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Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012



Z the IVth posted:

Just watched it and thought it was amazing. Went in expecting a bog standard whodunnit having not seen any trailers and got a nice piece of social commentary instead.

Minor observation: How little the entire family gives a poo poo about Marta is evidenced by how none of them manage to figure out where she's from - she's labelled as coming from Ecuador, Paraguay and Brazil by different people. All it matters is she's Latino ergo she must be from somewhere down there.

Or "I thought you should be at the funeral but I was out-voted."

There's also that nice little detail of Linda's husband casually handing the plate he's finished with to Marta, who is not a maid or housekeeper.

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Nerdietalk
Dec 23, 2014



Jonas Albrecht posted:

Or "I thought you should be at the funeral but I was out-voted."

The way that gag slowly pays out to make sure you realize no way anyone wanted her there was so choice.

TwoPair
Mar 28, 2010

Pandamn It Feels Good To Be A Gangsta


Grimey Drawer

nerdman42 posted:

The way that gag slowly pays out to make sure you realize no way anyone wanted her there was so choice.

Holy poo poo I don't know how I missed that but that's great

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



I love how the It kid was perfect as the alt right Nazi Rich boy. Hes gonna have to patreon grift and then when that gets shut down hell post a free speech gofundme on his groyper Twitter

Alan Smithee
Jan 3, 2005



CaptainPsyko posted:

By the way, if people liked this movie - and in particular liked the fact that it plays very heavily with genre tropes right down to overwhelmingly affected dialogue that somehow manages to work - but are unfamiliar with Rian Johnson other than hes the man that ruined my Star War / saved my Star War and maybe a few Breaking Bad episodes, let this post be the one that tells you to go watch Brick right now its on Netflix and stop reading this post go watch Brick.


It does with classic Noir (think Maltese Falcon), a lot of what this film does with whodunnits, except, transplanted into a weird high school where Joseph Gordon Levitt talks like Humphrey Bogart and it works for some reason.

Its really really great.

Im not gonna lie I tried watching brick years ago and stopped because it didnt really grab me. I must have thought it was slower than what noir should actually be

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012



We saw it a second time today, and missed Joseph Gordon-Levitt's cameo again. When is it?

CaptainPsyko
May 2, 2004

We're Gonna Run.

We're Gonna Crawl.

Kick Down Every Wall.


Jonas Albrecht posted:

We saw it a second time today, and missed Joseph Gordon-Levitt's cameo again. When is it?

Hes the TV Cop in the show Martas sister is watching right at the beginning.

DarklyDreaming
Apr 4, 2009

Welcome to Disney XD Everyone!

Jonas Albrecht posted:

We saw it a second time today, and missed Joseph Gordon-Levitt's cameo again. When is it?

He was the murderer in the podcast Marta's sister was listening to in the opening

EDIT: That'll teach me to refresh next time

Lord Hydronium
Sep 25, 2007

Non, je ne regrette rien




I've loved everything Rian Johnson has done (except The Brothers Bloom, which I haven't seen) and this was no exception. I didn't really know anything going in other than "whodunnit by Rian Johnson", so everything else came as a pleasant surprise; great performances, good twists, and nicely done political/social commentary (it still feels weird to have movies explicitly set in the Trump era).

Jonas Albrecht posted:

There's also that nice little detail of Linda's husband casually handing the plate he's finished with to Marta, who is not a maid or housekeeper.
Apparently this was an ad lib by Don Johnson.

Harrow
Jun 30, 2012


I noticed that little touch, that's a really effective ad lib by him. Just the perfect little extra dash of loathsomeness.

TheBigBudgetSequel
Nov 25, 2008

It's not who I am underneath, but what I do that defines me.


I know a lot of people like Don Johnson's character and when he handed the plate to her, I cringed. Perfect.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

It's a stellar moment of cinema. It is the essence of "show, don't tell". Sublime .

al-azad
May 28, 2009





Z the IVth posted:

Just watched it and thought it was amazing. Went in expecting a bog standard whodunnit having not seen any trailers and got a nice piece of social commentary instead.

