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Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Sandwolf posted:

“Sandwolf didn’t grasp relatively complex mechanics to try and create a distraction”

Its not complex at all dude

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Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

Its really not hard.

The day didnt continue after my death as per my role because i was the second lynch (kill?). This was confirmed by mod.

yes thank you I grasp this, great. I don’t understand how it seems to have affected your role “triggering,” per se?

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

Its not complex at all dude

compared to my role it sure fuckin’ is

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay
.......

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

Hello if my deathproof is expended by majority vote i become vanilla town and day continues onto deadline.

Tommu posted:

If my deathproof 1 shot gets used any other way i become scumbo

I’m sorry but these posts seem to imply that this has not triggered yet, otherwise why not just tell us you’re vanilla town and not overly complicate this poo poo?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


basically just ignore the whole thing

Tommu getting hammered and that ending the day is already the natural order of things

the only reason there was any confusion about it was because Tommu himself came out to say his role should've given us another free post-lunch extension

he likely didn't know about the special mod fiat "only two hammers per day" rule any more than we did, and just put everything about his role out there in good faith without thinking through how that would make him look like a liar. Dancer pounced on the contradiction that was there, and the mod cleared up this game rule that apparently overrides abilities like ASF's.

tl;dr:
basically just ignore the whole thing

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Tommu posted:

Hello if my deathproof is expended by majority vote i become vanilla town and day continues onto deadline.


Sandwolf posted:

how has this scenario not come to pass then?



Mr. Steak posted:

mod-clarification on qualities of the extra lunch.

regardless of any player's abilities, the day ends immediately after the 2nd hammer

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu please stop doing that I get I’m loving dumb but that’s not as clear as you think it is

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Bifauxnen posted:

basically just ignore the whole thing

Tommu getting hammered and that ending the day is already the natural order of things

the only reason there was any confusion about it was because Tommu himself came out to say his role should've given us another free post-lunch extension

he likely didn't know about the special mod fiat "only two hammers per day" rule any more than we did, and just put everything about his role out there in good faith without thinking through how that would make him look like a liar. Dancer pounced on the contradiction that was there, and the mod cleared up this game rule that apparently overrides abilities like ASF's.

tl;dr:
basically just ignore the whole thing

Thank u bif

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


The scenario I’m referring to is you becoming town/scum. Why are you avoiding this part of the question.

Mr. Steak
May 9, 2013

by Jeffrey of YOSPOS
i really didn't intend for this to be so confusing. the reason for my clarification was i don't want a potential mod-error to blatantly contradict a person's claim. a lie should be contradicted by real things, not meta things, and the truth shouldnt be turned into a lie by a mod-error.

the wording of the clarification was vague so that im not giving any more info than i have to.

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Sandwolf posted:

how has this scenario not come to pass then?

See Bif I want to agree with you but, as Tommu points out, this thing right here is genuinely at least slightly odd (and suss).

Like, it's not inherently scummy for Sandwolf to not get how it works, but in order for him to ask that question, my interpretation is that he kinda did have to get how it works.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


ok well hopefully the day continuing thing is dead and buried now, I guess Sandwolf is still concerned about the other part of the claim, the alignment changing part of the claim.

I don't get what's so confusing about it though, you either just think Tommu's full of poo poo or you don't

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Dancer posted:

See Bif I want to agree with you but, as Tommu points out, this thing right here is genuinely at least slightly odd (and suss).

Like, it's not inherently scummy for Sandwolf to not get how it works, but in order for him to ask that question, my interpretation is that he kinda did have to get how it works.

WHAT? He detailed a scenario that I was aware occurred earlier in the game? What the gently caress, I was simply asking why he hasn’t become scum/vanilla town if I know he got hammered earlier, which should have expended his deathproof, no?

This is totally separate from the 2x hammers a day

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Bifauxnen posted:

ok well hopefully the day continuing thing is dead and buried now, I guess Sandwolf is still concerned about the other part of the claim, the alignment changing part of the claim.

