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MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Whitest Russian posted:

I'm mostly trying to decide if I want to get some decent Ryzen sale during Black Friday/Cyber Monday or if I should wait for Zen 3 to be released in early 2020 supposedly.

What exactly is your build targetting? It is hard to give generalized advice. I mean if you want to spend money then sure, now is as good a time as any but your requirements are a bit vague.

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MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Whitest Russian posted:

I am getting some framerate issues with Doom. I'm guessing that The Master Chief Collection is also going to struggle a bit if it ever comes out.

That doesn't quite make sense. We are talking 2016 Doom? The 6600k should crush that game to the tune of 100fps. What kind of stuff are you running in the background? Do you have a lot of bloatware?

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Whitest Russian posted:

It's not really a FPS problem but a frametime problem with a 6600k. It keeps jumping between ~5 and ~20 milliseconds between frames which is annoying.

Did you try orange juche suggestion? What kind of bloatware do you have? Just 5 min of googling suggests that you have a bloatware issue.

I mean sure, if you want to get 6 or 8 core SMT CPU just so you can have bloatware on it and run DOOM at the same time you can upgrade but it feels like you have a 0 dollar option available to you.



Nude Hoxha Cameo posted:

First and foremost, thanks for keeping the thread going - itís an amazingly valuable resource!

But also a question: Are you planning on pulling over the quick picks? Iíve always found that useful as a starting point, and my guess is that itís been helpful over the years to others as well.

ItBreathes posted:

If anyone cares to make and keep current such a list I'm happy to link in the OP / let them poach the rest of it for a new thread, though I'm going to be making some additions / revisions later this week.

It is so hard to make a good "generalized" list. Products to recommend scale with the resolution of the monitor, expected frame rate, the type of games (AAA vs Fortnite), longevity of components, current budget, upcoming budget for the next set of upgrades and said time table for upcoming upgrades.

It is far more important for people to be as informative as possible when asking questions so we can tailor advice to the individual. Include all of the things mentioned in the OP. It will save you a lot of headaches.

That said I'll piece together something in the next little bit with the most scalable components like CPU, RAM, and GPU since those are the ones that affect performance the most.

Butt Ghost posted:

So hereís the build Iím aiming for. Itís modified based on what orange juche sent me earlier. I decided to put in the Ryzen 3700X because its multi-threading gives it a leg up when it comes to emulating more strenuous titles.

I was wanting to know if I should go with 32 gigs of ram instead of 16, and if I should go with the fractal Meshify. I like the fractal define s2, but Iím not sure if itís worth the $200+.

That is a beast of a PC. Definitely well beyond the price to performance sweet spot, especially the GPU which is an insane buy for 1440p, but if that's what you want then go for it.

As for the case, the Meshify C is a longtime goon stalwart. There are other cases like it in that price range that do just as good a job. Buy a more expensive case if there are specific front panel IO options you want/need or you need the additional space for SSDs/Hard drives that the small-sized mid towers can't give you. Is there a specific "want" on the case? Superior noise cancellation or RGB?

MikeC fucked around with this message at 03:00 on Nov 14, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR




I'll get this out of the way first - If you NEED Raytracing come back in Mid-September when RTX 3XXX or AMD 6XXX series cards come out. Don't bother with anything on the market right now. You will be flushing money down the toilet.


Hi friends, please vet this post so it can be potentially linked as a tiered gaming PC build guide. I'll commit to updating this post at least once every two months till or sooner (LOL) when new products justify it. Since it will be linked and not in the OP itself, should it ever fall into obsolescence and/or someone else takes up the mantle, we can easily simply delete the OP link or have it point to another updated one.

Here are 4 builds I put together for each logical tier of gaming PC I could think of. Please read the commentary after each list as it will probably answer many questions in advance


N.B

- COVID is inflating some prices and Intel 10th Gen as well as AMD's Zen 2 speed refreshes have not driven prices down since they kind of suck in the value realm. Also, useable ray tracing tech is coming to new GPUs as early as September. Now is not the best time to buy but the guide is here if you do need to buy.

- This post not a substitute for asking in the thread for specific advice or for crosschecking in case the post falls out of date before I can update the post. It is designed to offer a general framework to see how far your money can go. Always post in the thread with the required answers to the questions in the OP to obtain optimal advice tailored to you! Click on the build link and you can edit any of the saved part lists and then repost in your question.

- RAM, Motherboard, GPU make/model (with the same chip), and Case are all interchangeable and not model specific. Prices and local availability fluctuate and the cheapest item is not necessarily the one on that part list. Windows 10 is not included in the build nor is a monitor included. This is the base cost for the box only and usually with a bang for buck frame of reference in mind. Windows 10 can be had for 19 dollars on SA Mart and monitor inquiries should be directed to the SH/SC Monitor thread.

- Check carefully to see if you need a feature that isn't on the motherboard used in this guide! If you need something, and it is not on it, we can find you another motherboard that does!

- Note on RAM: AMD motherboards can be picky about the RAM kits they take and the one listed is just a placeholder. Each motherboard typically has a Qualified Vendor List where they have actually tested RAM kits out to make sure they work. I highly recommend you find a RAM kit that is on your motherboard's QVL. Odds of bad things happening with non-QVL ram is low but if it doesn't work, troubleshooting or manual RAM tuning can be a nightmare.

- Note on CPU/MOBO compatibility: AMD has been generous by continuing to use the same socket for multiple generations and offering upgrade paths for users. However given the large number of CPUs that a motherboard must support, almost no motherboard covers all CPUs that fit the socket. Check for compatibility before buying.

- Every system here is AMD based. That's because they still offer the best bang for the buck. Intel 10th gen offerings mean that it is no longer embarrassing to buy an Intel-based system anymore but I will not list any parts for them here. If you want Team Blue, ask in the thread for a CPU/Mobo combo that fits in your tier.

Revision 2.0 - July 14, 2020

I want my kid to play Minecraft, Fortnite and/or the current E-Sport game de jour on a PC

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3400G 3.7 GHz Quad-Core Processor ($149.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M/AC Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($101.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA Ultimate SU800 512 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($64.97 @ Amazon)
Case: Cooler Master MasterBox Q300L MicroATX Mini Tower Case ($50.99 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Corsair CX (2017) 450 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($69.93 @ Newegg)
Case Fan: ARCTIC Arctic F14 PWM 77.3 CFM 140 mm Fan ($10.99 @ Amazon)
Total: $513.84
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-14 18:48 EDT-0400

This build is unchanged from 2019 although COVID prices have made it more expensive. For just around 500 USD, one can assemble a PC capable of playing the latest mass consumer, kid-friendly titles, with medium or low settings on a 1080p (also known as Full HD/FHD) monitor. An AMD CPU with integrated graphics can play these titles with a minimum of 45-60 frames per second as most of these titles are designed with low hardware requirements to capture the biggest audience possible. Modern "retro" gaming like Minecraft and other pixel style games should also be very playable. The primary advantage of this build is to save you the cost of buying a separate graphics card. It is important to note that these games are not the same as what is generally known as AAA games such as the latest Ubisoft open-world game (think Assassin's Creed or Ghost Recon). While it is possible to run these games at low graphics settings and still be enjoyable, "acceptable" performance in the FPS department is not guaranteed. It is important to note that this build is not necessarily recommended as even an increase in budget to around 700 dollars can buy substantial performance increases and unlock the door to a much better gaming experience. The longevity of the CPU is also questionable with respect to how long it can support gaming beyond these types of kid-friendly games. For those with absolutely no wiggle room, however, this will be a serviceable option as a barebones entry-level gaming PC.