Minor observation: How little the entire family gives a poo poo about Marta is evidenced by how none of them manage to figure out where she's from - she's labelled as coming from Ecuador, Paraguay and Brazil by different people. All it matters is she's Latino ergo she must be from somewhere down there.

There's a lot of great camera work and body language that shows nobody really sees Marta until the very moment the will is read and everyone turns to look directly at her. In everyone's flashbacks Marta is always on the periphery or the background. And I love the little jokes like "You should've been invited to the funeral but I was outvoted" and "hey kiddo" *weak rear end hug* "hey kiddo" *stares daggers at phone. She's also the only one framed in the center of that knife display during her confessional, everyone else sits off to the right.

Sankara
Jul 18, 2008




I really really really enjoyed this film. My only problem with it, and it's a minor one, is Riki Lindhome's character was pointless. She has, what, one line? Two? Bit strange. Makes me wonder if she was heavily edited out of the film or something.

As a big mystery novel fan, the scene where Ransom is accosted by the dogs instantly made me think he did it. I didn't know how he did it, of course, but it was him. That's the kind of seemingly innocuous detail that always ends up being important during the reveal! Then, later on, when the detective made the comment "Dogs are a good judge of character" that sealed the deal for me. Felt satisfying to know I was right!

Friend
Aug 3, 2008



Doctor Reynolds posted:

the scene where Ransom is accosted by the dogs instantly made me think he did it. I didn't know how he did it, of course, but it was him. That's the kind of seemingly innocuous detail that always ends up being important during the reveal! Then, later on, when the detective made the comment "Dogs are a good judge of character" that sealed the deal for me. Felt satisfying to know I was right!

Same, but with the blank letter. It almost looked like there were invisible letters for a second when it hit the light, and then when Jamie Lee Curtis showed her other letters I knew those weren't just smudges of age and ink! Kinda expected it to have a bit more to it though, other than just "hey your marriage is ruined now."

That was something we were discussing after the movie: everyone seems to lose financially but keeps their immediate family, but the favorite(?) daughter still has her business though is left with a cheating husband and a murdering son.

AccountSupervisor
Aug 3, 2004

I am greatful for my loop pedal

I kind of loved that this didnt really go too overboard with some convulted and overly complicated reveal.

It was just clever enough and I like that the movie was much more interested in making a point with the mystery instead of trying to blow the audiences mind with some dumb left field reveal and nonsensical plot.

It was almost perfectly obvious once things started to piece together and yet when the first reveal happens you become much more invested in Martas story and plight then figuring anything out.

Great loving movie. Love everything Johnson does, warts and all

DuhSal
Aug 16, 2004

I will, brother. I promise.





Pillbug

don't have much to add that hasn't been said other than I loved it. one of my favourite movies of the year and maybe even one of my favourite movies ever (have to re-watch to make that call ultimately). the acting was amazing through the entire cast, the dialogue was funny and well written, the story and mystery made sense and the direction had some really nice framing. I also liked what it had to say politically and it's overall message about how/why marta ultimately "won" but it didn't get too overboard with it, just made it's point succinctly and ended strongly. just a masterfully satisfying piece of work.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012



I was trying to figure out the significance of the journey the baseball goes on, and it's clever. Richard throws the baseball out the window after finding the seemingly blank letter. Eventually, it winds up in Linda's hands, who goes to put it back in her father's study. Richard's impulsive act leads his wife right to the damning evidence.

DuhSal
Aug 16, 2004

I will, brother. I promise.





Pillbug

Jonas Albrecht posted:

I was trying to figure out the significance of the journey the baseball goes on, and it's clever. Richard throws the baseball out the window after finding the seemingly blank letter. Eventually, it winds up in Linda's hands, who goes to put it back in her father's study. Richard's impulsive act leads his wife right to the damning evidence.

that's a nice detail.

after being thrown from the house, the detective finds it and then tosses it for the dog and I think linda gets it from the dog if I remember right.

