nice and smooth!

Your 7600k will likely have a few issues with RDR2, but many modern cpus do, too - a 9700k is actually the worst for the launch build! Fortunately, the stuttering can be fixed with a cpu-limiter until Rockstar gets around to fixing performance.

It's impossible to say whether unrealeased games will have frame pacing issues with a 4c/4t processor, but they're also still a ways off.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


If youíre building a new computer to replace the living room pc, why not just replace the desktop with your living room pc instead of mixing the components?

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Incessant Excess posted:

I was kinda visualizing the MB+RAM+CPU as a single part that I wouldn't have to do much more with than to plug in and hook up, so I wouldn't need to do the time-intensive cable routing again. I can see tho that I'm not really gaining all that much by doing that, basically just the larger case, PSU and the hard drives inside it (can't put em in the mini itx case), but I guess that's something I can give up if I manage to get some money back selling the PC.

Using the extra space for hard drives is a decent reason to move to the larger case, and it should be easy enough. Alternatively, just get large external drive like a WD Elements and use that!

If that XFX psu is old and out of warranty, I'd consider replacing it before it dies and potentially takes other components with it. A Corsair CX 550w would be sufficient and save $20-25 over good gold models (though the gold has a 10-year warranty instead of 5 so would safely carry over to new machines longer). You'd need to do cable routing again, though!

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Check your backplate and make sure it looks like this. If it's one of the four screws keeping the heatsink tight against the gpu having it lose could potentially be a problem.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Looks good, just some small tweaks.

The stock cooler is sufficient for cooling, but some goons have said it's too loud for their taste. In a Pure Base 600 it would probably be fine unless you're very sensitive to sound. The Mugen is a very nice cooler, but an Arctic Freezer 34 would be quieter and cooler than stock, and save you $20. On the other hand, the Mugen would better transfer to more power-hungry cpus in the future.

If you don't care about the usb-c port, the ASRock Phantom Gaming 4 is the same price (after rebate) and gets you a small VRM boost, upgraded audio, two M.2 slots, a key E slot for a mini wifi/bluetooth card, and PCIe 4.0 (not super important).

At current prices, I'd get the Inland Premium over the Rocket. They're effectively the same drive.

You could also save $20 and with a Corsair RM instead of the Seasonic.

I don't know about the 3600 vs 3700x for WoW specifically. Most games don't scale to that high of core count, but maybe in WoW? There don't seem to many post-multithread-patch benchmarks.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


BraveUlysses posted:

whats a good atx mid-tower case in the $50-75 range? prefer one with usb-c

usb-c still isn't very common on mid-range cases, and the NZXT H510 is really the only option in that price range. The Inwin 303c is also pretty good if you decide to stretch your budget.

Without usb-c there's several other decent cases like the Antec P8, Phanteks Eclipse 300/350x/400, one of the tempered glass Masterboxes, or Inwin 101c. Honestly, I'd probably just stretch the extra $10-15 for a Meshify C, though.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

The Fractal Design Define C is a little closer to $90 but it's well-made and has USB-C.

I though it was just the updated R6 and S2s that had usb-c so far?

Stickman fucked around with this message at 23:07 on Nov 15, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


BIG HEADLINE posted:

Any Fractal case with "C" in the name seems to have USB-C. The Vector, Define, and Meshify all have options with USB-C. No Node or Focus cases do, though...yet.

The specs still only list 2x3.0 (same with the Meshify C), and Fractal's picture of the i/o doesn't show any usb-c ports:



E: Not the best naming scheme, though

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


I looked into that one a while back, and sadly it's only compatible with the Define R6, which is too bad because I'm sure people would pay to add usb-c to a Meshify C or Define C

E: I could have sworn I found some sort of usb-c gen 2 extension hub that could just be stuck on to the top or side of the case, but it seems to be eluding me now.

EE: Maybe I'm just thinking of this replacement power button.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 23:32 on Nov 15, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Vasler posted:

In the meantime, I was thinking about buying a new video card (have a 970 right now, thinking about a 2070).

What's your monitor's resolution/refresh rate? If you have a 1080p/60Hz monitor the 2070 Super is an overkill right now (and the 2060 Super is just mostly an overkill). If you have a 1440p monitor, the 2070 Super is a decent choice, though a 5700 XT is $100 less and has similar performance minus the raytracing.

Here's some 5700 XT/2060 Super/2070 Super benchmarks to give you an idea of the maximum performance you might expect at high/ultra settings, but keep in mind that you can get an additional 30-60% performance in most games by turning down settings. Your processor might hold you back from achieving higher frame rates in some games, but you should still be okay up to 50-60 in pretty much anything and higher most of the time.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Nov 16, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


orange juche posted:

Supposedly both the new Microsoft console as well as the PS5 have ray tracing built in. How good that ray tracing is, is up in the air. As above, ray tracing is expensive both in silicon and computational load, so the ray tracing that the consoles use will probably not be anything on the level of what PCs can do.

Both consoles are also powered by AMD gpus, so at the very least it'll probably be somewhat different to work with than NVidia's RTX. Hopefully it'll be close enough that porting will be easy!