The AMD AM4 socket on a B450 motherboard offers a lot of upgradability. The easiest upgrade will be the addition of a graphics card which should immediately boost performance by allowing higher graphics settings and increase framerates at 1080p. A used AMD RX 580 can be had for around $100 and even a new one should cost no more than around $150. The motherboard can also support a CPU drop-in upgrade with a modern Ryzen 3600 6 core/ 12 thread CPU costing about $200 dollars. Ryzen 4000 desktop CPUs being released in Q4 2020 will compatible though launch date and skus are not available as this time. This PC offers good flexibility for staggered upgrades even if it means throwing the CPU in the recycle bin after 12 months.

If the build must come in below 500 dollars, the AMD 3200G might save you up to 40-50 dollars although the hit in graphics performance is noticeable and the 3200G does not have SMT. This is not a recommended option but it does exist.


Budget 1080p gaming at 60 FPS

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($171.89 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Gigabyte B450 AORUS ELITE ATX AM4 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Best Buy)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($64.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA Ultimate SU800 512 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($64.97 @ Amazon)
Video Card: XFX Radeon RX 580 8 GB GTS XXX ED Video Card ($169.99 @ B&H)
Case: Corsair 275R Airflow ATX Mid Tower Case ($72.20 @ Amazon)
Power Supply: Cooler Master MasterWatt 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ B&H)
Total: $734.02
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-14 19:16 EDT-0400

For 730 USD, a solid budget PC can be had for gaming at 1080p with ~60 FPS, with high settings, in modern AAA titles. The CPU listed is the Ryzen 3600 which is now at 170 USD. Since the time of launch about 9 months ago, this outstanding value-oriented CPU has come down in price sufficiently to crowd out its older cousins which used to occupy the budget space. The other CPUs in contention are the Ryzen 2600 (can also be listed as a 1600AF or 1600 (12nm edition)) or the 3300X but only if they can beat the 3600 in price by at least 50 USD to maintain the same price to performance ratio. The 2600 and its variants lack the 3600's improvement in per-core speed and efficiency while the 3300X comes with just 4 cores which can be a detriment later in the system's life as games get more thread intensive. Ask in the thread for a more in-depth explanation if required.

A discreet graphics card has also been added and it is the remains the venerable AMD RX 580. If you want additional headroom to increase graphics settings in-game or to "lock-in" 60 FPS per second, an additional $50 dollars or so will net you the GTX 1660 Super which is the new king of the 1080p, High/Ultra settings, 60 FPS playground. AMD's offerings in the GPU upgrade department include the 5600XT. Sidegrade options for the RX580 include the Nvidia 1650 Super and the AMD 5500XT. These two options sip less power. This PC should be able to comfortably handle any modern-day game with an average of 60 FPS with typical "medium/high" in-game settings.

The storage listed is a 500 GB SATA SSD. The motherboard does offer a SATA/NVME M.2 slot and a minor cost increase of ~10-20 dollars will net you a fancier SSD though performance gains in booting Windows and loading games will be negligible.


Flex 1080p at 100+ FPS or 1440p at 60+ FPS

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($171.89 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Best Buy)
Memory: Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 CL16 Memory ($57.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon RX 5700 XT 8 GB PULSE Video Card ($399.99 @ Amazon)
Case: Phanteks Eclipse P400A ATX Mid Tower Case ($80.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Cooler Master MasterWatt 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply ($79.99 @ B&H)
Total: $1020.82
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-14 19:15 EDT-0400

The $1000-$1100 price range will buy you either a true high refresh rate experience at 1080p or offer a solid 1440p (also known as QHD) experience at 60-90 FPS. This build will serve either a gamer who owns a 144Hz or 240Hz 1080p monitor or a gamer with a 1440p monitor. The graphics card is now the AMD RX 5700XT, the current mainstream recommendation at 1440p. The PSU is also upgraded to a 650w fully modular unit for increased headroom in case future upgrades require it.

There is a ton of flexibility to this build. Should the current budget be insufficient, there is a myriad of cost-cutting measures or reasonable upgrades available to the buyer. On the CPU front, the 3600 will likely remain a capable CPU for the foreseeable future. If one wishes to cut costs, the alternative CPUs listed in the budget 1080p build remain viable options. If one wishes a degree of future-proofing for 8 core consoles launching this Thanksgiving, purchasing a 3700X at an additional 80 USD will let you match them core for core. Both the XBOX and PS5 will run a custom version of the 3700X processor which means the 3700X has the potential to age in the long-term (24-48 month) better than the 3600 might. This is speculation though as we have no idea if developers can or will leverage all 8 cores at launch or how badly 6 core parts will fare should doomsday come to pass.

The previous version of this build had 3600 MHz CL16 RAM but with 3200 CL16 RAM sliding in at sub 70 dollar rates, it may be worth saving the around 30 bucks or so if you can find a cheap QVL complaint kit and give up ~2-4 FPS tops if money is tight. The SSD is now a 1TB drive for extra storage. With the size of games these days, 500 GB can feel quite small.

Another option is to go for a more budget-oriented GPU. The AMD RX 5700 offers only an 8-15% drop in performance and can be had for as low as $330-350 at the time of writing. This will mean that you run the risk of having games drop below 60 FPS at times but with modern monitors and adaptive sync technology, the penalty for dropping slightly below 60 FPS is nowhere near as punishing to the user experience as before. Other budget options include older AMD and Nvidia GPUs. The Vega 56/64 series cards can sometimes be had for cheaper though in general, if you want AMD, the 5700 is the way to go. Nvidia doesn't really have a serviceable budget option here. The 2060 non-super is simply not recommended due to its 6 GB of VRAM. If push comes to shove, the GTX 1660 Super and 1660 Ti can be pressed into 1440p service at reduced graphics settings (medium) so if you want to carry those GPUs over to a new build, that can be an option although buying them new for this build is not recommended. There are better places to find savings on a gaming PC.

If you have the extra money in the budget and want to spend it for better performance, the primary place will be the GPU. The RTX 2070 Super from Nvidia is $100 dollars more for marginally superior performance (title to title basis) but does have ray tracing support on its hardware. Ray tracing on current RTX cards are abysmal, however. If you want to guarantee good ray tracing performance, wait until this fall when new cards come out. That said one potential ace that the RTX lineup has up its sleeve is DLSS 2.0. This Nvidia technology allows for rendering at low resolution and then upscaling while maintaining visual fidelity although the games that currently have this as an option can be counted on two hands. The RTX 2080 and 2080 Super are options to consider if you want better frames per second performance than what the 5700XT can offer. AMD currently has no viable competitor to these Nvidia offerings. Be prepared to pay for the performance.


Flex 1440p 100+ FPS or 2160p - You should not buy this build see notes.