Timeless Appeal
May 28, 2006


AccountSupervisor posted:

I kind of loved that this didnt really go too overboard with some convulted and overly complicated reveal.
The beauty of the movie is that the whole scene where you see Marta "screw up" is just a massive piece of misdirection, but not a red herring. The motive and means of the murder are all really basic, but the movie does an amazing job of redirecting your attention. It's a really well-done magic trick.

PASS THE MASH
Oct 30, 2013




Friend posted:

Same, but with the blank letter. It almost looked like there were invisible letters for a second when it hit the light, and then when Jamie Lee Curtis showed her other letters I knew those weren't just smudges of age and ink! Kinda expected it to have a bit more to it though, other than just "hey your marriage is ruined now."

That was something we were discussing after the movie: everyone seems to lose financially but keeps their immediate family, but the favorite(?) daughter still has her business though is left with a cheating husband and a murdering son.


If Im reading Harlan right, he had no problem helping his family if they dont cheat him or become reliant on him. Linda was born on third base but still made it to homeplate yknow?

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


I think the idea re: Harlan's attitude is he used to buy the "self made success" bullshit all the rest of his family espouses, but after years of interacting with Marta, who is smarter than any of his family, extremely skilled at her trade, and quick witted enough to completely school him in his favorite hobbies, but could only rise to the level of being a RN making less than $20 an hour due to the genuine hurdles life threw in her way, he realized that he was severely hurting his family by supporting them constantly while letting them believe that the luxury and prosperity was something they worked for, and not something they were handed. Linda is genuinely the only one of his children that isn't dependent on him, which is why he didn't put her through the wringer like everyone else.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

PASS THE MASH posted:

If Im reading Harlan right, he had no problem helping his family if they dont cheat him or become reliant on him. Linda was born on third base but still made it to homeplate yknow?

I get the sense she was his favorite. Not enough for him to keep her in the will, but she'd done well enough anyway.

She also seems to be the one least concerned about the money per se, but that it's her father's "stuff". She's still concerned about the money obviously but not quite the same as Walt or what's her face, Tomi's character.

I don't know if it was Jamie Lee Curtis just selling the gently caress out of it or a lot of cleverness in the script, but she seems weirdly well-realized relative to her actual screentime. She's also the only one smart enough that I don't think Blanc gets anything useful from her.

Pick fucked around with this message at 05:26 on Dec 3, 2019

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste



re: Harlan I think his primary motivation wasn't to make sure that Marta got the money but to make sure that his family didn't. None of the rich people in the family did things for noble reasons and Harlan was no exception IMO. He was spiteful enough to kill himself to make sure they didn't get it, and he succeeded at that! As Blanc points out, if he had listened to her he wouldn't have died. He was no better than the rest.

re: Linda I figured the invisible ink thing out as soon as I saw the letter was blank because Linda had gone on about her Dad playing "games" and having to play along to communicate with him. They showed her reading a bunch of identically marked letters with brown ink later too. I actually cracked up really hard at the husband winding up to throw that baseball through window and then it just plopping onto the grass outside because it was open. Great little visual gag.

re: The dogs I also about died when the dog came back with the lattice plank after Marta tossed it and handing it Blanc directly. But the dogs were the big clue there was more going on during the whole movie since we knew the dogs barked (Meg heard them) but Marta wasn't why they barked because the dogs liked and knew Marta. Ransom was the only character we see the dogs bark at during the rest of the movie. That was really the only loose end that didn't fit for the majority of the middle of the movie and I had to wait all the way until the end for the payoff on it.

GreyjoyBastard
Mar 28, 2010


I've made a huge mistake.



CaptainPsyko posted:

Its just a Quirky Massachussets Thing; State Police have jurisdiction over homicide cases everywhere except for Boston basically.

Huh. Points to the movie for that then.

Hunt11
Jul 24, 2013



Grimey Drawer

I saw this over the weekend and I loved it. It did a great job of messing with my expectations and the conclusion felt like a great job at capping off everything that the movie was about.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012

SO EMBARRASSING



The political messaging of this movie was awful. It felt like Rian Johnson watched Get Out and wished that he could make that movie, and that influenced the script here. However, since Johnson has no concept of how white racists are perceived by minorities he isn't capable of producing an honest, revealing script like Get Out had and instead relies on hacky cultural signifiers don't reveal anything beyond the fact that Johnson was clever enough to observe them.