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


$220 + the $130-160 you could get for the 6600+motherboard on eBay would cover a 3600+motherboard and potentially have a bit left over for fancier ram.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Just say "there are B450 boards that'll be decent for a 2700x, but the Aorus M would be pretty marginal". There's zero reason to avoid recommending specific B450 boards on the off chance somebody might ignore your advice and get a different B450 board.

The real issue with the 2700x for a gaming machine is that it's going to have basically identical performance to the 2600 right now. It's easier to overclock and there's actually overclocking overhead (unlike 3rd-gen Ryzen), but overclocking on a low-end VRM like the Aorus M is pretty marginal - overclocking requires more power than running a 3900x stock! I'd say just get the 2600 if you're on a 60Hz monitor and plan on staying on one for a while and upgrade to a 3rd/4th gen cpu when you need to, or go all the way up to a 3600 if you're on a high-refresh-rate monitor. I'd also spend the extra $10 for a mATX Pro4 over the Aorus M - it has a usb-c port, a second (SATA-only) M.2 slot, and the small vrm boost positions it a bit better for running more powerful cpus down the road.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 18:06 on Nov 18, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Klaaz posted:

Dammit.

So I just received a 1660 Super which needs to be connected to an 8 pin connector. My PSU has only 6, which was sufficient for my old 1050 GPU.

I guess using some kind of 6 to 8 adapter is pretty dumb considering this 1660 runs on 125 watt and my only option is replacing my PSU?

A 6 -> 8 pin adapter will work, but if your psu is old and/or out of warranty you should seriously consider replacing it anyway. What model is it?

E: Looking at reviews, you should have a 6+2 PCIe connector on one of your cables!

Zikan posted:

My PC is coming up on 5 years old, so I'm wondering what's the best bang for my buck upgrades to get in the short-medium term. I've overclocked the GPU but not the CPU.

What country are you in? USA
What are you using the system for? Gaming
What's your budget? $500-$1k
If you’re doing professional work, what software do you need to use? None
If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? 1900x1200
How fancy do you want your graphics, from “it runs” to “Ultra preset as fast as possible”? As pretty as I can make it in my budget

PCPartPicker Part List

Obvious point of upgrade is the graphics card as the 970 is starting to go lower then I like on settings with the newest games. I used to be an Nvidia only person but I see ATI has actually gotten competitive since I built this PC, so I'm willing to make the switch if it saves me money.
Monitor I'm probably not upgrading at the moment until the more pressing needs are addressed. I'd only want 144 hz if I was upgrading, since it's primary use is for gaming, not doing anything else with it really.

I'm willing to replace the mobo and CPU if it's time for them to go. Mostly I want to get a shopping list ready for all of the holiday sales.

For gaming right now, a 4790k should still be fine @60Hz outside of small frame pacing issues in one or two of the most demanding games. If you don't want to spend more now you could get by with just a gpu upgrade, and a 1660 Ti/2060/5700 would max most games at high/ultra settings. If you really have the itch to upgrade, start with deciding the resolution/refresh rate of the monitor since that will impact your gpu choice (and cpu, to a lesser degree).

Stickman fucked around with this message at 21:33 on Nov 18, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Dominoes posted:

Hey dudes. Is there a trick to mounting M2 HDs properly? I'm using an aurous x570 board. The drive works fine; I put it in the slot, but am not sure how to secure the non-interface end. My case had a heatsink on it that was too long and low for the drive, so removed it. It has a screw that mounts onto a riser. I figure I need to move the riser inwards (There are closer riser holes, that don't appear to accept screws), but it won't budge. Can't find instructions in the manual. Any ideas?


You should be able to unscrew the standoff and move it to the "80" hole. Usually it'll have Phillips or standard cuts to make unscrewing easier, but might be pretty tight out of the factory. I've never seen a M.2 standoff that didn't screw directly into the motherboard, either, so you should have to worry about bolts on the back or anything. If it's really stuck on the there you could order a standoff online, or maybe find one at a local repair shop.

E: actually, it looks like you might not have the standoff installed yet. Check the box for a bag with standoffs and screws!

Stickman fucked around with this message at 07:37 on Nov 19, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Dominoes posted:

Appreciate it. It has knurls that imply it could be hand-moved, so you're probably right that it's just tight. I twisted it pretty hard with pliers while assembling, but it didn't budge. Didn't check for a nut on the back, but probably should have to at least eliminate that. Might try removing the video card and trying better pliers.... Actually, I like your idea about adding a riser. Turns out I had one lying around...

Looking at Gigabyte's pictures and the perspective on yours, you might just be missing the standoff altogether - check the box to see if there's a bag you missed!

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Incessant Excess posted:

I'm debating getting a case that uses a riser card, which would limit me to PCIe 3.0, because of this I'm thinking of getting a B450 rather than a X570 board. I'm wondering if anyone can give me an idea of the performance difference between these two possible configurations, if there indeed is any (CPU would be a 3700x in both cases):

ASUS ROG Strix X570-I
G.Skill Trident Z Neo DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3600, CL16-19-19-39

MSI B450I Gaming Plus AC
Corsair Vengeance LPX DIMM Kit 16GB, DDR4-3200, CL16-18-18-36

The reason I selected different RAM kits is that the B450i doesn't support the Trident Z Neo kit according to it's QVL.