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 3700X 3.6 GHz 8-Core Processor ($259.99 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus TUF GAMING X570-PLUS ATX AM4 Motherboard ($164.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 CL16 Memory ($75.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Crucial P1 1 TB M.2-2280 NVME Solid State Drive ($104.99 @ Adorama)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce RTX 2080 SUPER 8 GB BLACK GAMING Video Card ($719.99 @ Walmart)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($98.99 @ Walmart)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($116.01 @ Amazon)
Total: $1540.95
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2020-07-14 19:35 EDT-0400

If you are in the market for this kind of performance, you should wait till September or October and go all-in on next-gen. RTX 3000 series and AMD 6000 series will offer major performance boosts over the 2080 Super/Ti for much less. That is before considering ray tracing. There isn't much to be said here that isn't already covered by the previous sections. 4K gaming at high settings will require a 2080 Super at least with a 2080 Ti being recommended. You can still use a Ryzen 3600 if you want for a 4K build as the GPU is the main constraint to save some money.

The main update to the build from the July 2019 variant is the inclusion of an X570 motherboard for PCIE 4.0 access and the potential for newer SSDs this fall to make use of the extra bandwidth available. Also, I have scaled back the GPU to the 2080 Super as the 2080 TI remains well above 1000 USD. The 2080 TI is recommended though if you want 4K performance right now. Next-gen GPUs can't come soon enough.


MikeC fucked around with this message at 23:40 on Sep 9, 2020

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Agrajag posted:

I'm not really going to be buying new parts within the next few months but looking at 2020 onward will my pc still hold up for gaming? Im thinking games like Cyberpunk 2077, Death Stranding, and I suppose RDR 2 at 1440p 144hz? Currently I only play Destiny 2.

My system is:

Intel i5 7600k (oc'ed to 4ghz iirc)
16gb ram
EVGA GTX 1070
(I'm already using NVME for the OS and another SSD specifically for games. Might look into Samsung's QVO for mass storage)

Your GPU is starting to age a bit for 1440p. If you can live with reduced settings and 60 fps, you should be fine. Just don't expect high or ultra out of the box settings. Some tweaking will be required.

@Stickman Wilco, will edit tonight when I get home.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Stickman posted:

Thanks for writing all this great stuff out! At the beginning where you talk about asking the thread, I'd mention that prices change and there are a lot of interchangeable parts, so there's a good chance that asking will shave a bit of the cost the build. I'd also mention the motherboard/cpu combo deals at Microcenter for US folks.

In the budget builds, the Corsair CX (2017) basically the same price as the VS for a newer, higher-quality design.

For the ultra-budget build, the 3400g and 2400g have close to identical gaming performance and dropping down lets you move to a cheaper (but still upgrade-capablee) motherboard. I also switched to the cheaper Masterbox Q300L, which really needs the extra intake fan but still comes out cheaper and more compact. That'll either save $70 or give headroom for upgrade to a 1TB drive. It might also be worth mentioning that swapping out to Ryzen 1600 + 1650/570 is just ~$100 more and would vastly improve performance in more demanding games, but that might be better relegated to thread advice.

MSi's Armor cooling was still terrible when the 580 was released, so I'd avoid that particular model. Unfortunately, 580 prices aren't what they once were and the cheapest model I'd recommend is only $20 away from a decent 1660 (the Ventus doesn't have fan-stop, but it's cooling is fine).

E: For the "Flex" build, I'd probably just go ahead and throw in a Meshify C. It's a decent build-quality upgrade over the P400 for only $20. I'd also just stick to 3200MHz RAM - G.Skill lists that 3600 kit as only qvl for a few top-end x570 boards, so it could potentially have XMP issues.

I'd also probably mention that the 2080 Super is a "splurge" upgrade - it's a pretty marginal ~15% performance boost for $300 over the XT (or $200 over the 2070 Super).

EE: Apparently the su750 is dramless so I'd probably just recommend spending the extra $5 for an su800 to avoid the extra wear-and-tear.

I made several of the changes you suggested. Thanks for looking it over, especially shaving off more money on the ultra-budget build.

The 3600 DDR Ram for Flex and up builds I think should stay even if you want a b450 board. The performance gain is real unless you get really bad timings. The Tomahawk Max has plenty of 3600 QVL ram available and it is just a matter of getting them a kit that is reasonable when they ask. I made sure to say that they are essentially "placeholders". For the last build I just put in the 2080 Ti. If someone wants to spend for a 4k build which is already well past the sweet spot, might as well start them off with the best.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Gnumonic posted:

I'm hoping and praying that I don't run into AMD driver hell. The first two PCs I ever built used AMD (well, ATI back then) cards and I had pretty much sworn an oath to Nvidia after a mountain of driver issues. Seems like most of the Navi problems have been resolved by now. The price/performance chasm between Nvidia and AMD in the $3-400 range was just too much this time, couldn't stomach the sense that I'd be getting ripped off if I bought an Nvidia card.

Everyday gaming use is fine this gen. I haven't had a hiccup in 7 weeks on the Pulse 5700XT. Gamers Nexus did say they ran into issues fighting the software on the overclocking end and fan controls are finicky if you want exact curves but most users seem to just plug it in, install the drivers and go. In which case you are fine.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

JosephSkunk posted:

Hi folks may i please request a sanity check? I'm buying a pc for my son for xmas, WA state US. He wants to run Doom, has a 1920x1080 monitor and isn't much into caring about turning up the detail. I want to keep it cheap as possible. Newegg has sale on this:

Ryzen 5 1st Gen 1600 (3.20 GHz)
8 GB DDR4
480 GB SSD
Windows 10 Home 64-bit
AMD Radeon RX 580 4 GB GDDR5

For <$500. It's got lots of lights and poo poo like that which i think my son will really love.

Is this a good deal and will it run basic hd on modern games?


Edit https://www.newegg.com/p/N82E16883230484

They aren't ripping you off by any means but it falls short in some aspects from what we normally recommend.

The good:

Ryzen 1600 is still a fine CPU but if we were doing a DYI, we would just pay for a 2600 which is 10 bucks more in most cases. But it is not a big deal. It will do the job until 6 core CPUs become obsolete for gaming and when that happens, all 6 core SMT CPUs like it will go with it, even a modern 3600.
The Powersupply at 600w is more than enough to power the machine and supply enough juice for upgrades later on.


The bad:

8GB is below the usual recommendation of 16GB of RAM. We also don't know what type of ram it is at what speed it is at and in what configuration. This will potentially impact performance.
The Video card is also a 4GB version of the Rx 580. While it will run Doom just fine (it is an old game) newer titles will likely start to choke on 4GB with high detailed texture files. You can combat this by lowering texture quality but it might look ugly.
The SSD at 480 GB is very small. You won't be able to install too much on it but if its just DOOM, then we are ok. Keep in mind you don't actually have all 480 GBs to work with. SSDs need a bit of a buffer most of the time or they might start running like dogshit on some SSD types. Without the specs being known on the newegg site, we can't say for sure.