What's worse is Johnson's need to absolve white people for being racists. Imagine if in Get Out Daniel Kaluuya's character had a nice white friend to give him advice about how to deal with the mean racists, or if there was a member of the family that felt bad about lobotomizing black people, but Kaluuya gave that person a big 'ol hug at the end of the movie to fix everything. It would be loving insulting, and that's how I felt watching this movie. It's because Rian Johnson is like every "white guilt" liberal, who wants to feel the alleviation of guilt without having to actually feel guilty. As long as there are worse racists out there, Johnson believes, fallible white people can be forgiven for their mistakes without doing anything to deserve it. Johnson wanted to create a good follow-up to Get Out, but instead he made the movie from Bradley Whitford's character's point of view.

The mystery itself was good, but the problem is that it does what a lot of scripts do nowadays and heavily foreshadow every single twist. Plummer's character literally explains the main twist of the movie in exacting detail. How could anybody not see the ending of the movie coming?

Arist
Feb 13, 2012

who, me?



Oven Wrangler

pospysyl posted:

The political messaging of this movie was awful. It felt like Rian Johnson watched Get Out and wished that he could make that movie, and that influenced the script here. However, since Johnson has no concept of how white racists are perceived by minorities he isn't capable of producing an honest, revealing script like Get Out had and instead relies on hacky cultural signifiers don't reveal anything beyond the fact that Johnson was clever enough to observe them.

What's worse is Johnson's need to absolve white people for being racists. Imagine if in Get Out Daniel Kaluuya's character had a nice white friend to give him advice about how to deal with the mean racists, or if there was a member of the family that felt bad about lobotomizing black people, but Kaluuya gave that person a big 'ol hug at the end of the movie to fix everything. It would be loving insulting, and that's how I felt watching this movie. It's because Rian Johnson is like every "white guilt" liberal, who wants to feel the alleviation of guilt without having to actually feel guilty. As long as there are worse racists out there, Johnson believes, fallible white people can be forgiven for their mistakes without doing anything to deserve it. Johnson wanted to create a good follow-up to Get Out, but instead he made the movie from Bradley Whitford's character's point of view.

The mystery itself was good, but the problem is that it does what a lot of scripts do nowadays and heavily foreshadow every single twist. Plummer's character literally explains the main twist of the movie in exacting detail. How could anybody not see the ending of the movie coming?

Did we watch the same movie? Who do you think the protagonist is, because it's not Blanc and it's certainly not Meg.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012

SO EMBARRASSING



Obviously I know Marta's the protagonist. My point is that the script has her forgive Meg, who conspired to report Marta's mom to ICE so that she could get tuition money, and Blanc is there to have a nice white person in the movie. Like, Blanc could have been played by Lakeith Stanfield and their roles could have been consolidated, but there is a very specific reason why that is not the case.

Babysitter Super Sleuth
Apr 26, 2012

THERE'S FASCISM IN MY GIANT ROBOT ANIMES


I'm pretty sure Marta doesn't forgive Meg, she's just not going to cut her off from finishing her education in retribution, because Marta is a fundamentally kind person.

Pick
Jul 19, 2009



Nap Ghost

The entire ending is the point that now she decides and it's deliberately ambiguous what that will mean.

pospysyl
Nov 10, 2012

SO EMBARRASSING



Babysitter Super Sleuth posted:

I'm pretty sure Marta doesn't forgive Meg, she's just not going to cut her off from finishing her education in retribution, because Marta is a fundamentally kind person.

She gives Meg a big hug and says, "It's okay." She may not give Meg her tuition money, but Meg doesn't actually have a claim to it.

theblackw0lf
Apr 14, 2003

"...creating a vision of the sort of society you want to have in miniature"

pospysyl posted:

She gives Meg a big hug and says, "It's okay." She may not give Meg her tuition money, but Meg doesn't actually have a claim to it.