Probably not very much. The B450I isn't guaranteed to come pre-flashed to support 3rd-gen Ryzen, though and it doesn't support cpu-less bios flashback, so you'd need to buy from a brick-and-mortar store where you can check for a compatibility sticker (or have it flashed for free), or have a plan to update the bios. The X570 has several other nice upgrades, like better audio, 3.1 gen 2 usb ports (and more usb in general), 2x M.2 slots, Intel LAN, bluetooth 5.0, and a nicer uefi (non-"MAX" MSi B450/X570 boards are limited to a keyboard-only interface for gen 3 Ryzen because of ballooning bios sizes).

E: Techspot has a pretty good 3rd-gen ram scaling benchmark.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 08:22 on Nov 19, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Jinnigan posted:

Is there a good article to read somewhere on the relative differences between the 2060S, the 2070, and the RX5700?

Babeltech has some good benchmark comparisons for the 5700 v 2060 v 2060s and 5700 XT v 2070 v 2070 Super. Keep in mind that these are mostly ultra/very high benchmarks, so you could boost performance a decent amount by turning down settings.

BIG HEADLINE posted:

Checked the max TDP of the 5700 on a datasheet and saw it's 180W. If it doesn't hit that, okay, but that's what I saw.

I know the XT's TDP is over 200W so it seemed plausible.

The 5700 has a tdp of 180W but the 2060 Super is 160W and the 2070 is 175W. I'm not seeing where you're getting that the 5700 draws an extra 60W of power. They're all pretty close.

E: Anandtech and Guru3d both measured the 5700 as neck-in-neck with the 2060 super for total system consumption and the 5700 XT as neck-in-neck with the 2070 Super.

EE: I think I see it - the 5700 XT is +65W TDP over the 2060 Super (and the 2070 Super is + 55W). The non-XT is pretty close to equivalent. Performance/W is a slight edge to NVidia, but it's pretty darn close.

Stickman fucked around with this message at 02:09 on Nov 20, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


Target refresh rate matters more than resolution because the faster you're pumping out frames the more work the cpu has to do to keep up. If your gaming on a 60Hz monitor, a 2600 would be fine and will likely continue to be for a while yet. A 3600 (non-X) is a decent performance upgrade for $80, but at 60 fps you won't see any difference right now.

If you have a high-refresh rate monitor AND a graphics card that can push 100+ fps in demanding games at the settings you want, then a faster cpu can give you better performance in games that would otherwise be cpu-limited and it makes sense to get a 3600 at minimum. The 3600x really isn't worth it, though - it's only going to be an ~1-2% boost for $40 (and only in games where you're already cpu-limited).

Intel cpus are fine for performance, but they're not a great value right now. 6-core/6-thread processors like the 9400f work fine for now but we're already seeing 4-core/4-thread processors causing frame pacing issues with newer AAA games and 4/8 and 6/6 are going to start feeling dated next. Intel's 6/12 or better processors are all expensive compared to their AMD counterparts and have less compelling future drop-in upgrade options.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


On-board wifi limits options quite a bit, but the MSi B450 Pro Carbon AC at $130 is a good deal if you don't mind the limited keyboard-only bios and the fact that you might have to update the bios using the flashback button before install the 3600.

The Asus TUF X570-Plus (Wifi) at $180 is the best X570 options, and gets you a small VRM upgrade over the Pro Carbon (though both are fine for a 3600), plus 2 full-speed NVMe-compatible M.2 slots (the second slot on the Pro Carbon is PCIe 2.0 x4), PCIe 4.0 (not super important), and some extra usb ports.

The ASRock X570 Phantom Gaming 4 Wifi is in between ($160), but it's VRM is step down from the Pro Carbon (still fine for a 3600, though), it doesn't have usb 3.0 gen 2 ports (the 10Gb/s ones), and ASrock's memory support is spottier than Asus or Msi.

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


If you case has sufficient clearance, you can just move the fan up a bit and should be fine with any ram! If it doesn't, you could still remove the front fan without much of an impact on performance (that's why the d15s only comes with a single fan - well, that and it increases their margin).

Stickman fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Nov 21, 2019

Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


You also have to be a bit careful with the D14 because it can overlap the PCIe x16 slot on some motherboards. It looks like the Taichi is fine, but the Unify hasn't been tested. The Godlike is the only MSi X570 that has issues, though, and the first PCIe slot is much closer to the cpu than the Unify so I suspect the Unify would be fine. If you switch to a different motherboard, just be sure to check it's compatibility.

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Stickman
Feb 1, 2004

much, much larger than your hat, but not as large as the moon
-DNA


If youíre willing to post impressions, Iíd be curious if you see any performance difference in current titles. Most of VR benchmarks Iíve see indicate that a 2600x should be fine and thereís not much advantage (currently) to more powerful processors. Maybe thatís not true of those specific titles, though?

If you like your current machine, you could sell the 8700k, pick up a 3600, and still have $100 left over!

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