The skinny is that if all he wants is DOOM at 1080p, sure this system will probably do just fine. It is just that its lifespan as a gaming PC with acceptable settings feels very short. You can't put much more on it besides the OS and a few games. Compromises on settings will almost certainly have to be made for AAA games today, much less tomorrow. But if keeping costs down is an absolute requirement then this does the job so to speak. If you are worried that you are getting robbed blind, then I would say no, they are offering a fair price for the parts and putting it together for you with a 1 yr warrenty. Goons tend to look down on prebuilds but if this fits the bill and you don't care about longevity then, by all means, pull the trigger.

If you are willing to spend even a bit more, you can DYI a solution that will likely last longer.


edit:

[PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 1600 3.2 GHz 6-Core Processor ($99.12 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: MSI B450M PRO-M2 MAX Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($74.98 @ Amazon)
Memory: Team T-FORCE VULCAN Z 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3000 Memory ($49.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: ADATA Ultimate SU800 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($97.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 580 8 GB ARMOR OC Video Card ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair SPEC-04 ATX Mid Tower Case ($54.99 @ Corsair)
Power Supply: Corsair CX (2017) 550 W 80+ Bronze Certified ATX Power Supply ($59.99 @ Corsair)
Total: $597.05
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-17 20:13 EST-0500

Add 20 bucks for a Windows 10 key you can get off SA mart that is totally legit.

This is a quick and dirty DYI parts list that gives you an idea of what 620 dollars will buy. Same CPU, 16 GBs of RAM, 8GB VRAM video card, 1 TB of storage. If you are willing to dip into ebay to get a used RX 580 for 100 bucks or so you can save another 50 bucks. I'd have to check the RAM to make sure it is compatible with the motherboard but if it isn't this RAM kit, there are plenty more like it on the verified compatibility list for the same price.

The downside is that you have to build it yourself and you don't get the keyboard, mice and if something goes wrong, you can't just take it back to them and tell them to fix it.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 01:17 on Nov 18, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Cyrano4747 posted:

Yeah. Looking at prices youíre right on that.

One more idiot question: how much of a handicap is ddr4-2400 in this day and age? Basically fine if a bit old or would I be kneecapping myself by putting it in a newer system? Would 32gb of that (or 16 plus 16 of whateverís modern and cheap down shifting to the old stuff) be better than 16gb of new ram?

Edit: gently caress me AMD vs Intel for cost:performance isnít even a completion these days is it? This is what happens when you only look at hardware once every 4-5 years.

Is there some monkey paw poo poo with current AMD I donít know about? Will it give me cancer? Is AMD owned by Hitlerís reanimated corpse? Do the chips spontaneously combust after two years?

Slower memory is a handicap in games. The difference between a 2400 kit vs 3600 kit with decent latency can range from 5-10% difference in FPS performance. Not with all titles, or all configurations but the trend is clear. Anything less than 3000 MHz RAM and you be guaranteed to experience performance loss that is outside of variance. More slow memory won't help you. It is the speed at which the CPU can get RAM to regurgitate its data and push it back that counts.

edit: This is assuming your motherboard and CPU support faster memory. I was talking in a general sense. This is not saying you should buy faster memory for your current rig.

In the mid-range, Intel has no offering that comes close to AMD. AMD delivers more cores and threads at a cheaper price than Intel does without sacrificing meaningful single-core performance as it did in the past. The fact that Intel decided to lock multithreading away from consumers has bit them in the rear end. The 9600k is a 6 core part just like the R5 3600 that AMD has. Except the 3600 comes with SMT so it has 12 threads vs Intel's 6. The 9600k is now dropping frames on more modern titles that are starting to leverage the extra threads. People are suffering from micro stutters in games like Battlefield multiplayer and Assassin's creed. The best gaming CPU is still on Intel's side with the 9900K being the top dog but it is by an insignificant amount and it only matters if you have an 1100 dollar video card to pair with it. Anything slower than a 2080 Ti will almost certainly be bottlenecked by the GPU anyways.

The only downside to AMD is that you have to stay on top of BIOS updates much more frequently and you have to pick your RAM and motherboard carefully. You want to make sure they play nice with one another or you could get a lot of headaches. Check the RAM QVL on your motherboard of choice and buy a kit off that list to minimize the chances of compatibility issues.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 06:53 on Nov 18, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Cyrano4747 posted:

OK, another question. I'm seeing some deals at microcenter for motherboard + processor combos. Is it worth the extra $30 to move up to a Ryzen 7 2700x from the Ryzen 5 2600 bundle?

Strictly on a CPU vs CPU comparison right now, if you are gaming then no. If you stream or run a lot tasks in the background or you have other tasks that require more cores then yes.

In the nebulous future of 24 to 48 months where no one knows anything for sure, 6 core CPUs may age much worse than an 8 core due to new consoles having 8 core AMD chips in them.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

The 3600 is on a new architecture which has 5 to 10 percent IPC gains along with better sustained clock speeds. This wipes out the 2700x's extra cores unless you have a workload that saturates 8 cores 16 threads.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Klaaz posted:

Edit I am slow


Anyway, I'll just order a new cable then! Might buy a new PSU later. Tnx for help guys, much apreciated.

You sure you don't have a 6+2 tucked away in the PSU box somewhere? As stickman said, your PSU should have come with one.

Oxyclean posted:

Cool. This is really helpful. (I'll need a case, but I presume that's moslty personal preference, as long as I get something that can fit standard ATX?)

Whats the tradeoffs between the 2700x and the 3600? The former seems to be Ryzen 7 and the latter is Ryzen 5, I guess that's like a generation thing? If they're about the same price, why not go for the 2700X if it has 2 more cores?

I was at work so I couldn't reply more in-depth.

The case is a personal thing. The latest fad in the case industry is mesh + good airflow and goons have a love affair with the Meshify C so you get that recommended a lot. Its a bit pricy in Canada and there are other options if you want to not spend 130 bucks on a case. The 275R Airflow from Corsair, the P400A from Phanteks are more budget options with the same airflow performance.

Basically, the difference between the 2700X and the 3600 in gaming will be 1% low frame rates since on the upper end you are usually GPU bound. The 3600 is a good bit quicker on single-threaded performance and will usually net you around 5-10 FPS on the 1% low side while not really shifting the overall FPS needle much. They are around the same price in Canada so you can't really go wrong with either choice. If you aren't doing production task or you don't care about Borderlands 3, there isn't really a reason not to go with the 3600. I think AMD still has the game bundle going where a 2700X nets you a free copy of Borderlands 3. You can also pick the Outer Worlds but the Outer Worlds is on the Xbox Game Pass right now which you also get 3 free months of if you buy any modern Ryzen CPU.

Zikan posted:

After thinking about it, I think I'm just going to go with a GTX 1660ti during Black Friday sales. Glad my CPU will do for now (this is what I was most concerned about since I knew that my graphic card needed an upgrade anyway). Then I'll budget for a CPU/Motherboard upgrade, new monitor, and see how the prices shake out after the newest cards release next year.

Thanks thread!

I would hold off as long as possible on the CPU/mobo upgrade. Don't upgrade on a whimsy right now. Upgrade only if performance is totally unacceptable. The CPU wars are starting to heat up and who knows what 2020 and 2021 will bring. Intel will probably lay quiet in 2020 but may be poised to dump cheap 14nm produce with SMT enabled for consumers finally and drive prices down. Zen 3 (Ryzen 4000 desktop series) will be coming out mid-2020 on 7nm+ with the potential of finally breaking down Intel's bastion of best single-threaded performance. They are unifying cache on their chiplets which could mean even more IPC gains over Zen 2. Meanwhile, Intel Golden Cove could come to the consumer desktops by 2021 on their 10nm node and it will trade blows with Zen 4.