I don't get what's so confusing about it though, you either just think Tommu's full of poo poo or you don't

I think he’s full of poo poo because he’s dodging what his alignment is but I’m afraid to loving say anything because you will use it to nail me to the wall

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Sandwolf posted:

WHAT? He detailed a scenario that I was aware occurred earlier in the game? What the gently caress, I was simply asking why he hasn’t become scum/vanilla town if I know he got hammered earlier, which should have expended his deathproof, no?

This is totally separate from the 2x hammers a day

Under what presumption are you presuming i havnt

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

Under what presumption are you presuming i havnt

Because of loving statements like this, yo

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Tommu posted:

Hello if my deathproof is expended by majority vote i become vanilla town and day continues onto deadline.

Ah yes ive dodged giving my alignment

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Sandwolf posted:

WHAT? He detailed a scenario that I was aware occurred earlier in the game? What the gently caress, I was simply asking why he hasn’t become scum/vanilla town if I know he got hammered earlier, which should have expended his deathproof, no?

This is totally separate from the 2x hammers a day

So is your confusion simply a result of the tense used? As in, if this post:

Tommu posted:

Hello if my deathproof is expended by majority vote i become vanilla town and day continues onto deadline.

had instead said

Tommu posted:

Hello when my deathproof was expended by majority vote i became vanilla town and the day shuold've continued onto deadline.
you would've been fine?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


assuming for the sake of argument that Tommu has told the truth, the scenario did come to pass, and he is and has been vanilla town since.

When claiming his role however, and describing how it functioned as given to him, it would still read:

"IF you get lunched, you turn town. IF you get killed some other way you turn scum"

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


yeah what Dancer said

Dancer
May 23, 2011
You know, it is slightly suss that Tommu didn't immediately notice this, now I think of it.

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay
Holy gently caress just kill me this is the worst series of posts ive ever had to deal with

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Dancer posted:

So is your confusion simply a result of the tense used? As in, if this post:


had instead said

you would've been fine?

Yes. The tense implied that it had yet to trigger. He still hasn’t admitted it has triggered, and is being cagey about it.

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Tommu posted:

Holy gently caress just kill me this is the worst series of posts ive ever had to deal with

ugh don't give him wiggle room just spell it out for him and say you're town stupid

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Sandwolf posted:

Yes. The tense implied that it had yet to trigger. He still hasn’t admitted it has triggered, and is being cagey about it.

????????????????????????????,?

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

Ah yes ive dodged giving my alignment

Uhh that doesn’t say “I became” why are you so insistent on NOT saying those words?

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


Sandwolf posted:

Yes. The tense implied that it had yet to trigger. He still hasn’t admitted it has triggered, and is being cagey about it.

ironically this is what makes me less suss of Tommu cause the only reasons to be suspicious are things entirely of his own making

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Bifauxnen posted:

ugh don't give him wiggle room just spell it out for him and say you're town stupid

I am vanilla town now as a result of being lynched by town.


Lie detect this idgaf

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

I am vanilla town now as a result of being lynched by town.


Lie detect this idgaf

Jesus Christ was that so difficult, why even put in the put about cheeky-challenging the lie detector.

Look, guys, I’m so sorry I didn’t understand that, but it really didn’t feel as clear to me as you were all making it seem.

Dancer
May 23, 2011

Tommu posted:

I am vanilla town now as a result of being lynched by town.


Lie detect this idgaf

Please don't, this will fail.

If you want to lie detect Tommu, there was an excellent post earlier imo :v: .

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


ok I'm clocking in now figure this out yourselves

Tommu
Aug 4, 2019

O vanity of Sleep, Hope, Dream, endless Desire,
The Horses of Disaster plunge in the heavy clay

Sandwolf posted:

Jesus Christ was that so difficult, why even put in the put about cheeky-challenging the lie detector.

Look, guys, I’m so sorry I didn’t understand that, but it really didn’t feel as clear to me as you were all making it seem.

Stop posting

Sandwolf
Jan 23, 2007

i'll be harpo


Tommu posted:

Stop posting

Why are you so personally angry at me? I didn’t understand a thing, calm down

Dancer
May 23, 2011
##vote IS

Bifauxnen
Aug 12, 2010

Curses! Foiled again!