Marta saying "gently caress you" to Meg wouldn't really fit with her character. Plus at this time she had tremendous guilt because she believed she killed her grandad.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



pospysyl posted:

She gives Meg a big hug and says, "It's okay." She may not give Meg her tuition money, but Meg doesn't actually have a claim to it.

The point that this happens isn't at the end of the movie though, which makes a huge difference. It's admittedly been a few days since I saw it but it was definitely before Blanc's big reveal and IIRC (and please correct me if I am wrong) it is after Marta has resolved to tell the family the truth -- which means that Marta is hoping that Meg turns around and forgives her for accidentally killing her grandfather. Even if it is before that point, it would be during a point where Marta is frantically trying to cover her tracks to save her mother from deportation, so being rude to a racist is probably not in her best interest (and it's definitely not the movie saying "this is Marta genuinely forgiving her, that's the message we want you to take away from this")

After the reveal Marta comes outside and silently judges the entire family with her "My house, my rules" mug

Guy A. Person fucked around with this message at 21:34 on Dec 3, 2019

Friend
Aug 3, 2008



yeah what on earth are you talking about, the whole point is that she isn't a jerk. She was willing to be accused of murdering two people to save the poisoned lady who was "accusing" her as she was dying. The movie had racists in it, but it wasn't a movie about racism, it was about entitled shitheads protecting their wealth. Am I forgetting a scene where Meg was even racist?

That said though, it did seem weird that the one person who didn't really have any direct repercussions that I could tell was the nazi kid.

Jonas Albrecht
Jun 7, 2012



I think the most important conversation regarding the future of the Thrombys is when Marta says "This Family! I should help them, right?" to which Blanc replies "Well I have my own opinion, but I think you're gonna follow your heart." I think that clearly tells us that Marta, after all that she's been put through by them, is going to help the Thrombys, and will not be cowed by them.

Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



Friend posted:

Am I forgetting a scene where Meg was even racist?[/spoiler]

Meg tells her family about Marta's mother's immigration status to give them leverage over her, because Meg is afraid of losing her access to the education her grandfather's wealth has provided. I think it's beside the point to argue whether this is more "racist" or "classist" or whatever, it's definitely a scummy move and it's Meg protecting her wealth/privilege.

CelticPredator
Oct 11, 2013



The last shot of the movie with the coffee cup pretty much tells me exactly what Marta is gonna do with the money. My house. My rules.

Also I love how the first-ish shot of the movie is the last shot.

mistaya
Oct 18, 2006

Cat of Wealth and Taste



Blanc has to be there as the outside detective or the movie doesn't work. You could say that they could have had the actors switch roles but someone had to play the cop and someone had to play the detective. Ransom hiring the detective anonymously was kind of an important plot point.

Also if you haven't been in a situation where you had to awkwardly hug someone, I can tell you that Marta's body language made it pretty clear to me that things were forced as gently caress. And Meg is right out there with the rest of them at the end. I do not think Marta has forgiven her. "It's okay" isn't "everything is forgiven" it's just filler words to get that person to stop touching you. Meg is overhuggy throughout the movie, as if being willing to hug Marta means they're friends. But they're not, and you realize they never were, just that Meg is performative about treating her like a person. Like how she assumed Marta needed some weed and raided 'the stash.' It's early enough this goes under the radar but do you guys think Marta smokes? Or is it more likely that Meg was using Marta's pain as a cover to justify stealing the joint for herself? Meg isn't a racist, but she is just as selfish and self-absorbed as the rest of them.

Like if Marta HAD forgiven Meg I'd agree that's a poo poo message but I really didn't think she did.

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Guy A. Person
May 23, 2003



mistaya posted:

Like if Marta HAD forgiven Meg I'd agree that's a poo poo message but I really didn't think she did.

For a comparison, I would point to the scene earlier in the movie where Marta is brought in as a prop to Don Johnson's racist ranting. It would have been totally justified for Marta to go off on him, but her meek silence clearly isn't an endorsement of his views and it would be absurd to suggest they were.

At the point in the movie where Marta offers her "forgiveness" it's still effectively coerced.

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