It looks we are finally leaving a near-decade of stagnation on the CPU front. Developers are starting to use more cores more frequently. The days of buying a CPU and having it be good for 5+ years may be over. Hell, I only recently upgraded my personal gaming rig from a 2500k. Exciting times ahead.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 00:38 on Nov 19, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Grand Prize Winner posted:

Quoting in hopes of answers.

I think very few of us are familiar with your use case of streaming and audio capture. Like the extent of my experience is turning on Geforce Experience, using audacity and a cheap mic for voice-overs and calling it a day. I also don't do wifi, I use physical cabling all my computers. I'll try to answer what I can. I will say that you should Frankenstein the best possible parts for your primary gaming PC and leave the leftovers for the capture machine unless your research indicates otherwise.

1. The old 2400 ram is probably fine. Since you have to build off of the extra mobo that you have, you aren't exactly packing the latest CPUs. But if you building a new one anyway, why not get yourself a compatible 2x8 GB kit for your gaming machine?
2. No idea friend, there is a dedicated home networking thread on this forum
3+4. No clue, I capture everything on my own machine and the performance loss feels minimal.
5. This one is easy. SA mart has 2 goons that sell Windows 7 Pro keys that Windows 10 will accept as a valid license for 19 dollars.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Incessant Excess posted:

I'll look into that, this video was the reason why I took the MSI into closer consideration originally:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuyuS04lD4o#t=742s

Buildzoid is an overclocker that assumes you be doing something crazy with your gear. He also loves features that most people in here looking for a.gaming PC don't need. His recommendations are based on that. When he says no to a board in that video, it means that you can't drop a 3900x on it and do an all core 4.5 GHz OC at 1.45v to run a 24 hour torture test and not expect your VRMs to melt.

We don't do recommendations based on that. We assume normal operating use case. We might recommend a stripped down board with functional VRMs that will take an a 3600 or 3700x at stock values on a gaming workload. We will recommend based on usability which is why we unless it is a super budget build, the Tomahawk MAX gets recommended a lot for out of box compatibility with Ryzen 3000 for example.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Morter posted:

Hey folks, I've been trying to figure out a rig to upgrade from my current gaming/general purpose computer but due to brokebrain and procrastination I've been putting it off. Now cyber sale times are almost here and I'm desperate for some guidance. I can build my own computer but I haven't done so in 7 years and I haven't been keeping up on the newest hot poo poo.

I'm asking for a general framework of a gaming rig that'll play modern games in 1080p at 60FPS or at least smoothly. If possible, I also want to try an AMD centric rig for the first time.

I currently have a GTX970 in my middle-of-the-road-in-2012 machine and I'm feeling it big time. I have no need for peripherals like monitors, input devices, etc. Just the tower and components within. I've tried parts picker but even mulling over mobos and towers gets me too caught up in my own head.

Please, I request just a point in the right direction.

What country are you in? USA.

What are you using the system for? Gaming and web browsing. Maybe streaming but nothing more professional than displaying my screen. Specifically, I want the AMD equivalent of a GTX 1660 unless dissuaed for something better and/or cheaper-but-just-as-functional

What's your budget? I haven't really put a price on it because I"m sure I'll work it out but I'd say no more than $1000-1200. 800 is my ideal but I can go over that.

If you're gaming, what is your monitor resolution? How fancy do you want your graphics, from ďit runsĒ to ďUltra preset as fast as possibleĒ? 1920x1080 on 60FPS with Medium/high or at least smooth. Being "ultra" isn't necessary.

Start here

https://forums.somethingawful.com/s...3#post499984447

If you have specific requirements let us know.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

The reality is that you do not have enough funds to make any kind of meaningful progress in terms of upgrading two PCs at once. Anything you do with that money spread over two PCs is likely throwing good money after bad. How much money is coming down the pipeline?

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

meteor9 posted:

Sadly just a total of $800 AUD, just feels like these systems are getting long in the tooth and I'm going a bit stir crazy on them since this'd be the first 'bonus' check I've ever gotten. The 750 Ti / i3-4150 combo worked alright back when we built these in 2014 but I was hoping I could do *something* or at least maybe piecemeal upwards over the next year or so. Not the best plan, I'm sure, but sadly it's all I got to work with.

Granted it was $1200 before but someone's Moto G 3e was dying horribly.

E. Didn't see that second reply! Yeah, probably just gonna hold off for now then, I was letting the whole "Black Friday Dealz!" thing overtake me.

If you are that strapped for cash, then the used market is the only place you will be able to do much effectively. Upgrading piecemeal works if you are within the confines of current generation tech. IE, you are leapfrogging every year to the latest "best-in-class budget option" alternating between CPU, GPU, and storage/peripherals as needed so nothing is a severe bottleneck. Right now your systems are so far out of date that it is very hard to buy new parts in that price bracket that make sense.


However, the used market, if you are willing to risk the pitfalls that come along with it, can bring great deals that maybe within your budget. There are two Aussie Youtube channels you should review to get a sense of your options here. The first is Tech YES City https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=user?bryaneasy?featured and the second is Phil's Computer lab https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=user?philscomputerlab. Both these guys have extensive videos over the past year on budget used builds, often with unconventional parts. Most of it is not a 1 to 1 translation to what you can do, for example Tech went to Taiwan to dig through scrapyards for parts, not something you will be doing but they will help you identify potential dirt cheap components on various social media used market or even Ali Express that you can use to piece together something reasonably serviceable at a massive discount over paying retail prices, Black Friday or no.

If not, then you really just have to save up money. Your budget per PC is simply so low you are at the bottom of the price/performance curve where it simply makes no sense to buy anything since every marginal dollar more increases performance by a significant degree relatively speaking. When you are at that point in the curve, it is almost always better not to buy so when you do end up getting more money to augment that budget, you will be getting better performance since you will be buying tomorrow's parts.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Look Sir Droids posted:

Current build is about five years old, so I'm getting build-curious. What's the current recommendation for Performance Gamer? I don't see it in the new thread OP.

Phone posting so I can't get you the link but check my post history on this thread. You will find it near the beginning. It Breathes hasn't linked it yet.


Bank posted:

Looking to last me 4-5 years.

The 1660 Super that Stickman recommend won't be good for 4 to 5 years. It isn't a big deal just be prepared to upgrade the GPU if you want a solid 60 fps in about 24 to 36 months time. It is still a good value option and what I recommend as well.

It is better than trying to future proof by buying something significantly more expensive now.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

The 9600k is very suspect right now. We know for a fact it is dropping frames and causing stuttering in some games already, especially battlefield multiplayer. This will get worse.

There is no way Xbox scarlet is doing true 4k at 120 FPS natively. The hardware doesn't exist for that anywhere close to an acceptable price point. Unless AMD is about to blow us away with "Big Navi". But it is a custom Zen 2 8 core part that will be in both the Sony and MS machine.