I'd still vote Sandwolf first probably, just waiting for IS to claim to see if anything wacky happens

hope Ghost Friend is still keeping a cool head and not getting tempted to jump the gun here, doin a great job buddy

oh you know what else might be a nice idea, MegaZeroX? If we do gently caress things up and get down to definite MYLO/LYLO and you've already used up your lie detect by then... could you use your ghost vote before anyone even casts one, to put someone at negative one votes? That might be a nice thing to do for whoever you think is the towniest, help avoid the risk of someone getting stupid and getting em scumhammered. You can move and remove it throughout the day if you change your mind even.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

I’ve skimmed to catch up to this point durning the 15-minute break I’ve allowed myself from work before I go back to hopefully finish up in the next hour or so. I’m going to have to go back again after that because it looks like I missed a whole bunch of arguing over mod clarification that I don’t understand at first glance in context.

Will be back as soon as I’m done with work to cover in detail the stuff I’ve missed. If there’s something in specific someone wants me to reply to/cover/weigh in on, please point it out and I’ll grab it.

Thanks all.

Dancer
May 23, 2011

IllegallySober posted:

I’ve skimmed to catch up to this point durning the 15-minute break I’ve allowed myself from work before I go back to hopefully finish up in the next hour or so. I’m going to have to go back again after that because it looks like I missed a whole bunch of arguing over mod clarification that I don’t understand at first glance in context.

Will be back as soon as I’m done with work to cover in detail the stuff I’ve missed. If there’s something in specific someone wants me to reply to/cover/weigh in on, please point it out and I’ll grab it.

Thanks all.

Hi what's your role tia.

Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

Okay, I’m reading a little more closely now and I’m not sure I like either of these claims.

Anomalous Amalgam posted:

I'll right we're def at a mylo situation I feel.

I'm full-claiming.

I'm town grave digger.

I inherit the scum roles. I was hoping they would be more useful to town, but that's not the case.

I first inherited the salty ability, hence my confusion about it being still active after Hum died, and then I got the blood thirsty from ASF when he died.

We should all full claim and divulge any actions taken(if any).

I have no night actions and was positively blocked by lump lord on N1 or N2, don't remember the phrasing from his role flip.

Outside of that I've got nothing and don't know who scum is.,

So you’re essentially a scum backup that’s not actually scum- you just get scum powers once they flip?

If this is true, this should already be verified, unless no one put enough votes on you to trigger the Salty thing between what, mid-D2 through the end of D3 when ASF was dunked? I’m skimming right now to see if that’s true.

Fake edit: okay, it actually doesn’t look like anyone voted AA at all during that time, so there’s no verification of it. Hmmmmm.

I do think the posts between Bif and you from D2 are a point in your favor but that’s also countered in my brain by both the idea of a backup for scum powers that’s actually town as well as your eagerness to test your claim by suggesting we hurry up and dunk someone to show we can do it again.

Tommu posted:

Hello if my deathproof is expended by majority vote i become vanilla town and day continues onto deadline.

Tommu posted:

If my deathproof 1 shot gets used any other way i become scumbo

And then there’s this. I’m still considering what the mod clarification piece means for your claim, but if I’m remembering correctly the last person to claim alignment fuckery was Mega and that wound up being complete BS, so my suspicion is that you aren’t telling the truth about some part of your role. I just haven’t figured out what it is yet. (In fairness, I’m also pretty brain dead right now).

Dancer posted:

Hi what's your role tia.

I’m going to hold off on this for now because I don’t think it’s in town’s benefit for me to claim at this stage. I will likely claim later this game day.

What I will say is that it’s a very good idea for us to be slow and deliberate with votes at this stage. It’s also worth considering if ghost friend needs to chime in today and if so, in what form. It seems to me that today is a good day to use one of the two actions, but I’m willing to be talked out of that opinion.

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Referee
Aug 25, 2004

"Winning is great, sure, but if you are really going to do something in life, the secret is learning how to lose. Nobody goes undefeated all the time. If you can pick up after a crushing defeat, and go on to win again, you are going to be a champion someday."
(Wilma Rudolph)

And yes, I’m self-aware enough to realize that me throwing shade on both claims today while refusing to claim myself right now isn’t a great look, but this is part of the reason I want more discussion and not just a quick decision.

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