Machetes!

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Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

Robert's remark about the Sacred Fence really struck me in this episode. As a foreigner, I was gripped by the Portland coverage on Twitter by Robert, Garrison and many others last summer, and the Sacred Fence meme was a big part of the comedic irony that kept the ongoing story of the police violence so surreal. I totally get how being the architect of that would feel both empowering and loving terrifying.

# ¿ Mar 10, 2021 13:14

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 23:33

Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

HashtagGirlboss posted:

I just got around to listening to the first episode on Rush Limbaugh and the whole thing is quite enjoyable but I want to focus on the two minutes that made me cringe and roll my eyes. For a while I've had a half-formed and vague sense that Robert Evans is primarily a conflict tourist. I think most people who are in his line of work are, so it doesn't really prevent me from enjoying his podcasts, but I think the exchange about the fence in Portland really hammered this home.

I listened to it several times to make sure I wasn't mischaracterizing the exchange. "I know that the way I framed it had a significant impact on a lot of people getting hurt, damaging a fence, getting arrested... it was both intoxicating and scared the hell out of me..."

HashtagGirlboss posted:

Maybe. And I haven't listened to the ten episode mini-series on the Portland protests yet, primarily because I live here and it's all still too close and raw to want to relive it, so I don't know if this kind of self-importance permeates that or not, and I hope it doesn't

It's one thing to be part of the story, and like I said I don't even necessarily hold thrill seeker against him because that's the kind of people who get drawn into this kind of work, but especially the reframing of events like his coverage had influence on how people acting in defense of their home acted seemed condescending and pretentious. It kind of seemed like he took away a lesson of his own power, rather than an observation of people demonstrating against injustice. I do feel quite confident saying that if Robert hadn't been there the fence would still have been a focal point because of what it represented and the response it garnered. And maybe he was the one who coined "sacred fence" but if that hadn't taken off, a similar name would have been given to it

I can't speak for those on the ground, but discourse referring to it as "the sacred fence" on Twitter appears to start on June 3rd, 2020. Robert retweets a fun creation myth by @45thAbsurdist, and Robert's twitter followers are all over it. Discussion and description of the fence this way balloons from here into the weekend of June 5-7th. A lot of the people producing coverage of the protests in Portland either knew each other previously or got to know each other at the time (Robert's blossoming friendship with Garrison Davis is plenty evidence of that), so the idea that they'd latch onto it collectively and start perpetuating it from him (Garrison is using the phrase by the 8th) is entirely plausible.

There's a LOT of jokes from that time about touching the sacred fence. Were some of them directly influenced by his coverage or a proliferation of the meme thanks to him? Very probably. By association, does that mean that some people were subjected to police violence or arrested as a result of this dumb meme? Also very possible. I don't think it's wrong of Robert to recognise this.

# ¿ Mar 14, 2021 21:20

Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

HashtagGirlboss posted:

I don't deny that you were present and highly visible, nor do I deny that it caused you great pain and injury, nor do I doubt your commitment to being out there. I hope that wasn't what you took away.

But I do think that the lesson that you took from your conversations was the wrong lesson, in that you inserted yourself into people's motivations and determined that their actions and courage and defiance was influenced by you and how you presented events. All of these people have agency independent of you, and even if they directly finger you as the motivating factor in their decision making, I think most of those same people would have been drawn out regardless of whether you had been here to stream. I do think you were visibly prominent and so people associated your face and voice with the events that spurred them to action, but I disagree that you rather than the events were the draw, despite the fact that your coverage may offer a tangible thing to point at if questioned. I think it's really dangerous for people who achieve prominence to take at face value people who say they're inspired by them.

It's honestly becoming less clear over time what you believe he's trying to take credit for here, because at this point it reads like you think he's claiming credit for the protests in general. You're attributing an awful lot to very little.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2021 15:30

Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

Pinky Artichoke posted:

The thing is, though, there is a cult of personality type thing that develops around popular podcast personalities like Robert. Where an overly involved Opening Arguments fan may just call P. Andrew Torres and try to sign up for legal services he does not in fact need (and then write a cringey trip report about it on the internet), it's entirely possible that a Robert fan might be inspired to do something dumb at a protest. I think it's good for him to be mindful of that possibility.

It's of particular risk when you're as internet poisoned as Robert is. His attitudes remind me a lot of me when I'm shitposting, except he'll say these things while he's literally standing in teargas . Recognising your fanbase (who have definitely been inspired to buy machetes) might take your poo poo seriously when you're doing dark jokes as a coping mechanism is very healthy and grown up.

I don't exclude myself from this -- my fiance bought me a set of boltcutters for my birthday as a joke.

# ¿ Mar 16, 2021 18:53

Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

Having foreigners mispronounce everything is charming! There's some fun place names near me that are basically impossible to pronounce without prior knowledge because they used a letter that no longer exists in the English language.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yogh

# ¿ Apr 2, 2021 14:26

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# ¿ Apr 24, 2024 23:33

Wilekat: Sep 24, 2007

Bust Rodd posted:

the left, especially among Biden-style progressives

I'm not funny enough to describe how funny this is.

# ¿ Apr 24, 2021 03:42

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