They most definitely will be scaling graphics or doing some sort of cheating on the resolution like they did way back with the original xbox when it was 1080i, not 1080p or by upscaling. This is not uncommon. Remember games are continually having "visual downgrade" drama because developers have to keep compensating for consoles.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

ItBreathes posted:

Hey MikeC, I've linked your build guide post in the OP. Can you do me a favor and put in the full PCPP BBcode output on the example builds?

Wilco when I get home tonight.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Can anyone with an Nvidia card give me a no bullshit status update on how well their card does with a FreeSync monitor these days? I know there is the "Gsync compatible" label some monitors have but is that an actual real certification or just marketing? The 1650 Super is getting good reviews. It is competitive with an RX 580, sips significantly less power, and looks to have an MSRP of $150 or so. I am probably going to replace the RX 580 in the budget build section of the guide with a 1650 Super once it is available on the market assuming the RX 5500 doesn't show up soon and can do better. I just don't want to know if that would lock them into the Nvidia ecosystem of monitors.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

MagusDraco posted:

Now my actual budget is more like $750-$800. I plan on using whatever I have here for the next several years, upgrading the cpu to an 8 core ryzen 4000 and/or a new gpu as needed.

My questions:
1) Should I just get a new power supply? The one I'm moving over was put into service March 2016 and has a 7 year warranty so it has a bit over 3 years left. Besides it being older only other reason why I'd get a new power supply is so I don't have to remove it from my old computer, letting me keep it around for a bit if my new one has issues when building it (bad parts that I need to RMA or whatever). What power supply would you recommend if I got a new one and is it worth my time to go up to one that's 750 watts?
2) I suck at googling ram with the QVL. I always find something that's not quite the right model number. could I get 16 and 32 gigs 3200mhz and 3600mhz ram suggestions for the tomahawk max since I'm struggling to find stuff on the qvl? I'm not sure I really need 32 gigs but some games are starting to want 12+ and I'm curious to see the price differences.
3) Is there any reason for me to go with something better than the stock cpu cooler. I wasn't planning to manually OC, just turn on PBO or whatever you do for ryzen cpus and leave it at that?

Be aware that while everyone strongly believes Ryzen 4000 desktop will be AM4 compatible (ie will work on your Tomahawk), this is not guaranteed. AMD refuses to outright answer this question. They just keep saying that they will support AM4 through 2020.

1) I personally wouldn't buy a new one, some goons are paranoid and it is true that a bad power supply can ruin everything but if you have one that works within spec, still has warranty then I don't see a compelling reason why you should buy another one.

2) https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Jg...600c16d-16gtznc This is 3600 MHz CL 16 RBG ram that is 2x8 for 99 bucks and on the QVL.
https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Cf...43200c16d16gvkb This is 3200 CL 16 RAM 2x8 for 65 bucks and on the QVL.

3) I personally find the stock fan to be WTF loud. Others think it is fine. Leave PBO alone, the chips just boost themselves whenever they feel they need it. The only think you need to turn on is XMP for the Ram.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Oxyclean posted:

So I put together the parts list based on the various recommendations:
PCPartPicker Part List
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($259.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Motherboard: MSI X570-A PRO ATX AM4 Motherboard ($199.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory ($100.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Blue 1 TB M.2-2280 Solid State Drive ($149.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Case: Fractal Design Meshify C ATX Mid Tower Case ($99.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Power Supply: Corsair VS 550 W 80+ Certified ATX Power Supply ($64.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Total: $875.94
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-11-24 14:34 EST-0500

It's going to be 875$ CAD before tax, which is getting up there but still under the 1k. Probably gonna wait for Black Friday / Cyber Monday to see if I can save?

That said, the pc parts picker is giving me this error, is it right? (I tried another Corsair PSU and it gave me the same error)

(Also I noticed that case has a tempered glass side panel...silly question, but that's not particular fragile is it? Never had glass in case, I have to assume that's not going to be a problem with shipping and such...?)
e: VVV oh neat, thanks!

e2: How do people feel about modular PSUs? Wondering if it'd be worth it to shell out a bit more for one to have less cord spaghetti.

Not sure how Black Friday will shake out, but it is like a week away so you might as well scope it out unless there is a deal for something right now. You can ignore the additional 4 pin error unless you play on dropping a 3950x or something absurd and overclocking it. Tempered glass requires some caution when handling but if you aren't slamming it down or something you wouldn't do normally do with glass it is safe. I personally like modular PSUs simply because some cases don't have a lot of room to house unused cables. Typically PSU manufacturers throw in modularity as the quality of the PSU goes up anyways.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

The 2700X is not on the Tomahawk MAX's official CPU support list. They support the PRO version of the 2700X. https://www.amd.com/en/products/cpu...zen-7-pro-2700x

They are different SKUs. I would wager that a regular 2700X would work but I am not about to advise you to become that ginny pig. Google thoroughly to make sure.

edit: quick googling doesn't show anyone saying it doesn't work. But I cannot find anyone saying that it does without proof. Unless you are feeling adventurous, I would advise you to get a different chip or different board. I realize I am very conservative on QVL issues but you don't want to be the dude that has issues, can't resolve and when you fire off an email to customer support they turn around and politely tell you that you hosed up.

edit 2: There is no one online that has this combo. Probably because whoever is buying a Tomahawk MAX is specifically doing it for a Ryzen 3000 system. Everyone claiming it will work online has no first-hand experience and they seem to be talking out of their rear end. I would definitely wave off if I were you or contact MSI Customer Service and get confirmation that the 2700X will be ok.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 05:51 on Nov 26, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Mu Zeta posted:

https://asset.msi.com/pdf/main/glob...50-TOMAHAWK-MAX

It says it supports all first, second, and third gen Ryzen.

https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/sup...MAX#support-cpu

The 2700X is conspicuously missing from the official list.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Snazzy Frocks posted:

some reports ive read suggest that the 6 core will suffer in performance significantly sooner in future gaming compared to 8 core. is this true? hence why i'm leaning towards 2700/3700 over 3600

In addition to what Stickman said, even in the event that new games will use all 8 cores, the performance penalty will largely come in the form of frame time consistency with fps spikes as the render thread gets interrupted as the scheduler needs to use that core to get something done.

This is unlikely given that the AMD chips all have multithreading that it will be unlikely that it is the render thread is the one that gets hit with a 3600. It is not impossible though so we present the option if you want to go 8 core.

Where an 8 core would make sense is if you intend to run a lot of tasks concurrently while gaming. Things like streaming along with multiple programs running at the same time for example.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Tallgeese posted:

Does it matter much of the RAM you're thinking of (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07X8DVDZ...=ogi&th=1&psc=1) isn't on your mobo's memory list yet, but a review say it works out of the box on it no questions asked?

EDIT: Well OK, the review said it worked out of the box on a non-MAX B450 Tomahawk and a non-X Ryzen 3600, but query stands. The list shows F4-3600C16D-16GVK, but sadly not F4-3600C16D-16GVKC.

You are taking a small risk that probably can be avoided for a small sum of money by picking a QVL part. It is hard to know just from reviews whether something works or not at rated speeds unless they specifically said that they got XMP to work at the rated RAM speed. I suspect a significant portion of people doesn't even know to go into bios to even set their RAM at the proper rated speed as it happened to one goon who built within the past 3 months.

Best-case scenario, your BIOS will figure out some timings on its own for your RAM kit and you will get at or near the full performance that your RAM can give you.

Most probable scenario: Your BIOS will run the RAM kit on XMP with loose timings but still giving you very good performance that no sane person should futz with.

Worst-case scenario: Your BIOS can't figure the RAM out and defaults to 2133 MHz meaning that you will need to tune the RAM in BIOS manually or you will be leaving a lot of performance on the table. This can be a huge pain in the rear end.

https://pcpartpicker.com/product/Cf...43200c16d16gvkb

Why don't you just pick up this kit? Its 3200 CL 16 RAM. Its a bit slower than the 3600 kit but it is not noticeably worse and it is QVL approved.


Beverly Cleavage posted:

IIRC, intel gave up on 10 and is shifting entirely to 7nm.

It is not so much that they have given up on 10nm, Intel Sunny Cove chips are already shipping on mobile. It is just that it may be that Intel might have its own 7nm process working in good order by the time they get 10nm sorted out to supply desktop so there is little point. Their strategy on the desktop space may be to play rope-a-dope with 14nm Comet Lake with SMT unlocked on the entire desktop lineup and aggressive pricing in Q1 or Q2 before Zen 3 comes and stomps on them again. And then swing really hard in 2021 with Golden Cove and 7nm.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 00:26 on Nov 29, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Tallgeese posted:

Yeah, they claimed they got the XMP to work immediately. I was looking at DDR4-3600 because I was under the impression that for Ryzen 3600 it was a noticeable difference, but if this is not the case I'll save the ten bucks.

Unless you stare at your FPS counter while gaming instead of actually gaming, you won't notice the difference. Most benchmarks show the performance falloff starting to hit really hard below 3000 Mhz. But if you want to get the 3600 kit, go for it, it is the same one I am using. It has got some new weird Hynix memory die though so you won't find it on Ryzen DRAM calculator right now if you intend to overclock.

tehinternet posted:

Yeah, Iím torn on this as well. Iíve been reading that the 9700k is best for gaming but the 3700x has more cores and will probably be better moving forwards?

Same cores, no SMT on the intel part though.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Cyrano4747 posted:

Quick question. I was poking around this thread a bit ago talking about upgrading a system that's currently an i5 6600 (non-k) with 16gb of ram and a GTX 970. 500gb SSD and an ancient 500gb spinning drive that I only use for media (i.e. no gaming)

I've found a good deal on a RTX 2070 (newegg is selling them for $400 right now), but I'm indecisive as poo poo and reading around online I"m seeing a bunch of stuff saying that with that processor and gpu combo I'll be so badly bottlenecked I might as well not bother.

I know the CPU has to go, but I figured that the GPU was the bigger weak link right now. I really don't want to do a complete system refresh right now, and was hoping to kick the can on that for a bit. I won't have the spare cash to gut everything out for a bit.

Would I notice a difference grabbing the GPU now and upgrading the mobo and processor in 6-12 months (probably to whatever the then-recommended mid-high Ryzen is) or should I just grab a new processor now and kick the can on the GPU?

edit: It's a general purpose system, but the heavy lifting it does is gaming. On a 1080p monitor right now, but that is also up for a change in the future, although probably not until after I take care of the rest of it. I fired up Kingdom Come to get some numbers and it can comfortably sit in the 55-60 fps ballpark in a moderately busy small town scene (aka the latest random save I had) on medium settings, 35-45 on high, and 25-35 on very high.

edit 2: mostly I don't want to upgrade the CPU and not really see any improvement until I get a new GPU in 6-12 months. I thought I'd be able to avoid that with the GPU first path, but now I'm seeing that I might be wasting my money either way.

I know the real answer is probably going to be to save up until I can do them both at once, but if I do that I'll probably end up spending it on one of my other dumb hobbies.

edit 3: Really I just want to be able to play Cyberpunk and the upcoming Doom without it looking like roasted rear end.


Speaking from practical experience when I had a 5700XT dropped in an i5 2500k system, you will basically be heavily capped by the CPU. However, if you are going to do a tiered upgrade where you absolutely want to spend money now rather than husband it for a full system refresh in 6-12 months' time, then yes, getting the GPU upgrade now probably makes the most sense *see caveat at the end though*. Assuming you don't have an adaptive sync monitor, the penalty for losing 60 FPS with vsync is severe. The 2070, even a non super, will solve that problem for you in situations where you are not CPU bound below 60 FPS. For example, I saw major improvements to Deus Ex Mankind Divided FPS stability even while I was on my 2500k. Now I had a lot of frame hitching and input lag issues because the 2500K couldn't keep up, and I waited till I got my Ryzen upgrade before actually finishing the game but the overall experience was an upgrade from the GTX 970. The 2070 will also let you grow into a new 1440p monitor should you decide to upgrade down the line. Just expect to be using Med-High settings in 12-24 months' time which is normal since games always get more demanding.

The tricky part of answering your question right now is that DOOM and Cyberpunk aren't out yet and we don't have any tech information from those games as of right now. We have no idea whether a 4c/4t CPU at 3.3 GHz can handle these games without major issues. You could drop the 2070 into your rig only to find that your CPU is making your quality of life terrible in those games. Or maybe it is fine and the 2070 lets you have smooth sailing on those titles till your CPU/Mobo upgrade comes along in 2020. None of us have a crystal ball.

*The devil's advocate position is that GPUs tend to age faster than CPU technology does when it comes to gaming. Even with 8 core CPU consoles on the horizon, the Ryzen 3600 has the potential to hold down the fort longer than a 2070 non-Super would. At the end of the day, there are a lot of things in flux right now. If you have the discipline to hold on to your money, odds are good that kind of deal on a video card will come around again when Cyberpunk is out for sure and we have first-hand accounts on how these games run on a variety of gaming rigs. I wish I had a definitive answer for you but I don't when it comes to whether X hardware can handle Y software that isn't out yet.

Cyrano4747 posted:

Again, I'm indecisive and re-research poo poo right before I make a purchase. In my latest round of reading about poo poo while a bunch of crap sits in a checkout cart I found a bunch of stuff online talking about how you're wasting money using a newer GPU with an older CPU and got concerned.


You will never buy the "perfect" system. Just to reiterate the standard guidelines for spending money - only upgrade when there is something you are doing on your current rig that is unacceptable to you. Try not to upgrade unless you are at that point. If you are trying to take advantage of Black Friday/Cyber Monday, what is your max budget right now? Give us a firm dollar amount and see if we can assemble something that makes sense for you.

MikeC fucked around with this message at 02:03 on Dec 1, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

ItBreathes posted:

Black Friday is mostly good for picking up things like storage and cases, CPUs and GPUs don't tend to get significant deals unless they're clearing off shelves and BF is no exception. Given that the games you want to play aren't out yet and no one knows what specs they'll require I really advise you to just wait. You're not passing on any deals you'll regret. Maybe pick up a new storage drive, neither DOOM nor Cyberpunk are going to be small games.

It does happen to be a great time for a budget builder though. Ryzen 2600 and 2700s can be had for very cheap. Zen+ is no slouch.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

KYOON GRIFFEY JR posted:

I think that on AMD X570 boards that you still get all your SATA ports while using 2 M.2 drives. Agree it's a nonissue for almost everyone and if it was going to be an issue for you, you'd already know it.

I have seen cooling for M.2 drives, is it useful at all?

X570 chipsets have 4.0 lanes meaning they don't need to steal lanes from SATA.

Some M.2 heat spreaders apparently trap more heat than they disperse.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

dads friend steve posted:

Think I settled on this:

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 2700X 3.7 GHz 8-Core Processor ($227.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: ASRock B450M PRO4 Micro ATX AM4 Motherboard ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V Series 16 GB (2 x 8 GB) DDR4-3200 Memory ($59.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 1 TB 2.5" Solid State Drive ($109.97 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon RX 580 8 GB ARMOR OC Video Card ($144.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define Mini C MicroATX Mid Tower Case ($79.98 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair RMx (2018) 650 W 80+ Gold Certified Fully Modular ATX Power Supply ($114.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $797.90
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-12-03 17:42 EST-0500r

Microcenter has the CPU, board and SSD bundle for $300, which seems like a hell of a deal to me

Any glaring issues Iím missing? Also the case manufacturer says it comes with fans, so I wonít need to buy any separately, correct?

Uhh, you missed out on the Black Friday deals on the 2700X. So unless you need 8 cores, the 3600 is cheaper right now and is better in 95% of use cases.

edit: ack forgot about the BIOS issue. Do you have a way to flash the BIOS if it isn't up to date?

MikeC fucked around with this message at 23:45 on Dec 3, 2019

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

dads friend steve posted:

I do not, which is why Iíd rely on Microcenter to do it for me. But their site still shows the 2700x is cheaper than the 3600, and when bundled with the motherboard and SSD for $300 it seems like a solid deal. Now Iím not so sure

I kinda do want the extra cores for dev work (running docker containers and the like). Iím not spending a whole lot on a GPU either and Iím a-ok running games on lower setting if it means a couple hundred buck saved

Thanks for the input!

Its cool, I was just looking at the PC Partpicker price that was listed. The difference is marginal

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

frailimbnursry posted:

I posted to Tech Support because of the error I received but hoping I may get a quicker response regarding basic compatibility here.

If my current PC is as follows:

MB: MSI P67A-G43 (B3) (BIOS: 7673IMS.1I0)
CPU: Intel i5-2500K
RAM: Patriot Signature DDR3-1600 2x8GB
GPU: Nvidia GTX 970
PSU: Corsair TX650 Gold

I'm hoping to extend the life of the PC another couple of years. I'm only looking for 1080p/Ultra to my monitor and 1440p/Ultra/High to my TV via Gamestream/Moonlight (if possible) and the option of VR next year.

Can I simply change out the video card for an RTX 2070 Super? I bought the MSI Super Ventus OC during Black Friday but am having no luck getting the PC to boot.

Wondering if it's a bad card or the RTX series is incompatible. I thought PCI-E 3.0 was backwards compatible to PCI-E 2.0?

If incompatible, is there a single upgrade I can make or do I need to replace the CPU/motherboard?


You should be fine. I had an RX 5700XT in my 2500K earlier this year while I was waiting for the rest of the parts to come in. PCI-E slots are all backwards compatible. Are you sure the card is seated properly?

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

thats not candy posted:

With stock fan curve it really idles around 36c and ryzen master says all or most of the cores are sleeping. 50c is with the cpu fan set to 20% until it gets into the 60's. No matter what power profile I use makes the clock bounce around a lot, and I don't get why it needs to boost to 4400mhz when browsing

firmware/bios is a couple months out of date probably, I'll try updating everything

It is a normal clock boosting thing. I don't think PB2 cares at all what the task is. If a core is given instructions and there is thermal and voltage headroom, it will go ahead and apply the boost to get the job done ASAP. You can disable boosting period in BIOS but I don't think you can tell it what to boost on.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

Takkaryx posted:

My partner's laptop is finally giving up the ghost, and she wants to make the transition to a desktop. My desktop is a moderately powerful rig from about 6 years ago, with an upgraded card in the past 3 (i5 6600, 16gb ram ddr3, gtx 1080, etc). She wants to get back into some light gaming, and financially we're in a good place to splurge and build myself a rig from the ground up instead of the ship of theseus I currently have. I have not done any research on components in the the past 6 short of the gpu 3 years ago. I have completely missed the AMD resurgence or where they stand right now, so I feel like there's a huge amount of information I'm missing. I was hoping I could get some advice on where to start researching and partsing things out.

What country are you in? USA
What are you using the system for? Gaming, and light IT project work, but mostly gaming.
What's your budget? ~$1500, but that's flexible
If you're gaming, what is your monitor? Acer Predator XB271HU 27" WQHD IPS with gsync, so 1440p at 144hz, as well as an oculus rift

What I'm carrying over Nothing except the Samsung 1tb SSD, but I'll need to buy a replacement for the handmedown rig anyway

Things I want Because of gsync on the monitor I'd like to stay with an nvidia card, and I really like the look of raytracing, so I'm looking at geforce RTXs.

Also, I am incurably dumb and would love some controllable RGBs in the case, because everything old is new again and missed the clear panel LED trend of the late 2000's

Check OP, there is a link to my post. The system you want to tweak around is the Flex 1440p system. Parts in that post are current as of right now.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

WattsvilleBlues posted:

Is hyperthreading just used by games really? Curious if Office, Firefox etc. use it.

It will but you are unlikely to feel the difference in everyday computing. It is actually hard for hyperthreading to be used effectively from what I understand. You would have to hit up a software engineer if you want a detailed answer.


clockworkjoe posted:

I want to upgrade my video card before it dies - It's chugging on some games and I've been using it pretty heavily for the last 4 years.

We need your monitor specs. We cannot offer useful advice without this piece of information.

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

clockworkjoe posted:

I have 2 monitors:

ViewSonic VX2270SMH-LED 22" IPS 1080p Frameless LED Monitor HDMI, DVI, VGA

Dell s2209w

Assuming you game on one monitor, you are looking at a 1660 Super. The Ti and non-super are a bit more and a bit less in price and performance respectively. As of right now the 1660 Super is a good deal for 1080p at 60.

AMD options are lacking here. The RX 580 has been surpassed by the 1660S unless you ate getting it used at a discount. The RX 5500 is coming out soon if you want to wait for AMDs answer to the 1660 S

MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

clockworkjoe posted:

Yes, I game on 1 monitor. I assume any 1660 super will work for me?

Any reputable manufacturer is fine. I thought I read here that apparently Zotac has bad support though

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MikeC
Jul 19, 2004

ACTUALLY IS MIKE CERNOVICH. WAS TOO STUPID TO FIGURE OUT THAT THE TRUMP LOVER AVATAR WAS THE STUPID NEWBIE AVATAR

3200 RAM is fine. The performance drop off is usually non noticeable unless you are benchmarking and even then, it is game dependent.

Just check the RAM against the motherboard's QVL. I always recommend getting QVL RAM even if it costs 10 to 20 dollars more. Saving yourself a possible headache is worth the extra cost imo

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